And the aeon sigh; What if all alignments in pathfinder were flipped?

[Xuldarinar]

Reduxist wrote:

andygal wrote:

I feel like Cayden would become the god of alcoholism-leading to a cycle of poverty and misery. Or something. Maybe the god of violet drunks.

So a god of status quo? Head honcho of Lawful Stupid? "I must drink because it is the law: MY LAW." I feel like he'd be the illegitimate "father" of a lot of murderhobos...

Also regarding the Demon Lords, how would that work? Like Shax beicomng a cape like Superman or Batman-but-with-storks? How about Jubilex becoming an ultra-tidy god of sanitation systems? Ooh, Jezelda becomes a meteorologist and a proponent of responsible spaying and neutering of pets? ** spoiler omitted **

Also also, what about the harbingers? I get that the daemons in normal form are the worst kind of nihilists, but I'm homing that in their flipped form, they become less like stereotypes and more like... well, this. 80's attire and all.

For Nocticula

Spoiler:

I would consider post. LN goddess of courtly love and shadow?

For the Daemonic Harbingers, I imagine the consuming souls element could linger. They would make great patrons for anyone who doesn't want a permanent existence, and it be viewed as becoming one with one's deity. Some might be fun to paint in a good light. Others, folca included, might be tough.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

So would such a world be named or akin to 'Injustice: Gods among Us'?

Let's see.

There would also be some weirdness with the drow, giants, and giant gods, as they went all flippy-floppy.

Flesh-crafting to repair damage to folks, rather than disfiguring artwork?

Giants who feel it's their responsibility to watch out for the 'little people'?

Mummies that are ethical guardians of ancient history now, versus murderous dead spirits trapped in bodies?

Liches that feel an obligation to extend everyone's life and the quality of it?

Thinking back on Norgorber, suddenly have this whole 'Michael Weston' vibe going on, where he gives monologues in the faithful's minds "When you're a spy..."

[andygal]

ZK is now the god of *consensual* SM. Nuff said about that.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Brigh as The Great Gear Destroyer?

Kurgess as The God of Underhanded Sportsmanship and Dirty Tricks?

Zyphus as The God of Workplace Safety and Accident Prevention?

Milani as The Subversive Deity, the one that 'tests' the strength of governments, and pushes the weak ones to topple?

[Reduxist]

Everyone in Geb would essentially be a hell yeah skeleton, vampires, ghouls and other types of undead included. Yes, the Dullahans and Archliches too, even thought they have no way of putting on those damn sunglasses.

The vampires would all be a bunch of freedom loving anarchists, a la the Anarchs from Vampire: The Masquerade, only they're buddy-buddy with the fleshbag humans and feeding would be a mutual agreement. The ghoul's cannibalism could be passed off as a ritualistic appreciation gesture: "You lived your life helping us, and now you help us even in death. For that, we grant you this highest honor." Morghs would be not hanged criminals, but by the book cops seeking the bad guys down. Dullahans would run cab and porting services all over the country for reasonable fare.

Nex would still be full of asshats, but now they're stubborn magical-luddites. The titular leaders would be at a standstill for different reasons: Geb is completely willing to end the war and broker a peace between the nations, but nubile Nex is essentially Eustace Baggs: "Nope, not getting outta this chair."

The Mana Wastes would be chock full of magic and every spell would operate at an ubercharged level of power, much to Nex's chagrin.

[Reduxist]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Brigh as The Great Gear Destroyer?

Kurgess as The God of Underhanded Sportsmanship and Dirty Tricks?

Zyphus as The God of Workplace Safety and Accident Prevention?

Milani as The Subversive Deity, the one that 'tests' the strength of governments, and pushes the weak ones to topple?

As meme-y as it might be, I immediately imagined Kurgess as a Robbie Rotten or Dick Dastardly type of guy: he's so over the top despicable and zany in the ways he cheats that the audience loves him for it.

Zyphus invents Golarion's equivalent of OSHA and is a frequent collaborator of Urgathoa's to provide reasonable medical care to others.

[Xuldarinar]

Reduxist wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Brigh as The Great Gear Destroyer?

Kurgess as The God of Underhanded Sportsmanship and Dirty Tricks?

Zyphus as The God of Workplace Safety and Accident Prevention?

Milani as The Subversive Deity, the one that 'tests' the strength of governments, and pushes the weak ones to topple?

As meme-y as it might be, I immediately imagined Kurgess as a Robbie Rotten or Dick Dastardly type of guy: he's so over the top despicable and zany in the ways he cheats that the audience loves him for it.

Zyphus invents Golarion's equivalent of OSHA and is a frequent collaborator of Urgathoa's to provide reasonable medical care to others.

First; I thought maybe then Kurgess could look like a mix of the two.

Now I can't get the image out of my head; Evil Kurgess looking like Waluigi.

On another note; What about Ahriman and the Div? Perhaps they still destroy, but to clear the way rather than ruining the creations of man.

And what about Demodand? LG creatures that worship the now LG titans alone and reject the gods..?

[Tacticslion]

(Kurgess would probably look more like Gaston...)

Reduxist wrote:

The vampires would all be a bunch of freedom loving anarchists, a la the Anarchs from Vampire: The Masquerade, only they're buddy-buddy with the fleshbag humans and feeding would be a mutual agreement. The ghoul's cannibalism could be passed off as a ritualistic appreciation gesture: "You lived your life helping us, and now you help us even in death. For that, we grant you this highest honor." Morghs would be not hanged criminals, but by the book cops seeking the bad guys down. Dullahans would run cab and porting services all over the country for reasonable fare.

The only problem with this is that, in-canon now, vampires are already chaotic for the most part. That, I think, would lend them toward being lawful good. Otherwise, carry on.

[Daedalus the Dungeon Builder]

So, I'm just throwing my hat in the ring. Spoilered to not take up half the screen.
Also, a note before I begin: I'm analyzing the gods as though their morality(G/E) and ethics (L/C) are simply reversed, and they now are more or less their mirror versions. Just clarifying that point.

Major Gods:

Abadar: Now the god of cheating, trying to get unfair deals, and undercutting your friends, your family, your city, and your nation, to improve your lot in life.
Asmodeus: The god of personal freedom. He still thinks that everyone must be under a master, but now is of the opinion that everyone is best being their own servant and master.
Calistra:Now the goddess of meticulously plotted revenge, carefully planned love, and the careful manipulation of the senses.
Cayden Cailean: Now a god of addictions, ruling over those brought senseless by strong drink or other addictive substances, controlling the minds so carelessly wasted upon "revelry," and rejoicing in a carefully executed, and highly efficient, kill.
Desna: Now the black star, Desna is a pure opposite, now the goddess of bad luck, nightmares, and misfortune upon the road.
Erastil: Once the slayer of terrible beasts and protector of the community, Erastil will still carefully tend to a small, remote village, allowing it to grow just enough to serve as bait for horrific monsters as he stalks the land for the most challenging creature to hunt.
Gorum: Now the god of generals, taking pride in the precise application of the perfect military tactic that leads either side to a device, quick, and efficient victory.
Gozreh: The wind and waves continue to kill and nurture as they will, with no real change.
Iomedae: Now interested in only serving her own code of "honor," to bring herself all that she desires, a kingdom for her to rule or destroy at her whim, the only true justice in her eyes.
Irori: Now teaches that the best way to perfect yourself is to venture out and allow your inner self to guide you without second thoughts, trying whatever catches your eye and doing whatever you heart looks to.
Lamashtu: Now, instead of unleashing her beasts upon the world, she teaches her worshipers to tame the wildest creature and befriend it.
Nethys: Slightly more insane than before, but not so you'd notice.
Norgorber: The god of righteous and honorable death, obtaining knowledge for all, and also a god of herbalists.
Pharasma: Not sure what to do with Pharasma. DOes she now support the creation and use of undead, because they're good? Or does she now war against the now-good gods who create undead?
Rovagug: Now the god of utter destruction... of evil. As long as there is evil or chaos in the world, he will not rest. He will destroy only that which is harmful or dangerous, not everything.
Sarenrae: The new goddess of corruption. She would sooner see an enemy come to her worship than for them to die, and there is nothing she will not to to make that happen.
Shelyn: The goddess of debasement, self-destructive pleasures, and expressing the horrors you have been through.
Torag: Teaches to build and make things only to either destroy them later, or to destroy something else with it. He says that each stroke of the hammer must be new and completely different, for only then can the metal truly come out as what it truly is.
Urugathoa: The goddess of life, and the pursuit of all things in life that are good, and the sharing of those gifts, and the lengthening of life however is good.
Zon-Kuthon: Teaches that pain is honorable when endured for a good cause, and that death is merely the next step to ultimate freedom. He teaches that all that is horrible can be used for good and by good, because no individual thing is good or bad unless it has a mind.

Other Gods:

Not going through all of them, just a couple interesting ones.

Besmara: The goddess of naval battles, clever and well planned tricks, and the seas.
Brigh: Immune to mind-effecting effects Sorry, just had to put that one in there
Groetus: Teaches the importance of destruction of the old to make room for the new.
Zyphus: Still the god of accidental death, but he now comforts those poor, lost souls who had no destiny, and puts their minds to rest.

Sorry if any of it sounded odd. It's about 2 AM where I'm at, but I wanted to get this out tonight.

[Balancer]

A part of me loves the idea of Norgerber turning into the God of informants, medicine and grizzled lose cannon detectives.

I want this so, bad.

Also I imagine that the old ones are still breathtakingly mind shattering to behold, except instead of formless chaotic madness they're now complete unchanging order.

[The Sideromancer]

The fey would probably be less jerkish, as the average Eldest alignment becomes north of neutral rather than south of it.

[Quentin Coldwater]

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

Necromancy and Evil have been rammed together in a rather hammy and irrational way frankly its as if the team just picked 'nasty things' and made them necromancy with no clear reliance on on logic.

Take for example, The Inflict line of spells and the cure line of spells, the cure line of spells are conjuration, presumably because they conjure positive energy from the positive energy plane, yet the inflict line are nercomancy, why? Who knows no clear reason exists for why one could not conjure negative energy from the negative energy plane.

So perhaps Necromancy is just power over death, when really it should be life and death

this raises two issues, Why is Raise dead not a necromancy spell? its direct control over the forces of death, well because Raise Dead is nice.

Furthermore, Waves of Ecstasy is Enchanting same goes for Euphoric Tranquility, thus we establish that Enchanting has the power to manipulate ones emotions, yet Fear is necromancy. How is making someone scared any different from making someone Euphoric or ecstatic?

well its nasty so we will stick it in necromancy with the various other random nasty things.

Necromancy has no clear niche is in control of life and death, or even just death, and it takes the unpleasant bits other schools of magic would rather not associate with. Its just unimaginatively nasty and bad and bleh.

I once played a videogame where I was the benevolent queen of the land, and an actual reincarnation of a good-aligned deity. Her specialisation in magic was Necromancy. Basically, undead-controlling, the only school to actually revive people, and regular healing. There also was the Healing school, that cured status effects and the like, but Necromancy was the only one able to resurrect people. I've always found it odd how the good-aligned ruler was a necromancer. >_>

[Reduxist]

The Empyreal Lords would all be a motley crew of "screw yous", including but not limited to:

• Ragathiel, a lazy jerk with no work ethic whatsoever. Does not give a damn what others think of him. His portfolio would be Nepotism, Shortcuts and "...Meh."
  
• Black Butterfly would act friendly to the now reformed Elder Gods, only to try and manipulate them into doing dirty work without their knowledge. Will violate your personal space and will not shut up.
  
• Arshea is a philistine and believes in utility over creativity at all costs. He doesn't care if it looks pretty and would probably care a bit more if it wasn't, as long as it works well for his designs, the prude is pleased.
  
• Dammerich works for the dirty cops of the world. Oh, that guy is supposed to be on the chopping block? Whoops, seems that guy is somehow innocent, let's drag a random bystander from their home to replace that!
  
• Andoletta scoffs at the idea of "due to the dead" and would gladly take every opportunity to badmouth someone at their own funeral, especially at one she crashed. She would also break into your house just to do something petty like point and call you names.
  
• Videlis is a complete safety freak, paranoid about anything and everything. To that end, she would rather sacrifice everything else if it meant she wouldn't have to get hurt once. She can see all kinds of danger from no matter how far away it is, which mortifies her to no end.

[Chromantic Durgon <3]

Daedalus the Dungeon Builder wrote:

So, I'm just throwing my hat in the ring. Spoilered to not take up half the screen.

Also, a note before I begin: I'm analyzing the gods as though their morality(G/E) and ethics (L/C) are simply reversed, and they now are more or less their mirror versions. Just clarifying that point.
** spoiler omitted **...

Pharasma never opposed the creation of undead because they were Evil, she doesn't like them because she believes them to be a perversion of death and given that she is the god of life and death thats a bit of an issue.

They also started when Urgothoa escaped from the boneyard, which I imagine was probably quite damaging to Pharasma's reputation. Pharasma herself is truly neutral and doesn't give two s#@#s about good vs evil. She also doesn't really war against Urgothoa from what I know, just holds a grudge, her followers however are a different story.

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

I once played a videogame where I was the benevolent queen of the land, and an actual reincarnation of a good-aligned deity. Her specialisation in magic was Necromancy. Basically, undead-controlling, the only school to actually revive people, and regular healing. There also was the Healing school, that cured status effects and the like, but Necromancy was the only one able to resurrect people. I've always found it odd how the good-aligned ruler was a necromancer. >_>

Necromancy isn't evil in traditional fantasy, its power over life and death, it just happens that a lot of evil people can do a lot of evil stuff with that.

[AwesomelyEpic]

Malefactor wrote:

Ascalaphus wrote:

AwesomelyEpic wrote:

Rovagug dedicated to smiling evil

Done.

So, what you guys are saying is that LawfulGood!Rovagug is pretty much Ragathiel?

...I see no problems with this.

Kind of, but as a full deity, as opposed to an empyreal lord. I feel like the LG version of destruction is destruction channeled towards a good purpose, so smiting of evil. While not exactly like Iomedae, he basically fills her role, becoming the new main patron of paladins.

Iomedae would basically become the goddess of "asskicking equals authority," that being my view of CE rulership and honor. Valor remains, because evil people can be brave, too.

There are also aberration deities, namely the Lovecraft ones. LG Cthulhu would be pretty weird...

[Mudfoot]

andygal wrote:

ZK is now the god of *consensual* SM. Nuff said about that.

Calistria is the goddess of bondage. Not nuff said about that...

[Andrew Marlow]

If gods had their alignments flipped but retained as many of their domains as reasonable.

Abadar
God of the mystery box. What's inside? Who knows. His followers also carry around a box of personal mystery on their quest to spread their civilization. There are as many of these civilizations as there are followers, with the exact nature of them being entirely up to them. It could be their children, gold, or a disease. Who knows. While many see the followers as vagrants at best, they see themselves as kings and queens of a nation of one.
Asmodeus
Good hearted trickster god. The only way you could get him or one of his devils to do what he promises is by making him sign a contract. Most of the time he brings pranks of no harm, maybe even excessively generous. His kindness knows no stranger and is handed out at random.
Calistria
The Goddess of courtley love, vows, wedding cermonies, arranged marriages, and sex for procreation only. If a sacred vow is broken to one of her followers, they are completely just in any act of vengeance or trickery they commit. Otherwise, she is also known for being a goddess of good fortune in all things people seek, not just a spouse.
Cayden Caliean
The wandering swindler. Cayden Caliean travels across the land to use his charm and might to convince others to hand him what he desires. The odd thing is, he is not a deceitful god, if asked, he makes his intentions plain, but people just find it difficult to say no to him. His arrival is often both a blessing and a curse. If asked, he will fight off bandits, slay great beasts, even repair your home, but he demands a reward afterwards and will only speak of it after the deed is done. It is often far worse than the problem that required his aid. His stays true to this and will make sure you do as well. If you fail to provide, he will make wine from your blood and keep your soul in a tankard.
Desna
The cosmic invader. After Lamashtu slayed the tyrant Curchanus, she took up his mantle and took his endless conquest to the stars. Her army never rests and if it wasn't for the world guardian Rovagug, she would have long conquered Golarion.
Erastil
God of the Wild Hunt. Erastil holds a tight group of the souls of the worst murderers and most powerful archons. Those that tread on what he deems his wilderness are ruthlessly chased every night. Other times he hunts people down for the challenge of it. The strongest and greatest among use must constantly keep watch of their back and sleep with one eye open for Old Deadeye.
Gorum
God of honorable war and war treaties. Gorum's highest priests seek to learn to control their rage and ferocity, to refine it. Their destruction is not like wild fire, but a harnessed beam so that they may strike only other worthy opponents. Gorum always teaches to practice restraint, especially towards those weaker than yourself; to never take advantage of an opponents misfortune, to never war for the sake of war, that fighting is the last solution, not the first. This is the path to glory.
Gozreh
A dualistic deity, a god of the wave and surf and also a goddess of the storm and sky. Remarkably calm to the point of apathy towards everything, even when Gozreh's domain of nature wreaks havoc on the innocent.
Iomedae
Goddess of self glorification. She fights not for land, peace, or ideology. She fights to prove her strength over others. See that tree? It thinks it's so strong and big. I'll cut it down to size. She is also the goddess of petty slights. Consistently when Desna is at her greatest and on the verge victory, Iomedae's envy and desire to prove herself flings her into war with Desna, much to her displeasure. She used to believe Gorum to be a worthy opponent, but his constant refusal to fight convinced her that he is cowardly and worthless.
Irori
God of barbarians. He was once a hedonist of the greatest magnitude. His desires had no bounds, committing any act his heart pushed him towards. His debauchery led him to a state of ecstasy beyond mortal comprehension, so he became no longer mortal. In this moment of enlightenment, he not only became a god by accident, but also learned knowledge unknown, including runes. His followers seek to follow his path to godhood, but none have found the secret combination of drink, food, and sex.
Lamashtu
A motherly goddess who could no longer stand witnessing creatures enslaved by Curchanus and dying in his wars, so she allied with Desna briefly to plot his demise. His murder was not desired but a necessity. On his death, she took his godly domain over beasts, to be nursed back to health by her, but after Desna stripped his domain of travel, she turned on Lamashtu who narrowly escaped. She could never bring herself to war, harming her children. Her protectiveness, while overbearing to the point of controlling, is extended to all who would take it. She is also a fertility goddess, giving those who do good by her strong, healthy children. Those who earn her disdain, those who harm their own children being the worse, are punished with infertility and a visit by the Child Protective Services.
Nethys
Once two powerful wizards constantly at war with each other. By a magical mishap, they merged into one being. While their opposing personalities used frequently be in conflict, centuries of meditation and "just getting used to it", has brought them into harmony and gave one half a new found understanding of the other. Honestly, he doesn't know what he would do without himself.
Norgorber
God of vigilantes by night, charming philanthropist by day, Norgorber is not only charming, but clever too. He is always first to the crime scene and the punchline. He always seems one step ahead, almost by clairvoyance, but really, he just knows others better than they know themselves. Norgorber's followers do not seek to punish evil-doers, but keep a watchful eye where no one else does, protectors of the night.
Pharasma
Accurately predicting the birth of Aroden, Pharasma finds her power of prophecy growing stronger. Unfortunately, her domain over death, birth, and fate are weakening. At this point, souls are starting to judge themselves.
Rovagug
The gentle giant and cosmic savior. Golarion was a tumultuous place of suffering before Rovagug arrived. A protector of planets and hero to all the good aliens, Rovagug noticed that one planet was not happy, Golarion. He made hasty work imprisoning all the wicked and chaotic gods (Abadar, Apsu, Dahak, Desna, Dou-Bral, Erastil, Gozreh, Pharasma, Sarenrae, and Torag) and quickly began bringing smiles and cheer to all life. Yet Asmodeus was tricked into letting all the gods out and forced to sign a contract to help them destroy Rovagug. When the battle would soon draw to a close, Calistria uncovered Desna's plan to turn her armies against the other gods soon after. Low on strength, but still as selfless as ever, Rovagug begged the gods to seal him within the core of Golarion. From there he could create a protective barrier to keep Desna's forces to return. Priests of Desna for-tell a most fortunate day for their goddess, when the stars are just right and Rovagug's shield weakens, ushering in the return of The Great Dreamer and ending her exile.
Sarenrae
The searing sun. Just as the sun blisters the skin does Sarenrae contort and torment the flesh. She'll slice off your limbs with her cauterizing scimitar and torture you to death, only to bring you back to life and repeat the process. The pure of heart and virtuous are her favorite prey. Victims either go mad or surrender themselves to The Everlight.
Shelyn
This goddess of vanity seeks to rid the world of all who she finds ugly. This does not always mean by ending their existence, many that she finds to have potential, her priests mainly, she'll graciously put in the effort of remolding them to live up to her standards. Viewing herself as the most beautiful being in existence, this often leads to some interesting results. All expressions of ones love towards her brings her great pleasure, leading to many songs, poems, and painting praising her many flawless qualities. The being she loved the most, other than herself, was her half-brother Dou-Bral, who looked the most like her, naturally. She kept him around mainly as a pet, but once escaped he found solace and peace with another, vowing to never return. Shelyn vows to bring him back and "make him more beautiful than ever."
Torag
There is no predicting what the mad artisan will create, only that it will make your life miserable. Never ending labyrinths, torture devices, and uncontrollable golems are all favorites of his but by no means staples. his followers once kept their work beneath the ground, but he demanded that they rise forth and share their gifts with the surface dwellers. He may not be willing to let others play with his toys, but he sure is willing to let his toys play with others.
Urgathoa
While plague and the occasional dead rising are uncontrollable forces of nature, Urgathoa is certainly willing to lend a hand when others are in need. Her priests cure diseases and help escort the expired find their way back to their beds. The truly selfless of her followers will even offer to continue their services after death. And being the goddess of plenty, some followers even offer to become fertilizer to help with next years crops.
Zon-Kuthon
While fleeing from his sister, Dou-Bral found the only refuge to be between the planes, where he found an alien being who taught him the path of freedom through pain. Through pain will he free his mind of his sister's influence and through pain will he find bliss. Grateful, the now reborn Zon-Kuthon carries this strange creature within his heart, where it always keeps him company. Mutilated and confident, Shelyn was abhors what her brother has become. His followers torment themselves consistantly, self-flagellation being the most common method. They never torture the unwilling, but are always eager to give a hand.

This was actually pretty exhausting. Maybe I'll continue with the minor deities and proof-read later.

[dysartes]

Would the Great Old Ones still destroy sanity, or might they restore it?

C'thulhu as the multiverse's greatest therapist?

[Rub-Eta]

I'd move to the World Wound.

[Xuldarinar]

dysartes wrote:

Would the Great Old Ones still destroy sanity, or might they restore it?

C'thulhu as the multiverse's greatest therapist?

C'thulhu takes on the name Kthanid and..

I quit.

If you have to ask who Kthanid is, I bring this up from another thread;

James Jacobs wrote:

captain yesterday wrote:

What is Kthanid?

Cthulhu's good-guy brother who lives in a sparkly cave on another planet.

(rolls eyes)