So we are using spheres of power so my level 1 druid player can shift into an earth elemental. The stats come out very fair, so I have no issue with it and do not want to modify or remove his skills.
What I'm after is some GM advice on how I can control my earth swimming player. He can burrow though earth and stone, and can even burrow though manufactured stone such as walls, and also actively does not leave a sign of the burrowing.
With this power he has been "swimming" though and around the dungeon, just peeking though walls to see what he can see. Rules I have so far:
-while under the earth you can see nothing.
-must make perception checks in order to hear or detect anything.
All DC's are for being just below the surface, raises +10 every foot deeper he travels.
Hear the sound of battle
0
Notice the stench of rotting garbage
0
Detect the smell of smoke
10
Hear the details of a conversation
10
Notice a stationary non-stealthing creature
10
Hear the sound of a non-stealthing creature walking
20
Hear the details of a whispered conversation
25
-can use a 5ft step to rise or sink into the earth.
Does anyone have ideas on how i can regulate him in a way that hinders his swim, while not entirely eliminating its usefulness.
If the bad guys start picking up on this fit, maybe they'll leave some lava laying around, or transmuting stone walls to some other material like wood or iron when they know he's near (Creation Sphere).
Divination abilities may help point him out right away as well as Detect Magic is its base ability and he's using magic to travel around.
Having people that cast Snagging Darkness or Disorienting Darkness as a readied action as he pops through the walls would be good as well.
An Energy Wall where he least expects it may ruin his fun some, but also make him start thinking about his next magic talents.
Steal Senses (Enhancement) would be a good trap to spring on him.
An illusory wall (base Illusion) with Illusonary Touch would be something he'd have to content with, since he couldn't normally pass through it without disbelieving it.
Set up a Teleport Trap and have him jump straight to the boss alone. Make sure he's softened up a bit using the Splinter talent as well.
Lastly, put creatures in that depend on extreme climates for their comfort, and then use any Weather effects to raise the climates to those extremes.
There's lots more ideas, but I'm sure you can come up with your own. What I love about Spheres of Power is that they allow a character to do lots of cool things right at level 1. Want to cast a fireball right away? Boom, level 1. Feel like flying without wings? There's a number of ways of doing that (I'm partial to the Alteration Sphere myself). Feel like you want a pet dragon to aid you on your adventure? Conjuration has you covered, and at level 1. Any time I start stating out a Mageknight, he starts with the Warp Sphere. All my squishies pick up Emergency Teleport at level 1, regardless of whatever else they do.
So we are using spheres of power so my level 1 druid player can shift into an earth elemental. The stats come out very fair, so I have no issue with it and do not want to modify or remove his skills.
What I'm after is some GM advice on how I can control my earth swimming player. He can burrow though earth and stone, and can even burrow though manufactured stone such as walls, and also actively does not leave a sign of the burrowing.
With this power he has been "swimming" though and around the dungeon, just peeking though walls to see what he can see. Rules I have so far:
-while under the earth you can see nothing.
-must make perception checks in order to hear or detect anything.
** spoiler omitted **
-can use a 5ft step to rise or sink into the earth.Does anyone have ideas on how i can regulate him in a way that hinders his swim, while not entirely eliminating its usefulness.
Metal bar reinforcement in walls, lead glazing/lining on sensitive rooms. Earth Elemental cant pass thru steel beams
What else is burrowing in the earth that might take notice? One or two close encounters might discourage frequent use.
I suspect earth elementals can't pass through living wood either. The roots of big trees could be a problem, though he can probably push through grass roots.
just remember not to overdo it. He got the ability for a reason, let him use it sometimes
This is one reason why I offered the "what else is underground?" approach. The ability is there to be used and they should be allowed to use it, but it can come with an increasing risk of attracting unwanted attention (e.g. an ankheg at low levels, a xorn or a bulette at higher ones) if it's overused.
Also, anything that has tremorsense is going to be on high alert.
Make the encounter in a massive treehouse? Like a city sized tree house all wood.
Maybe make later dungeons sometimes have multiple levels. Underground, his earth elemental form would rule, but it adjoins underwater caves, so he'd have to spend more power to switch to a water elemental, and then there's the fact that the tunnels come out near above-mentioned treehouses, which would make him spend more power on air elemental form...
The art of dealing with spheres casters in their area of specialty is just getting them to use as many spell points as they can.
And critical rooms with the lead lining for above mentioned reasons.
And some rooms would be laced with metal, like armories or some versions of trophy rooms, or the like, which also hinders burrow speed.
This advice is all very helpful, thanks guys.
Burrow (Ex)
Burrow details were not included in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game so the details shown here were copied from d20srd.org.
A creature with a burrow speed can tunnel through dirt, but not through rock unless the descriptive text says otherwise. Creatures cannot charge or run while burrowing. Most burrowing creatures do not leave behind tunnels other creatures can use (either because the material they tunnel through fills in behind them or because they do not actually dislocate any material when burrowing); see the individual creature descriptions for details.
As others said, don't overdo restrictions. But on the other hand, this can be a pretty powerful ability. That being said, dirt isn't always abundant. Earth Elementals have Earth Glide, which allows them to pass through rock and other materials, but it's debatable whether it allows it to end its movement in rock. Lots of places have just a really thin layer of top soil over the ground rock, which wouldn't provide enough space to cover a whole creature.
Don't forget any cover or concealment that may apply to there attacks while burrowed, if they try to attack while submerged.
And readyed attacks, supper useful when your not sure when an enemy's gonna pop out anywere.
Enemies can summon earth elemental of their own.
Some animals and other low-CR foes have burrow speeds.
What I'm after is some GM advice on how I can control my earth swimming player. He can burrow though earth and stone, and can even burrow though manufactured stone such as walls, and also actively does not leave a sign of the burrowing.
You let him burrow thru:
earthstone
manufactured stone
As Goblin_Priest indicated, only the first is standard burrow.
Below are some related items. Burrowing thru stone is not the norm, until you get to earth glide.
/jeff
An eidolon grows thick and gnarled claws, allowing it to move through the earth. The eidolon gains a burrow speed equal to 1/2 its base speed. It can use this speed to move through . It does not leave a hole behind, nor is its passage marked on the surface. The summoner must be at least 9th level before selecting this evolution.
The ground parts for you at the slightest touch, allowing you to dig with great speed.
Prerequisites: Stony Step, character level 9th, oread.
Benefit: You gain a burrow speed equal to 1/2 your base speed. You can burrow through . You do not leave a hole behind, nor is your passage marked on the surface.
School transmutation; Level alchemist 3, druid 3, ranger 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 minute/level
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
The subject can burrow at a speed of 15 feet (or 10 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load) through . Using burrow requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The burrowing creature cannot charge or run. Loose material collapses behind the target 1 round after it leaves the area. This spell does not give the target the ability to breathe underground, so when passing through loose material, the creature must hold its breath and take only short trips, or else it may suffocate.
stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal[/ooc] as easily as a fish swims through water. If protected against fire damage, it can even glide through lava. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other sign of its presence. A move earth spell cast on an area containing the burrowing creature flings it back 30 feet, stunning it for 1 round unless it succeeds on a DC 15 Fortitude save.
Format: earth glide; Location: Speed.
What else is burrowing in the earth that might take notice? One or two close encounters might discourage frequent use.
I like this one. Every time he uses earth glide in combat (or whenever you think it's a good time) just roll a d% and consult a random underground encounter table.
You could have say a 59% chance that nothing happens, 20% chance you get a minor encounter, 10% chance there's a medium encounter, 10% chance there's a good/friendly encounter and a 1% chance there's a really bad thing down there.
Make this really open what you're doing, and you could even let the players see the table so they know the odds of everything
Even a minor encounter is going to be annoying if you're already in combat. A medium encounter could basically turn a normal encounter into a boss encounter. A friendly encounter will make things easier for the party but would add some fun to the game. That last 1% chance might discourage them from trying things if they're already stretched for resources ... or they might gamble and end up with a TPK =P
I dunno it depends on your players, John Mechalas' idea was the one that sparked the most interest in me
What I'm after is some GM advice on how I can control my earth swimming player. He can burrow though earth and stone, and can even burrow though manufactured stone such as walls, and also actively does not leave a sign of the burrowing.You let him burrow thru:
earth
stone
manufactured stoneAs Goblin_Priest indicated, only the first is standard burrow.
The player is using Spheres of Power, which specifically grants Earth Glide, as an earth elemental (I just checked), so he's actually allowing it to the exact extent the power allows (I also just checked Earth Glide on d20pfsrd) and just has the Burrow speed to denote how far he can earth glide each turn.
Also, better on topic, I'd like to cast my support behind the random encounters taking notice thing, as that seems an entirely reasonable consequence of this trick.
There are not that many creatures that burrow, not enough to justify a random encounter anyway every time he burrows. If that is the case the burrowing monsters are close enough to attack the party above ground unless he goes really far underground, especially if they have tremorsense.
Dealing with burrow is worse than flying. He can't go through worked stone walls or floors. You have to assume that the earth they move through has some sort of 'give' to it. Dirt, sand and gravel are fine but large obstructions are sort of like walls, but underground.
Some areas may have hazards underground like poisonous gas pockets, lava, acid or your good ol' friendly swarm of ants. They aren't listed as having a burrow speed but you can make it up as you go along. Think of them like earth bees!
Alternatively having a burrow speed does not mean you have 'burrow sight', survival checks to know where he's going or spells to 'find north'.
I remember a player attempted to burrow under a hallway we assumed was trapped. He burrowed into a pit trap and suffered accordingly.
Some areas may have hazards underground like poisonous gas pockets, lava, acid or your good ol' friendly swarm of ants. They aren't listed as having a burrow speed but you can make it up as you go along. Think of them like earth bees!
Hahaha that's the best!
There are not that many creatures that burrow, not enough to justify a random encounter anyway every time he burrows. If that is the case the burrowing monsters are close enough to attack the party above ground unless he goes really far underground, especially if they have tremorsense.
Yeah I agree there aren't enough to have an encounter every time he burrows. I've changed my mind about how often you should meet something, I think it should be a 20% chance of an extra encounter. 40-50% is just going to slow the game down too much, but you want it to be a high enough chance that they may fear the deep! (but you know, tailor those % chances to your table of course)