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voska66 wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote: If you want ways to solve this w/o murdering people, you need to tell us more about the corruptions bit. How did you get them? Why did destroying the black blade restore the magus? How did he know it would? We don't know the sources of the corruptions. They just started happening. And there was no indication that destroying the Black Blade would end the Magi's corruption. There was a whole chain of events that led to the Blade's destruction. I even made a thread that covered most of that mess.
After the Magus performed the ritual to get his Black Blade back, he was freed of the corruption, his Black Blade became a White Blade, and the Sword got a better disposition as a result. The Magus also has gleaned some knowledge about the corruptions by performing the ritual.
The Shaman is slowly becoming undead. He became gaunt (the GM specifically showed pictures of Holocaust survivors to give an idea of what the Shaman is looking like), developed a black ichor instead of blood, and now has no flesh on his forearms. As a result of the latest corruption for the Shaman, he now has a lich's Paralyzing Touch ability.
As for my paladin, he's developed Infernal/ Abyssal traits. At level 10, my paladin has large wings with 60 ft fly speed and poor maneuverability. There are other bonuses, like a +2 bonus to STR and CON, Acid Resist 15, Regen 5, and a +4 bonus to FORT saves to overcome Poison effects. I'd play this corruption out and fall as Paladin rising and anti-paladin with wings. I would chaotic evil stupid, I'd go like Dexter as serial killer hunting bad guys enjoying the hunt and the kill. I'd roleplay out the struggle, resisting at first, then finding bad guys to kill, that might work for bit but soon I'd be killing them to survive and starting to enjoy it. Then turn to the darkside as curse progressed.
Could be that's cure though. Resisting to bitter end. But I'm a paladin. I like being a genuine hero. So I have to find a way to purify the corruption.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Sadly, I am all the way up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the offer, though. well if you dont mind playing a lawful evil paladin of asmodeous you could come join my game
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Lady-J wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Sadly, I am all the way up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the offer, though. well if you dont mind playing a lawful evil paladin of asmodeous you could come join my game I'm not quite certain I'm in the mood to play any evil characters now or in the future. I find a sense of catharsis from playing Good aligned characters. It makes me feel better.
Thanks for the offer, though.
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Unlike the previous thread, this sounds fun/cool to me.
I'd play it through, keep do-gooding until you find a solution or the curse takes you out, start taking care of a bucket list and planning your last night.. definitely help the shaman first..
also, should probably ask a party member to keep an eye on you while sleeping in case the curse takes over when you're not conscious..
if you start needing will saves to resist the urge, only then fall on your sword, unless you can make that a thing for your last night (maybe a vigil so you can go out by the sword at dawn while the curse tries to finish you)..
Cult of Vorg wrote: Unlike the previous thread, this sounds fun/cool to me.
I'd play it through, keep do-gooding until you find a solution or the curse takes you out, start taking care of a bucket list and planning your last night.. definitely help the shaman first..
also, should probably ask a party member to keep an eye on you while sleeping in case the curse takes over when you're not conscious..
if you start needing will saves to resist the urge, only then fall on your sword, unless you can make that a thing for your last night (maybe a vigil so you can go out by the sword at dawn while the curse tries to finish you)..
But the Shaman thinks I'm the priority. So it's a bit of a tossup as to who's corruption should be dealt with first. If the Shaman believes I should be dealt with first, I'd have to agree with him. Admittedly, I have a bit of bias. But this isn't exactly a situation where we can afford to spend time arguing.
Well, it seems worst case scenario the Shaman turns into a Lich. Which is nothing but good unless you really hate undead.
You will die. Of course you're the priority.
Sundakan wrote: Well, it seems worst case scenario the Shaman turns into a Lich. Which is nothing but good unless you really hate undead.
You will die. Of course you're the priority.
He's still Neutral Good and healed by positive energy. I think he has more time than me.
Just saw you have Regeneration. You can't die from the HP damage. Heck, you can't die at all until something shuts your regeneration off.
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I don't think this is a personal attack. It's just one of those save the adorable innocent puppy, or the world.
Of course in stories the hero does both. I think this sounds like a plot hook that'll take in character roleplay and redemption. Sounds cool. Also, if you die but actually enjoy the way the story went, that is actually good. (As long as you have fun) This is a syory, not a survival game.
Like think of Harry Potter characters dying. It improves the story, the emotions, and in general just a better plot.
Azten wrote: Just saw you have Regeneration. You can't die from the HP damage. Heck, you can't die at all until something shuts your regeneration off. This specific HP damage can't be healed by Regeneration. It keeps going down by 2 HP a day unless I murder someone impulsively or plan for it.
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I second the Anti-Paladin thing. It is obviously what the GM wants. Your first victim should be the GMPC.
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So take Diehard as a feat. The HP damage can't kill you, even if it can't be healed. You are officially awesome now.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Kevin Mack wrote: Hold up did the maguses blade get broken in the same incident that caused the previous thread? Yes. Yes it did. And when I brought it up, I got "good ends don't justify the means". Which feels like a contradiction of terms if you think the paladin has to be played like an extremist. That one I can support and explain:
Let's say the world is about to end. And the murder of a newborn baby will stop it. The end - saving the world; does not justify the means - murder of an innocent.
A paladin not only must do the right thing, but he must do it in the right way.
Azten wrote: So take Diehard as a feat. The HP damage can't kill you, even if it can't be healed. You are officially awesome now. Don't have the Endurance feat. I would have to be lvl. 13 in order to pull that off, and I would like to resolve this before then.
GreenDragon1133 wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Kevin Mack wrote: Hold up did the maguses blade get broken in the same incident that caused the previous thread? Yes. Yes it did. And when I brought it up, I got "good ends don't justify the means". Which feels like a contradiction of terms if you think the paladin has to be played like an extremist. That one I can support and explain:
Let's say the world is about to end. And the murder of a newborn baby will stop it. The end - saving the world; does not justify the means - murder of an innocent.
A paladin not only must do the right thing, but he must do it in the right way. I agree that killing the child is not an ideal solution to the problem. I personally would look into alternative means of saving the world. But if push comes to shove...
That's one of the times I would gladly take a fall to save the world and work to redeem myself later. I would be prepared to do so if no other options were available. An absolute last resort.
Right but in stories you very rarely kill the newborn. You normally kill yhe villsin, or find an Option C, because Good doesn't really compromise. To pass the test, you hold onto your ideals.
MageHunter wrote: Right but in stories you very rarely kill the newborn. You normally kill yhe villsin, or find an Option C, because Good doesn't really compromise. To pass the test, you hold onto your ideals. I get that. I really do. I would power on through, looking on for a way to take that vital third option. But if the world is literally crumbling down around me... I don't what I might to do to save as many lives as I could.
One level of Unbreakable?
Azten wrote: One level of Unbreakable? Maybe. But like I said, I would like to resolve this before my next level up.
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1: I would have already handed my character to the GM and told him to enjoy playing them, but that's just me.
2: You can let the character die. If the GM doesn't forcibly turn them into an undead, you can start a game from the other side, offer the ex-GM a chance to play a prepetitioner while you GM. Link to be posted soon.
3: This person should have said they hate paladins before the characters were created. If you want to rebuild the character, I would suggest an inquisitor.
4: You should talk to the GM and tell him that's what you plan to do. Also, if you have to make harder and harder will saves to avoid killing innocents, you are going to find an inquisitor to behead you and burn the corpse before it can rise. If tearing off the demon wings will cure you, that's something an agent of your deity might tell you in a dream. If some evil entity needs to corrupt good people to free themselves from "the cage", martyring yourself is the best way to ruin the whole plan.
5: If the GM simply thinks you were spamming the atonement spell, they should have placed a phylactery of faithfulness somewhere in the campaign.
Goth Guru wrote: 1: I would have already handed my character to the GM and told him to enjoy playing them, but that's just me.
2: You can let the character die. If the GM doesn't forcibly turn them into an undead, you can start a game from the other side, offer the ex-GM a chance to play a prepetitioner while you GM. Link to be posted soon.
3: This person should have said they hate paladins before the characters were created. If you want to rebuild the character, I would suggest an inquisitor.
4: You should talk to the GM and tell him that's what you plan to do. Also, if you have to make harder and harder will saves to avoid killing innocents, you are going to find an inquisitor to behead you and burn the corpse before it can rise. If tearing off the demon wings will cure you, that's something an agent of your deity might tell you in a dream. If some evil entity needs to corrupt good people to free themselves from "the cage", martyring yourself is the best way to ruin the whole plan.
5: If the GM simply thinks you were spamming the atonement spell, they should have placed a phylactery of faithfulness somewhere in the campaign.
He doesn't hate paladins. He just has a rather strict, black and white view of how they should be played.
I've only had the Atonement spell cast once on me during the last session. It's the GM's official opinion I should seek out the spell more regularly to prevent another fall.
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If you play Paladins as Black and White you're going to fall because not everyone has the same "color spectrum". Hence all the old baby monster discussions.
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Madokar Valortouched wrote:
He doesn't hate paladins. He just has a rather strict, black and white view of how they should be played.
I've only had the Atonement spell cast once on me during the last session. It's the GM's official opinion I should seek out the spell more regularly to prevent another fall.
Your GM is clearly an idiot and doesn't know how to run a game properly. Run.
In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure.
GM Rednal wrote: In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure. Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins.
Azten wrote: If you play Paladins as Black and White you're going to fall because not everyone has the same "color spectrum". Hence all the old baby monster discussions. My thoughts exactly.
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Bloodrealm wrote: GM Rednal wrote: In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure. Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins. We talked about that too. From now on, the group is going to be clear on how they view the paladin class before they start the next campaign. Regardless of who is going to be the GM. They all agree it's good policy to establish such things going in, as opposed to dropping it on a player halfway through the campaign.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Bloodrealm wrote: GM Rednal wrote: In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure. Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins. We talked about that too. From now on, the group is going to be clear on how they view the paladin class before they start the next campaign. Regardless of who is going to be the GM. They all agree it's good policy to establish such things going in, as opposed to dropping it on a player halfway through the campaign. I'm glad your group has managed to agreed to do that.
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Bloodrealm wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Bloodrealm wrote: GM Rednal wrote: In fairness, regular Atonement is not an unheard-of way to run Paladins. Heck, there's a prestige class - from Frog God Games, not Paizo, but still - that has the Justicars (basically super-Paladins) needing to get Atonement even if they didn't do anything wrong. XD Basically regular spiritual cleansing just to be absolutely sure. Regular Atonements is a completely unfair and stupid way to run Paladins. It's just punishing someone for playing Paladin. They're not supposed to be the "hard mode" class; they're supposed to be THE good guys! If the GM wanted to run Paladins that way, they should have talked about it beforehand so that the player could choose not to play a Paladin with an idiot who hates Paladins. We talked about that too. From now on, the group is going to be clear on how they view the paladin class before they start the next campaign. Regardless of who is going to be the GM. They all agree it's good policy to establish such things going in, as opposed to dropping it on a player halfway through the campaign. I'm glad your group has managed to agreed to do that. Personally, I'm considering running my first campaign using Rise of the Runelords. This group hasn't played it yet, and the GMs I know from PFS say that it's a good set of Adventure Paths to get your feet wet when it comes to being a GM.
So if I commit to it, I'll show them how I view alignment and class restrictions.
(Note: I don't mean the "Constantly pay a bunch of money" kind of Atonement. I mean the "Generally goes to a church every time they enter town as a minor roleplaying note" type of Atonement. It's not something that should really interrupt you or anything like that. And I agree that how classes with things like alignment restrictions will be run should be agreed on ahead of time. XD)
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I would just try to find a cure till I died never give in to the murder thing. Literally just think of it instead as a curse that is slowly killing you and don't even consider the other way.
Vidmaster7 wrote: I would just try to find a cure till I died never give in to the murder thing. Literally just think of it instead as a curse that is slowly killing you and don't even consider the other way. That is the proper paladin thing to do. Which is what I consider doing if this falling on my sword thing doesn't work.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Lady-J wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Sadly, I am all the way up in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Thanks for the offer, though. well if you dont mind playing a lawful evil paladin of asmodeous you could come join my game I'm not quite certain I'm in the mood to play any evil characters now or in the future. I find a sense of catharsis from playing Good aligned characters. It makes me feel better.
Thanks for the offer, though. ok just thought i would offer
your GM's a bad story teller.
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I had a DM who did something similar to this to me, once. He wasn't a dick, but he GMed like a dick, which sounds like what you're dealing with.
My feeling from your two threads is that your GM really just wants to tell "His" story, not the groups, and screw you if you don't want to just ride the rails.
I wouldn't recommend falling on your sword right away. Run with events a bit, see if an out becomes apparent, and try and get your problem cured.
But the second your GM makes you roll a will save to avoid murdering someone (Which I expect will happen, given what you've said about this DM), that's when you take out your blade and stab yourself in the heart, since you can no longer be trusted to be in full control of your actions.
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People really tend to get trigger-happy with accusations if something is not up to their taste.
Play the game and if at the end of it you don't feel happy about it or you feel as you have been punished for nothing, talk with the GM about it. He is a human being, just like you. He makes mistakes also.
GM_Beernorg wrote: If Trump wins...you just might very soon... :)
Doc Deth does give sound advice quite often I have noticed.
(well played there sir!)
Politics in other forums, please ...
GM Rednal wrote: (Note: I don't mean the "Constantly pay a bunch of money" kind of Atonement. I mean the "Generally goes to a church every time they enter town as a minor roleplaying note" type of Atonement. It's not something that should really interrupt you or anything like that. And I agree that how classes with things like alignment restrictions will be run should be agreed on ahead of time. XD) And to a lesser extent Inquisitors ;)
Just wanted to say that I've had good experiences with similar corruptions in my campaign, and there have been plenty good solutions offered as well. Keep us posted, I'm curious to see what happens next!
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Hmm, yeah, what op said in this thread it sounds like his GM just has bad ideas about how paladins work and has idea he thinks that is cool that is way too debilitating in practice(martial that can't heal himself at all is kinda doomed :'D) ._. Still pretty dickish though, but doesn't seem like they are out to screw player just for sake of screwing with them.
Yeah the GM doesn't seem like the kind to pick on someone they don't like. BUT they clearly have different ideas about alignment and codes than the typical group has. And that combined with this railroad style curse situation it could be quite challenging playing a paladin here.
I say don't even search for a source of the corruption, just Yolo hunt bad guys until you die. If you die pure of heart you win imo.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Azten wrote: Just die, showing you are above the effect of this corruption. Self-Perfection over your Affliction. I have been contemplating following the Eighth Act of Iomedae:
The Eighth Act
Convincing the graveknight known as the Black Prince to throw himself upon his sword as punishment for his evil is considered Iomedae's Eighth Act. This righteous suicide redeemed the undead knight's soul and allowed him to be judged in the Halls of Aroden.
If I need to give my life to save others, then I readily make that sacrifice. Well, this would follow a certain inverted symmetry. Somewhat similar to the destruction of the black blade actually.
Give your life to save another, rather than take a life to safe your own.
Get judged.
Get resurrected.
I think you were on the right track.
Tyinyk wrote: I had a DM who did something similar to this to me, once. He wasn't a dick, but he GMed like a dick, which sounds like what you're dealing with.
My feeling from your two threads is that your GM really just wants to tell "His" story, not the groups, and screw you if you don't want to just ride the rails.
I wouldn't recommend falling on your sword right away. Run with events a bit, see if an out becomes apparent, and try and get your problem cured.
But the second your GM makes you roll a will save to avoid murdering someone (Which I expect will happen, given what you've said about this DM), that's when you take out your blade and stab yourself in the heart, since you can no longer be trusted to be in full control of your actions.
Telling a planned story and running your players through it, having them interact with it, is a legitimate way to run a game. The problem is this particular example, where "his story" happens to be screwing over the players' characters at a base level.
I don't think anyone has addressed this yet, but given the fiendish nature of the Paladin's "corruption," dying from the curse might cause his soul to be taken directly to one of the Lower Planes or, even worse, directly into a fiend's nasty claws. Things CAN and DO slip behind Pharasma's back. I think the ritual suicide (and I mean literally do it as a ritual on Hallowed ground, or at least within a Magic Circle Against Evil) invoking the 8th Act of Iomedae is probably a much better bet if it comes right down to the last few hit points; not right away, of course, but as the last option. True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle could probably bring you back if your friends could afford it and wanted to, though.
The Shaman's corruption (almost certainly becoming a Lich without the Rejuvenation ability) would legitimately damn their soul if they are destroyed while undead, but you should be able to reverse it by destroying them and then reviving them with True Resurrection/Wish/Miracle. That said, helping the Shaman as much as possible before you can't any longer is probably the more Paladin-y thing to do.
Bloodrealm wrote: Tyinyk wrote: I had a DM who did something similar to this to me, once. He wasn't a dick, but he GMed like a dick, which sounds like what you're dealing with.
My feeling from your two threads is that your GM really just wants to tell "His" story, not the groups, and screw you if you don't want to just ride the rails.
I wouldn't recommend falling on your sword right away. Run with events a bit, see if an out becomes apparent, and try and get your problem cured.
But the second your GM makes you roll a will save to avoid murdering someone (Which I expect will happen, given what you've said about this DM), that's when you take out your blade and stab yourself in the heart, since you can no longer be trusted to be in full control of your actions.
Telling a planned story and running your players through it, having them interact with it, is a legitimate way to run a game. The problem is this particular example, where "his story" happens to be screwing over the players' characters at a base level.
I don't think anyone has addressed this yet, but given the fiendish nature of the Paladin's "corruption," dying from the curse might cause his soul to be taken directly to one of the Lower Planes or, even worse, directly into a fiend's nasty claws. Things CAN and DO slip behind Pharasma's back. I think the ritual suicide (and I mean literally do it as a ritual on Hallowed ground, or at least within a Magic Circle Against Evil) invoking the 8th Act of Iomedae is probably a much better bet if it comes right down to the last few hit points; not right away, of course, but as the last option. True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle could probably bring you back if your friends could afford it and wanted to, though.
The Shaman's corruption (almost certainly becoming a Lich without the Rejuvenation ability) would legitimately damn their soul if they are destroyed while... I've died by the hands of Frost Giants since the first time I was killed. I was brought back with Breath of Life with no problem. Granted, the corruption wasn't as extreme then as it is now, but there is a slight chance I can be raised if I die again.
I'll help the Shaman if we find a lead on his corruption before mine. But like you said, if I get to the last seconds of my ticking clock, I have to prepare this ritual suicide. Or if I have to start making WILL saves to stop myself from killing innocent people.
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My regular group is getting a little thin these days due to illnesses and work commitments. We are down to 4 from our usual 7-8 and happen to be in Edmonton. Drop me a PM if you are in the vicinity and have any interest in a change of scenery.
Madokar Valortouched wrote: I've died by the hands of Frost Giants since the first time I was killed. I was brought back with Breath of Life with no problem. Granted, the corruption wasn't as extreme then as it is now, but there is a slight chance I can be raised if I die again. I was referring to if you die because of the corruption reducing your maximum hit points to zero, not just die in general while under the effects of it.
Bloodrealm wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: I've died by the hands of Frost Giants since the first time I was killed. I was brought back with Breath of Life with no problem. Granted, the corruption wasn't as extreme then as it is now, but there is a slight chance I can be raised if I die again. I was referring to if you die because of the corruption reducing your maximum hit points to zero, not just die in general while under the effects of it. Hmm. There's a scenario I didn't think of. Though I think if I held off not killing innocents long enough to die of the corruption, then what claim could a fiend have on my soul?
Madokar Valortouched wrote: Vidmaster7 wrote: I would just try to find a cure till I died never give in to the murder thing. Literally just think of it instead as a curse that is slowly killing you and don't even consider the other way. That is the proper paladin thing to do. Which is what I consider doing if this falling on my sword thing doesn't work. Except you can't die. You'll likely end up unconscious eventually(but see my Diehard suggestions earlier) though.
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Azten wrote: Madokar Valortouched wrote: Vidmaster7 wrote: I would just try to find a cure till I died never give in to the murder thing. Literally just think of it instead as a curse that is slowly killing you and don't even consider the other way. That is the proper paladin thing to do. Which is what I consider doing if this falling on my sword thing doesn't work. Except you can't die. You'll likely end up unconscious eventually(but see my Diehard suggestions earlier) though. I just realized what you're getting at! Since it's reducing his maximum hit points and not his Constitution, he can't die from it. The worst that can happen to him is becoming Disabled.
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