What would the future look like if Pathfinder magic and monsters suddenly appeared on modern-day Earth?

[Bandw2]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Wizards create infinite free energy for human convenience.

Later: Earth destroyed as the universe exceeds its stable energy density.

we still do not have sufficient techniques to turn electricity into thrust, meaning we're probably stuck on this planet, we'd cook ourselves if we didn't find a way to get rid of excess energy.

[John Napier 698]

Bandw2 wrote:

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^I don't think Heat Metal gets THAT hot. But it sure would be nice to have one of those rods in my apartment to save on electric bills in the winter (would need a way to turn it off and preferably reverse its function during the summer . . .).

you only need a temperature of a few kelvin to make a generator use that temperature difference... besides it's hot enough to burn you, that's plenty enough heat to use.

True, but it doesn't produce enough current to be useful, unless you connect a great many such generators in parallel. Even then, it will be Direct Current, which limits the distance that the power could be transmitted.

[John Napier 698]

Bandw2 wrote:

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Wizards create infinite free energy for human convenience.

Later: Earth destroyed as the universe exceeds its stable energy density.

we still do not have sufficient techniques to turn electricity into thrust, meaning we're probably stuck on this planet, we'd cook ourselves if we didn't find a way to get rid of excess energy.

Not necessarily. Rather than using the electricity a generator produces, you could always use the permanently heated rods to heat up the reaction mass. This would be similar in operation to the old concept of a Nuclear Thermal Rocket. Except that the exhaust would be completely non-radioactive.

[The Sideromancer]

mmm, siccatite convection turbines.

[John Napier 698]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Wizards create infinite free energy for human convenience.

Later: Earth destroyed as the universe exceeds its stable energy density.

Dump all the excess heat into the Nine Hells. They'd probably appreciate the gift.

[John Napier 698]

Damn, but I love this thread. It's almost as fun as the threads discussing Classic Traveller. And, who says gamers aren't intelligent or well educated?

[Tacticslion]

Delightful wrote:

Wonder how many people would try to take the Starstone Test in our world? That alone could be horrible or awesome.

Tacticslion wrote:

I imagine it would be similar to - including a similar success rate to - the Golarion Test'. We shouldn't have too much to worry about in that case.

UnArcaneElection wrote:

Think again. What if a major corporation, national intelligence agency, terrorist group, organized crime empire, theocratic organization, or some other unsavory entity got their hands on a Starstone?

There is no terror they could create beyond what a literal god of greed, secrets, murder, and poison could do.

Besides, the success rate indicates a pretty good, as far as return investments.

Beyond that, "a" Starstone isn't really a thing - there's only one, and it's created by a unique set of circumstances; and even more it's extremely difficult to get to.

Ignoring all of that, let's imagine what would happen: what it would be like, if they actually go their hands on something. My posit: it wouldn't be all that much. The Starstone tests those who would be worthy. But even if they managed to find a candidate who passed:

- If a major corporation? An Abadar or Asmodeus.

- If a national intelligence agency? Roidira or the Green Mother.

- If a terrorist group? Gyrona or Zyphus.

- If an organized crime empire? A Norgorber or Lao Shu Po.

- If a theocratic organization? This could go in pretty much any direction at all - no inherent problem here. "Oh, wow, there really is a god!" isn't that shocking a reveal when you have a number already granting spells.

- If some other unsavory entity? Take a look for yourself.

[John Napier 698]

Continual flame, however, could be used to generate electricity. Just surround it with solar cells. Granted, the current would be low, but there is the advantage of not having to deal with excess heat.

[thejeff]

Aren't there spells/items that generate cold? Can't they just counter the excess heat?

I mean we've pretty much told Conservation of Energy to take a flying leap, so why worry about pesky thermodynamics.

[David knott 242]

Bandw2 wrote:

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Wizards create infinite free energy for human convenience.

Later: Earth destroyed as the universe exceeds its stable energy density.

we still do not have sufficient techniques to turn electricity into thrust, meaning we're probably stuck on this planet, we'd cook ourselves if we didn't find a way to get rid of excess energy.

Couldn't magic be used for that purpose too?

[Tiny Coffee Golem]

Bandw2 wrote:

Kerney wrote:

I like the idea that all pathfinder players get the abilities of the character they are most emotionally attached to as part of this change.

I'd have an Eidolon.

does this mean i'd be a schrodinger's wizard?

Me too

Edit: Do you have any idea how fast I'd make my own demiplane? So fast.

[Claxon]

I don't know if it's been mentioned...

Nothing changes. We have so many guns, and since they target touch AC, we kill everything before it becomes a threat. Status quo maintained.

[John Napier 698]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

^I don't think Heat Metal gets THAT hot. But it sure would be nice to have one of those rods in my apartment to save on electric bills in the winter (would need a way to turn it off and preferably reverse its function during the summer . . .).

It took a while to think of this, but what you describe would be possible. Take two pieces of metal, one permanently heated and the other permanently chilled. Use those two pieces to power a thermoelectric generator to provide current to two fans. One fan will blow excess heat and the other will chill ( read "cool" ) a room. A thermostat with low power requirements will control the fans.

Also, Permanent Chill Metal rods could "power" refrigerators without the use of electricity or refrigerants.

[UnArcaneElection]

Umbral Reaver wrote:

Wizards create infinite free energy for human convenience.

Later: Earth destroyed as the universe exceeds its stable energy density.

Slightly later than that: Rest of Universe breathes a great collective sigh of relief. "Good thing this happened before they figured out cold magic, or we'd really be in trouble soon".

[Goth Guru]

A time gate spell that reaches 6 months into the future. Cooling during the summer, warming during the winter. Put in a permanent arch it will allow future mayor to warn of natural disasters.

[John Napier 698]

Goth Guru wrote:

A time gate spell that reaches 6 months into the future. Cooling during the summer, warming during the winter. Put in a permanent arch it will allow future mayor to warn of natural disasters.

Not strictly necessary. Simply put heat exchangers on Mercury, and run the pipes through massive Ring Gates. Mercury is close enough to the Sun to be tidally-locked to it.

[Goblin_Priest]

1 word: nukes

The government has no anti-magic protection, and even if it started getting them at the same pace as others got magic capacities, if it's current performances are of any indicator, there will be much left to be desired and ill-intended people will most certainly get access to them. Be it the US', Russia's, Pakistan, or anyone else's, nukes are gonna get in the wrong hands.

Or, you know, not even that. An illusion of nukes heading from Russia to the US, and/or vice versa, would also be quite capable of provoking legitimate governments from deploying the real things. Perhaps an illusion of nukes heading from North Korea and/or Iran would be more believable than Russia or the US randomly going full berserk though. :P

[The Sideromancer]

Goblin_Priest wrote:

1 word: nukes

The government has no anti-magic protection, and even if it started getting them at the same pace as others got magic capacities, if it's current performances are of any indicator, there will be much left to be desired and ill-intended people will most certainly get access to them. Be it the US', Russia's, Pakistan, or anyone else's, nukes are gonna get in the wrong hands.

Or, you know, not even that. An illusion of nukes heading from Russia to the US, and/or vice versa, would also be quite capable of provoking legitimate governments from deploying the real things. Perhaps an illusion of nukes heading from North Korea and/or Iran would be more believable than Russia or the US randomly going full berserk though. :P

How are you getting around the range limit? I doubt the defense systems are tuned for identifying only within 800' of the launch site? For that matter, major image lacks the (object) tag, so the systems will just ignore it.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Mercury is close enough to the Sun to be tidally-locked to it.

Unfortunately not.

[John Napier 698]

SilvercatMoonpaw wrote:

John Napier 698 wrote:

Mercury is close enough to the Sun to be tidally-locked to it.

Unfortunately not.

My mistake. I wasn't aware of that wiki page. This proves that I don't know everything. :)

[LuniasM]

Assuming we all start with class levels roughly equal to ourr assumed current levels we could handle most skeletons, goblins, and zombies. However, most rural areas aren't equipped to deal with stuff like bulettes or demons, and unless we also gain knowledge about our new powers we'd be toast. Cities and military bases would fare much better due to better-equipped law enforcement.

This all changes depending on our starting levels and, most importantly, whether we know how to use our new powers. If we start at level 1 we're all screwed. If we know nothing we're all screwed. I doubt that we'd start at 1, although I also doubt we'd magically gain knowledge. In any case, expect it to be exactly like low levels in Pathfinder but with widespread access to guns, transportation, and long-distance communication and information tech. We're well-equipped to react and retaliate but not so much in thebshort term. Humanity would survive, but initial losses would be catastrophic. If the monsters happen to be smarter, such as a lich or a really old dragon... GG.

I have to give the edge to the monsters. Humanity only has the advantage in a very specific scenario. If we had help from Good-aligned creatures it might even things out a bit, but expect the first few years to be catastrophic. If we survive and learn enough to cast higher-level spells AND our internet doesn't go down I think we'd win.

[thejeff]

LuniasM wrote:

Assuming we all start with class levels roughly equal to ourr assumed current levels we could handle most skeletons, goblins, and zombies. However, most rural areas aren't equipped to deal with stuff like bulettes or demons, and unless we also gain knowledge about our new powers we'd be toast. Cities and military bases would fare much better due to better-equipped law enforcement.

This all changes depending on our starting levels and, most importantly, whether we know how to use our new powers. If we start at level 1 we're all screwed. If we know nothing we're all screwed. I doubt that we'd start at 1, although I also doubt we'd magically gain knowledge. In any case, expect it to be exactly like low levels in Pathfinder but with widespread access to guns, transportation, and long-distance communication and information tech. We're well-equipped to react and retaliate but not so much in thebshort term. Humanity would survive, but initial losses would be catastrophic. If the monsters happen to be smarter, such as a lich or a really old dragon... GG.

I have to give the edge to the monsters. Humanity only has the advantage in a very specific scenario. If we had help from Good-aligned creatures it might even things out a bit, but expect the first few years to be catastrophic. If we survive and learn enough to cast higher-level spells AND our internet doesn't go down I think we'd win.

As I said early on, the slaughter in the first few weeks would be horrible, but if we're in a D&D/PF style world, that's exactly what would make high level characters out of pretty much every survivor. In a matter of weeks - months at the longest.

By that time, the nastier of the survivors would probably be the worst problem. Classed NPC villains.

[MMCJawa]

I don't have it on hand, but when earth was visited in the Baba Yaga AP the trench fighters working with Rasputin were I think level 6 or something.

So a trained well prepared military force would probably not start at level one, but may have a CR range of 5-10.

[quibblemuch]

Finally, "murder-hobo" would be an acceptable career ambition. And they laughed at me when that was my Strong Interest Inventory result...

[Wei Ji the Learner]

"Death Vagrant" is so much classier.

[UnArcaneElection]

Goblin_Priest wrote:

1 word: nukes

{. . .}
Or, you know, not even that. An illusion of nukes heading from Russia to the US, and/or vice versa, would also be quite capable of provoking legitimate governments from deploying the real things. Perhaps an illusion of nukes heading from North Korea and/or Iran would be more believable than Russia or the US randomly going full berserk though. :P

WarGames . . . .

[Bwang]

Kerney wrote:

I like the idea that all pathfinder players get the abilities of the character they are most emotionally attached to as part of this change.

I'd have an Eidolon.

Now that's scary. I'd either have a Eberron Changeling Wizard with delusions of discovering ancient magics of a (non-existent) passed Changeling empire or an insane Wizard who hunts dragons!

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

"Death Vagrant" is so much classier.

Or, freelance troubleshooter.

Q: What do troubleshooters do?

A: We shoot trouble, with very large guns.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

"Death Vagrant" is so much classier.

Or, freelance troubleshooter.

Q: What do troubleshooters do?

A: We shoot trouble, with very large guns.

Terminology could be confusing, what with cavaliers being a thing...

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

John Napier 698 wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

"Death Vagrant" is so much classier.

Or, freelance troubleshooter.

Q: What do troubleshooters do?

A: We shoot trouble, with very large guns.

Terminology could be confusing, what with cavaliers being a thing...

True, but being an "Independent Mercenary" will pay the bills.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

If I remember correctly there was this rpg called "TORG" which was a good answer to this question.

It's relevant because for a Pathfinder "invasion" of our world, it would like TORG, have to be accompanied by some serious changes in how physics works.

This throws a bit of a kink into thejeff's rosy scenario, as such a mixing would probably be the fall of our civilisation due to the disruption of commerce and the breakdown of the power grid... which is a pretty delicate house of cards.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

John Napier 698 wrote:

True, but being an "Independent Mercenary" will pay the bills.

I wonder if there'd be a return of 'trade unions/guilds' based on adventuring skills.

"Yep, we're Adventurers Bonded 27. We represent the interests of adventurers for this here county, inasmuch as some unscrupulous rulers have tried to take advantage of the hard work folks do without providing proper pay."

EDIT: Come to think of it, 'salvage' would probably be a part of any pay compensation package...

[John Napier 698]

MMCJawa wrote:

I don't have it on hand, but when earth was visited in the Baba Yaga AP the trench fighters working with Rasputin were I think level 6 or something.

So a trained well prepared military force would probably not start at level one, but may have a CR range of 5-10.

Or, possibly even higher, given the state of the world as it is currently. Also, since we're talking Pathfinder, does that mean that those of us who play become "expert" sages?

"No General. That's a Balor, Your rifles won't touch it, but tank rounds will."

[Wei Ji the Learner]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Or, possibly even higher, given the state of the world as it is currently. Also, since we're talking Pathfinder, does that mean that those of us who play become "expert" sages?

"No General. That's a Balor, Your rifles won't touch it, but tank rounds will."

"You'll want to have the Chaplain bless them for full effectiveness before firing, though."

New MBT role created: Weapon Blessing Technician

[John Napier 698]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

If I remember correctly there was this rpg called "TORG" which was a good answer to this question.

It's relevant because for a Pathfinder "invasion" of our world, it would like TORG, have to be accompanied by some serious changes in how physics works.

This throws a bit of a kink into thejeff's rosy scenario, as such a mixing would probably be the fall of our civilisation due to the disruption of commerce and the breakdown of the power grid... which is a pretty delicate house of cards.

Wow, TORG. "Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time."

( An extra 300 XP for knowing who said that quote and the movie it came from. Come on, step up. )

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

John Napier 698 wrote:

Or, possibly even higher, given the state of the world as it is currently. Also, since we're talking Pathfinder, does that mean that those of us who play become "expert" sages?

"No General. That's a Balor, Your rifles won't touch it, but tank rounds will."

"You'll want to have the Chaplain bless them for full effectiveness before firing, though."

New MBT role created: Weapon Blessing Technician

It's not necessary to have a new MOS for that. Just have the unit's Cleric / Chaplain bless the rounds as needed, or cast Align weapon.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

John Napier 698 wrote:

Or, possibly even higher, given the state of the world as it is currently. Also, since we're talking Pathfinder, does that mean that those of us who play become "expert" sages?

"No General. That's a Balor, Your rifles won't touch it, but tank rounds will."

"You'll want to have the Chaplain bless them for full effectiveness before firing, though."

New MBT role created: Weapon Blessing Technician

It's not necessary to have a new MOS for that. Just have the unit's Cleric / Chaplain bless the rounds as needed, or cast Align weapon.

Just because there's a role doesn't mean there has to be an entire Speciality around it. I could see some Chaplains suddenly going "Whaaat? I'm on the front lines?"

Followed by "Well, if *insert deity of choice* wills it..."

EDIT: Wonder if there'd be some discipline problems in some militaries with the possible advent of the Caydenite faith, between drinking and the extolling of personal freedom (from a bunch of folks that signed up for, among other things, preserving the freedom of others...)

[John Napier 698]

True enough. I wonder how cold iron rounds would hold up if fired from a modern Assault Rifle?

[John Napier 698]

They'd probably be organized into their on units. "Yes, Mr. President. They're a bunch of oddballs with discipline problems, but they get the job done."

I hate my keyboard, always dropping the w's and the s's. Today I'll get a new one, now that today's payday.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

They'd probably tumble a lot, as a guess? It wouldn't take a *lot* of Cold Iron, I don't think. It'd take some creative rolling techniques but I think it could be done with modern technology, even.

ie, that's if we're doing the traditional 'Cold' Iron that's never seen the heat of a forge

[The Sideromancer]

The bullets aren't going to be reused. Just blanch them on the assembly line.

[John Napier 698]

The Sideromancer wrote:

The bullets aren't going to be reused. Just blanch them on the assembly line.

I meant the possibility of them shattering while still in the barrel. Very detrimental to both the weapon and the soldier.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Just had this 'Die Hard 2' vision where someone comes in and unloads a full clip into someone who is immune to 'non-special' materials and the protagonist going "SEE? THEY'RE STANDARD ROUNDS!"

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

They'd probably tumble a lot, as a guess? It wouldn't take a *lot* of Cold Iron, I don't think. It'd take some creative rolling techniques but I think it could be done with modern technology, even.

ie, that's if we're doing the traditional 'Cold' Iron that's never seen the heat of a forge

Just had a thought. Replace the Depleted Uranium penetrator rods with Cold Iron. I served three years in an Armored Cavalry unit in the '80s. The rods are simply mechanically connected with the rest of the round, that is if it's the modern APFS sabot round being used.

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

Just had this 'Die Hard 2' vision where someone comes in and unloads a full clip into someone who is immune to 'non-special' materials and the protagonist going "SEE? THEY'RE STANDARD ROUNDS!"

OHH! What an action movie that would make! :)

[Wei Ji the Learner]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Just had a thought. Replace the Depleted Uranium penetrator rods with Cold Iron. I served three years in an Armored Cavalry unit in the '80s. The rods are simply mechanically connected with the rest of the round, that is if it's the modern APFS sabot round being used.

Would probably be 'cleaner' for the environment and safer for folks to handle (well, except for anybody who develops a fae allergy to them..)

Wouldn't be too hard to swap them out for tungsten, silver, etc. and pretty quickly, too (compared to making them completely from scratch?)

[John Napier 698]

Given the current direction of this thread, please allow me to channel my inner Monty Python. "Bringeth forth the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch." *cough, cough* I feel better, now. Thank you.

[The Sideromancer]

John Napier 698 wrote:

Given the current direction of this thread, please allow me to channel my inner Monty Python. "Bringeth forth the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch." *cough, cough* I feel better, now. Thank you.

Disposable, High-damage weapons might not be a bad way to add DR penetration to the average soldier. I mean, how many golems is one guy expected to fight before restocking?

[John Napier 698]

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

John Napier 698 wrote:

Just had a thought. Replace the Depleted Uranium penetrator rods with Cold Iron. I served three years in an Armored Cavalry unit in the '80s. The rods are simply mechanically connected with the rest of the round, that is if it's the modern APFS sabot round being used.

Would probably be 'cleaner' for the environment and safer for folks to handle (well, except for anybody who develops a fae allergy to them..)

Wouldn't be too hard to swap them out for tungsten, silver, etc. and pretty quickly, too (compared to making them completely from scratch?)

Perhaps we could pour Mercury into a mold, then cast Polymorph any Object to turn the Mercury into whatever special material is needed at the time.

[Wei Ji the Learner]

Yes, but the HHGoA is a one-off artifact, you'd need something that you could replicate a bit easier and possibly mass-produce.

And you're welcome.