I apologize if some of these are obvious / clearly stated in the rulebook, I'm just returning from a long break from the game and I seem to have forgotten some things.
Invoking traits
1) This is new to me, but it's probably just new terminology for an older concept. I see some cards that say "if a bane invokes X trait", this just means if the bane has that trait listed on their card, right? Is there any other way for a bane to invoke a trait?
2) I also see cards that say "if the check invokes X trait". This one seems a little more complex. Does the check invoke traits that are on both sides of the equation? E.g. you're going up against a monster with the Outsider trait by playing a weapon that has the Cold trait, does the check invoke Outsider and Cold traits?
Adding skills
Pard, Ally
Traits: Animal
Recharge this card to add your Charisma skill to your combat check.
(snip)
3) Assume you played a Basic Strength Melee weapon to initially determine the skill used in Combat, and you don't have the Melee skill. The check is still a Strength Melee Basic Combat check because all the traits on the card played to determine the skill are now the "types" of that check. You play Pard on this check. Given that your Charisma is d10+1, I'm assuming you add 1d10+1 to your Combat check. But does that check now invoke the Charisma and Animal traits? And is it now a Strength Melee Basic Animal Charisma Combat check, so could you play a card that affected "Charisma checks"?
Triggers, Examines, and Explorations
Aunty, Ally
Recharge this card to add your Wisdom skill to your check that invokes the Cold or Undead trait.Discard this card to examine the top 3 cards of your location deck, then you may explore your location.
4) Ok, so you discard Aunty to examine the top 3 cards of your location. Now let’s say the first 2 of those 3 cards have triggers that say “When you examine this card, encounter it”. You encounter them in the order they were in the deck. Let’s say you handily acquire/defeat them, do you still get to use your exploration from playing Aunty?
5) What if one of those cards say something along the lines of “if defeated/acquired you may immediately explore your location” or you have some other character power that lets you explore after defeating/acquiring something? Do you get to use that even though you encountered the card via a trigger? Does Aunty's additional exploration still happen after your free explore?
1. A bane can also invoke a trait if it deals only damage of that type. There are a few cards that do this, for example, dealing only Fire damage even though the card itself doesn't have the Fire trait.
2. A check invokes a trait if the check has that trait or if it is against a card that has that trait. In your example, the check invokes both the Cold and Outsider trait.
You'll find those explained in a "new" box on page 9 of the MM Ruelbook.
3. No. If you add a skill to the check, it doesn't give the check that skill as a trait.
You'll find that on page 11 of the MM Rulebook, right column, 2nd paragraph, last 2 sentences. It was added to S&S by this FAQ.
4. Yup. You didn't explore, so you still need to do that. Note that some of the examine then explore cards say "may explore" making it optional.
5. I don't think I've seen anything like that, but the idea that you can't gain 2 explorations at once seems to mean that you couldn't get to do both.
Hawkmoon to the rescue
So for 3), does it then follow that all traits on that check are checks of that type?
From the FAQ you referenced
...for example, revealing the weapon Dragon Pistol for your combat check adds the Firearm, Ranged, Piercing, and Elite traits to the check. (This isn’t the same as giving you a skill; for example, playing the spell Fireblade adds the Divine trait to your check, but it does not give you the Divine skill.)...
Would it be correct, in that example, to say it was a Ranged Firearm Piercing Elite Combat check?
Yes, that is correct.
The "invokes" rule for those without their rulebook -- note at least in my copy this is in a "NEW" box on p. 14 --
NEW: INVOKES
A check invokes a trait if it has or is against a card that has that trait.
A card invokes a trait if it has that trait.
A bane also invokes a trait if it deals only damage of the type that matches that trait.
An observation on checks invoking traits... it helps me remember the rule, maybe it will help others:
In S&S and the first wave of class decks, several characters got the "Finesse Melee" power:
For your check that has or is against a card that has the Finesse trait, gain the skill Melee: Dexterity + 2
The intention being that those characters gain Melee both for combat checks using a Finesse weapon (the check has the trait), and for acquiring Finesse weapons (the check to acquire is against a card that has the trait).
"Invoke" was introduced to cover exactly these two situations:
For your check that invokes the Finesse trait, gain the skill Melee: Dexterity + 2
Same power. Less wordy.
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Still, seems weird that a check against a bane that invokes Trait X, does not in itself invoke Trait X..
Still, seems weird that a check against a bane that invokes Trait X, does not in itself invoke Trait X..
I simplified it to myself like this:
I am hitting a dragon, which breathes fire, with a sword
Is the dragon fiery? - yes he is, he breathes fire
Is my action of hitting the dragon fiery - no it is not
I am hitting a fire elemental, which is made of fire, with a sword
Is the elemental fiery? - yes he is
Is my action of hitting the elemental fiery - yes it is, he is on fire
I see very little difference between those two examples - to me, hitting something that's "on fire" vs hitting something that "breathes fire" isn't really any different. It seems like a strange distinction to me and creates unnecessary complication. (Between a check invoking something and the bane you are fighting invoking something but not the check)
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In one case you are attacking a fire. In the other your are attacking something that could produce fire. Ask a fireman it will tell you these are very very different cases.
Still, seems weird that a check against a bane that invokes Trait X, does not in itself invoke Trait X..I simplified it to myself like this:
I am hitting a dragon, which breathes fire, with a sword
Is the dragon fiery? - yes he is, he breathes fire
Is my action of hitting the dragon fiery - no it is notI am hitting a fire elemental, which is made of fire, with a sword
Is the elemental fiery? - yes he is
Is my action of hitting the elemental fiery - yes it is, he is on fire
and then
I am hitting a skeleton with a fire sword
Is the skeleton fiery? - nope
Is my action of hitting the skeleton fiery - yup
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If another card makes a bane deal only one type of damage, is that bane invoking that trait? For example, if a location's power says, "All damage dealt at this location is fire damage." does that mean every bane I encounter at that location that deals damage is invoking the fire trait?
Nice one Cax. I was on my way to make a direct answer but on second thoughts, not so obvious.
I would have said no because the bane by itself doesn't deal only fire damage. But then...
You deserve an access to the weekly can'o'worms contest.
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I'd say that the bane would be invoking the Fire trait at such a location. The rule simply says "A bane also invokes a trait if it deals only damage of the type that matches that trait." If a location says "All damage is fire damage", then that means the bane only does fire damage while at that location. As such, the bane would invoke the Fire trait.
I'd say that the bane would be invoking the Fire trait at such a location. The rule simply says "A bane also invokes a trait if it deals only damage of the type that matches that trait." If a location says "All damage is fire damage", then that means the bane only does fire damage while at that location. As such, the bane would invoke the Fire trait.
I see it the same way. bledge
I'd say the same.
OK seems consensus so I was right to hold my answer.
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Bottom line, it's not because a check "invokes" a trait that it "has" that trait.
So an immunity prevents "adding" a trait to a check but not "invoking" it.
Chief Technical Officer
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I'm not sure, but I think you may also be using a more restrictive concept of immunity.
The rules for immunity:
If the card you’re encountering states that it is immune to a particular trait, during the encounter, characters may not play cards that have the specified trait or use powers that would add that trait to the check.
So you can't play cards that have the Electricity trait during your encounter with the Shock Toad, and you cannot use powers that would add the Electricity trait to your checks against it. And that's all it means.
I'm a little bit confused about new rules. Got some questions:
TRIGGERS
1. Some cards with TRIGGER trait state: "When you examine me, encounter me" - and that's clear. But some don't - for example: Quicksand Bunyip or Trapped Sarcophagus just kick you in the balls with no warning! Are these cards are encountered when examined? Can I evade such examined cards with powers like "you may evade your encounter"? Or, like Olenjack's power - "you may recharge an ally to evade a bane" - so the bane does not to be encountered to be evaded?
2. If such cards are not encountered, can I play cards/powers that are restricted from playing during encounter? Like, can I use Zetha's power to banish a monster from hand to move to other location?
3. When examining two or more bottom cards of a deck, what's an order of examining? should I check from top to bottom, or should I examine bottom first, and then second from bottom?
INVOKING CARDS
4. What happens when I fight monster in the Abyssal River? Monster who normally deals only combat damage, now deals only poison damage. Does it becomes a bane that invokes poison? Does he become a CARD that invokes poison even if it does not have "poison" trait printed on them?
5. Does every BANE that deals only one type of damage (like Brimorak) is considered a CARD that invokes a trait, even when it does not that trait printed or inherited in other way?
1. If it doesn't say you're encountering it, you're not encountering it. ("Cards Do What They Say and Don't Do What They Don't Say.") This applies to Trigger powers just like it does to other powers. For example, you're not encountering a Blessing someone plays to give you a die or a Blizzard that deals you a point of Cold damage as it goes away.
2. You could. Note that moving isn't going to prevent the Trigger effect in many cases, but it could help with some.
3. We do it from the bottom up, for what it's worth.
4. Yes, if it only deals Poison damage it Invokes Poison.
5. Yes. Banes are cards that are Villains, Henchmen, Monsters, or Barriers; that card Invokes a trait if it only does one type of damage.
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Parody is mostly correct, just going to expand on some of the answers:
1. You can only evade something if you are encountering it. Since you aren't encountering the trigger card, you can't evade it.
2. Going to disagree with Parody for this one. The only powers you can play in reaction to examining a trigger are "when you examine" powers or powers that directly relate to what the trigger is doing (for example, if it deals you damage, you can play an armor to reduce that damage). Everything else you might wish to play must wait until after the trigger is finished resolving, including your move power you quoted.
3. The rule is to examine the cards in the order you found them, so if starting from the bottom of the deck, you find the bottommost card before the penultimate one.
5. Remember that a monster deals Combat damage should you fail the check to defeat, unless the card specifies otherwise. So a monster that does before you act electricity damage but then doesn't specify otherwise for other damage does not invoke the electricity trait. If it does BYA electricity damage and also says "all damage dealt by this card is electricity damage" then it invokes the trait. Some villains and henchmen are also monsters and use the above logic as well.
2. Going to disagree with Parody for this one. The only powers you can play in reaction to examining a trigger are "when you examine" powers or powers that directly relate to what the trigger is doing (for example, if it deals you damage, you can play an armor to reduce that damage). Everything else you might wish to play must wait until after the trigger is finished resolving, including your move power you quoted.
I agree with you; I assumed that it was going to be relevant and left this unsaid. Sorry about that.
FWIW, as Amaryllis I've used the Cape of Escape to get away from all sorts of things. :)
2. Going to disagree with Parody for this one. The only powers you can play in reaction to examining a trigger are "when you examine" powers or powers that directly relate to what the trigger is doing (for example, if it deals you damage, you can play an armor to reduce that damage). Everything else you might wish to play must wait until after the trigger is finished resolving, including your move power you quoted.I agree with you; I assumed that it was going to be relevant and left this unsaid. Sorry about that.
FWIW, as Amaryllis I've used the Cape of Escape to get away from all sorts of things. :)
Ah, ok. There are indeed times where moving would be a relevant response to a trigger, and would be valid to use. I just took your response as a general one and disagreed that you could move (or play any arbitrary power) in general.
However, one caveat. Finding a power where moving is relevant and you are able to use a move power is rare. An example (hypothetical) power "When you examine this card, all characters at your location take 1 Combat damage." would make a movement power relevant. However, you have no opportunity to play most movement powers because you would need to have some way to use that power as a "when you examine" as well. Otherwise, Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else tells you that you need to finish examining the card (including resolving its when examined power) before you can do something else (play a card or use a power to move). Since when examined powers are activated in the middle of examining cards, you do not have free reign to use any arbitrary power, even if using it could have an impact, because the rules do not normally allow you to play cards or use powers in the middle of examining a card.
... her spell just put the fire trait on the enemy so this means I get to now add two dice from the Blessing...
Just to be clear - your spell adds the Fire trait to the *check*, not to the *bane* (so, for example, if you have a card that affect "a bane that invokes Fire" - you wouldn't be able to use it)