Should i take a step back?


Advice


So currently playing a level 1 Inspired swash/empiricist investigator I'm about to hit level 3 and my original plan was to keep going investigator. Part of me is wondering if I should keep going swash until he gets to level 5 swash. then back to investigator. Just a bit worried since he is currently more of a generalist.

Unnamed Hero
Male half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
NG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +4; Senses low-light vision; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 16 (2 HD; 1d8+1d10+2)
Fort +3, Ref +9, Will +4; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee mwk rapier +7 (1d6+4/18-20)
Special Attacks deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (4)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st—long arm[ACG], long arm[ACG]
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 7
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 15
Feats Fencing Grace, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device), Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits forlorn, student of philosophy
Skills Acrobatics +5, Bluff +3 (+8 to lie (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +3 (+8 to persuade others but not to gather information (as a result of using Int instead of Cha)), Disable Device +8, Knowledge (arcana) +7, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7, Knowledge (religion) +7, Linguistics +7, Perception +8, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Ancient Osiriani, Common, Elven, Goblin, Infernal, Orc
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), elf blood, inspiration (3/day), inspired panache, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear wand of cure light wounds, wand of shield (50 charges), alchemist's fire (3); Other Gear chain shirt, buckler, mwk rapier, cloak of resistance +1, alchemy crafting kit[APG], backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, ink, inkpen, investigator starting formula book, masterwork thieves' tools, torch (10), trail rations (5), waterskin, 1,878 gp, 1 cp
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Deeds
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Fencing Grace Use Dexterity on rapier damage rolls
Inspiration (+1d6, 3/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in dim light, distinguishing color and detail.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.


Not helpful, but I have to ask: how did you get almost to 3rd level without naming the character?


What's your goal? What type of campaign?

Looks like a Sherlock to me.


Fuzzy-Wuzzy wrote:
Not helpful, but I have to ask: how did you get almost to 3rd level without naming the character?

Ever played "Gothic"? :)


One level in swash is sufficient; anything you gain from more levels isn't going to scale well. OTOH investigator stuff does keep scaling. Go with investigator.


no, 4 levels of swash < 4 levels of investigator.
investigator is giving you +2 to attack and damage rolls, better and longer extracts, most skills, more inspiration.

swash gives you +2 to attack and maybe +6 damage


This is for PFS...wanted to make a character that could fit into any group and go. He does have a name, I just erased it... what you dont like "the man with no name" concept? :) I agree, kinda based him off of Sherlock...err well the guy that Sherlock was inspired by :) One thing I'm a tad worried about is if his damage will add up. 5 levels would give me some really nice boosts...but yeah trying to figure if one way would be better than another


if you are after DMG then you really do need to go Swash. They get really strong deff skills, and scale their dmg very well, however though i have yet to play one, the investigator seems to really require dedication to the class to see the rewards. The sawsh is very dippable for lvl 1, so really wont hurt your build much for an investigator.

If you want to do dmg, stick swash.
If you want to do the cool stuff the investigator does, you need to commit to the class, but accept your dmg will tapper off.


I like the idea of going straight investigator from here on out...plan to kinda plan out a bit. But honestly last adventure I kinda hit a bit of a wall. How would you play a character with 7 cha but a +9 diplomacy? The gm was asking "what does your character say" honestly I've realized I'm not a roleplayer in that regard...not that I'm antisocial...I spend all day at work talking... but just not sure how much I want to go that route... (almost to the point of starting over or if the retraining might be worth it


One way I would describe a 7 Cha with +9 diplomacy as an introvert who, through training and study, knows what kind of key words, phrases, lines of reasoning will guide someone to see things the Investigator's way.

The Investigator might normally be a reserved person that people don't pay much attention to, but he knows the words and tones that will make an impression. It's just something he has to turn on an apply, unlike a gregarious extrovert that people might gravitate towards naturally.


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ekibus wrote:
I like the idea of going straight investigator from here on out...plan to kinda plan out a bit. But honestly last adventure I kinda hit a bit of a wall. How would you play a character with 7 cha but a +9 diplomacy? The gm was asking "what does your character say" honestly I've realized I'm not a roleplayer in that regard...not that I'm antisocial...I spend all day at work talking... but just not sure how much I want to go that route... (almost to the point of starting over or if the retraining might be worth it

I have a similar character pretend he/she is in debate club. If you start with the phrases:

"Here is my opening argument...your rebuttal?"
"Let's keep this simple..."
"Let's go over the facts..."
"I'm going to explain why this is in your best interest..."
"Let's me lay out the argument for you helping us/ us helping you..."
"Here is my theory..."

I have found writing a few opening phrases of a character reminds me how they interact with the world.


As a general rule a point of accuracy is worth more than a point of damage.

Swashbuckler gives 1 point of accuracy ever 4 levels from higher BAB and 1 point of damage per level starting at level 3 from precise strike.

Investigator gives 1 point of accuracy and 1 point of damage per 2 levels starting at level 4 from studied combat. The action economy disadvantage of studied combat becomes trivial with Quick Study and neither it nor precise strike are per diem limited.

The Swashbuckler damage advantage is on a worse trade than one handed power attack even before you account for losing skills and a 6 level pseudocasting progression.


I would go investigator from here on out. It brings a lot more to the table.


If you want to be a better dip for a more combat oriented build. I have taken a one level dip in drunken brute unchained barbarian. Consume potions as a move action, more damage and temp HP. You also get access to furious weapons which helps damage and over coming DR. It's no better then skipping it and you burn a feat on extra rage but it is a pretty fun alternative to the classic swashgator.

You do have levels when you wish you have higher level extracts but that is how lose aversion biases us.


@Malkin Than you for the line idea. As for another class, I'm a bit hesitant. Going a second dip really hurts the progression, not to mention some gms get kinda testy on the whole extract v potions...furious weapon is pretty nice but I'm already trying to balance a weapon with too many things i need. (answering, inspired, keen, and fortuitous.)

Plan so far:
Level 3..pick up combat reflexes (for multiple parry and riposte, not to mention while using longarm)

Level 4: mutagen for dex 30 mins +4 dex and +2 ac

Level 5: really big one, Gain studied combat (+2 hit and damage) while I could spend a feat on quick study I'm leaning towards weapon trick for stylish riposte (person misses me by 5 once per day I can make a attack of opp against them) Also I would buy the most expensive heroism potion I could find for Alchemical allocation. Also my favored class bonus kicks in so i get +1 to my inspiration rolls

Level 6 is of course quick study

Level 7 would be for deific obedience (Irori) for +4 to all knowledge rolls

So without too much gear I would have about +15 to knowledge checks, would be about +18 to hit and 1D6+9 damage...the damage feels low but on the flip side I'm hoping to see a couple free shots in there too


Investigator with mutagen and quick study does damage.
I've had people say my solo-classed str investigator must be a barbarian when I was saying my attack and damage rolls.


Here are a few of my thought on some of the points your brought up. The extra dip is defiantly not for everybody.

I only use the ability to drink as a move action for potions (never extracts) but getting a potion of reduce person (carried in hand) and an extract first round helps a lot.

There are a lot of enchantments for weapons for this build it is hard to decide which is best. Here was my rationale it may help or in may not. Ultimately, I moves away form Inspired because it was two few rounds a day for me. I also skipped answering because with heroism, reduce person, mutagen, rage and furious I was parrying on 3s most of the time. I think, though I don't have the character with me, I had a max of +27 to hit at level 8.

Remember for combat reflexes you can only get the parry part multiple times per round as the attack is an immediate action. It's not worth the panache to parry without the attack as you lose the chance to replenish the panache. It is great if you have long arm up regularly because you get extra attacks.

Get quick study at level 5 and use alchemical allocation + heroism liberally.

If you want to skip deific obedience a nice combination of Clear Ears, Heighten Awareness, and Pathfinder Chronicles will keep you knowledge skills competitive.

Consider Versatile Weapon (feat), and late game Bane Baldric (equipment). Bane Baldric it's limited rounds which I don't like but it can get through DR and really bring the hurt.


Thing is if I take quick study at 5 I would have to use a normal feat to get it (level 6 I get the bonus investigator feat) I really like stylish riposte but is it worth it when it can only be used against a person once?

What is nice is the furious enchant works off the spell rage.. might be something to consider.


I would only use furious with a dip otherwise take a hard pass. You will burn through too many actions and extracts buffing with it and the rage extract. Stylish riposte is OK. One warning. Certain ability in pathfinder lose value in difficult fights. This is one of them. Your hardest encounters will be the ones where this power has the least effect because of high attack bonuses. What it does do, is get you to that encounter with more resources. I would not take it but it's fun, thematic and not bad.

Your build gets you to your goal a little quicker so it a good plan. I found that at level 8 I had to start planing for buying celestial armor or my ac would stall out. So have a plan to keep that AC as competitive as possible which is not that hard on this build but want to plan a head. Getting bosses to miss by more than 5 reliably can be pretty hard.


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ekibus wrote:
I like the idea of going straight investigator from here on out...plan to kinda plan out a bit. But honestly last adventure I kinda hit a bit of a wall. How would you play a character with 7 cha but a +9 diplomacy? The gm was asking "what does your character say" honestly I've realized I'm not a roleplayer in that regard...not that I'm antisocial...I spend all day at work talking... but just not sure how much I want to go that route... (almost to the point of starting over or if the retraining might be worth it

Think Columbo - looks scruffy, gives the impression of being bumbling and distracted but the insightful questions are hidden in the rambling patter.

Or Sherlock as a model - low CHA manifests as being condescending and patronising to people he considers intellectual inferiors


One thing I've been tossing around is to retrain the swashbuckler and investigator and one trait, to go the daring champion cavalier. I would have less flexibility but would deal a lot more damage. Then again I could keep the swashbuckler and go straight until level 5. Just worried damage will always be down

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