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If you have 4 people to build your own party, it should not be too hard to make at through a level 1 session, as long as you don't have 2 other people with level 3 or 4 show up to force the group to play up.
Something simple you could do would be to play a beginner game with stock characters, like the scenario We Be Goblins. After victory, apply the 2 prestige points (2pp) to buy your "real" characters some items: masterwork armor or weapon; wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing.
We ran this party at GenCon from starting with level 1 and 1+1, finishing into level 2 and 2+1:
Sorcerer: Ray of Frost, Magic Missile for damage; Read Magic, Detect Magic, Spellcraft to be able to use items found; Diplomacy. Had a Wand of Infernal Healing (from an earlier 2pp monster game), and basically nothing else.
Swashbuckler: Full BAB; Chain Shirt + Rapier. Had not even spent her 2pp
Swashbuckler + Bard: near Full BAB; Chain Shirt + Rapier; all knowledge skills can be rolled (Bard).
Cleric: don't recall what spells were memorized, but used mostly healing + channeling, in combat, when people took damage twice (i.e. if anyone was 0 or negative, or if people were down 5+ hp).
Added party members from strangers at our tables:
Wizard who lent me wand of Mage Armor after I had a run-in with a swarm of Stirges; some other character I forgot. The game gave us some special material weapons, and we kept 2 of the 4, but we should have retained them all. Silly Swashbucklers wanted to keep with their rapiers, until they saw the DR on the boss at the end. My sorceress gave up her special longspear to a one swashbuckler (I just cast my spells); the cleric gave up her special staff to the other swashbuckler(she kept casting her spells/channeling).
An Inquisitor and a Fighter for one game of mostly combat and some sneaking.
A Magus for one game of mostly social combat (our Bard carried a lot of that one being able to roll any knowledge, even untrained; we all had social/knowledge rolls to make each round).
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See if your local game store [or online availability] has these:
Scenarios that use pregenerated Kobolds by design:
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9cu6?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-6-99-True-Dr agons-of-Absalom [I played this and had a bunch of fun]
Scenarios that use pregenerated Goblins by design:
"We Be Goblins" series
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9j4r?Pathfinder-Module-We-B4-Goblins
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8j5w?Pathfinder-Module-We-Be-Goblins
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xc3?Pathfinder-Module-We-Be-Goblins-Too
http://paizo.com/products/btpy9c20?Pathfinder-Module-We-Be-Goblins-Free
Other recommendations I just read online:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder/comments/1wx73p/best_early_level_pfs_sc enarios/
"We Be Goblins, Confirmation, Master of the Fallen Fortress are all able to be replayed.
My favorite played scenario is The Stolen Heir and least favorite is The Darkest Vengence (it's deadly)."
Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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I typed up a lot and Paizo at it. :(
I dont think this is going anywhere. this is now basically baiting me.
Hard core fighting enemies are too difficult for me and the people I play with. I was just trying to find out if its normal to face such powerful enemies at the beginning of characters' lives and how fair modules really are.
I am still looking for suggestions to "low combat" modules.
PFS is at its best when there's a lot of fighting, as most players neglect their skillchecks. There have been a few scenarios where you barely have any fights (Library of the Lion, for example), but every time they make such a scenario, they get lots of complaints how it's too boring or too skill-intensive (people complain about not being able to make a DC25 check at level 5).
If you're having trouble, try requesting season 0 and 1 scenarios. They're made under different rules and have generally weaker enemies (there are some exceptions), so you should be able to make it through most of them pretty easily, even with a difficult party.You don't need a full-BAB class to deal with all the "hard core fighting enemies," anyone with 3/4 BAB and a STR of 18 (sometimes 16, even) will suffice. You'll barely notice the difference in to-hit at low-level, and the lower BAB will only matter for Power Attack. Most three-quarter BAB classes have ways to compensate for their low to-hit with spells that boost them (Inquisitor and Warpriest are basically self-buffing engines, Alchemists hit against touch AC, Skalds and Bards can boost themselves and their entire team). Half-BAB (Witch, Wizard, Sorcerer, Arcanist) classes compensate for that in raw spellpower, but it just takes a while before they get a comfortable amount of spell slots. That's why most of them also carry a crossbow so they're at least capable of doing some damage. A low-level mook will have about 14-15 AC, so with a DEX of 14 there's a 40% of hitting someone (non-cover, non-melee). Not ideal, but better than doing nothing at all.
Could I see your build, to see how you're statted? As said, there's some cookie cutter builds, but that doesn't mean you have to stick to it 100%. It does mean that there's some must-haves in order to survive. Looking at your aliases, I see a lot of characters with decent stat spreads, so it's not like you're dumping key stats. The only standout is the dead 10 CON Monk.
Also, could you post what classes other people have played at your tables? That could give me an indication of how skewed your party composition is.
If it read as if I am saying Full BAB classes are the only useful ones, that wasnt my intention. Animal Companions would be VERY useful right now. I would actually like to see characters with special abiltities, but those abilities are almost useless at this point as they are limited use so people either use them up before the end or hold back on them making it pointless to have them. Last game an end boss just passed spell saves against my Arcanist.
PFS games dont really allow sleeping or "tactical napping" like a homebrew, so casting is the weakest element of a party right now.
The pre-gens are usually used only if a player doesnt have their own character. Pre-gens tend to be extreme or mediocre. Many of them have strength dumped so their combat options are limited to spellcasting which are weak at the level you can use them.
The Ranger is so bad that after playing it I immediately worked on making something better. It might be "cookie cutter" but i can make a level 1 Fighter with better melee, ranged, speed, precise shot, and if Human, Rapid Shot too. I actually did just that afterwards but started playing around with the Slayer and Casters.
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We are Level 1 fighting against ghouls and demons, often using these sub-par pre-gens.
I asked some GMs of their opinion, and it was that the Modules ARE designed for the upper level range. So a 1-2 is designed for level 2 optimized characters.
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Suggestions in terms of ease:
1. Play the monster games to get to level 2. Your hp cushion is much better there, and you can get a wand of cure light wounds or infernal healing. Even if you cannot cast those spells, it is very likely someone else can. A level 1 Paladin or Ranger has no spells, but can still use the wand of CLW. A level 1 Sorcerer or Wizard does not have to have infernal healing selected for her spells to use the wand.
2. Get the Strategy Guide. It has 2 or 3 basic builds for each class, and a good list of spells and items for selection. Each non-caster should have at least a melee and a ranged weapon. The characters with +1 BAB can switch weapons during a move action in case you had a rapier equipped but are facing a flying creature and need a bow out. Each character should have a way to see in the dark (e.g. sunrods or special vision).
3. Avoid being hit. Stay together until you can get flanking on the enemy. Use 5 foot steps when in range of the opponents attacks. Use Withdrawal if there are multiple opponents in your face, not a move action. You can double-move and only face attacks of opportunity after the first 5 feet. Then come back to combat (hopefully after getting healed).
4. Casters need something to do once their level 1+ spells are gone. Whether that is a light crossbow (which is a simple weapon that a sorceress or wizard or cleric can use) or sling (for druid) or a cantrip with damage, it should not be hard to buy one with your starting money at 150 gp.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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PFS games dont really allow sleeping or "tactical napping" like a homebrew, so casting is the weakest element of a party right now.
Most scenarios are designed to last for a day and the designers keep that in mind when designing encounters. I rarely blow through all my resources in a day, even at low-level. If you're playing a caster, you don't have much at low-level, so you really need to conserve your stuff. If you're out of resources halfway through, either you're careless with them, or you're forced through party composition. As I said before, I'd like to know your general party composition before I can really give any advice.
Isn't the rest of the group also sick of struggling with scenarios? If so, that might cause them to change characters at some point.
The Ranger is so bad that after playing it I immediately worked on making something better. It might be "cookie cutter" but i can make a level 1 Fighter with better melee, ranged, speed, precise shot, and if Human, Rapid Shot too. I actually did just that afterwards but started playing around with the Slayer and Casters.
The Ranger class in general, or the Ranger pregen? Harsk is notoriously bad and should probably be ignored. Ranger itself is pretty good, but you need to know what you're doing. I personally like the Slayer much more. A lot less flashy, but it's really good at what it does, much better than a Fighter, IMHO.
We are Level 1 fighting against ghouls and demons, often using these sub-par pre-gens.
I asked some GMs of their opinion, and it was that the Modules ARE designed for the upper level range. So a 1-2 is designed for level 2 optimized characters.
If you've played one scenario with your character you have the gold to buy weapons against those pesky enemies, and it sounds like you should at least have that, unless you keep switching characters. Of those four scenarios you listed, really only Hall of the Flesh Eaters should you bring powerful characters, the rest of the scenarios are easily solved with a healthy party composition. Other monsters are pretty tough, but you have the advantage of numbers on them.
I'd still say have a good look at party composition. Sounds like that's more of an issue than the scenarios themselves. Ask again if people would like to change. I've looked through your post history and it seems like you're constantly victimised. Sometimes that's because of arbitrary reasons, but I know from personal experience it might also be because of a bad reaction on the vicimtised's part. Try apologising and asking again if people want to change characters, but bring it differently, or ask them why they don't want to change, then bring up that if no one brings a decent fighter, things will continue as they are. Looks like you tried your part with making new characters, surely others can't be so selfish they don't even want to consider it?
And again, how old and experienced is your playgroup? Maybe they're just young kids that are too stubborn to do things any other way. They just need to learn from experience.
Thank you for mentioning the Wand of Infernal Healing. Its more cost efficient the cure light wounds.
Honestly i think the scale is just too great between some characters classes in early game practicality.
Any time I pick up a Warrior I do great.
Some people bring dexterity classes and those have lousy damage before they get all the feats.
Casters, well, some of them can be good at fighting like the Druid or Cleric but Sorcerers, Wizards and the like cant do much even with a crossbow as they need multiple feats to remove penalties.
Its pretty much a choice of people trying to coast through games using early game weak classes and hoping the module isnt combat heavy. In some instances that has worked fine. In others theyve been almost useless, the classes not the people. I picked an Arcanist for Temple of Empyreal Enlignment and the only rolls I succeeded at were skill checks.
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Infernal Healing:
You may want this info from the Pathfinder Society FAQ [given statements from 2 of my 3 GMs).
http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq
http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq#v5748eaic9qy1
Does casting evil spells cause an alignment infraction?
Casting an evil spell is not an alignment infraction in and of itself, as long as it doesn't violate any codes, tenets of faith, or other such issues. Committing an evil act outside of casting the spell, such as using an evil spell to torture an innocent NPC for information or the like is an alignment infraction.
For example: using infernal healing to heal party members is not an evil act.
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Rangers v. Fighters:
Rangers can have an Animal Companion at level 1 by getting the feat Boon Companion. They are superior to a Fighter in terms of skills (6 points instead of 2, and they have Perception and Heal), can use wands of Ranger spells at level 1, and get Favored Enemy (1st) and Favored Terrain (3rd). Fighters have to get to 4th for Weapon Specialization and to 5th to get Weapon Training (though they do get an extra feat for the +1 of Weapon Focus at 1st).
Joe, you need to check some facts, man. rangers cant get an animal companion at level 1 with boon companion. they CAN bring the animal companion they get at level 4 up to a druids level.
you're also listing all of the rangers upsides, but don't mention the pretty wicked things fighters can now do with armor/weapon training, plus more than just one extra feat. Fighters have become greatly more versatile lately, something to be aware of.
Off-topic. I think my first planned Pathfinder class was a Ranger. I took Harsk the per-generated one into a battle against devils and did abysmally.
It showed off alot of faults with that character and with ranged combat. For one at level 4 you have a pet, which is a level 1 badger and basically useless. Really need to either build up melee abiltities or have several ranged feats like precise Shot up as early as level or dont bother trying to make ranged a primary combat plan.
Note: Boon Companion can only be taken if you actually have an animal companion or familiar available. It boosts the level or your companion(or rather reduces the penalty). It doesnt work unless youve actually reached the required level. Only classes i know of that get an animal companion at level 1 are Druid, Hunter, and Summoner. Other classes can get them, usually at level 4.
Technically any class can get an animal companion from a limited list by choosing a a certain feat tree.
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And thus begins the snowball roll of crunch over fun and why PFS builds tend to be cookie cutter. It breeds certain must haves because that's what everyone else is doing because that's what the content needs because people are power gamers already or at least that's how the logic goes.That's not true, even in the slightest. PFS is very, very easy - it's simple for anyone with a passing knowledge of the system to build characters that will trivialize a good chunk of the encounters, and if you know Pathfinder well, you can quite easily build characters that could solo the whole scenario. PFS is a GREAT place to try new ideas, precisely because it's easy - if you want to make things that aren't power-gamey, they work well in PFS. Look at the pregens. Really look at them - rogues with no dex to damage and 12 STR. The pregens can do basically any PFS scenario they're in-tier for. That's the level of optimization that's expected.
If you think that the pregens are 'cookie cutter' inspiring levels of optimization, something is seriously wrong in your games.
Many of the early season low level mods are easy, but not all the scenarios are easy or trivial. I have seen many scenarios of 3-7 or higher that are downright brutal and almost guarantee a tpk if you don't have the right spells, equipment, or class abilities.
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Off-topic. I think my first planned Pathfinder class was a Ranger. I took Harsk the per-generated one into a battle against devils and did abysmally.
It showed off alot of faults with that character and with ranged combat. For one at level 4 you have a pet, which is a level 1 badger and basically useless. Really need to either build up melee abiltities or have several ranged feats like precise Shot up as early as level or dont bother trying to make ranged a primary combat plan.
Note: Boon Companion can only be taken if you actually have an animal companion or familiar available. It boosts the level or your companion(or rather reduces the penalty). It doesnt work unless youve actually reached the required level. Only classes i know of that get an animal companion at level 1 are Druid, Hunter, and Summoner. Other classes can get them, usually at level 4.
Technically any class can get an animal companion from a limited list by choosing a a certain feat tree.
Yes. The pregens suck for the most part. Yes animal companions are pretty good with a nice boost to action economy. A hunter and a summoner would be a good team. Your best bet if you want to be very useful and fill multiple roles is to play a hybrid class: magus, skald, slayer, shaman, inquisitor and warpriest can all fill two or three roles on their own. Also do your research and optimize the crap out of your characters at every level. Follow the hand guides for classes on these forums. Help other players do the same, and you should see better results.
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Many of the early season low level mods are easy, but not all the scenarios are easy or trivial. I have seen many scenarios of 3-7 or higher that are downright brutal and almost guarantee a tpk if you don't have the right spells, equipment, or class abilities.And thus begins the snowball roll of crunch over fun and why PFS builds tend to be cookie cutter. It breeds certain must haves because that's what everyone else is doing because that's what the content needs because people are power gamers already or at least that's how the logic goes.That's not true, even in the slightest. PFS is very, very easy - it's simple for anyone with a passing knowledge of the system to build characters that will trivialize a good chunk of the encounters, and if you know Pathfinder well, you can quite easily build characters that could solo the whole scenario. PFS is a GREAT place to try new ideas, precisely because it's easy - if you want to make things that aren't power-gamey, they work well in PFS. Look at the pregens. Really look at them - rogues with no dex to damage and 12 STR. The pregens can do basically any PFS scenario they're in-tier for. That's the level of optimization that's expected.
If you think that the pregens are 'cookie cutter' inspiring levels of optimization, something is seriously wrong in your games.
That's definitely correct - I was referring to 1-5s, should have said so. Though by the time you get to the truly brutal ones, you typically have the resources to return :)
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Joe, you need to check some facts, man. rangers cant get an animal companion at level 1 with boon companion. they CAN bring the animal companion they get at level 4 up to a druids level.
you're also listing all of the rangers upsides, but don't mention the pretty wicked things fighters can now do with armor/weapon training, plus more than just one extra feat. Fighters have become greatly more versatile lately, something to be aware of.
OK. I was wrong on the animal companion at level 1, but it is a nice option at level 4.
Reading fighters armor and weapon training, it looks like those do not come online until level 3 and 5 respectively (though I didn't look to see if all archetypes have those same limitations). It does make Fighters more playable, but still does not overcome the fighter having just 1 good save at base, 2 skill points at level 1 (which is where I think the OP is coming from), inability to use any wands (they have no spell list and will not have a good UMD since all fighters appear to dump charisma). At higher levels, yes, the combined armor and weapon training, plus the more flexible feats can get the fighter increased damage compared to a ranger, but a lot depends on the favored enemy & terrain the ranger selects, and the ranger combat style and spells do even out with bonus feats and these new fighter options in my opinion.
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Rangers can be good, but require more work to be effective than fighters. With a fighter, you just pick a weapon and pick all the feats that boost it's damage and accuracy, with a ranger, you have to consider your animal companion, spells, favored enemy etc. They are one of the few classes that can do switch hitting well, since they can ignore pre-reqs for the feats in their combat style.
Rangers are pretty bad in Module gameplay. Different enemies, terrains, and multiple abilities that take several levels at least to be able to use handicap the class.
You start out with BAB 1 and 6+ skill points.
Fighter on the other hand starts out with an extra feat.
Hybrid classes are better as they dont have to plan out for tier 9 casting so your stats can be more focused on melee, especially strength 18.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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That's definitely correct - I was referring to 1-5s, should have said so. Though by the time you get to the truly brutal ones, you typically have the resources to return :)Many of the early season low level mods are easy, but not all the scenarios are easy or trivial. I have seen many scenarios of 3-7 or higher that are downright brutal and almost guarantee a tpk if you don't have the right spells, equipment, or class abilities.And thus begins the snowball roll of crunch over fun and why PFS builds tend to be cookie cutter. It breeds certain must haves because that's what everyone else is doing because that's what the content needs because people are power gamers already or at least that's how the logic goes.That's not true, even in the slightest. PFS is very, very easy - it's simple for anyone with a passing knowledge of the system to build characters that will trivialize a good chunk of the encounters, and if you know Pathfinder well, you can quite easily build characters that could solo the whole scenario. PFS is a GREAT place to try new ideas, precisely because it's easy - if you want to make things that aren't power-gamey, they work well in PFS. Look at the pregens. Really look at them - rogues with no dex to damage and 12 STR. The pregens can do basically any PFS scenario they're in-tier for. That's the level of optimization that's expected.
If you think that the pregens are 'cookie cutter' inspiring levels of optimization, something is seriously wrong in your games.
No you don't. The most brutal scenario I've seen is structured in a way that you will never have the resources to reciprocate. Simply because the only characters that will be able to fight it head on is in seeker tier.
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Fighters have become greatly more versatile lately, something to be aware of.
The weapon masters handbook may have fixed this a little, but I think the stuff that would fix it is banned from pfs. As it stands the ranger is strictly better for PFS. The ranger has skills, the critter, and two good saves as opposed to the fighters 1, and most importantly he gets the big feat tricks well within the PFS level range that the fighter has to wait for his last three scenarios for. A few pluses to hit and damage are nice, but don't stand up to the archers improved precise shot (which you WILL need, PFS is crawling with melee putting their buts in your firing line) , the shield master has no offhand penalties and gets a cheap +5 weapon, the two weapon fighter doesn't need dex....unless you're going for a fighting style that the ranger can't you're better off with the ranger.
Yes, "the fighter" is versatile but you're not making "the fighter" you're making one character. Usually there's an option other than the fighter to make a better character.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Fighters have become greatly more versatile lately, something to be aware of.The weapon masters handbook may have fixed this a little, but I think the stuff that would fix it is banned from pfs. As it stands the ranger is strictly better for PFS. The ranger has skills, the critter, and two good saves as opposed to the fighters 1, and most importantly he gets the big feat tricks well within the PFS level range that the fighter has to wait for his last three scenarios for. A few pluses to hit and damage are nice, but don't stand up to the archers improved precise shot (which you WILL need, PFS is crawling with melee putting their buts in your firing line) , the shield master has no offhand penalties and gets a cheap +5 weapon, the two weapon fighter doesn't need dex....unless you're going for a fighting style that the ranger can't you're better off with the ranger.
Yes, "the fighter" is versatile but you're not making "the fighter" you're making one character. Usually there's an option other than the fighter to make a better character.
And that is why you make a Brawler that multiclasses into Inquisitor for a level of versatility that is better than either.
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Rangers are pretty bad in Module gameplay. Different enemies, terrains, and multiple abilities that take several levels at least to be able to use handicap the class.
You start out with BAB 1 and 6+ skill points.
Fighter on the other hand starts out with an extra feat.
Hybrid classes are better as they don't have to plan out for tier 9 casting so your stats can be more focused on melee, especially strength 18.
For flat out melee combat power a fighter does have the edge early on. It's hard to beat weapon focus and power attack at first level, but the ranger has more versatility which is what really matters in the long run. A ranger has better skills and saves, possibly an animal companion that can be made decent with one feat, and can get a whole feat chain without having the prereqs for it. Rangers also have a few spells that are pretty good. Absolutely don't judge the ranger on the crappy pregen Harsk. He has really poor weapon and feat choices. Slayer, swashbuckler, and brawler also beat the fighter with versatility and skills. There isn't a lot of need for the fighter since the advanced class guide came out.
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Minor nitpick. Can you stop referring to what you are playing as "modules"? What you are referring to are "scenarios", the $3.99-$4.99 printable games. Modules are much longer and allow you to gain 3XP for playing the entire thing. The former are designed for PFS, the latter are adapted for PFS.
It took me a page to figure out you were complaining about the ones designed for PFS as opposed to actual "modules".
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That's the subtier 4-5 encounter anyways. It's an appropriate enemy for that subtier.
If you're playing a Level 1 in such a subtier, then it doesn't matter if you're a squishy Wizard or a tanky Fighter; you need to be careful.
That encounter wasn't designed for you.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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To get a better impression of what a ranger can be like, take a look at the slayer pregen, especially level 4 and 7.
Zadim takes advantage of ignoring dexterity prerequisites so that he can use 2WF with a Strength build. He's got good to-hit and attacks often. With decent Strength behind it the hits also count for something. As a result he also threatens critical hits often which is entertaining. He's got a decent gear loadout with useful potions. His skills are quite good, enough to actually add something to a normal party. He's a bit weak against enemies with DR due to his "thousand cuts" approach, but if necessary he could pick up a free club or quarterstaff and use 2H damage to cut through DR (or someone loans him some cheap cold iron kukris). The big advantage of his Strength build is that he can actually shift to using a different weapon without too much trouble.
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Off-topic. I think my first planned Pathfinder class was a Ranger. I took Harsk the per-generated one into a battle against devils and did abysmally.
The pre-gens are intentionally sub-par so that even your first custom character will be equal or superior to them. (It would suck to play a pre-gen, and then after making your first real character they're significantly weaker.)
However, Harsk is known to be especially terrible. Don't use him to judge the class as a whole.
Though of note: Unlike a druid's, a ranger's animal companion isn't really for brawling in combat. It's for out of combat awesomeness. A hawk to fly above and scout for the party etc.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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As I said, PFS scenarios are written with the lowest common denominator in mind. The fact that you're having trouble suggests to me you're all pretty inexperienced and/or have a very wonky party composition. The first is remedied by time, and perhaps people make the characters your party needs when they're sick of struggling all the time. Your suggestion seems reasonable, perhaps it's the way in which you said it?
No the annoying part is that its not actually true. Every once in a while you'll have scenarios that spike so hard in difficultly that its just painful. Im entirely serious when I say this but Bonekeep 3 is easier than certain scenarios that come up.
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I feel like arcane and divine casters are being a little underrepresented on this thread. Personally, it is my firm belief that no party composition is complete without either caster.
Do they underperform in some harder-then-average modules? Sometimes. No doubt. But bringing a caster with no martial capasity (even flanking) to a low level module is a mistake on the person's behalf, not on the class. But think about the following situations:
- Knowledge checks. What heppens if no one in the party can identify the DR/Bludgening undead, or DR/Cold Iron fey?
- Swarms. You better thank that person who brought their Flame Oracle with burning hands when that CR 3 swarm comes up. Specially since they also purchased some flasks of Alchemist Fire and gave them to the barbarian in the group.
- Incoporeals? That's fine - because they either prepared Magic Weapon, or bought an Oil of Magic Weapon/Holy Weapon Balm for their melee/ranged martial.
Yes. Low level modules, or just modules in general, are, particularly harder then normal scenarios. That's fine. Because we are adventurers, going on deadly missions for the good of Golarion.
Yes. Party composition matters. But if everyone on your gaming table is playing their pathfinder's efficiently and effectively, encounters become a lot more managable.
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Last quick thing on over-tuned bosses. Yes. I'm sure we've all played modules where bosses deal more then the theoretical HP pool of character PCs on one swing. But a lot of those times, those enemies do have some pretty obvious weaknesses. And yes, i'm being very general. But that martial boss that deals 1dX+13 damage at level one, probabaly has a low will save. Or, the map is designed in such a way, that PCs have the opportunity to bait him into a more favourable location - ie a tunnel where one PC might AC tank (full defence) etc. Also, these bosses are never turned to one turn kill a PC. 1d8+13 is only gonna deal 21 points of damage maximum, which is going to bring a d10 class (with a CON score above 10) to -10 HP (assuming 12 CON score with no fcb). This still gives the PCs to flank and kill the boss on the next turn (which is very doable) and for the healer to heal the fallen ally. Yes, this is assuming you all hit, but while flanking, 16-20 AC enemies are not unreasanable. If your party really has no way of dealing with an encounter, running is always a respectable outcome.
If your party really has no way of dealing with an encounter, running is always a respectable outcome.
This is the part where things get really incompatible. In my group I am apparently the only person who EVER thinks about running away.
So I really need to find modules that are easy for basically everyone.
It may be superficial, but small enemies, no swarms, no damage reduction or resistance. Id like to see Goblins and Kobolds.
Later more dangerous enemies in a linear manner. I miss out on having a homebrew week to week .
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It may be superficial, but small enemies, no swarms, no damage reduction or resistance. Id like to see Goblins and Kobolds.
Honestly, it sounds like PFS may not be a good fit for your group.
Quite a few people have given you suggestions on how to improve your tactics, gear, and build choices in order to succeed, but you seem to have completely ignored them, in-favor of continuing to ask for easier content. Swarms, DR, Energy Resistance, Spell Resistance, Incorporeality (it may not have been a word before, but it is now), Flight, Spell Immunity, etc. are all part of the system, and PFS makes liberal use of them in order to demonstrate what the system can do. There is no path from 1 to 12 which avoids all of those things.
The hard truth is that PFS is catered towards middle of the road groups, which means the low optimization and high optimization groups get under-served.
Its counter-productive to make a comment saying you dont want to help. Not every suggestion is practical. I cannot immediately enact whatever suggestions people make. Some suggestions have just been to be higher level. Other suggest I stop playing with the people available to me.
I dont think Ive ignored anyone, though if I have I apologize for it.
Instead of trying to make a perfect character that can win any scenario Ive tried to ask the general range of difficulty of modules. Ive also asked if there are scenarios more fitting to myself and my group.
This entire thread has been a summation of an ongoing problem.
The lack of adaptability allowed in the modules is a drawback, but people still use them, presumably, because they are easy to setup. Each time Ive seen a general setup or low enemies with an occasional mid-boss or elite mook battle, and a final boss that seems to be unavoidable. Battles are rarely easy and skills arent an alternative to fighting. That feels like a "cookie cutter" setup. When simple battles do show up I see players actually enjoy themselves but they are few.
So, will anyone suggest more reasonable difficulty modules that fit me and my fellow players? I asked for and intend to to suggest to the GMs in my Pathfinder Society group but I dont see any.
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Its counter-productive to make a comment saying you dont want to help. Not every suggestion is practical. I cannot immediately enact whatever suggestions people make. Some suggestions have just been to be higher level. Other suggest I stop playing with the people available to me.
I dont think Ive ignored anyone, though if I have I apologize for it.
Instead of trying to make a perfect character that can win any scenario Ive tried to ask the general range of difficulty of modules. Ive also asked if there are scenarios more fitting to myself and my group.
This entire thread has been a summation of an ongoing problem.
The lack of adaptability allowed in the modules is a drawback, but people still use them, presumably, because they are easy to setup. Each time Ive seen a general setup or low enemies with an occasional mid-boss or elite mook battle, and a final boss that seems to be unavoidable. Battles are rarely easy and skills arent an alternative to fighting. That feels like a "cookie cutter" setup. When simple battles do show up I see players actually enjoy themselves but they are few.So, will anyone suggest more reasonable difficulty modules that fit me and my fellow players? I asked for and intend to to suggest to the GMs in my Pathfinder Society group but I dont see any.
Scenarios: Usually done in 4-5 hours.
Modules: Usually done in 8-12 hours (for the smaller ones).
'Reasonable difficulty': Anything can become difficult if the dice do not fall the way you need them to.
They can also become difficult if you don't have the 'magic key' to defeating a given target (bludgeoning attacks for skeletons, etc).
Skills ARE an alternative to fighting in some cases.
It depends on the table and the GM. I've been in several scenarios where the rp of the party changed the entire direction of the game and introduced factors that were ultimately in the party's favor, and in at least a couple of cases eliminated several of the 'mook' fights, and the 'boss' fight was something completely different from what was normally 'scripted'.
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If you have trouble with scenarios when using pregens, try using the ACG pregens. They're pretty much all straight-up better than the core pregens. (The only core pregens I'd consider playing over ACG pregens are Kyra (the cleric) and Seelah (the paladin)).
And if/when you do play them, take a moment or five to look over their equipment and abilities--especially their consumables. For example the level 7 hunter has several special purpose bane arrows (use them), potions of mage armor (for her wolf), a wand of greater magic fang (for her wolf), and barkskin (great spell in general--put it on her wolf when you have time to prepare) as well as strongjaw (for the wolf). And don't forget to notice that the wolf has Power Attack. If you put those things together, her wolf companion is a bruiser who, while not the equal of a 10th level bloodrager, (as an animal companion for a 7th level character, no one could reasonably expect him to be that good) at least belongs on the same battlefield. The hunter has a number of good tricks herself.
You should look over the core pregen equipment and abilities too, but that's mostly to figure out how they are sabotaging themselves and can be improved by selling their equipment at half price and buying better stuff as soon as the scenario starts or how you can make them better by prepping different spells. (High level versions of Amiri are big offenders with regard to equipment).
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You should look over the core pregen equipment and abilities too, but that's mostly to figure out how they are sabotaging themselves and can be improved by selling their equipment at half price and buying better stuff as soon as the scenario starts or how you can make them better by prepping different spells. (High level versions of Amiri are big offenders with regard to equipment).
Unless it changed in Season 8, you aren't allowed to sell pregen equipment to buy other equipment. You are *only* allowed to sell it to clear conditions.
Generally agree with your other points, though. I'd also add that Lem (iconic bard) can be an excellent choice for some scenarios.
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It may be superficial, but small enemies, no swarms, no damage reduction or resistance. Id like to see Goblins and Kobolds.
Swarms are easy to deal with. Just grab a 5gp butterfly net and a torch.
Every combatant in the game who uses a slashing weapon should have a cold iron morningstar with their starting gear. (unless they're a finesse build - then a cold iron light mace & a dagger)
Silver is a bit annoying early, but it's rarely more than 5/ until higher levels, but mithril daggers aren't that expensive. (small mithril daggers are cheaper than small masterwork steel ones)
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Swarms are easy to deal with. Just grab a 5gp butterfly net and a torch.
It may be superficial, but small enemies, no swarms, no damage reduction or resistance. Id like to see Goblins and Kobolds.
Expect table variation on this one. I have always seen it ruled (and I agree with the ruling) that butterfly nets -- like the larger net the rules reference -- only targets single creatures, and so is useless against swarms.
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Scenarios that have relatively low (or at least easy-ish)combat, that can be played with first level characters:
Most of season 0-1 stuff is on the easier side, though much more combat-heavy than later stuff and also usually more rigid about how you can solve the scenario.
The so-called "evergreen" scenarios which can be played with 1st level characters multiple times (though not with the same ones) are generally designed to introduce new players to the game. Thus, if they have stuff like DR, they usually provide the means to overcome it in the scenario itself ("oh yeah there might be a devil in there, here take this silver dagger" and stuff like that). These scenarios are The Confirmation, Wounded Wisp, Consortium Compact and I guess you can count Master of the Fallen Fortress though that's actually a module.
The Disappeared is very skill-heavy, Mission Impossible type of scenario.
I love Night March of Kalkamedes, which is mostly about promplem-solving rather than fights, though those are still there.
Library of the Lion has been mentioned before, very skill-focused.
Scars of the Third Crusade is an investigation scenario with I think one fight that will happen no matter what.
Sun Orchid scheme has your group planning a heist, the better you succeed at the planning, the less you have to fight.
Bid for Alabastrine is about winning an auction, and apparently (haven't played it) has usually one fight.
Hope this helps a bit. Usually even first level gets easier after the first scenario (and you had some notoriously difficult ones listed), because you get approximately 500 gp and with that, buying cold iron and silver and a couple of alchemist's fires shouldn't be difficult.
Swarms have been shown to be a nightmare in games as they cannot be easily countered. In general Acid or Alchemsists's fire is the only option, but being that they are one-use items and expensive on a small budget.
Even if you do have them, its an action nightmare as you would need to have several players with readied attacks ready to thrown items as soon as any friendlies are out of the way. Touch AC is little use on swarms and 10foot range means the attacks are fairyly inaccurate, making the costs and danger worse.
Just the possible appearance of swarms makes any Kineticists very useful.
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Pathfinder has a wide variety of creatures and challenging situations. If you want to play pfs or ap's, you have to be prepared for those challenges. That is part of the game. That's just the way it is. No character can be prepared for every situation, but you should be as ready as you can be. You need to expect to fight swarms and things with dr and sr, resistances, and immunities. If you just want to fight goblins and kobolds, you might want to play a different game.
Pathfinder has a wide variety of creatures and challenging situations. If you want to play pfs or ap's, you have to be prepared for those challenges. That is part of the game. That's just the way it is. No character can be prepared for every situation, but you should be as ready as you can be. You need to expect to fight swarms and things with dr and sr, resistances, and immunities. If you just want to fight goblins and kobolds, you might want to play a different game.
Its insulting to be told to quit a game.
I havent said I never want a challenge. I could setup a different thread of "How to kill [blanks]" just to find counters for various monsters. Personally I would like to see how people make up their own campaigns and the thought processes behind them.
Youre missing the original point where these challenges arent really appropriate for where they are appearing. You may find a ghoul demon or devil a minor nuisance, but new players without proper knowledge of the game, or even with that, lack of starting game capital means options are limited so they become huge problems. Those enemies are being used in training games.
Ive learned things but those arent always practical. I cant start with an arsenal to take down devils, demons, swarms, and whatever else i may find with 150 gold pieces.
Cold-iron has become default starter equipment for my characters. Silver weapons are more expensive on any weapons lower than masterwork. Acid/achemists's fire flasks are pretty expensive to start and cost inefficient except in certain circumstances.
To anyone offering suggestions, thank you.
To anyone engaging in a rational discussion, it was interesting.
To anyone being negative, lets go our separate ways.
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As a thought exercise, I wanted to see if I could create a character who could: Handle Swarms, Hold his own in combat, and bypass Cold Iron/Silver.
So I made Bashie McHitsalot, Human Jackpot Barbarian
Initial Expenditures:
Leather Lamellar Armor (+4 Armor, +3 Dex, -2 ACP) - 60g
Greatsword - 50g
Cold Iron Morningstar - 16g
Silver Javelin - 3g
Acid Flask x2 - 20g
50' Hemp Rope - 1g
That's the whole 150 gold. I can bypass lower DRs, I've got something for swarms, I can get out of the most common pits. I am reliant on someone else in the party to heal me, but as soon as I finish my first scenario, I'll be able to purchase a Wand of CLW, and just hand that off to someone who can tap me with it as needed.
This isn't super optimal, but it's a good place to start.
(Definition, for those who don't know: A JACKPOT BARBARIAN is when you sell your mental stats down to 7 in each, giving you a starting stat line of -
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 7
WIS 7
CHA 7
before any racial modifiers. It looks like fun initially, but the second you have to roll a Will save you'll hate it. Or your party will hate it, because you just became dominated. This is a horrible idea, and should only be used in thought experiments... and at tables where people know you very well and are willing to goof around with you.)