No, as much as there is arguing is is heavily a problem of needing a answer to a problem before you know there is one. A hammer cant fix everything.
Its harsh lessons as I havent read enemy guides so I dont know every monster and their counters.
I dont know what the rest of the people in my group do, but I am looking over things. its how I found out about cold-iron, alchemic silver, multiple damages type weapons, knowledge checks to find out what a monster is, etc.
If I had a smart phone I would check things out as soon as as my in-character figures out what the monster it.
I think these problems are worse in Pathfinder Society. if you character dies you dont get another one at nearly the same level to continue the adventure. No you go back to level 1. Its also a conflict with my group as I am a pragmatist, so i would run if a situation became too difficult. Others are more casual about death which is another factor as i have to create characters with heavy survival(not the class skill) in mind as they might just let me die.
This means every scenario is "win or die".
People like Ryzoken might be dismissive of my situation or make derogatory about me and the people I play with, but I dont know if I will really fit in. I want to do so, but I am too serious for the casual people I play with. I am a Try-hard as a result.
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ChaosTicket --
If I can fit in to PFS, you can fit in. I'm here at PFS for a number of things. I'm a roleplayer. I love building support characters that make everyone else shine. Combat is not why I'm here, but I've learned to deal with it and become a valuable participant when my team needs me.
PFS is not always about melee, but it is about challenges.
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Here's why I love PFS:
1) Everyone wants to be there. Generally speaking, the party's on task and ready to game. I don't see the problems that I do at home games of disengaged players.
2) Teamwork. The very first game that I ever played in PFS was brutal. Oh, man, it was terrifying. I played Trial by Machine, a scenario that I suggest your group avoid for now. Still, I remember it fondly because of how well my group worked together to come out of that scenario alive. We were all first level. We survived, working together with the best teamwork I'd even seen in a game. Everyone contributed. I love that in PFS, groups cooperate. It's awesome.
3) Variety. We get to explore all of Golarian and the planes beyond. We get different team members every time, and different sorts of missions.
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I think that what may be going on is that your group is still learning their characters and building their system mastery. The system is not just about how optimized you are, it's also about how well each member of the team works together to cover gaps, build on strengths, and cover weaknesses.
I'm still learning the system, and I've GMed over 40 games now in PFS. What I would suggest is that you guys at level one play through the quests of Silverhex or Phantom Phenomena. Get your feet wet with an easier set of challenges, and then do Confirmation or Consortium Compact. Give yourselves a little time to learn some of the challenges that can come in a PFS game.
I also highly recommend reading Painlord's What to Expect at a PFS Table. It's a good post that covers basic consumables that can help your party survive, and equipment that most Pathfinders should have.
I sometimes check my characters against Painlord's guide. I've started carrying stuff like holy water, alchemist's fires, antiplague and antitoxin. When you need them, you really need them.
After a while though, it does get easier. PFS is like everything else -- you learn what it takes to turn a nasty fight into a survivable one. Like a scout, you become better prepared. I hope to you stick around, and that your group prospers, and that you all have a good time. Even more, I hope to someday see you at a convention where we can play at the same table.
Good luck!
Hmm
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No, as much as there is arguing is is heavily a problem of needing a answer to a problem before you know there is one. A hammer cant fix everything.
Its harsh lessons as I havent read enemy guides so I dont know every monster and their counters.
I dont know what the rest of the people in my group do, but I am looking over things. its how I found out about cold-iron, alchemic silver, multiple damages type weapons, knowledge checks to find out what a monster is, etc.
If I had a smart phone I would check things out as soon as as my in-character figures out what the monster it.
I think these problems are worse in Pathfinder Society. if you character dies you dont get another one at nearly the same level to continue the adventure. No you go back to level 1. Its also a conflict with my group as I am a pragmatist, so i would run if a situation became too difficult. Others are more casual about death which is another factor as i have to create characters with heavy survival(not the class skill) in mind as they might just let me die.
This means every scenario is "win or die".
People like Ryzoken might be dismissive of my situation or make derogatory about me and the people I play with, but I dont know if I will really fit in. I want to do so, but I am too serious for the casual people I play with. I am a Try-hard as a result.
I wasn't trying to be so dismissive, but you seem to nay say all the suggestions people have given you. They have shown you how to build low level characters that can meet low level challenges and told you some scenarios that are easier and more straight forward until you have more resources to deal with varying challenges. It sounds like you and the people you play with need to get more on board with better tactics, optimization, and learning the game better.
I am not completely rejecting your suggestions, but I did explain how they are impractical.
For example Acid and alchemist's fire is expensive for a one use item that isnt even that good against swarms. a spider swarm touch ac is 17 and due to the Acid/Fire range being so short, its close to 20 to hit.
If i had the money i would equip my characters with the Swarmbane Clasp magic item. It makes swarms into easy targets.
Other suggestions, namely relatively basic equipment are redundant as I learned many of them through trial-and-error, guides, or earlier posts in this thread. I know about having a Silver Light Mace or a Cold Iron Sickle.
And that still doesnt change that having enemies invincible to anything or having any kind of "save or die" ability at level 1 being reasonable. In a custom campaign with softer rules against starting over that might not be so bad to die. You could get a replacement character and people would be able to loot your belongings. In the most unimaginative way you would just clone your character with no loss.
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And that still doesnt change that having enemies invincible to anything or having any kind of "save or die" ability at level 1 being reasonable. In a custom campaign with softer rules against starting over that might not be so bad to die. You could get a replacement character and people would be able to loot your belongings. In the most unimaginative way you would just clone your character with no loss.
This will get much better as you have something in the party other than ALL newbies with only one character at one level. Your group will level up along with your characters.
What i guarantee will happen is some people playing regularly will have level 4-5 characters, and either the character isn't working out, the high level table will fail to go off, or they get bored of them, they'll start another character. This time they'll make a much better character have some starting equipment, and more importantly your level 3 character can go with them on an adventure and afford the alchemist flasks and wand of cure light wounds.
This process will happen a few times.
So what will happen is instead of sitting down with 4 fighters or 4 rogues, you'll have a binder full of characters and you'll be able to say "Okay, barbarian, figther, paladin.. yeah lets break out the firemage for swarms hand the paladin my wand of CLW to the paladin and lets do this."
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I am not completely rejecting your suggestions, but I did explain how they are impractical.
For example Acid and alchemist's fire is expensive for a one use item that isnt even that good against swarms. a spider swarm touch ac is 17 and due to the Acid/Fire range being so short, its close to 20 to hit.
If i had the money i would equip my characters with the Swarmbane Clasp magic item. It makes swarms into easy targets.Other suggestions, namely relatively basic equipment are redundant as I learned many of them through trial-and-error, guides, or earlier posts in this thread. I know about having a Silver Light Mace or a Cold Iron Sickle.
And that still doesnt change that having enemies invincible to anything or having any kind of "save or die" ability at level 1 being reasonable. In a custom campaign with softer rules against starting over that might not be so bad to die. You could get a replacement character and people would be able to loot your belongings. In the most unimaginative way you would just clone your character with no loss.
I am at loss to remember any 1-5 scenario that has that sort of thing at low tier. You rarely run into dr at such a low level. and it can easily be overcome with a person with a decent str and a two-handed weapon. Also, I'm not seeing save or die at that level except for the possibility of a sleep or color spray from a low level caster, which, thankfully, is pretty rare at low tiers. Perhaps you are exaggerating because you have had some frustrating experiences? Alchemist's fire and acid flasks have always been effective enough for low level characters to beat swarms in my experience, and 40 or 50 gp is well worth it for a touch attack that does ongoing damage and can deal with swarms. A lit torch can also hurt them.
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I am at loss to remember any 1-5 scenario that has that sort of thing at low tier. You rarely run into dr at such a low level. and it can easily be overcome with a person with a decent str and a two-handed weapon. Also, I'm not seeing save or die at that level except for the possibility of a sleep or color spray from a low level caster, which, thankfully, is pretty rare at low tiers. Perhaps you are exaggerating because you have had some frustrating experiences? Alchemist's fire and acid flasks have always been effective enough for low level characters to beat swarms in my experience, and 40 or 50 gp is well worth it for a touch attack that does ongoing damage and can deal with swarms. A lit torch can also hurt them.
As far as lit torches?
Expect Table Variation
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Venture-Agent, Missouri—St. Louis
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I am at loss to remember any 1-5 scenario that has that sort of thing at low tier. You rarely run into dr at such a low level. and it can easily be overcome with a person with a decent str and a two-handed weapon. Also, I'm not seeing save or die at that level except for the possibility of a sleep or color spray from a low level caster, which, thankfully, is pretty rare at low tiers. Perhaps you are exaggerating because you have had some frustrating experiences? Alchemist's fire and acid flasks have always been effective enough for low level characters to beat swarms in my experience, and 40 or 50 gp is well worth it for a touch attack that does ongoing damage and can deal with swarms. A lit torch can also hurt them.** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
As far as lit torches?
Expect Table Variation
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** spoiler omitted **
I am at loss to remember any 1-5 scenario that has that sort of thing at low tier. You rarely run into dr at such a low level. and it can easily be overcome with a person with a decent str and a two-handed weapon. Also, I'm not seeing save or die at that level except for the possibility of a sleep or color spray from a low level caster, which, thankfully, is pretty rare at low tiers. Perhaps you are exaggerating because you have had some frustrating experiences? Alchemist's fire and acid flasks have always been effective enough for low level characters to beat swarms in my experience, and 40 or 50 gp is well worth it for a touch attack that does ongoing damage and can deal with swarms. A lit torch can also hurt them.** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
As far as lit torches?
Expect Table Variation
Ok one of those has some serious dr issue, but that is an outlier. The save or die you mentioned has it's own solution present in the encounter which can be found out with an Knowledge: arcana check.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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I am at loss to remember any 1-5 scenario that has that sort of thing at low tier. You rarely run into dr at such a low level. and it can easily be overcome with a person with a decent str and a two-handed weapon. Also, I'm not seeing save or die at that level except for the possibility of a sleep or color spray from a low level caster, which, thankfully, is pretty rare at low tiers. Perhaps you are exaggerating because you have had some frustrating experiences? Alchemist's fire and acid flasks have always been effective enough for low level characters to beat swarms in my experience, and 40 or 50 gp is well worth it for a touch attack that does ongoing damage and can deal with swarms. A lit torch can also hurt them.I am not completely rejecting your suggestions, but I did explain how they are impractical.
For example Acid and alchemist's fire is expensive for a one use item that isnt even that good against swarms. a spider swarm touch ac is 17 and due to the Acid/Fire range being so short, its close to 20 to hit.
If i had the money i would equip my characters with the Swarmbane Clasp magic item. It makes swarms into easy targets.Other suggestions, namely relatively basic equipment are redundant as I learned many of them through trial-and-error, guides, or earlier posts in this thread. I know about having a Silver Light Mace or a Cold Iron Sickle.
And that still doesnt change that having enemies invincible to anything or having any kind of "save or die" ability at level 1 being reasonable. In a custom campaign with softer rules against starting over that might not be so bad to die. You could get a replacement character and people would be able to loot your belongings. In the most unimaginative way you would just clone your character with no loss.
Save vs Death is relatively common at low levels simply because a lot of the save vs suck is really just putting your character into a position to die. Paralysis is such an annoying status effect especially when the cause is something that can rip you to shreds.
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Also remember once the first alchemists fire is burning in them, oil can be used quite effectively.
For me it has been a rarity that a first level character I have built does not have at least one or two acid flasks. I am perfectly willing to sacrifice on armor (which I would be upgrading soon, anyways) or weapons (I can use an axe instead of a falchion for an adventure or two).
Really, it is about making compromises. And realizing the minimum adventuring gear. That's why The Confirmation is so cool. You get taught at before the fight.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Except that with any luck the rest of the party can distract the thing from killing you and finish it off themselves. Which is why save or suck isn't as bad as save or die. Even more so for the ones that just impose penalties rather than make you helpless.
Save vs Death is relatively common at low levels simply because a lot of the save vs suck is really just putting your character into a position to die. Paralysis is such an annoying status effect especially when the cause is something that can rip you to shreds.
Trying to save what is effectively an inert blob from being murderized is a heck of a lot harder than you give it credit for especially when scenarios actually decide to spread over encounter budget with multiple monsters. Also, most paralysis effects I've seen at low level are every one must save so in theory the entire party can just be incapable of doing anything.
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Trying to save what is effectively an inert blob from being murderized is a heck of a lot harder than you give it credit for especially when scenarios actually decide to spread over encounter budget with multiple monsters. Also, most paralysis effects I've seen at low level are every one must save so in theory the entire party can just be incapable of doing anything.Except that with any luck the rest of the party can distract the thing from killing you and finish it off themselves. Which is why save or suck isn't as bad as save or die. Even more so for the ones that just impose penalties rather than make you helpless.
Save vs Death is relatively common at low levels simply because a lot of the save vs suck is really just putting your character into a position to die. Paralysis is such an annoying status effect especially when the cause is something that can rip you to shreds.
Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once? A pack of ghouls that can attack the whole party could do that, but that would be way over cr'd for a tier 1-2 encounter.
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Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once? A pack of ghouls that can attack the whole party could do that, but that would be way over cr'd for a tier 1-2 encounter.
1 ghoul with 3 attacks can do that pretty easily. There's a few low level ghouls with class levels and enough hp to taeke outyour party if the barbariab or fighter misses a fort save.
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Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once?
Here you go. I can think of two scenarios including one of them.
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There's an early season 1-5 scenario with 3 Lacedons at Tier 1-2 and a whopping 8! at 4-5, in a relatively small area. 9 chances to paralyze divided by 4 1st level characters can make for a bad situation. 24 chances. even for 4 4-5 characters could get rough. At least they're low hitpoint monsters.
I think the majority of these situations are in earlier seasons, though, and not necessarily representative of the challenge the current scenarios pose. That has taken other forms (skill checks and advanced and occult classes) in recent years.
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1 ghoul with 3 attacks can do that pretty easily. There's a few low level ghouls with class levels and enough hp to taeke outyour party if the barbariab or fighter misses a fort save.
Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once? A pack of ghouls that can attack the whole party could do that, but that would be way over cr'd for a tier 1-2 encounter.
Well, if the ghoul is in a position to hit 3 party members with paralysis, then he is also in a position to take 3 full attacks , so he should be going down pretty quick. Of course bad rolls can happen, but there isn't much you can do about that except for a witch or shaman with fortune up all the time.
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Well, if the ghoul is in a position to hit 3 party members with paralysis, then he is also in a position to take 3 full attacks , so he should be going down pretty quick. Of course bad rolls can happen, but there isn't much you can do about that except for a witch or shaman with fortune up all the time.1 ghoul with 3 attacks can do that pretty easily. There's a few low level ghouls with class levels and enough hp to taeke outyour party if the barbariab or fighter misses a fort save.
Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once? A pack of ghouls that can attack the whole party could do that, but that would be way over cr'd for a tier 1-2 encounter.
At 1st or 2nd level, a full attack is generally a single attack. And not all groups have 3 effective melee characters, especially at 1st level. Bad luck on initiative and the Barbarian failing his save can turn what should be an easy encounter into a very difficult one.
I've seen TPKs from the single ghoul in
It doesn't mean a ghoul is a difficult encounter, but its difficulty swings through a wide range depending on the luck of the dice. Either the PCs win initiative and kill the ghoul before it ever gets to act on one extreme, or the ghoul wins and paralyzes the biggest threat before any of the PCs get to act on the other extreme.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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There's an early season 1-5 scenario with 3 Lacedons at Tier 1-2 and a whopping 8! at 4-5, in a relatively small area. 9 chances to paralyze divided by 4 1st level characters can make for a bad situation. 24 chances. even for 4 4-5 characters could get rough. At least they're low hitpoint monsters.
I think the majority of these situations are in earlier seasons, though, and not necessarily representative of the challenge the current scenarios pose. That has taken other forms (skill checks and advanced and occult classes) in recent years.
I don't know what to think of newer scenario challenges. Like sometimes I feel like they spike in difficultly in really arbitrary ways making it hard to peg down any sort of consistency.
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Well, if the ghoul is in a position to hit 3 party members with paralysis, then he is also in a position to take 3 full attacks , so he should be going down pretty quick. Of course bad rolls can happen, but there isn't much you can do about that except for a witch or shaman with fortune up all the time.1 ghoul with 3 attacks can do that pretty easily. There's a few low level ghouls with class levels and enough hp to taeke outyour party if the barbariab or fighter misses a fort save.
Where in the world have you encountered something at low level that can paralyze the whole party at once? A pack of ghouls that can attack the whole party could do that, but that would be way over cr'd for a tier 1-2 encounter.At 1st or 2nd level, a full attack is generally a single attack. And not all groups have 3 effective melee characters, especially at 1st level. Bad luck on initiative and the Barbarian failing his save can turn what should be an easy encounter into a very difficult one.
I've seen TPKs from the single ghoul in
** spoiler omitted ** just from unlucky rolls.
It doesn't mean a ghoul is a difficult encounter, but its difficulty swings through a wide range depending on the luck of the dice. Either the PCs win initiative and kill the ghoul before it ever gets to act on one extreme, or the ghoul wins and paralyzes the biggest threat before any of the PCs get to act on the other extreme.
Yes. That can happen, but you can't blame scenario writers or the system for bad dice rolls. It seems like the op has very limited experience with Pathfinder or rpg's in general and has become frustrated by a few difficult encounters he wasn't prepared for, and his other party members don't seem to take the challenges seriously enough. He needs experience and patience.
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Yes. That can happen, but you can't blame scenario writers or the system for bad dice rolls. It seems like the op has very limited experience with Pathfinder or rpg's in general and has become frustrated by a few difficult encounters he wasn't prepared for, and his other party members don't seem to take the challenges seriously enough. He needs experience and patience.Careful, talk like that will cause the OP to accuse you of being discriminatory or dismissive.
I mean, you're completely on point with your observation, but it doesn't seem to matter...
I am aware of that, and I don't care. He has shot down every suggestion and been quite dismissive of everyone's advice even though they were spot on. It seems he just wants to whine, and doesn't want to do anything to fix his problems with the game or his group.
First of all, As for the Advice, if its something as obvious as "roll well" or rude as "quit your group" dont be surprised when people take offense to that. What it somebody said to ditch your friends or family?
I know I really dont work with the group I am in. So now I am looking for a campaign group on Roll20.net.
Now if you dont empathize with my frustrations with "roll-or-die" situations that are frequently appearing than why are you here?
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Ive tried to end this thread before amicably but the hint wasnt taken the first time.
To anyone offering constructive suggestions, thank you. It has been helpful just not the answer to all my problems.
To anyone engaging in a rational discussion, it was interesting. I am curious about how other people play as yes I am quite new to RPGs.
To anyone being negative(no names, you know who you are), lets go our separate ways. I dont want to see trolling, Flamewars, or people beating a dead thread to get the last post.