I am hoping to run an Adventure Path for a new group of players soon. I need help deciding which one to choose from 'experts' who may have run a variety of Paths in the past. I am looking for an Adventure Path that:
1 - Includes many recurring NPCs and opportunities for roleplaying with them. I love dungeon crawls and such, but I prefer to have lots of opportunities to talk in character with meaningful NPCs, not just monsters that will be slain.
2 - Does not include game mechanics that can bog down play or make tailoring encounters to my party too difficult. For example, Wrath of the Righteous may be too challenging to scale properly with the Mythic Rules. Also, the 3.5 paths might take a ton of work to update to Pathfinder rules. (However, I would consider them if they are truly superb otherwise.)
3 - Will work with a varied party makeup that may not be very optimized or min/maxed. If there is an essential class/role/etc. for a path, I'd love to have that advice up front. My group will likely not include min/maxers or super-experienced Pathfinder players. They will all likely be experienced roleplayers though.
4 - Has an interesting plot that won't be hard to keep players motivated in. I'd like to avoid a story that is only interesting to read, but not interesting to play through. I expect my party will tailor their character backgrounds to have motivations for the path, but I prefer that their motivations don't have to be too contrived or corny to keep interest through all 6 modules.
I hope it doesn't sound like I'm too picky. I really just want to find that 'perfect' Adventure Path to start a new group with that will really sell them on Pathfinder and keep them coming back for more.
Thanks in advance for sharing any opinions!
If you haven't already played it yet, I highly recommend the Rise of the Runelords campaign. It has tons of recurring NPC's that the players are highly encouraged to role play with, and a really good storyline. I ran it in 2012 for my group, and I am running it again for a group of two new players and three veterans.
Players had loads of fun and it is a blast to DM too. It takes players from level 1-like 16 so they can experience what all levels of play are like and feel proud about their characters too.
I second Runelords. The group I play with isn't done yet (we sadly can't get together as often as anybody would like), but it's been a lot of fun so far and hits on a lot of what you've said you're looking for. Engaging plot, interesting NPCs, and opportunity to role play.
I finished GMing Council of Thieves last year with a different local group. It was fun and everybody seemed to enjoy it. But I don't think the story is quite as cohesive as RotRL and I think it takes quite a bit more effort on the GM's part to keep the NPCs fleshed out (there are opportunities to have continued or recurring interactions, for instance, but they can be spaced out and don't feel as necessary to plot development, etc.). I did enjoy it overall though, and the group had fun with it.
Hell's Rebels or the upcoming updated Curse of the Crimson Throne. Two best Paizo APs, hands down.
Iron Gods is the best. Resistance is futile.
Updated Curse of the Crimson Throne? I read the first one and thought it had great potential, despite being written for 3.5.
Well there is Skulls and Shackles. There are lots of reoccurring NPCs since there is a boat and you are stuck on it together. I am not running that one but playing in it. Due to the islands everywhere you can still get plenty of dungeons. Nor do you have to be evil pirates.
My GM described the game as Pirate Politics. Roleplay matters in that you need allies and for your crew to like you. Ship to ship combat sucks and takes forever. My GM as just taken to making some rolls and asking us what we do the describing what happens.
What I know about the Jade Regent it seems like it would fit. Constant NPCs on a Caravan ride. The only issue my player had and why I did not run it was the fact that an NPC is the heir to importance. Nevermind that if it was one of the players then they would have to pick someone to be that person and the other players must protect that PC.
I just found the preorder of Curse of the Crimson Throne for Pathfinder, instead of 3.5 I might look at that one more closely past the first module. Since the first module is city based, it gives a lot of opportunities for roleplay.
I'll look more closely at Rise of Runelords, Kingmaker and Skulls & Shackles. Rise of Runelords seems like good roleplay interactions, but mostly in the first 2 modules and less later on where there is a lot of wilderness exploration. I actually played Skulls & Shackles as a player and it seemed very hack and slash, BUT the DM and group didn't really get into roleplaying. I'll try to look at it again.
I'm thinking that perhaps some minor modification by including 1 or 2 party NPCs that are integral parts of the story. They don't have to be PC classed characters or combatant types, necessarily. This could add a lot of complication and the awkward possibility to have conversations with yourself sometimes. I can maybe have PCs run them in combat, but I take over out of combat? Party NPC's can add a lot of interaction while 'out in the field'. I don't want them to outshine PCs though or to be the DM answer robot for every PC question.
I own and have read Ultimate Intrigue. I wonder if there are some elements from that book that can be added to existing paths to give them more roleplay opportunities?
Thanks for all the advice so far! Keep it coming if you have time to spare. =)
Hell's Rebels or the upcoming updated Curse of the Crimson Throne. Two best Paizo APs, hands down.
This.
Kingmaker and RotRL AE are both good as well.
Kingmaker is fantastic. I've DMed up to book 5 now, heading into book 6. if you don't feel like doing the kingdom mechanics there's ways to automate it, but having my players play diplomat and make trade agreements with other nations and other various forms of RP with those recurring characters has been hugely rewarding for us.
Its very forgiving, because for many of the encounters (the hex stuff, you'll know it when you see it) your players will have full resources, so you don't have to worry about stamina. there's a couple dungeon crawls and such but much of it is overland, also obviating the need for a rogue. it's probably the AP where any one class is needed least in my experience, and I've DMed/played in about 6 so far.
just my 2 copper. if you have questions, need tips, anything (because you're a new DM or any other reason) you can feel free to PM me too.
good luck!!
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Skulls and Shackles fits your requirements to a "t". There are TONS of role-play opportunities, lots of characters who stick with you from the very beginning of the campaign, and it's great fun for the players.
We're currently playing it in a VERY evil campaign but you could go all the way in the opposite fashion and have it be a "Privateer" type party.
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Thanks again for the advice everyone! I really appreciate the helpfulness.
I am fairly new to these Messageboards, and I just found the Adventure Path sections. I'll look at some of those areas for more details that will help me decide.
I could spend hours just reading and researching. =)
It seems like these APs are among the 'best' for my criteria, not necessarily ranked in order:
1 - Rise of Runelords - Pro - Well balanced, focused homebase and NPCs ; Con - May need more long term NPCs for 'out in the field' toward end
2 - Skulls and Shackles - Pro - Lots of recurring NPCs and shipmates for interaction; Con - May need work on group incentive to stick together and be 'pirates'
3 - Kingmaker - Pro and Con - Very open
4 - Jade Regent - Pro - recurring NPCs for interactions; Con - Weak middle
5 - Curse of the Crimson Throne - Pro - City based for ease of recurring NPCs, factions, interactions; Con - Needs conversion, unless I wait
I tried to summarize some of the pros and cons from the little research I've done so far.
Thanks again!
About your 'Con' with Runelords... By that point in a campaign you'll probably have tonnes of story and NPCs that weren't written in, but came up in the story somehow.
Updated Curse of the Crimson Throne? I read the first one and thought it had great potential, despite being written for 3.5.
Yep, it is in the works, coming out this fall. Just search for the campaign name in the Paizo site, it is the hardcover.
Iron Gods - pro, technology is like magic items, except cooler, a diverse range of enemies, plenty of role playing.
Cons- none.
Hmm, well this may not be the best adventure path for players new to the game, but if you mean veterans you've never played with before, it should be good: Way of the wicked.
It's sooooo good. This is an evil campaign yes, but appart from that one issue, it is by far the best Adventure path I've ever been involved with. I have either played or GM'd the following:
Reign of winter
Serpent skull
Carrion crown
Giant slayer
Most games I play are home brew, and I find home brew better than an AP almost 100% of the time, however this game is just better. I don't want to give anything away, and I haven't played the big Paizo classics like RotR, but I would venture that this AP is better. So far there are no real Dungeon crawls, it's much more focused on RP, also there are no Deus Ex Machina moments, everything that happens makes sense, and follows logically, you don't do things because a magical McGuffin will solve everything if you can just get your hands on it.
That being said we are still in the first book, and have been there a good deal of time, and while a lot has happened it is still a long adventure path.
Also plenty of NPC's to RP with, and then some. Up front you need social and you want infiltration of your team.
Good luck in your search.
Interesting to see a nod to Giantslayer given the polarizing nature that AP has on the boards here. Don't get me wrong, I love it, just interesting...
I'd say Mummy's Mask meets all of the requirements in the OP, too. It's a pretty standard undead romp but varied enough to keep the combat interesting, too (not nearly as dedicated to a single creature type as Giantslayer is becoming in later books). There's also plenty of RP opportunities for the GM and PCs alike, and a few simple game mechanics that are fun, but not cumbersome (nothing nearly as complex as kingdom building in Kingmaker or the rebellion in Hell's Rebels). In spite of what you'd think with tombs and dungeons and all that in an Egyptian themed AP (there are plenty), MM is very sandboxy and easily customizable to whatever play style you need.
2 - Skulls and Shackles - Pro - Lots of recurring NPCs and shipmates for interaction; Con - May need work on group incentive to stick together and be 'pirates'You may want to review the ship combat and fame/infamy subsystems to make sure they work for you.
Eh, just toss both of those out. They add next to nothing to the game itself.
2 - Skulls and Shackles - Pro - Lots of recurring NPCs and shipmates for interaction; Con - May need work on group incentive to stick together and be 'pirates'
That is what "Session 0" is for. Have everyone come together. Say "Hey, I want to do this cool pirate-themed D&D campaign. What do you guys think?" Then spitball ideas off each other and have the group flesh out a group of characters who actively want to be pirates. Make sure they all have a motivation for being together.
Kingmaker is a good choice provided you're willing to invest some time in keeping the NPCs straight. Its other drawback is that the threads don't always tie together perfectly well (it sometimes feels disjointed out of the box). Fortunately, there's a whole subforum devoted to cleaning that up.
The biggest issue with Kingmaker is that its partially out of print (and print-wise generally the least accessible Paizo AP out there).
Going point by point:
1 - Includes many recurring NPCs and opportunities for roleplaying...
Tons of this. Though a lot is just sketched out and is left for the GM to further fill in.
2 - Does not include game mechanics that can bog down play...
The big "hook" for Kingmaker is kingdom building, which, as others have said can be "dumbed down". Mass combat makes an appearance a couple of times as well, though this can also be minimized. (you could be directing troops from behind, not leading them personally).
3 - Will work with a varied party makeup that may not be very optimized or min/maxed. If there is an essential class/role/etc. for a path, I'd love to have that advice up front.
Nothing is absolutely essential. There's a lot of wilderness / fey, so druids and rangers are probably good. We played with 4: a bard, paladin, cleric and arcanist. The GM wound up bumping up a lot of encounters.
4 - Has an interesting plot that won't be hard to keep players motivated in. I'd like to avoid a story that is only interesting to read, but not interesting to play through...
KM is a sandbox. There's a background plot, but it can be adjusted to suit the campaign (or never conclude if that's what you want). There's a bunch of stand-alone modules that work well within this setting (Carnival of Fear comes to mind as an early on module) where all you do is rearrange the background motivations. I've found that you could set a lot of Giantslayer in and around the Stolen Lands (where Kingmaker is set) as well. Again, gotta tweak stuff a little, but not as much as you'd think.
Kingmaker is great for foreshadowing as well. For example, you don't really interact with the nation of Pitax until the last couple of books.. but have a diplomatic event early on where you meet the Pitaxians so that each group gets a "history". Want to include more on Mivon? (it really gets short shrift in the AP) Check out the subforum and/or ask in there - its a really helpful group.
Like I said - great AP for RP. But RP always means more work for the GM. The GM can mitigate that somewhat by doing things like asking the PCs to design their castle and by having the PCs telegraph a little what they intend to do for the next few game sessions (do you want to explore or work on the kingdom?) We spent a couple of sessions at one point planning anniversaries for the kingdom (I believe the Cult of Gyronna interrupted one of those anniversaries) and another building a monument to those lost in the troll attacks.
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for kingmaker, i added a home brewed " fey enhanced" template for random encounters and had every possible enemy humanoid go on and on about worshipping a mysterious lady. there is too little foreshadowing in the books themselves.
other than that, it was a blast for my entire group. plenty of room for me to replace and tweek the npcs fo long term roleplaying.
CotCT. I've run it one and a half times, it's a blast. You don't even need to wait for the updated stats - there's a fan made conversion on d20pfsrd. Here.
Rise of the Runelords is kinda' the gold standard, it's a very solid campaign.
Jade Regent seems to fit a lot of your criteria, though you'd want to make sure to check out the AP forums to get some fixes for the caravan system - as written, it doesn't work (no, really, it's been confirmed by the devs that it doesn't work.)
Our group is going through Iron Gods now - it's incredible! Roleplaying opportunities abound as long as your group is interested and looks out for them. The dungeon crawls are all pretty unique and interesting, but with all that said, I'm not sure I'd run it as a first AP for a group of new players.
Thanks everyone for the advice! I'm still doing research and reading to decide what to run. I hope to share how it turns out in the end. =)