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Okay folks looking for a pathfinder society ruling, with examples if possible.
Charging with Rhino Hide grants +2d6 on any attack involving a charge.
Pounce allows you to make multiple attacks at the end of the charge. Will Rhino hide bonus apply to every one of these attacks? I think the general consensus here, is yes.
What if you charge target, legally to nearest square, hit him using pounce, and have attacks left over, can you strike adjacent foes? If yes, would rhino hide still apply to those attacks?
Pounce states you can make any attacks a full attack sequence would allow. A full attack sequence allows you to attack multiple targets. As long as at least the first attack is done to the target of the charge you have met the prerequisites for the charge maneuver, so i see no issue with multiple targets with following attacks, but recently my local PFS group has had an issue with this, and is seeking clarification.
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No rulings exist to my knowledge.
Expect table variance on whether or not the +2d6 applies to more than one attack at the end of the charge.
You will also experience table variance on attacking anyone not a target of the pounce.
So all of this is "Ask your GM", and yes that is how it would work in PFS. You'd ask your GM for each table you play and they'd making a ruling.
My opinion would be that you pounce a target and get a full attack against that target and that target only. This is because the charge action has stipulations regarding movement that indicate that you are charging a specific opponent. However, you would be able to apply the +2d6 to each attack of the pounce against the charge target.
By RAW you may have the basis for an argument. But it is not RAI (Rhino's don't pounce) and cerainly would deliver more damage than intended. I would rule that the additional damage could be applied to one attack. If you tried to push it, I would consider that you were being cheesy (munchkin powergaming) and breaking the social contract, which is silly because the GM will always win.
If I did relent and allow it, I would also be looking for an excuse to sunder it at the first justifiable opportunity. E.g. an intelligent opponent has witnessed the effect and tells the others to break the armour to stop you being a danger.
How did the lance pounce rulings go?
If I remember correctly damage multiplication only applied to the first attack.
I would expect the same here
I may be very off base
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By RAW you may have the basis for an argument. But it is not RAI (Rhino's don't pounce) and cerainly would deliver more damage than intended. I would rule that the additional damage could be applied to one attack. If you tried to push it, I would consider that you were being cheesy (munchkin powergaming) and breaking the social contract, which is silly because the GM will always win.
If I did relent and allow it, I would also be looking for an excuse to sunder it at the first justifiable opportunity. E.g. an intelligent opponent has witnessed the effect and tells the others to break the armour to stop you being a danger.
What the player is looking for is whether or not a PFS ruling has been made, and if so, what that ruling is, as opposed personal opinions on what constitutes "munchkin powergaming" and what doesn't, which is subjective and has variance from person to person.
Additionally, unless the intelligent opponent has some way of identifying the armor as contributing to the effect, I don't know why they'd go for sundering the armor before trying to sunder whatever weapon the character used.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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How did the lance pounce rulings go?
They did limit it (and similar effects) to the first attack
whether or not a PFS ruling has been made, and if so, what that ruling is, as opposed personal opinions on what constitutes "munchkin powergaming" and what doesn't, which is subjective and has variance from person to person.
Thing is, that unless there is a direct ruling the GM is empowered to interpret the rules. If they interpret the rules such that only the first gets the +2d6 then that is the rules, the RAW, and the matter is settled.
How did the lance pounce rulings go?They did limit it (and similar effects) to the first attack
Your link references the wrong rule errata.
Right one (lance and pounce)|
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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They did limit it (and similar effects) to the first attackYour link references the wrong rule errata.
Right one (lance and pounce)
We are both right, sorta.
My link:
Mounted Combat: When making a charge while mounted, which creature charges? The rider or the mount?
... During a mounted charge, you deal double damage with your first melee attack made with a lance or with any weapon if you have Spirited Charge (or a similar effect), or you deal triple damage with a lance and Spirited Charge.
It also covered the "only first" concept.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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if the plus 2 from charging did not apply to all your attacks on a pounce, then the rhino hide woukd not either.
Since it does, the rhino hide applies to. The stuff about pounce and a lance is only specifically about the triple lance damage, not anything else.
Well all I can say is welcome to table variance.
Okay so there is no actual ruling for this out there? The character in question is a shape-shifting druid in raptor form. Cant sunder the armor if they tried. So it's pretty much where we have it, different gm's different rulings.
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.
The Rhino Hide magic armor has a constant benefit. You do not benefit from the armor bonus (nor the enhancement bonus to said armor bonus), but because you do get a benefit from the armor, you are subject to its armor check penalties and similar penalties.
Exqctly with Saethori states, its a constant magic effect, so it works in wild shape, i just dont get the ac bonus, but still get the penalties
how do you figure it is "activated" no action, not even a free action, is required to activate it. It simply happens when you charge. That would like being saying i have to activate my boots of striding and springing when i want to do acrobatics/jump.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I don't figure, others do. I had a druid with it and got ride of it because nearly every table told me it didn't work.
So I'm trying to explain to you that there is significant numbers of GM that consider it's activated and there isn't anything in the ability that makes it clear it is something that "simply happens".
I believe it is "Use Activated" by the act of charging. See Magic Items
only issue with calling it "use activated" is in the wording. It never says it activates while charging, never claims to turn on while charging, it just applies the bonus damage WHEN charging.Boots of the cat dont have to be "turned on" they always function, and WHEN you fall, you land on your feet taking minimal damage. Use activated would be 3/day you may activate this item as etc. Perhaps i am lucky here in Rhode Island, but out of the 8 different GM's i have played with here, not one has questioned its use in wild shape form. They only seem to differ on would i get spillover attacks. So i'll take whati can get with that one i guess.
Use activated would be 3/day you may activate this item as etc.
Not true. Most use activated items don't have a N/day limit (they are continuously functioning) or they are consumed with a single use. For example, the "Defending" weapon property is use activated, it only functions if you actually USE the weapon (to attack with) but has no N/day limit.
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Use activated means when you do something. So like "swing a sword" would be activated when you swing a sword. In this case, you activate by charging.
Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen
I don't think you can willing turn on and off rhino hide. So I don't think it is activated but as with all rule issues that's up for interpretation.
deals an additional 2d6 points of damage on any successful charge attack made by the wearer, including a mounted charge.
Pounce: If have this ability (page 302), can I make iterative attacks with weapons as part of my full attack?
Any melee attack sequence you can perform as a full attack is allowed as part of the charge-pounce-full attack. For example, a barbarian with the greater beast totem rage power gains the pounce universal monster ability and could make iterative attacks with manufactured melee weapons as part of her charge-pounce-full attack.
Worth remembering that a charging pounce is a single full round action. To me that implies that anything effecting one attack effects all of them.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I don't think you can willing turn on and off rhino hide.
Actually you use it by charging, so it's activated for you when you charge. Hence an activated ability.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
I'm not sure why this isn't straightforward and self-explanatory?
As I initially said in this thread, expect table variance on this.
I don't think you can willing turn on and off rhino hide.Actually you use it by charging, so it's activated for you when you charge. Hence an activated ability.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.I'm not sure why this isn't straightforward and self-explanatory?
As I initially said in this thread, expect table variance on this.
it's not use activated by an always on ability. You don't USE the hide when you charge. But having the hide gives you bonuses when you charge.
you use a potion by drinking it. To use hide by wearing it. But putting on the hide doesn't activate anything. It's like a belt of str. Putting on the belt doesn't activate anything, but while wearing the belt you get increased str.
Same here, wearing the hide lets your charges do extra damage, but there's nothing that activates.
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James I quoted from the same section of the rules.
Use Activated: This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, wear a ring, or don a hat. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession (meaning on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word (see above), usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case.
Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item's activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use, activation is not an action at all.
Use activation doesn't mean that if you use an item, you automatically know what it can do. You must know (or at least guess) what the item can do and then use the item in order to activate it, unless the benefit of the item comes automatically, such as from drinking a potion or swinging a sword.
Because you have to use it and it can't be turned off it is not willed. If the texted said "may" do 2d6 extra damage that would be different. The effect only applied to a charge but it's still there.
Also Use Activated and Continuous are basically the same thing according to Item creation. Continuous, is just a subset of Use Activated. Why makes it all very hard to suss out.
Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears. A few must simply be in the character's possession
Continuous effects are very nebulously defined; I just want to add some text that had not yet been discussed. If you are going to choose an item with unclear rules having more ideas in the same place will make it easier for players and GMs to make there own decisions.
Table variance should not shut a conversation down but allow for a civil discussion to help people get to the best decision for their game. But, I'm bad at the internet;).