Any tips for 1st time PFS player during character creation


Pathfinder Society


Hey all.

Long time forum lurker here. I've played Pathfinder for many years now, mostly just in home games. But this weekend will be my first fray into the Pathfinder Society gameplay.
I'm currently wracking my brain and have many concepts for characters I'd love to play. So I'm trying to narrow it down.

So, any tips to keep in mind or advice anyone can give when making a PFS character that would be useful in PFS play? Lemme know :)

Many thanks
-S

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

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I've noticed over the years that the most important factor that causes new players to not find PFS a suitable environment is that they don't keep the three tenets of the Society in mind when creating a character: Explore, Report, Cooperate. Especially that last one. I've found that people whose characters can't, don't, or won't cooperate with the rest of the party tend to not get the same sort of community-building experience people with more cooperative characters would.

Make a character that can work with others - not necessarily well, but to some extent at the least. This usually means making a character that can do something both in combat and outside it, whether that's helping out in social situations or making Survival or Gather Information rolls when investigating. If your character can participate, you get to be more engaged with the scenario and other characters, and your experience is probably much better for it.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

The key difference between home games and PFS is that you don't know who you're sitting down at the table with. You can't assume you'll have access to particular buff spells, or a flanking buddy, or a dedicated healer, etc. That means you should bring your own consumables if you need them, and try to be flexible in what you can do.

A "Big Dumb Fighter" might be fun, but if you show up to a table full of other fighters, or get sent to a wedding to hob-nob, you won't have much to do. Likewise, an enchantment-focused Sorcerer might rock social encounters and fights against humanoids, but be next-to-useless against hordes of undead, or have nothing to help the fighter get out of the gelatinous cube.

Specialize enough to be good at your schtick, but not so much that you can't contribute strongly if your schtick is useless at the moment.

Also, remember that characters in PFS are professional adventurers who choose to go on missions. This isn't a place for wide-eyed farm boys forced into adventure by circumstance.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

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Sean Izaakse wrote:
So, any tips to keep in mind or advice anyone can give when making a PFS character that would be useful in PFS play?

Keep an open mind, as you're able to rebuild all aspects of your character until you hit 2nd level, and your experiences in your first couple of games might cause you to rethink.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

After getting 16 prestige points(you can get 2 from most outings), you can purchase a raise dead with them.

Keep on truckin' until that.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento aka FLite

With PFS, the scenarios are designed to be completable by an average party. You don't have to do much optimization at all to really shine. As a result, super specialists are much less useful in PFS, and broadly built characters do better.

For your first character, I would recommend against dumping any stats. Once you know your region and what people like to bring to the table, you can start playing around with the INT 5 fighter or whatever, but to start keep a nice safe stat array.


I'm making notes. I was a little concerned that maybe skills wouldn't be used as much and there would be more dungeons so you'd have to focus on combat, or even vise versa where there was more RP stuff with skills and less combat. And I didn't generally want to lose out on either but wanted to be effective at both.
There are three PFS games happening this weekend, I may only play 2 of them and use different characters for each and see which fits nicely and then take that one forward for future games (provided they survive of course)

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

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Sean Izaakse wrote:

I'm making notes. I was a little concerned that maybe skills wouldn't be used as much and there would be more dungeons so you'd have to focus on combat, or even vise versa where there was more RP stuff with skills and less combat. And I didn't generally want to lose out on either but wanted to be effective at both.

There are three PFS games happening this weekend, I may only play 2 of them and use different characters for each and see which fits nicely and then take that one forward for future games (provided they survive of course)

Some scenarios are almost entirely skill and roleplay based. Some are just plain old dungeon crawls. It all depends on what scenario you happen to play.

Your plan to make tester characters is a solid one. PFS is a fun way to try out builds and character concepts.

Silver Crusade

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Reposting my standard character building advice:

When I make a new PC, I try to answer 4 questions (used to be 3, but I ended up with a couple of boring PCs, so added a 4th):

1. What's this character's specialty in combat? As long as the PC can do something that helps the party succeed in a fight, this can be anything, not just dealing damage, but make sure you're actually good at whatever this is. You don't have to be uber-optimized, but make sure you can contribute.

2. What does this character do in combat when they're specialty isn't an option? This is things like having a ranged weapon even though your character is a melee beast, or an enchantment based character having something they can do when facing mindless foes. Also, everyone should try to get some splash weapons for use against swarms, though that might have to wait until after your first adventure to be able to afford it.

3. What does this character do outside of combat? This isn't just for personality, this is also making sure you have something useful to contribute between fights. Sometimes, it's diplomacy or other face skills, even if it's just enough of a bonus to be the "aid another" guy behind the main face. Sometimes, it's knowledges, sense motive, or whatever other skills could come in handy between fights.

4. What personality traits will you be able to actively portray at the table? The above 3 questions are designed to make a playable PC by giving them something useful to do in most situations. This question was added afterwards to make a fun character. I had a couple of PCs that were mechanically interesting, but didn't have a personality. Or they had a detailed back story, but that didn't really give me something to role play at the table. This is about giving your PC personality, whether it's a distinctive voice, an obsession that you can play up, or whatever other quirk makes the PC fun to play.


Cool cool. Thanks guys this is a huge help.

So far my ideas are:

A Halfling Hunter with his Hawk animal companion (I might change it to a dog). A wide eyed optimistic hero. Always in awe of everyone and trying to be as helpful an encouraging as he can.

A Dwarven Investigator. Kind of a rugged detective type. Very sarcastic to the bad guys and a bit jaded and really comes alive when the action happens and knows a lot about a lot (one of his favourite sayings.)

And a Half Elf, who I'm not sure if I want to make him a Fighter (Lore warden) or an Inquisitor (Preacher). But the general concept is that he's a follower of Cayden Cailean and mostly will fight with a tankard, and generally be merry and all around fun guy preaching about Cayden and how to enjoy life.

Thoughts?


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dont worry about being optimized..just have fun

Scarab Sages

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Don't neglect your own concept. Every encounter in the module I ran had a social option to make through (bar the trap). Make IC friends and make OOC friends. Find other characters your character will mesh well with, and realize that wizards realize they are squishy, and can make friends with BigDumb McFighter and then turn making friends into making a long-term name for themselves.

Love the look of your half-elf, and any time you want to stab the guy I'm grappling-on-fire feel free. ;)

Lantern Lodge 5/5

1: Have Fun
2: Everything Else

4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Tennessee—Memphis aka Mulgar

Jeff Hazuka wrote:

1-1000000: Have Fun

1000001: Everything Else

Fixed that for you......

3/5 Venture-Agent, Canada—Alberta—Grand Prairie aka DM Livgin

I like Frompers checklist. The guide has a good comment on skills; make sure your pathfinder agent has a social competence, a area of expertise, and a mobility skill. Or in other words, make sure you but ranks in diplomacy, bluff, or intimidate; a knowledge skill; and can climb a wall, pick a lock, or acrobat across a roof.

That will go a long ways toward making a well rounded character the is able to participate in every encounter.

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

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Guide for newbies

What kind of character should I make?:

The one you want to.

If you’ve read the latest splatbook and gotten a really cool idea for the Cuisinart of Whirley Death and want to play that character, go for it. There will be enough for your character to do in the game to make it worth playing. If you have a fun idea that's not uber optimized, PFS isn’t usually so hard that you need to minmax to the hilt or die. The society has enough in game reason to take either character and send them on an adventure: pathfinders inevitably run into something that needs a sword to the head and unique talents often come in handy.

If you are deciding between a hyper specialized character and more of a generalist though, I would recommend the generalist. In a home game you can figure out who’s playing the meat shield, the wizard, the skills guy and the healer. In PFS you play with whatever bag of mixed nuts sit at the table with you, and the venture captains send their characters all out on the mission. More experienced groups often have multiple characters they can swap out for better party composition, but even then sometimes the rogue with use magic device and a wand winds up as the party healer. It's far more important to be self sufficient and able to cover multiple roles in PFS than in a home game.

You really should be competent at 2 things in combat, and at least 1 or two things out of it. Combat is a large part of the game, but so are investigations, deadly decadent courts, archaeological digs, and exploration. Skills have a much larger role in Pathfinder society than they might in other games.

5/5 Venture-Agent, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Azothath

If you know what classes you'd like to try out - I'd play the pregenerated characters for your first 3 games. You don't have to buy anything (for the character or you) and you can try each out.
Then before you play your 4th game (being 2nd level) iron everything out. You'll have about 1650GP to create a second level character.

Grand Lodge 3/5

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Stephen Ross wrote:

If you know what classes you'd like to try out - I'd play the pregenerated characters for your first 3 games. You don't have to buy anything (for the character or you) and you can try each out.

Then before you play your 4th game (being 2nd level) iron everything out. You'll have about 1650GP to create a second level character.

That's what i did at a gaming convention and built a character [a Monk] for the special held at the con. She did rather well, though I forgot about her special attacks much of time.

One big thing that deserves mention- always have a ranged weapon. Can't stress how many times I've been on a party, fighting fliers, with no ranged weapons.
Another thing that deserves mention- Remember Aid Another. For spell casters, that extra +2 AC or +2 to Hit can come in handy if you've run out of spells.

After your first session, spend 150g on a Melee Contingency Kit. For that price, you get- a Cold Iron Morning Star, a silver Sickle, 2 Acid Flasks, 2 Alchemist's Fires, & 2 Holy Waters.
not the fanciest of kits, but having some options early in your career is wise.

5/5 Venture-Agent, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Azothath

Selvaxri wrote:

... After your first session, spend 150g on a Melee Contingency Kit. For that price, you get- a Cold Iron Morning Star, a silver Sickle, 2 Acid Flasks, 2 Alchemist's Fires, & 2 Holy Waters.

not the fanciest of kits, but having some options early in your career is wise.

for the Melee Contingency Kit you'll need to own the Pathfinder Player Companion: Melee Tactics Toolbox.

In my Guide to Starting Out, I suggest your first weapon be a MW Cold Iron type suited to your main or secondary weapon. In order of general preference: two-handed sword, earthbreaker, lucern hammer, glaive-guisarme, bardiche, rapier(Dex), gladius(Dex & Str)(Ultimate Combat), morningstar, cestus (Adventurer's Armory).

Many spend 2PA to grab a +2 MW Str Composite longbow with cold iron arrows of course.

At second level you should have 2 ranks in Ride skill and a heavy war horse with military saddle, bit & bridle, saddlebags unless you are small or horses don't like you.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I must 'fess up that I'd rather just take Power Attack and bash through DR than carry extra stuff. I mean, sure, it's great to have the right tool for a DR but often it's just better to get a full attack in instead of spending a move to draw something you're e.g less specialized-in, that's less echanted or doesn't have your current buffs on. Obviously this assumes you've got some kinda solid damage base as it is. I used to do the whole silver hammer + cold iron armor spikes thing, but felt it's just easier to drop foes NOW instead of wasting actions.

Then, of course, there are the exceptions like splitting, metal-corroding oozes and dr/15 rakshashas. For those you need a contingency or a lot more damage!

Sovereign Court 5/5

Muser wrote:

I must 'fess up that I'd rather just take Power Attack and bash through DR than carry extra stuff. I mean, sure, it's great to have the right tool for a DR but often it's just better to get a full attack in instead of spending a move to draw something you're e.g less specialized-in, that's less echanted or doesn't have your current buffs on. Obviously this assumes you've got some kinda solid damage base as it is. I used to do the whole silver hammer + cold iron armor spikes thing, but felt it's just easier to drop foes NOW instead of wasting actions.

Then, of course, there are the exceptions like splitting, metal-corroding oozes and dr/15 rakshashas. For those you need a contingency or a lot more damage!

I was recently in a game where the only PC with Cold Iron weapons was my Bard....

3rd level Rogue? Nope...
3rd level Druid? Well... She did have a Magic Fang prepared...
2nd level Barbarian? Nah...

I spent an action to hand the barbarian my MW Cold Iron Longsword, and started passing my Holy Water (no one had any of that except me) and my Iron Brushes (cold iron) to the Rogue to throw.... We had encountered a little daemon (flying head) that had a poison bite and DR 10/Cold Iron...


Would a Cold Iron Tankard suffice? Otherwise I'll have to get a Cold Iron Rapier.

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

Muse. wrote:
Muser wrote:

I must 'fess up that I'd rather just take Power Attack and bash through DR than carry extra stuff. I mean, sure, it's great to have the right tool for a DR but often it's just better to get a full attack in instead of spending a move to draw something you're e.g less specialized-in, that's less echanted or doesn't have your current buffs on. Obviously this assumes you've got some kinda solid damage base as it is. I used to do the whole silver hammer + cold iron armor spikes thing, but felt it's just easier to drop foes NOW instead of wasting actions.

Then, of course, there are the exceptions like splitting, metal-corroding oozes and dr/15 rakshashas. For those you need a contingency or a lot more damage!

I was recently in a game where the only PC with Cold Iron weapons was my Bard....

3rd level Rogue? Nope...
3rd level Druid? Well... She did have a Magic Fang prepared...
2nd level Barbarian? Nah...

I spent an action to hand the barbarian my MW Cold Iron Longsword, and started passing my Holy Water (no one had any of that except me) and my Iron Brushes (cold iron) to the Rogue to throw.... We had encountered a little daemon (flying head) that had a poison bite and DR 10/Cold Iron...

DR 10 at such a low tier is definitely one of those exceptions Muser mentioned.

Sovereign Court 5/5

Rei wrote:
Muse. wrote:
Muser wrote:

I must 'fess up that I'd rather just take Power Attack and bash through DR than carry extra stuff. I mean, sure, it's great to have the right tool for a DR but often it's just better to get a full attack in instead of spending a move to draw something you're e.g less specialized-in, that's less echanted or doesn't have your current buffs on. Obviously this assumes you've got some kinda solid damage base as it is. I used to do the whole silver hammer + cold iron armor spikes thing, but felt it's just easier to drop foes NOW instead of wasting actions.

Then, of course, there are the exceptions like splitting, metal-corroding oozes and dr/15 rakshashas. For those you need a contingency or a lot more damage!

I was recently in a game where the only PC with Cold Iron weapons was my Bard....

3rd level Rogue? Nope...
3rd level Druid? Well... She did have a Magic Fang prepared...
2nd level Barbarian? Nah...

I spent an action to hand the barbarian my MW Cold Iron Longsword, and started passing my Holy Water (no one had any of that except me) and my Iron Brushes (cold iron) to the Rogue to throw.... We had encountered a little daemon (flying head) that had a poison bite and DR 10/Cold Iron...

DR 10 at such a low tier is definitely one of those exceptions Muser mentioned.

well... it was in a Tier 1-5 scenario... at low Tier.

...and there's the encounter in an Evergreen Intro with something that has DR silver - though in that one you do (the party) get handed a masterwork silver dagger (damage would be 1d4-1)...

I always figured having a Cold Iron weapon is kind of like having Holy Water or a Splash Weapon... and a sling and Cold Iron bullets would cost 2 s.p....

I (this PC) only have Cold Iron weapons (Longsword, spiked gauntlet, iron brushes) and a silver light mace - but then mostly I'm a spell caster. (oh! and splash weapons and holy water).

I couldn't really fault the Barbarian for not having a C.I. weapon, he was JUST 2nd level (3XP), but the other two were 3rd level ... In the encounter with the Daemon the Rogue used one of my Holy Waters. In walking thru the market later I replaced it (saying "Hay, while we're here I'll buy a replacement Holy Water"). That way later in the scenario I had 2 for the Rogue to grab again (while I through spells at the monster, he used my Holy Water cause he didn't have a weapon that could effect it). Yeah, I "used" three Holy Waters that scenario even though I only carry 2...


Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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It says "all ways", so yeah.


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RainyDayNinja wrote:
It says "all ways", so yeah.

Drinking and bashing monsters in the face is what my PC is gonna do. "For Cayden Cailean!!"

Grand Lodge 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Online—PbP aka Hmm

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That sounds like a character concept to me!! But then again, my local lodge shares much in common with the Hall of Drunken Heroes.

Hmm

The Exchange 5/5

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Hmm wrote:

That sounds like a character concept to me!! But then again, my local lodge shares much in common with the Hall of Drunken Heroes.

Hmm

My wife just gave out a number of engraved mugs to our gaming crew... (glass 16 oz. mugs)

they say "Mugged by Cayden Cailen" ... (yeah - she missed the spelling error when she reviewed the Proof from the engraver... so now she's going to have another bunch done.)

She's looking forward to us all having them out at a Con - and waiting to see if anyone notices.

The Exchange 5/5

Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.

5/5 Venture-Agent, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Azothath

nosig wrote:

My wife just gave out a number of engraved mugs to our gaming crew... (glass 16 oz. mugs)

they say "Mugged by Cayden Cailen" ... (yeah - she missed the spelling error when she reviewed the Proof from the engraver... so now she's going to have another bunch done.)
She's looking forward to us all having them out at a Con - and waiting to see if anyone notices.

lol... it seems to make sense to me.

on a side note I did find some silly fonts. drunk fonts or graffiti...


nosig wrote:
Hmm wrote:

That sounds like a character concept to me!! But then again, my local lodge shares much in common with the Hall of Drunken Heroes.

Hmm

My wife just gave out a number of engraved mugs to our gaming crew... (glass 16 oz. mugs)

they say "Mugged by Cayden Cailen" ... (yeah - she missed the spelling error when she reviewed the Proof from the engraver... so now she's going to have another bunch done.)

She's looking forward to us all having them out at a Con - and waiting to see if anyone notices.

Thats cool! Think I might do summin like that. I'm already heading out tomorrow to look for a tankard to bring to the table to get into character.


Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.

I'll save for a Mithral one. Do you know where I can find these magical Tankards, cos the one in the Weapon Masters Handbook isn't legal for PFS play? Thanks.

The Exchange 5/5

Sean Izaakse wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.
I'll save for a Mithral one. Do you know where I can find these magical Tankards, cos the one in the Weapon Masters Handbook isn't legal for PFS play? Thanks.

Here you go....

It is on a Chronicle, so I'm not sure if that would mean you can't buy it without getting access?


nosig wrote:
Sean Izaakse wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.
I'll save for a Mithral one. Do you know where I can find these magical Tankards, cos the one in the Weapon Masters Handbook isn't legal for PFS play? Thanks.

Here you go....

It is on a Chronicle, so I'm not sure if that would mean you can't buy it without getting access?

Thanks!

Ugh gonna be a bit bummed if I can't enchant my Tankard with some kinda bonus somehow in PFS.

Sovereign Court Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West aka Yasumoto

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Each of those has a rad hook and would definitely be welcome at my table! I could be persuaded to hear a bit about Cayden Cailean if beer was involved...! :)

Grand Lodge 2/5

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I'm not going to read all of the responses, as I'm sure by now they're all sufficient. But I did do a quick glance and saw that no one mentioned Hero Lab. So my advice for a new player: Don't use hero lab. At least don't use it until you've got a firm understanding of the game actually works--and by extension any character you make. I've seen far too often people show up at the gaming table with a Hero Lab printout and no idea how to actually play the game or what everything on their sheet actually means.

I'm not saying it's a bad tool, I'm just saying it fosters ignorance. Recently I had a player at my table who said they were going to give up pathfinder because it was too stressful making a character until they found herolab. We had to explain to that person for a full minute why she couldn't get into flanking around an enemy that no one else had engaged yet. That person picked up a new weapon during the adventure and every. single. time. that they used it I had to tell them what damage size the die was. She's a very pleasant person, but she has very little idea how to play the game.

On the other hand, if you already know the system well and have a firm base of understanding, then by all means go ahead and use Hero Lab. I'm sure it's a real time saver. I'd love to use it at this point, but personally I can't justify the cost--they would have so many more sales if they changed their pricing model (they're trying, they changed it ~a year ago so you could buy "themes", but the price for "everything" is just ridiculous). There are a myriad of online resources that have all sources cataloged and searchable. So after I plan out my character with those online resources, all I've got to do is just make sure I've got the actual books.


claudekennilol wrote:

I'm not going to read all of the responses, as I'm sure by now they're all sufficient. But I did do a quick glance and saw that no one mentioned Hero Lab. So my advice for a new player: Don't use hero lab. At least don't use it until you've got a firm understanding of the game actually works--and by extension any character you make. I've seen far too often people show up at the gaming table with a Hero Lab printout and no idea how to actually play the game or what everything on their sheet actually means.

I'm not saying it's a bad tool, I'm just saying it fosters ignorance. Recently I had a player at my table who said they were going to give up pathfinder because it was too stressful making a character until they found herolab. We had to explain to that person for a full minute why she couldn't get into flanking around an enemy that no one else had engaged yet. That person picked up a new weapon during the adventure and every. single. time. that they used it I had to tell them what damage size the die was. She's a very pleasant person, but she has very little idea how to play the game.

On the other hand, if you already know the system well and have a firm base of understanding, then by all means go ahead and use Hero Lab. I'm sure it's a real time saver. I'd love to use it at this point, but personally I can't justify the cost--they would have so many more sales if they changed their pricing model (they're trying, they changed it ~a year ago so you could buy "themes", but the price for "everything" is just ridiculous). There are a myriad of online resources that have all sources cataloged and searchable. So after I plan out my character with those online resources, all I've got to do is just make sure I've got the actual books.

Yup, don't worry I know how the game works at least. in my home games we played an entire Eberron Campaign using PF rules and are currently just over half way with the Rise of the Runelords AP and I'm running a horror themed campaign set in Golaion. So I know how it works. I just wasn't sure what would be cool and/or useful but fun to play in PFS scanarios :)

And yup, I'm using Herolab and taking a tablet with my PDF's to the game for all my stuff.

Grand Lodge 4/5

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Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Sean Izaakse wrote:

Sort of another side question while I build one of my characters.

In the Weapon Masters Handbook under the Divine Fighting Style by Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard is says
"Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size."

So any feats that apply to a light mace will apply to a tankard I wield right?

Thanks again for the input everyone. You've gotten me super excited for my game this weekend.

Just be mindful that tankards are not weapons. Most special materials only have prices for weapons or armor, so a tankard couldn't be made from those materials. You could buy a mithral tankard since that material lists pricing for random items by weight. Tankards not being a proper weapon also prevents you from enchanting them as magic weapons. However there are a few specific named magical tankards that are enchanted as magic weapons.

If I treat it in all ways as a light mace, why can't I by a masterwork tankard?

I can buy a masterwork light mace, I should be able to make a masterwork tankard.

I can buy an Adamantine Light mace, I should be able to buy a adamantine tankard.

I can buy a +1 light mace, I can buy a +1 tankard.

Is there somewhere that the PFS powers that be have ruled on this and I have missed it? I got a really neat barmaid figure with a tankard that is just begging me to make a TWF tankard fighter of Cayden.

The Exchange 5/5

Wregdar wrote:

If I treat it in all ways as a light mace, why can't I by a masterwork tankard?

I can buy a masterwork light mace, I should be able to make a masterwork tankard.

I can buy an Adamantine Light mace, I should be able to buy a adamantine tankard.

I can buy a +1 light mace, I can buy a +1 tankard.

Is there somewhere that the PFS powers that be have ruled on this and I have missed it? I got a really neat barmaid figure with a tankard that is just begging me to make a TWF tankard fighter of Cayden.

The fighting style only influences feats and class abilities that relate to weapon use, and does nothing to change how equipment is purchased. The problem is that a tankard isn't a weapon, and many upgrade options don't have pricing listed for equipment that aren't categorized as armor or weapons.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Wregdar wrote:

If I treat it in all ways as a light mace, why can't I by a masterwork tankard?

I can buy a masterwork light mace, I should be able to make a masterwork tankard.

I can buy an Adamantine Light mace, I should be able to buy a adamantine tankard.

I can buy a +1 light mace, I can buy a +1 tankard.

Is there somewhere that the PFS powers that be have ruled on this and I have missed it? I got a really neat barmaid figure with a tankard that is just begging me to make a TWF tankard fighter of Cayden.

The fighting style only influences feats and class abilities that relate to weapon use, and does nothing to change how equipment is purchased. The problem is that a tankard isn't a weapon, and many upgrade options don't have pricing listed for equipment that aren't categorized as armor or weapons.
core rulebook wrote:

Combat Feats

Any feat designated as a combat feat can be selected as a fighter’s bonus feat. This designation does not restrict characters of other classes from selecting these feats, assuming that they meet the prerequisites.
Quote:

weapon master's handbook wrote:

Divine Fighting Technique (Combat)

You have trained in the fighting technique of a deity.
Prerequisite: Same alignment as chosen deity.
Benefit: Select a deity. You can use that deity’s fighting
technique and receive any benefit for which you qualify, as
described in the Divine Fighting Techniques section below.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each
time you take this feat, it applies to a new deity’s divine
fighting technique.

....

Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard
Cayden Cailean is famous for wading into battle with a
tankard in his off hand.
Optional Replacement: A chaotic good fighter or
swashbuckler who worships Cayden Cailean can replace
proficiency with shields or bucklers with the following
initial benefit.
Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size.
If you engage in two-weapon fighting with
a rapier or light weapon in one hand and a tankard in the
other, you can drink a potion or other liquid from the
tankard or attempt to toss liquid from the tankard as a dirty
trick APG combat maneuver (such as to blind a foe) in place of
attacking with it. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity
for attempting a dirty trick maneuver with a tankard.

Nowhere in the the divine fighting feat or blade and tankard does it restrict the meaning of the word all.

So, can someone please point me to any clarifying text where this is expressly forbidden?

The definition of combat feat does not disallow it.

The reskinning rules do not apply because it's the feat itself that does the reskinning.

The equipment purchasing rules do not disallow it because in all way it is treated as a light mace.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Wregdar wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
Wregdar wrote:

If I treat it in all ways as a light mace, why can't I by a masterwork tankard?

I can buy a masterwork light mace, I should be able to make a masterwork tankard.

I can buy an Adamantine Light mace, I should be able to buy a adamantine tankard.

I can buy a +1 light mace, I can buy a +1 tankard.

Is there somewhere that the PFS powers that be have ruled on this and I have missed it? I got a really neat barmaid figure with a tankard that is just begging me to make a TWF tankard fighter of Cayden.

The fighting style only influences feats and class abilities that relate to weapon use, and does nothing to change how equipment is purchased. The problem is that a tankard isn't a weapon, and many upgrade options don't have pricing listed for equipment that aren't categorized as armor or weapons.
weapon master's handbook wrote:

Divine Fighting Technique (Combat)

You have trained in the fighting technique of a deity.
Prerequisite: Same alignment as chosen deity.
Benefit: Select a deity. You can use that deity’s fighting
technique and receive any benefit for which you qualify, as
described in the Divine Fighting Techniques section below.

Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each
time you take this feat, it applies to a new deity’s divine
fighting technique.

....

Cayden Cailean’s Blade and Tankard
Cayden Cailean is famous for wading into battle with a
tankard in his off hand.
Optional Replacement: A chaotic good fighter or
swashbuckler who worships Cayden Cailean can replace
proficiency with shields or bucklers with the following
initial benefit.
Initial Benefit: You can wield a tankard (or mug) as a
weapon, treating it in all ways as a light mace appropriate
for your size.
If you engage in two-weapon fighting with
a rapier or light weapon in one hand and a tankard in the
other, you can drink a potion or other liquid from the
tankard or attempt to toss liquid from the tankard as

...

Look the idea is very cute, but the feat only allows you to use a tankard like a weapon.

It does not allow you to buy a non-weapon object, as a masterwork weapon, just like your masterwork tool is not automagically a masterwork weapon as well.

Immagine the feat saying that the user can use a banana as a cestus, or the use can use a slightly used sponge as a shuriken...

The rules why non-weapon objects can't be purchased is not a PFS rule, among other places:

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

Even though some types of armor and shields can be

used as weapons, you can’t create a masterwork version of
such an item that confers an enhancement bonus on attack
rolls. However, you can create masterwork armor spikes
and shield spikes, which do confer their enhancement
bonus on attack rolls to attacks made with the spikes.
CRB wrote:

Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to

be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such
objects are not designed for this use, any creature that
uses an improvised weapon in combat is co nsidered to be
nonprof icient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls
made with that object. To determine the size ca tegory and
ap propriate damage for an improvised weapon, co mpare
its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to
f ind a re asonable match. An im provised weapon scores a
threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double da mage on
a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range
i ncrement of 10 feet.

You can buy a mithral mug for the appropriate price.

EDIT: Even while you are wielding it, it does not become a legal target for spells like magic weapon.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Neither of these apply, with the divine fighting, a tankard is neither a weapon or shield.

Nor is it an improvised weapon.

In fact, after comparing the tankard to a light mace the only advantage to the tankard is it weighs 3 lbs less. So, if one were to go ahead and do this, and a gm called shenanigans then as long as they had an additional 1500 gp per tankard laying around for that instance one would be good.

Not that I'm advocating one do this.

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Agent, Kentucky—Lexington

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If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".

The Exchange 5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".

Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".
Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.

Exactly, because a tankard could be taken somewhere that weapons aren't allowed, or could be "drawn" in a social situation so you start out armed.

You could certainly get a tankard made from special materials, but once you make it masterwork or give it a weapon enchantment, it's should be immediately recognizable as a weapon, and treated as such.

Scarab Sages 5/5

RainyDayNinja wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".
Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.

Exactly, because a tankard could be taken somewhere that weapons aren't allowed, or could be "drawn" in a social situation so you start out armed.

You could certainly get a tankard made from special materials, but once you make it masterwork or give it a weapon enchantment, it's should be immediately recognizable as a weapon, and treated as such.

which just begs the question...

if you smack something with a NON-weapon adamantine tankard, does it get by hardness less than 20?

The Exchange 5/5 Venture-Agent, Kentucky—Lexington

Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".
Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.

Then consider the ability to have table variance and the player should consider his mileage may vary. For what it's worth, I'm not using reskin rules. I'm making it clear that being a tankard doesn't get him discounts (like MW tankard is +50 gp and weapons are +300 gp.)

Scarab Sages 5/5

James Risner wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".
Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.
Then consider the ability to have table variance and the player should consider his mileage may vary. For what it's worth, I'm not using reskin rules. I'm making it clear that being a tankard doesn't get him discounts (like MW tankard is +50 gp and weapons are +300 gp.)

But... a Masterwork Tankard would not have a bonus "to hit" when used as a weapon, any more than a Masterwork Lute would have a bonus "to hit" when we bash something with it. The Lute would be good for playing music (+1 on Perform Strings), not on bashing people (gives new meaning to the term "clubbing" though...)

A Masterwork Tankard would have a bonus to ... ah... drinking? maybe even keeping a beverage cold/hot, preventing spillage, ease of carry... that sort of thing?

I mean, we don't give someone a bonus to Perform Percussion if they use a masterwork greatsword...

The Exchange 5/5

James Risner wrote:
Vinyc Kettlebek wrote:
James Risner wrote:
If you bought a +1 adamantine light mace and wanted to call it a tankard, I'd say "sure".
Doing with would go against the campaign's no reskinning rules.
Then consider the ability to have table variance and the player should consider his mileage may vary. For what it's worth, I'm not using reskin rules. I'm making it clear that being a tankard doesn't get him discounts (like MW tankard is +50 gp and weapons are +300 gp.)

The fighting style does nothing to change the fact that a tankard isn't a weapon, and is not eligible for upgrades that can only be placed on weapons.

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