I believe Origins attendees were going to get a chance to try out Mummy's Mask this weekend. I'd love to hear any thoughts on it: the selling mechanic, new characters, anything else new and noteworthy.
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Well, one of the big topics on the messageboard is that Examine now has some drawbacks. If you are required to Examine a certain amount of cards from your deck and you don't have enough, you die. If you need to do the same thing to the Blessings deck and there aren't enough, you lose the scenario.
So examination has consequences. And in this case, they're called Triggers. A big red rectangle around a card trait. Something happens when you examine this card. It can happen on any type of bane but it can also happen on boons. (Some of this info comes from the seminar with Paizo and Lone Shark.) Triggers now make scouting a two-edged sword. (Alahazra and Harsk beware!)
You'll see a lot more twists in Mummy's Mask. You'll see much more Undead and Mummies in this set. You'll embrace the idea of becoming tomb raiders and venturing into the resting places of the ancients.
While Invokes has been introduced in class decks already, Mummy's Mask embraces it in various powers. The idea that not only the boon you're trying to acquire or the bane you're trying to defeat contributes their traits but also the weapon or spell or power will contribute traits to the check and Invokes utilizes all those traits. Hard to describe but you'll get the hang of it.
After the demo and the seminar, I can't wait to play this set!
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Having ran the demos yesterday at Origins, I can confirm what Theryon and Vic said.
I'll also add that there is a new card type called Scourge. One type of Scourge are Curses, which get summoned by other cards and sit in front of you until they get removed, causing problems.
So, this is a third type of bane, then?
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So, this is a third type of bane, then?Having ran the demos yesterday at Origins, I can confirm what Theryon and Vic said.
I'll also add that there is a new card type called Scourge. One type of Scourge are Curses, which get summoned by other cards and sit in front of you until they get removed, causing problems.
Nope. Curses are given to players when they hit some condition. I know that's vague. It can happen on a failed check or by missing a check by a certain amount. It can be a condition of a scenario's power. Usually it's a punishment for something you've done. But it's not a card you encounter.
Like some cards fall under the heading of Support, Curses fall under Scourges.
Triggers now make scouting a two-edged sword. (Alahazra and Harsk beware!)
The big issue I have this concept is, it really can eat into some characters' viability. Up until now, the Powers section of a character card basically was "This is awesome stuff that this hero is awesome at!". Now it seems for the Harsks and Alahazras out there, it will be more like "Yeaah, this is a potentially good power, but it could also kill my character unexpectedly and/or cause all kinds of Hells for my whole party, so do I really need this in my life?"
I get the concept of balancing risk/reward probabilities when playing a Kohl of Uncanny Discernment, let's say, but IMHO using your character powers shouldn't be something that can punish you beyond your control.
It's not like I want/expect this to be changed, I just really hope it's balanced out with some "Good Stuff happens when you examine this card" in there.
Theryon's description got me actively hype for Mummy's Mask now, versus the sort of latent "oh, it'll be cool when that comes out" I've been experiencing as we plod through Season of the Righteous. Our pace of Pathfinder consumption slowed considerably with Wrath, and I think it had a lot to do with mechanical fatigue--we understand everything inside and out, and know how to bust these games too well. So I'm totally into the idea that MM is torquing the mechanics in new ways. All the talk of tomb raiding and curses makes me think there'll be a bigger focus on "weird" barriers, which is something I really dug about Skull & Shackles.
Also like Skull & Shackles, it seems like the stakes will be a little lower? The ridiculous power levels of Wrath were fun for a while, but the excitement of having a +9 to your Melee check in AD2 wore off pretty quick, so I'm totally down if MM ratchets that back a bit and gives you different ways to circumvent obstacles and feel powerful without relying too hard on pure numerical superiority.
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The ridiculous power levels of Wrath were fun for a while, but the excitement of having a +9 to your Melee check in AD2 wore off pretty quick, so I'm totally down if MM ratchets that back a bit and gives you different ways to circumvent obstacles and feel powerful without relying too hard on pure numerical superiority.
This why our group didn't do the final optional scenario in Wrath. The amount of time you spending adding stuff up on combat checks was draining. Im having flashbacks to mythic-charge-spending-starbow-fortune's-arrow-leryn-shuffled-in-plenty-of- blessings-adowyn right now.
Not to say the AP wasnt a blast, but turns got loooong.
I think folks will find Mummy's Mask is a great contrast to Wrath of the Righteous. They both have very different goals and stretch the system in very different directions. :)
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So, this is a third type of bane, then?Having ran the demos yesterday at Origins, I can confirm what Theryon and Vic said.
I'll also add that there is a new card type called Scourge. One type of Scourge are Curses, which get summoned by other cards and sit in front of you until they get removed, causing problems.
Nope. Curses are given to players when they hit some condition. I know that's vague. It can happen on a failed check or by missing a check by a certain amount. It can be a condition of a scenario's power. Usually it's a punishment for something you've done. But it's not a card you encounter.
Like some cards fall under the heading of Support, Curses fall under Scourges.
I am intrigued by this concept of Scourges, and I wish to learn more...
So, are there any other types of Scourges BESIDES Curses, currently?
You mentioned that a Scenario power may Curse a character who meets the trigger condition. Is there any other way (that you know of) that might bring a Curse into play? (Monster/Barrier powers spring to mind, 'cause those pesky Mummies LOVE their curses...)
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Yes, monsters and barriers can have Curses attached to them. But I don't have details how they would be triggered (pun not intended). Although not meeting a roll or not having the appropriate trait might be a factor.
I don't think I saw any other Scourges beyond Curses … yet.
And just because Examining might have consequences doesn't mean the ability to scout isn't worthwhile. There's only a small percentage of cards with triggers, from what I saw in the demo. You have Alahazra and Estra that have scouting abilities and they are still as powerful as in other sets. But sometimes that scouting causes the monster to pounce on you.
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One thing I found interesting from the demo was that there are two types of Basic blessings, and one of them isn't Divine.
Blessing of the Ancients is your standard one die or explore blessing that recharges if the top blessing discard is Basic. The other one is Blessing of the Elements, and I don't recall its game text but it only has the Basic trait.
I played the spiritualist iconic and her favored card type is a specific card. She starts with a Loot ally that must be in her starting hand. Not sure why it isn't a cohort.
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I played the spiritualist iconic and her favored card type is a specific card. She starts with a Loot ally that must be in her starting hand. Not sure why it isn't a cohort.
Vic told me at PaizoCon that it was because cohorts that got banished were removed from the game, and they didn't want that to happen to Honaire.
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One thing I found interesting from the demo was that there are two types of Basic blessings, and one of them isn't Divine.
Blessing of the Ancients is your standard one die or explore blessing that recharges if the top blessing discard is Basic. The other one is Blessing of the Elements, and I don't recall its game text but it only has the Basic trait.
Ancients: It's actually an Examine then Explore. And you're correct about recharging as long as the top card is Basic (re: Gods, Ancients or Elements).
Elements: Recharges if the check invokes any elemental power (Acid, Fire, Cold, Poison, etc.). Non-Divine blessing.
I played the spiritualist iconic and her favored card type is a specific card. She starts with a Loot ally that must be in her starting hand. Not sure why it isn't a cohort.
And Eliandra provided the reason for this. Honaire (the "E" at the end is pronounced) is the Ally's name. Estra's deceased husband.
Is there any information on the selling's mechanic ?
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I think folks will find Mummy's Mask is a great contrast to Wrath of the Righteous. They both have very different goals and stretch the system in very different directions. :)
Glad to hear this. Wrath virtually killed off Pathfinder in our house - we didn't bother with the optional scenario at the end of Ad6 for the group that did finish, and for our second group of characters (historically we've always run at least 2 groups through an AP when it comes out, because we got through Adventures so much quicker than they were released), we didn't even bother going back to play adventure 6.
We still get the class-decks to go through RotR and S&S now and again, and may pick up Season of the Runelords one day, but unless the pre-release articles gives us a good sense of Mummy's Mask being less brutal and better scaled, I don't know whether we'll bother.
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Is there any information on the selling's mechanic ?
If you're talking about the Traders, we were told they were still working on that part. In essence, at the end of the scenario, you'll be able to take the cards you've acquired and be able to trade some to vendors for other random cards of the same type. (Weapons for weapons and items for items, etc.) Don't have details and we weren't exposed to the actual Traders yet.
Ooooh! Going to the market place! Can rogues steal stuff?One tried. They cut off her hand. -5 on Dexterity.
I read that as
One tried. They cut off her HEAD. -5 on Dexterity.
Makes for much better story...
Didn't get a demo while at Origins - which Mike actually admonished me for at the bar on Saturday night. ;)
But did at least peak over someone's shoulder a couple times. Saw the new blessings that have been summarized above. Read a couple locations, a couple cards as they were being returned to the box. Nothing that had triggers or totally new functionality though.
but unless the pre-release articles gives us a good sense of Mummy's Mask being less brutal and better scaled, I don't know whether we'll bother.
I really wish it wasn't this way but my group is headed this direction too.
Wrath had some particularly demanding scenarios and banes, Billious bottles, villains with only charisma to defeat and no party make up to deal with that.
It was a slog. If MM is more of the same kind of punishment they're out. Even though I *Really* want to play.
I'm crossing my fingers that this lets up on the gas a bit.
I'm liking what I'm hearing though.
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but unless the pre-release articles gives us a good sense of Mummy's Mask being less brutal and better scaled, I don't know whether we'll bother.I really wish it wasn't this way but my group is headed this direction too.
Wrath had some particularly demanding scenarios and banes, Billious bottles, villains with only charisma to defeat and no party make up to deal with that.
It was a slog. If MM is more of the same kind of punishment they're out. Even though I *Really* want to play.
I'm crossing my fingers that this lets up on the gas a bit.
I'm liking what I'm hearing though.
Completely different directions. For both Skull & Shackles and Wrath of the Righteous, I completed the organized play seasons (Season of the Shackles and Season of the Righteous) but never completed the actual adventure paths. Mummy's Mask is the first one since Rise of the Runelords that I definitely want to work on the adventure path as well as the OP Season of the Mummy.
As far as being brutal, I find that descriptor to be extremely subjective. I think that MM will be more interesting than WotR. I think it will be a bit more strategic than WotR. I think there will be mechanics that put a twist on things. Some "brutal", possibly. Curses are not fun to have on you by any means. But I doubt we'll see some of the demons and god-like beings we saw in the Worldwound setting.
No, I think it'll be a "push your luck" style thing where you'll have to be a lot more cautious about your risk assessments. This is good - because risk assessment is actually a huge part of the game.
Some people, however, just only enjoy the loot collection aspect of the game and I suspect those people won't be satisfied by this type of gameplay. They may be interested in the merchant thing cause that gives them more chances at loot.
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The loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.
Wrath was not that fun because it removed boon-collecting from your "risk assessment." The question: "Can I save this blessing to acquire a really awesome item?" was always answered with "No." Many don't like Runelords because the answer to that same question was always "Yes." S&S was the best because that question was usually "Maybe."
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The loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.
Wrath was not that fun because it removed boon-collecting from your "risk assessment." The question: "Can I save this blessing to acquire a really awesome item?" was always answered with "No." Many don't like Runelords because the answer to that same question was always "Yes." S&S was the best because that question was usually "Maybe."
As always, Calthaer is incorrect. The best part of the game is absolutely decimating combat checks against monsters. :-P
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If only there was a monster that rewarded you with multiple boons when you decimated it.
As always, Calthaer is incorrect. The best part of the game is absolutely decimating combat checks against monsters. :-PThe loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.
Wrath was not that fun because it removed boon-collecting from your "risk assessment." The question: "Can I save this blessing to acquire a really awesome item?" was always answered with "No." Many don't like Runelords because the answer to that same question was always "Yes." S&S was the best because that question was usually "Maybe."
Is that where you roll a tenth of your expected result?
If only there was a monster that rewarded you with multiple boons when you decimated it.
That Monster is commonly referred to as the Piñata
It will be seen in an upcoming Aztec themed path
If only there was a monster that rewarded you with multiple boons when you decimated it.
I'll take a Goblin Keelhaulin' any turn of the week :)
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Goblin Pinata Golem would be an awesome card.
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As far as being brutal, I find that descriptor to be extremely subjective.
Brutal in the space of this game for my group consists of:
Multiple banes that deal damage in such a mechanic as to make any armor or damage mitigation useless. Like Discard/Bury/Banish from the top of your deck, or discard hand etc. Armor is already a tough sell, this didn't make it any better.
Banes that have no skill check to defeat but continuously deal damage for possibly infinite duration. Like Billious bottle or S&S storm (although storm was far more painless and a good challenge as opposed to an unavoidable pain generator for all present on each turn.)
Banes that necessitate a certain party makeup. In AP5 a villain had only a high charisma check and required a 4 person party with no high charisma to rebuild a couple decks to reliably handle the villain, it wasn't met with enthusiasm that some would have to get items/blessings banished so that it would be possible to take her on. This is fine for monsters or barriers! Siren is good fun and fair play! It's great when banes, especially villains reward characters for having a high check in a skill, but outright requiring it for progression in a villain is a line in the sand.
Along that same vein the army checks were great fun but encouraged certain parties over others, and the acrobatics check on one of them was baffling. We were fine with them but I can see how some parties might be very boned. My group liked them but were also ready for them.
Also magic fullisade. Ouch. Only one copy of something like this pls.
Also demonic horde's capability to gang up on one or two party members. Especially if they are casters this was trying since it could happen outside their turn.
Those are the easiest to remember parts of Wrath that were 2spooky4me
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ryanshowseason2, let's see if I can answer some of your stuff.
First, mental damage will always be not reduced and I don't know if there are many banes doing mental damage. However, there is a strong prevalence for poison damage from some of what I saw. (Which is preventable.) However, whereas armor in RotR was not great nor in the early class decks, armor has gotten more multipurpose in the later class decks as well as from WotR on.
Second, I think you're going to see those types of barriers in each set. S&S and WotR have them. I expect to see some sand storm thingie in MM.
Third, MM has a lot of undead. So expect (lots of) monsters to be immune to Mental and Poison traits. And I would expect that the tomb raider feel will rely on Dexterity, Stealth, Acrobatics and/or Disable for barriers that not every character will be good at. You're always going to find certain characters are not suited for every scenario or even adventure. That's the problem with choice.
Fourth, sorry but I don't know if there are any armies in MM but I don't expect that mechanic to rear it's ugly head in MM. I would expect to see more banes that affect multiple characters at a location, though.
As for the rest, it remains to be seen. The feel of the characters and the demo is not like WotR. While it won't be back-to-the-basics of RotR, I don't expect to see the massive numbers I saw with WotR with mythic charges and d20s flying around.
And I do recall the bane ryric is talking about but the name escapes me. I'd expect banes and boons that reward you for not rolling too high.
As far as being brutal, I find that descriptor to be extremely subjective.Brutal in the space of this game for my group consists of:
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LOL. I several times postponed writing pretty much the same response. Thanks.
I'll just add a couple of things:
- banes that are likely to hand-wipe you off-turn: for our purpose, I'll assume even casters have at least 1 combat spell. So, Skeleton Horde is ok (theoretically, it can also had-wipe you, I know), but Demon Horde stomping a caster with 2 or more demons is not OK; ditto the abominable Arboreal Blight, which in a 6-man party throws 12 (!!!) cards to the trash, even before we start talking combat
- horde banes, that stall the game - again, Arboreal Blight and Demon Horde; contrast with Skeleton Horde, where pretty much everyone knows what they're rolling and their odds, and we can all just throw the dice simultaneously, pretty much. OTOH, AB and DH grind the game to a stop - first, evaluate everyone's odds (AND what everyone will throw away for AB); then, who'll encounter first; then see the outcome of that encounter; then evaluate anew... 'Hey, wasn't that fun!' said no one ever.
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- horde banes, that stall the game - again, Arboreal Blight and Demon Horde; contrast with Skeleton Horde, where pretty much everyone knows what they're rolling and their odds, and we can all just throw the dice simultaneously, pretty much. OTOH, AB and DH grind the game to a stop - first, evaluate everyone's odds (AND what everyone will throw away for AB); then, who'll encounter first; then see the outcome of that encounter; then evaluate anew... 'Hey, wasn't that fun!' said no one ever.
This came up in here.
I'm really interested to see how the kineticist class works in the card game. From what I understand about the RPG (ie pretty much nothing) constitution is a big stat for them. And they take damage to bump up their blasts. They sound funky.
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The loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.As always, Calthaer is incorrect. The best part of the game is absolutely decimating combat checks against monsters. :-P
Yes, but my post got two likes because I am essentially correct (although I admit that I reside on the far side of the boon-greed play-style preference). Here's to hoping that Mummy's Mask's merchants will aid in my hoarding quest.
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Yes, but my post got two likes because I am essentially correct (although I admit that I reside on the far side of the boon-greed play-style preference). Here's to hoping that Mummy's Mask's merchants will aid in my hoarding quest.The loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.As always, Calthaer is incorrect. The best part of the game is absolutely decimating combat checks against monsters. :-P
I have a feeling that you'll be a fan of the merchants system. :)
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I have a feeling that you'll be a fan of the merchants system. :)Yes, but my post got two likes because I am essentially correct (although I admit that I reside on the far side of the boon-greed play-style preference). Here's to hoping that Mummy's Mask's merchants will aid in my hoarding quest.The loot collection aspect of the game is the very best aspect of the game, albeit not the only aspect.As always, Calthaer is incorrect. The best part of the game is absolutely decimating combat checks against monsters. :-P
While I hope they bring a merchant to the demo, I also realize it doesn't make sense. I'm wondering how it will work in the end.
Banes that necessitate a certain party makeup...
Along that same vein the army ...
encouraged certain parties over others, and the acrobatics check on one of them was baffling. We were fine with them but I can see how some parties might be very boned.
Ugh. I'd successfully repressed the memories of the Abysmal Armies.
That card should just have said "Go back to the start of the campaign, and ensure that your party contains all of the following skills, as boosted by your mythic path (including acrobatics). If you did not randomly choose this, 5 months ago, you lose the game."
Thanks for reminding me of the point when Wrath went from "a bit of slog, but still kind of fun sometimes" to "I never want to play this with my 6-character group again"
First, mental damage will always be not reduced and I don't know if there are many banes doing mental damage. However, there is a strong prevalence for poison damage from some of what I saw. (Which is preventable.) However, whereas armor in RotR was not great nor in the early class decks, armor has gotten more multipurpose in the later class decks as well as from WotR on.
Ah I wasn't really speaking to the different damage types which I have no problem with.
More speaking to banes that did damage without CALLING it damage and were thereby not able to be mitigated. ie...
Discard from the top of your deck
Bury a card
Banish a card
Discard from your hand
Bury from your discard pile
and so on.
These effects aren't any type of damage like combat, fire ice etc. Not a whole lot can stop them, most damage mitigation in the game is based around types of damage and only when it is called "damage".
It's these tricky little effects that bug me if they have no theme surrounding them.
Why is this carrion golem causing me to discard off the top of my deck? Is it hitting me? Armor should help that! Is it letting off noxious fumes? Poison damage reduction should remedy it! Is it putting off psychic waves of the dead it is comprised of? Ok that's mental and I can't stop it.
But if it just tells you, hey you're damaged because you saw this thing or didn't make X - random check then it feels like kind of a cop out.
Sometimes it works like the bane monster "Traitor" who makes you bury an ally. The theme is all there and you understand what is happening and why, even if it is non-mitigatable damage.
But some banes in WotR felt more like the game saying "You are damaged, but you are not sure how or why that happened. I assure you though that you were definitely damaged... In some way."
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Ah I wasn't really speaking to the different damage types which I have no problem with.
More speaking to banes that did damage without CALLING it damage and were thereby not able to be mitigated. ie...
Discard from the top of your deck
Bury a card
Banish a card
Discard from your hand
Bury from your discard pile
and so on.
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Ahh, gotcha.
From what I saw, there are usually checks involved before you would take "damage" listed above. Either BYA or AYA. Also, with Triggers, bad things will happen if you're not ready.
So if you're asking if MM removes all of this, nope. But I do think there are at least checks involved to help alleviate the "damage" taken. And don't forget that leaving curses on yourself is most definitely a bad thing.