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All I ask is that you make some form of Thri-Kreen available to play, and that you don't kill of the almighty Tengu race.
I'm curious: What is it about the thri-kreen that you find particularly intriguing? What would be sufficient to have a race boe "some form of Thri-Kreen"? Is it the non-humanoidness? The culture? The four arms? Some combination of factors?
Aren't the Thri-Kreen owned by WotC?
Formians would work and are open content.
Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.
I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.
In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.
I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.
If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.
All I ask is that you make some form of Thri-Kreen available to play, and that you don't kill of the almighty Tengu race.I'm curious: What is it about the thri-kreen that you find particularly intriguing? What would be sufficient to have a race boe "some form of Thri-Kreen"? Is it the non-humanoidness? The culture? The four arms? Some combination of factors?
They are humanoid insects. How is that NOT sci-fi material?
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They are humanoid insects. How is that NOT sci-fi material?All I ask is that you make some form of Thri-Kreen available to play, and that you don't kill of the almighty Tengu race.I'm curious: What is it about the thri-kreen that you find particularly intriguing? What would be sufficient to have a race boe "some form of Thri-Kreen"? Is it the non-humanoidness? The culture? The four arms? Some combination of factors?
I wasn't saying thri-kreen would be inappropriate. I was trying to see if there is something already out there that is close enough to thri-kreen to be to your liking. Or, what could be modified or home-brewed to be sufficiently thri-kreeny. [I think the formians published so far are too powerful to be a PC, but I could be wrong.]
I wasn't saying thri-kreen would be inappropriate. I was trying to see if there is something already out there that is close enough to thri-kreen to be to your liking. Or, what could be modified or home-brewed to be sufficiently thri-kreeny. [I think the formians published so far are too powerful to be a PC, but I could be wrong.]They are humanoid insects. How is that NOT sci-fi material?All I ask is that you make some form of Thri-Kreen available to play, and that you don't kill of the almighty Tengu race.I'm curious: What is it about the thri-kreen that you find particularly intriguing? What would be sufficient to have a race boe "some form of Thri-Kreen"? Is it the non-humanoidness? The culture? The four arms? Some combination of factors?
While I don't require Thri-kreen specifically, the general idea of a humanoid insect is what I'm asking for (Thri-kreen just happen to best match the picture).
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All I ask is that you make some form of Thri-Kreen available to play, and that you don't kill of the almighty Tengu race.I'm curious: What is it about the thri-kreen that you find particularly intriguing? What would be sufficient to have a race boe "some form of Thri-Kreen"? Is it the non-humanoidness? The culture? The four arms? Some combination of factors?
Yes.
Might there be core support for point-based magic instead of the long dead horse that is Vancian? Maybe even properly named Psionics?
Important question: will Gen Con produce anything juicy for Starfinder? Or at the very least, will 3pp get enough information to be able to print or hold currently developing sci-fi Pathfinder products?
Important question: will Gen Con produce anything juicy for Starfinder? Or at the very least, will 3pp get enough information to be able to print or hold currently developing sci-fi Pathfinder products?
I think some of those companies are already having some behind the scene discussion with Paizo.
But yeah I expect SOME sort of gencon news. It's good marketing sense to keep interest up with more nuggets of info at this point.
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[sarcasm]Can this game be all things to all people?[/sarcasm]
OK making some assumptions here for the question I want to ask, if I am totally off base so be it but I think this is an interesting topic:
Since the tech in the game is scifi space level then communications tech will probably be so as well in many places. There will be items and systems (at least on some local levels) analogous to smart phones, the internet, news broadcasts, ear microphones's for squad communication in combat, etc.
One of the biggest things that separates the modern world from more ancient times is the rapid transmission and accessibility of information. In our world the overall trend has been (in general but not universally) that advanced technology and education breeds higher general health care, a more informed individual and more advanced concepts of 'human rights'.
I am going to guess that for the most part there is probably not one over arching government spanning the stars of the setting, so it would be really handy to know what the 'basic laws of the galaxy' are.
I am gonna guess that killing someone in a fight in a local bar or shooting down that roving group of orc thugs is gonna be a more serious situation than it was a few thousand years ago on old Golarion in this new high tech world/universe. Law enforcement will be a much more regular situation to be dealt with in more civilized regions.
Will there be a section in the rules covering how, generally, the law interacts with adventurers, their weaponry, spellpower and companions and the consequences of their actions?
Will it cover if any classes will have any specific legal rights, powers or obligations in the setting (Paladins I am looking at you here).
Also, when you make AP's, will they have a brief section in each one covering the 'local laws' of the setting/region/planet/whatever that that AP will be covering?
Thanks for this thread by the way. :)
OK making some assumptions here for the question I want to ask, if I am totally off base so be it but I think this is an interesting topic:
Since the tech in the game is scifi space level then communications tech will probably be so as well in many places. There will be items and systems (at least on some local levels) analogous to smart phones, the internet, news broadcasts, ear microphones's for squad communication in combat, etc.
One of the biggest things that separates the modern world from more ancient times is the rapid transmission and accessibility of information. In our world the overall trend has been (in general but not universally) that advanced technology and education breeds higher general health care, a more informed individual and more advanced concepts of 'human rights'.
I am going to guess that for the most part there is probably not one over arching government spanning the stars of the setting, so it would be really handy to know what the 'basic laws of the galaxy' are.
I am gonna guess that killing someone in a fight in a local bar or shooting down that roving group of orc thugs is gonna be a more serious situation than it was a few thousand years ago on old Golarion in this new high tech world/universe. Law enforcement will be a much more regular situation to be dealt with in more civilized regions.
Will there be a section in the rules covering how, generally, the law interacts with adventurers, their weaponry, spellpower and companions and the consequences of their actions?
Will it cover if any classes will have any specific legal rights, powers or obligations in the setting (Paladins I am looking at you here).
Also, when you make AP's, will they have a brief section in each one covering the 'local laws' of the setting/region/planet/whatever that that AP will be covering?
Thanks for this thread by the way. :)
I suggest playing a game known as "Nova Praxis". It's sci-fi setting, uses the FATE core system, and is one of my favorites (besides pathfinder). It covers these exact issues you just brought up, and in fact these issues are some of the game's main plot. Relatively new btw, that's why you probably haven't heard of it.
Sorry about the advert guys, he just kinda quoted the game's rulebook, found it too good an opportunity to pass up. Feel free to delete this if you feel te need to, mods/admins.
My favorite setting was Star*Drive for the Alternity system. I liked that there were lots of different factions so I'd like to see that in Starfinder too.
Also, It would be great if you could get Hero Lab involved as early as possible as our group has become far too lazy to make characters the old fashion way.
I'd prefer to see a Star Wars style of communication network. No internet whatsoever, but some ability for powerful institutions to speak across a distance.
Too much internet on every world requires totally different skills and a type of cyber-game that I'm not interested in.
I'd prefer to see a Star Wars style of communication network. No internet whatsoever, but some ability for powerful institutions to speak across a distance.
Too much internet on every world requires totally different skills and a type of cyber-game that I'm not interested in.
Actually, Star Wars did have it's own version of the internet. It wasn't seen in the movies, but in the books and clone wars series it is present.
Actually, Star Wars did have it's own version of the internet. It wasn't seen in the movies, but in the books and clone wars series it is present.I'd prefer to see a Star Wars style of communication network. No internet whatsoever, but some ability for powerful institutions to speak across a distance.
Too much internet on every world requires totally different skills and a type of cyber-game that I'm not interested in.
I knew someone was going to say that! I've only watched the movies - the level of Internet / long distance communications in the movies is what I'd like to see.
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I'd prefer to see a Star Wars style of communication network. No internet whatsoever, but some ability for powerful institutions to speak across a distance.
Too much internet on every world requires totally different skills and a type of cyber-game that I'm not interested in.
I'd rather there be internet like computers that required a research check or something to use as an option instead of knowledge checks. I agree that not having a cyber-hacking subsystem is the way to go, though allowing a hacking skill (separate from a more mechanical disable device) to allow for some hacking would be good.
You could still have lots of areas "off the grid" which didn't have local internets, and the PCs wouldn't be able to use them, like on newly discovered planets, derelict space stations with no power, etc.
... lots of stuff about communication and laws...I suggest playing a game known as "Nova Praxis". It's sci-fi setting, uses the FATE core system, and is one of my favorites (besides pathfinder). It covers these exact issues you just brought up, and in fact these issues are some of the game's main plot. Relatively new btw, that's why you probably haven't heard of it.
Sorry about the advert guys, he just kinda quoted the game's rulebook, found it too good an opportunity to pass up. Feel free to delete this if you feel te need to, mods/admins.
I'll look into it. It's got me curiou. But as I am currently semi disabled and on a limited entertainment budget, I am saving for Starfinder. Plus my regular play group only plays PF. For some, learning a whole new system would be a Herculean Task for them. Getting them to even consider space fantasy alone will be hard enough.
I'd prefer to see a Star Wars style of communication network. No internet whatsoever, but some ability for powerful institutions to speak across a distance.
(snip)
Well, I'd go with:
- Technological communication can't be faster than light, unless- FTL-communication uses 'hyperspace'-relais (one-way)
- fastest way to communicate: Magic
Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.
I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.
In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.
I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.
If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.
Well, Kaijus are probably around Colossal size, or just a bit bigger than that. They should be possible to damage by normal sized heroes, probably.
However, we are not talking about the same scale here. Luke Skywalker destroying a AT-AT with his lightsaber? Totally cool. Luke Skywalkerdestroying the Death Star with his lightsaber? That's enterely different.
Independent question: any chance Starfinder will try to address rules for sizes above colossal? Once we're dealing with starships and, theoretially, creatures the size of asteroids, it would be cool to have them actually be different at a fundamental level - kind of like swarms, where they're too small to be harmed by weapons - perhaps creatures above colossal are too large to be harmed by weapons more than 4 size categories smaller. There was a 3.5 book back in the day that had some above colossal rules, ah, Immortals Handbook - Epic Bestiary.
I seem to recall a mention of an attempt as part of the mythic rules (maybe it was along with kaiju), but with the design team deciding it was too large a task to sneak in. That's based on hazy recollection of old board posts, of course, the reality is probably different.
In any event, it's been a hole since kaiju were introduced; be cool to have it filled.
I would hate if they made larger colossal monsters/kaiju immune to smaller weapons and it wouldn't make sense if they even did that. Your overall ability to harm something should be determined by CR, not what size they are. That's the whole point in having very high AC, DR, and other resistances, to make something seem invincible to weaker creature.
If you don't like the idea that very high level PCs can harm Kaiju-like creatures, it's important to understand these PCs aren't ordinary warriors, like something you would see in a movie like Gladiator or Braveheart. They're godlike beings that are meant to accomplish the seemingly impossible.
Well, Kaijus are probably around Colossal size, or just a bit bigger than that. They should be possible to damage by normal sized heroes, probably.
However, we are not talking about the same scale here. Luke Skywalker destroying a AT-AT with his lightsaber? Totally cool. Luke Skywalkerdestroying the Death Star with his lightsaber? That's enterely different.
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR.
As for the Luke example, maybe he's not powerful enough. Just because one popular character can't do something doesn't mean all characters should have this limitation. How about if we replace Luke Skywalker with the Hulk? It seems a lot more possible now.
Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.
Understand that I'm not trying to be argumentative, but pointlessly having rules that limits characters like that based on their size makes no sense. Why have a CR system, then?
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CR
Well, the entire point of this conversation is that someone suggested that this should change, because there is too much "room" for colossal to fit all monsters from Godzilla to a planet-sized Green Lantern. I mean, it's the same -size modifier to hit a building or to hit the planet where that building is?
Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.
It's completelly different to attack a nuclear generator inside a planet sized Battle Station, which can be done by anyone, and then the nuclear reactor exploding, than the same character hacking and slashing the Death Star into pieces.
The Hulk analogy is good, the problem is that players who chose to play with a scoundrel wielding a laser pistol will also be able to destroy planet sized battle stations (or, you know, Absalom itself), assuming the game is somewhat balanced and "scoundrel" and "raging barbarian" classes are in the same ballpark of damage.
I'm totally pro-epic stuff, and I understand that high level characters are close to demigods. I'm tottally fond of high level characters punching Shai Hulud to death, slicing Godzilla into pieces, and sniping Galactus with a single well placed headshot. BUT in a setting so open as this, there are some things that are far beyond that, such as planet-sized creatures, Solar-system sized ships, or Galaxy-sized energy beings older than gods.
Sure, we could handle those by giving them DR 1million\- and sixty million hp, and then making things like the Death Star cannon, or giant sized anti-matter missiles or whatever doing 2 million d6.
But it'll be a lot of die to roll, when it's not needed, imho.
EDIT: said otherwise: by rules, stone has 15hp per inch of thickness. How many HP does Alderaan has, then? How many d6 does the Death Star need to roll to destroy it? What's the point of having the Death Star cannon and a laser pistol shot sharing the same "scale" of damage?
stuff
If you were to emulate the deathstar in a pathfinder like game, you would treat the place as location, but give certain key structures like the power core and such hitpoints, and have PC's be able to destroy that.
I mean In Pathfinder, yeah a high level character can kill a Kaiju. But a High level character generally can't wipe out a major city just by swinging his sword at random pieces of ground or buildings.
I will be curious to see how they deal with starship combat, or if a lot of that is just kind of avoided in the same way Pathfinder generally doesn't spend much time on large scale mass combat.
Colossal is the maximum size category, the only thing that changes from there on is size and reach, which is not influenced by CRWell, the entire point of this conversation is that someone suggested that this should change, because there is too much "room" for colossal to fit all monsters from Godzilla to a planet-sized Green Lantern. I mean, it's the same -size modifier to hit a building or to hit the planet where that building is?
Not to mention that a single X-wing destroyed the Death Star. It's not like the X-wing had to be the size of a planet to do this. I know it was a chain reaction, but the end result is still the end result.It's completelly different to attack a nuclear generator inside a planet sized Battle Station, which can be done by anyone, and then the nuclear reactor exploding, than the same character hacking and slashing the Death Star into pieces.
The Hulk analogy is good, the problem is that players who chose to play with a scoundrel wielding a laser pistol will also be able to destroy planet sized battle stations (or, you know, Absalom itself), assuming the game is somewhat balanced and "scoundrel" and "raging barbarian" classes are in the same ballpark of damage.
I'm totally pro-epic stuff, and I understand that high level characters are close to demigods. I'm tottally fond of high level characters punching Shai Hulud to death, slicing Godzilla into pieces, and sniping Galactus with a single well placed headshot. BUT in a setting so open as this, there are some things that are far beyond that, such as planet-sized creatures, Solar-system sized ships, or Galaxy-sized energy beings older than gods.
Sure, we could handle those by giving them DR 1million\- and sixty million hp, and then making things like the Death Star cannon, or giant sized anti-matter missiles or whatever doing 2 million d6.
But it'll be a lot of die to roll, when it's not needed, imho.EDIT: said otherwise: by rules, stone has 15hp per inch of thickness....
I'm not saying that characters need the ability to blow up planets and space stations with a pistol, or at all, but if they decide to add in creatures the size of an asteroid they should be beatable. Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it? That's no better than the GM putting themselves in the game as an enemy, and honestly it's just as lazy and unthoughtful. Now I know you're not telling me that's the way you want it, but that was my main issue when dealing with super sized creatures. Now that little issue could be solved by just not putting them in the game in general, not that I think they were in the first place, rather than have them there and basically say "you want to fight it? Nope. Too big."
I think statting the Death Star cannon is a lot more simple than it seems. While I think the base damage would be very high, I think there would be a lot more description than just pure numbers. I would have it as a high base damage and an object destruction effect on a colossal scale. This type of ruling is not much different than disintegrate. Disintegrate deals a maximum of 40d6, but it can still instantly destroy a 10-ft cube of nonliving matter, such as a stone wall. We all know disintegrate doesn't do 1,800 damage, but it still can destroy that much stone. Another good example is a Great Red Wyrm's melt stone ability that can target a 60-ft radius of stone to melt. The breath weapons base damage 24d10 damage, but it can still melt 21,600 hp worth of rock in one shot.
stuffIf you were to emulate the deathstar in a pathfinder like game, you would treat the place as location, but give certain key structures like the power core and such hitpoints, and have PC's be able to destroy that.
I mean In Pathfinder, yeah a high level character can kill a Kaiju. But a High level character generally can't wipe out a major city just by swinging his sword at random pieces of ground or buildings.
I will be curious to see how they deal with starship combat, or if a lot of that is just kind of avoided in the same way Pathfinder generally doesn't spend much time on large scale mass combat.
Yeah, targeting weak points in a very large structure or vehicle is how I would handle it. I feel that it's the same way for larger monsters, in some fashion, but completely abstracted. Though I obviously have no issue with a medium creature completely overpowering a planetoid size monster because it's simply too powerful.
Sure, a high level martial has no real ability to swing his weapon a few times to destroy a city, but that just means they would have to take their time, I guess. Destroying cities is not much of an accomplishment compared to some of the things mentioned in certain creatures descriptions. Behemoths, for example, are said to have destroyed entire worlds because they're simply unstoppable. These same creatures can be solo'd by a single powerful PC.
But yeah, that's pretty much my whole opinion on big stuff, haha.
Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?
Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
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Why include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardness
So vehicles should be the new Big Six, except even more so, since even Pathfinder doesn't say you can't do anything without an amulet of natural armor?
Well, for space Combat, sure, you'll need a starfighter or ship of some kind.
Did you expect to fight Tie Fighters and Klingon Birds of Prey flying in space with an astronaut suit and doing flurry of blows with your bare hands against ships flying at near light speed?
Spaceships in a space game are like pirate ships in a pirate game. Pretty much expected.
Edit: also a big difference with the big six is that yuou are "forced" to buy the big six. Lke did not buy an Xwing to fight the Death Star, or a landspeeder to fight AT-ATs in Hoth. He was assigned to them, as part of his adventure. Just like James T. Kirk snd Spock did not buy the USS Enterprise. But yes,. If the adventure includes a space fight (and I expect those to be common), then you'll need a space fighter.
Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardnessWhy include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp. Imagine the HP of a submarine. Or a battleship. Or a carrier. Or a Space carrier. Or a Space Battle Station. We are talking about MILLIONS of Hp. It's boring as hell to roll enough dice to deplete that. It's easier just change the scale. Otherwise, damage becomes impossible to handle. Currently a laser pistola does 1d8. Láser rifle 2d6. Láser cannon, up to 6d6. A rocket launcher, 12d6. What about a hellfire missile? A tomahawk cruise missile? What about ICBM? Or nuclear weapons? Probably the Death Star should survive *a few* nuclear weapons, just becsuse if size (not counting chsin reactions in wesk spot)
In mechwarrior, a normal rifle has just s chance to do 1point of damage vs a mech. A mech Medium Laser wipes five humans per hit. And mechs are actually small. Dropships are what we are talking about here.
Besides, sounds too much like the GM saying 'oh, you thought you were competent, have something you can't do anything against without using this subsystem, you've been paying your feat taxes and skill taxes and upgrading your spaceship, riiiiiight?' as all the players swear as their characters become useless
Really? Your GM puts your Jedi in a Star fighter battle, abd that's your feeling? It's not "we are doing a space battle because this is Star Wars and you know, there is a starship battle in every single SW film and he wants to get that feel" but "my GM hates me and don't want me to use my optimized light saber Skill"?
When did Star Wars enter this? I would have completely refused to even play in a Star Wars game, so I can't imagine that ever arising in the first place...Besides, sounds too much like the GM saying 'oh, you thought you were competent, have something you can't do anything against without using this subsystem, you've been paying your feat taxes and skill taxes and upgrading your spaceship, riiiiiight?' as all the players swear as their characters become useless
Really? Your GM puts your Jedi in a Star fighter battle, abd that's your feeling? It's not "we are doing a space battle because this is Star Wars and you know, there is a starship battle in every single SW film and he wants to get that feel" but "my GM hates me and don't want me to use my optimized light saber Skill"?
There is also ship to ship or vehicke to vehicle Combat in Star Trek, Battlestar Galáctica, Babylon 5, Battle tech, firefly, WH40K, and a lot of other examples of the genre that probably will be in the game. Mainly becsuse the post that snnounced the game tslks about Spaceships and armadas doing space blockades.
Would ship to ship Combat be required? Of course not. Just like Energy Drain monsters aren't required in PF, you can have a full AP and never face one. Your GM might never use one in his story, just like he might never use a demon, or a dragon. But I'm pretty sure that a space game will have Spaceships,and I'm prerty sure than to fight Spaceships you'll need Spaceships
Maybe you don't need a vehicle, just vehicle sized damage.
I'm thinking now of how AD&D handled army to army Combat in Birhtright. When in mass Combat you could use Realm Spells, and Magic Missile became "Rain of Magic Missile" and could do 1 "army hit damage", instead of 5d4+5 normal hp. You could cast "invisible unit" on your batallion, and so on. Maybe while in a ship, empowered by the ship magic engine, you can enhance your magic/psionic/whatever ability so your invisibility spell becomes "ship invisibility" and you can channel your fireball into a "photon torpedo sized fireball"
You might not be able to kill a AT-AT with your infantry sized laser pistol, but you could use your Fat Boy to throw a Mini Nuke at it. Your rapid fire feat might work with your ship's Battery of Naval Cannons. Point blank shot could work at 30 "space parsecs", the average short range for ship combat.
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Also, not every campaign would need this. You can do a perfectly good sci-fi type campaign that's set in a single world if you wanted. The default assumptions of Starfinder sound like you'd be having space exploration and battles and a ship would be a requirement, but not needed for other campaigns.
You could also do a campaign where vehicles aren't owned by the PCs, but their sponsor (mega corp/military, or whatever) owned them and operated them, but dropped the PCs to worlds to do their missions.
Just because the default campaign assumes ships doesn't mean you have to tell a story that includes them.
That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp.Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardnessWhy include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
Hah, there's no way that's a WW1 tank. Did you look at its dimensions? It's the size of a small building.
I would guess starship combat would be an optional system; after all, lots of science fiction stories don't involve large scale combat.
Hah, there's no way that's a WW1 tank. Did you look at its dimensions? It's the size of a small building.That's more or less what we are suggesting. "Ship scale" weapons having some short of rule to make them necessary to fight ship scale threats. DR\ship is a way. I don't think DR 50 will suffice, tho. A WWI tank in Pathfinder has almost 2000hp.Or just give them hardness 50, but ship based weapons ignore 50 points of hardnessWhy include in a monster like that if the game is going to tell me that I can't fight it?Who says you can't fight, and beat, a super Star destroyer, a Borg Cube, or a Death Star sized Space Whale????
Those are great challenges! You SHOULD be doing that kind of thibgs!
But you should fight that planet sized alien with your Millenium Falcon turbo blasters or your USS enterprise photon torpedoes. Not with your laser rifle, or your bare hands becsuse you have 2 monk levels
It's actually a Tsar Tank
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Getting back on topic a bit. I noticed of the confirmed races, or almost confirmed in the case of the Lashunta, there's a lot of of + int and +dex modifiers flying around, 3 of each out of 5 races to be exact. Now the -stats run the gamut, but I'm curious if the remaining race will branch out a bit, will races we know from Pathfinder be getting stat reworks for better balance, or what?
I get the feeling races will be reworked at least a little bit, seeing how strong the Kasatha are in Pathfinder. If they're to possibly be a "core" race, then they would probably have to be reworked, so I don't see why they wouldn't alter the stat arrays while they're at it. I could see them giving Androids a floating bonus because of how Owen and James talked about them at PaizoCon ("It'd be cool to see what sort of configurations the corps came up with once they got their hands on Android creation technology."), or perhaps 2 while also giving them a floating negative, but that certainly smacks of being perhaps a little two powerful from the get-go.