Unfamiliar with familiars.

[Dracoknight]

Well apparently there is this thing that is called "familiars" around that i never actually saw that deeply into as anything but a "worse animal companion" and i have seen claims that this is not the case.

So for me who is unfamiliar with the whole familiar concept what is it that makes these little critters good for anything but a few extra skillpoints and a companion you can talk with to appear less crazy than most people?

So yeah, what i would like to know is the gameplay and tactics around them, how to keep them alive and not have them suck in any situation that is combat?

[Arcaian]

Had a longer post, it got eaten.

1. Go for an Improved Familiar, pick something with good CHA and use UMD to save yourself actions by using wands/scrolls/etc on the familiar.

2. Lots of new options from Familiar Folio. Mauler familiars are smarter than ACs, and have good strength for a familiar. If you go for Eldritch Guardian Fighter, you can share your feats with it too.

3. Sage Familiars will (at higher levels) be a knowledge-buff, so you can use them for that.

Basically look through the Familiar Archetypes and see if there is one that interests you.

[dien]

Even without the things Arcaian listed, familiars have their uses:

1) A living reach rod for spell delivery:

I have a witch with a hawk familiar, and my hawk can deliver touch-range hexes as well as spells.... hawk flies at fifty feet, and, due to its small size, buffs to a not-awful AC. So my witch can stands safely back with the hawk on her shoulder, cast a healing hex, have it fly fifty feet forward to touch the frontliner and deliver the spell (a free action), then fly back out of combat, all without exposing me to danger. I buff that hawk with mage armor and false life usually, so even if I'm forced to provoke an AOO when I do the heal, the hawk's 20-something AC gives it decent odds of avoiding the hit, and the false life is usually able to cushion the blow.

2) A scout:

Same character-- the big thing a familiar has that an animal companion doesn't is a brain. At my witch's current level (10), my hawk has an INT of 10, a Perception of +18, and a Stealth of +15. (If I'd known what I was doing when I'd built the character originally, I could probably have built those values higher.) I throw an invisibility on my hawk, perhaps feed it an elixir of vision, so now it's a flying scout with a +35 stealth, a +28 Perception, and enough of a brain to make knowledge checks, which it does using my skill ranks, to identify what it sees. Did I mention it flies 50 ft a round? Intelligent aerial recon at a relatively cheap investment of resources.

3) A variation on the first point of spell delivery:

There's a spell called Eldritch Conduit. I freely admit this is not always worth the two-spell set-up, but I do find it fun and have used the tactic several times: I put up Eldritch Conduit on my hawk, have it fly into position in the battlefield, and then cast lightning bolt or some other area spell using the hawk as the point of origin, while I'm safely a good distance away and not on the front lines! Tada.

4) Intelligence-gathering:

Once familiars learn how to speak with their own kind, and assuming you picked a kind with a brain, they can be a great recon method. If you have a bird familiar and you're in a nature-heavy campaign? Your bird can talk to other birds, and then relay information to you. Ever had a forest-wide spy network of ravens, sparrows, robins, and owls? It's pretty sweet.

These are just a few of the options I've found with my familiar.

[Finlanderboy]

My friends fairy dragon is a beast.

Since it has sorcerer levels it can use a staff and use the staffs casters level to blast things with magic missile.

Also it has improved invisibility he used it to deliver calcify touch. So a flat footed and touch touch attack doing dex damage.

[pjackson]

There are familiars that gives +4 to initiative.

When you are able to talk to them (1st level if a raven) they can be good scouts. They are inteeligent and their size is an advantage when sneaking. If the master has the appropiate knowledge skill they might recognize monsters.

You can cast polymorph spells on them if you want an extra combatant, e.g. transforming your little kitty into a leopard or lion.

Generally in combat they will hide behind their master or move away.

Monkeys and some improved familiars can manipulate objects and use UMD if the master has the skill, so might be equipped with a wand.

[Scott Wilhelm]

In the D&D tradition I was brought up in, Animal Companions, Mounts, mounts, and Henchmen were things that the GM killed because he would prefer not to kill you. And so I always see Animal Companions as something that gets killed. Familiars are small enough that the GM sometimes forgets they're even there. Meanwhile, they give you a bonus.

And, as Arcian and dian poinited out, they give pretty awesome bonuses these days.

I was thinking what would be really cool would be to have a Protector Familiar and take 2 levels in Eldritch Guardian, a level in Cavalier, and some levels in Alchemist.

Protector Familiars automatically have the Bodyguard and Combat Reflexes feats. Whenever you are attacked, they get an Attack of Opportunity to Aid Another to give you +2 AC.

The Familiars of Eldritch Guardians know all the Combat Feats their masters know, including

Paired Opportunist, which a level 1 Cavalier can take as a Bonus Teamwork Feat. When you and your allies have Paired Opportunist, whenever you get an Attack of Opportunity, all of you do, and at +4. That means you get AoOs every time someone attacks you! Cavaliers have the Tactician Class Ability. With that you can make it so EVERYBODY gets an Attack of Opportunity whenever anybody attacks you.

Protector Familiars put Shield Other on you when you are level 5. Take 2 levels in Alchemist, and you can make your Familiar a Tumor Familiar, which enjoys Fast Healing 5. With Shield Other, whenever you take damage, you only take half of it: the Familiar takes the other half (mitigated by Fast Healing 5).

So basically, you have just doubled your hit points, and you get 5 attacks/round with your Greatsword by level 6.

[Scott Wilhelm]

The Beast Bonded Witch Archetype lets you share feats with your Familiar. And it lets you Polymorph into a creature like your Familiar. So if you like the idea of Wildshaping into a Vermin, a great way to do that is to have a Centipede or Crab Familiar.

[Dracoknight]

Right! So to check if i have gotten the idea down at least in general:

Familiar is basically just a versatile and smart "tool" that also happens to come along with buffs?

As for the combat purposes the point of a familiar is 3 things:
Hide - Hit'n Run - Position ( Or in the event of a mauler even attack )

So yeah, i think most of my bias against familiars and companions is the stigma that these kind of critters/companions have a bad tendency to pull "GM/DM aggro" and be killed rather fast due to being easier to kill and less "dramatic" to get rid of than a character.

I guess most of the survival aspect of your familiar is also if you are willing to sacrifice some of your own wealth to supply them with defensive items?

[Apraham Lincoln]

Dont forget you can cast your polymorph spells on it allowing you to use that awesome form of the dragon spell and still be slinging spells

[Dracoknight]

Wait a minute, when it comes to the battleform of the mauler.
Does it get +8 strenght if its a tiny creature becomming medium according to the monster size table?

Forexample the Compsognathus would go from base 8 to 16 in its battleform, then +2 from its battleform and then +1 from its level advancement? ( That would be a total of 19 strenght at lvl 3 )

Might be a dumb question, but the wording of the battleform refers to other bonuses due to its size increase.

[Wonderstell]

@Dracoknight

Yes.

[Olaf the Holy]

Also, you can cast spells with range: personal or 'centered on you' from your familiar.

So you could cast antimagic field on your familiar, and have it ready actions to fly up to the enemy casters whenever they cast spells.

[ryric]

One trick I do to remember that my character has a familiar and that it has actions is to buy a cheap stuffed animal version and sit it on the table where everyone can see it.

I'm currently playing a witch in a Skull&Shackles game, and I make a lot of use of my familiar. I have a tidepool dragon from Improved Familiar, so it has actual sorcerer casting and can use wands without needing UMD. I also use it to deliver touch buffs to the party. Using it to deliver touch attack spells is very risky because it can get your familiar killed by the AoO.

Just last session it killed a major foe who happened to have been dropped to 1 hp right before its turn.

I once saved the party sorcerer who was surrounded by foes by having the familiar deliver a dimension door. I have maxed Acrobatics so my familiar does as well, and can often avoid provoking AoOs from moving.

[Torbyne]

Tacking on to what others have said.

The most common role i see familiars in is as a scout, most especially flying familiars. The feat Telepathic Link makes this an amazingly strong feature.

[Letric]

IMO Improved Familiar should be a big nono. Usually classes that get access to one are already loaded, and getting yet another way to screw action economy and gain more power is disgusting!
I'm playing a bookworm wizard (aren't we all), and I'm getting the Sage Archetype. Suddenly I've already gotten 2 rolls on each knowledge check. All I've lost is the Natural Armor and it's actually cut in half.
My familiar has 2 Skill points each level, increase its own intelligence (5+level), will gain more skill points.
Yeah, I can't share skill ranks, but who allows a raven without the sage archetype to roll on knowledge checks like they're humanoids?

If you're going with Improved Familiar, then take Figment archetype. 1/4 normal familiar HP, but:

-can't die, it will just respawn after a long rest
-it gets at least 1 evolution point, magically you get +8 UMD for free almost
-if it can't die, you can send it on risky mission, and you don't lose any gold getting a new one

[Torbyne]

My favorite improved familiar is still a Sage Cassissian Angel. All the benefits of a flying scout but add in perma-tongues and perfect memory of everything ever seen or heard. plus just being near you is a nice +2 to AC.

[Dracoknight]

Wonderstell wrote:

@Dracoknight

Yes.

Time to make my battle hamster a reality.

[David knott 242]

One of my favorite options is to take an ordinary familiar with the Figment and Sage archetypes -- this works for any class except the Witch, which cannot take the Figment archetype.

Sage gives the familiar its own skills, allowing it to specialize in skills you might not want to bother taking.

Figment cuts the familiar's hit points in half but allows it to come back the next day if it gets killed.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Quote:

Does it get +8 strength if its a tiny creature becoming medium according to the monster size table?

For example the Compsognathus would go from base 8 to 16 in its battleform, then +2 from its battleform and then +1 from its level advancement? ( That would be a total of 19 strenght at lvl 3 )

@Dracoknight and @Wonderstell : No. Mark clarified that it uses the polymorph table, so it's +4 Str.

So at 3rd level a Str 8 Compy is:
+1 Str from "Increased Strength"
+4 Str (and -2 Dex) from Tiny->Small Polymorph (and +0 from Small->Med)
+2 Str from Battle Form
for a total of Str 15 (16 at 5th level.)

It's still a solid Str score though. Flying Fox is another great choice, with flight and 1 more Str. The Familiar buff is +2 Fort instead of +4 Init, but that's not a horrible trade.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

I'm very amused at the idea of a 5 Int Tiefling Bloodrager with a Figment Sage.

"I'm dumb, maybe my imaginary friend knows?"

[Wonderstell]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Quote:

Does it get +8 strength if its a tiny creature becoming medium according to the monster size table?

For example the Compsognathus would go from base 8 to 16 in its battleform, then +2 from its battleform and then +1 from its level advancement? ( That would be a total of 19 strenght at lvl 3 )

@Dracoknight and @Wonderstell : No. Mark clarified that it uses the polymorph table, so it's +4 Str.

So at 3rd level a Str 8 Compy is:
+1 Str from "Increased Strength"
+4 Str (and -2 Dex) from Tiny->Small Polymorph (and +0 from Small->Med)
+2 Str from Battle Form
for a total of Str 15 (16 at 5th level.)

It's still a solid Str score though. Flying Fox is another great choice, with flight and 1 more Str. The Familiar buff is +2 Fort instead of +4 Init, but that's not a horrible trade.

Yeah, you are correct. Apparently you should never use the monster size table (for anything else than creating a monster). It's a bit of a bummer, but it's understandable since the scaling Str increase would raise your familiar's Str score far too high.

...Flying Fox?

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Flying Fox, from Bestiary 5
My halfling bard flies around on one.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Most of my Pathfinder characters have had familiars. The Mauler archetype opens up a lot of options, as does Improved Familiar.

Keeping them alive hasn't been an issue, I've only had one die, due to a series of Order's Wrath spells, because it's a Will save so Imp Evasion didn't kick in. The level 1 version of Shield Companion helps a lot here if they're going to be in melee. But they'll often have FH, so having them take the odd hit here or there isn't too bad. Half your HP is still a good chunk, and 200 gp/level still isn't bad.

It sounds weird, but if you're not using your familiar for something else in combat, having it run past to draw an AoO and then just hide the rest of the fight can be worth it.

I've done:
(Home Game) Cleric w/ Eagle Domain, Improved Familiar for a Protean. Fast Healing 2 + Imbue with Spell Ability for Shield Other and Watchful Eye, and a held Buff spell have made this guy a lot of fun. We have a Channel happy cleric, so spreading damage to another target is huge in combat.

PFS Life Shaman Protector (Compsognathus, but I wish I'd done Thrush.) Life Shaman familiar gets FH 1. Life Link+Protector means you can funnel 60% of your party's damage to the familiar (out of combat), and spamming Virtue can eliminate another 20%. With Imbue Hex, the familiar Life Link's me back, and that basically closes the loop to heal everyone in the party to full out of combat.

PFS Bloodrager 1/Skald X using a Celestial Bloodline Familiar. This one started as a Goat Valet for a 12 Str flanker, another target for raging song, and a partner for Amplified Rage shenanigans. I eventually gave up on Amp Rage, and took Improved Familiar for an Earth Elemental. EEs are pretty brutal: High Str, Immune to flanks and crits, +1/+1 against creatures on the earth, earth glide. With hefty Skald buffs and Rage Powers, they're awesome flankers and beatsticks. I just switched him to a Fire Mephit for story reasons. Fire Mephit's fly, can use martial weapons, and still make a great conduit for channeling Skald buffs and Rage Powers into the world. :)

PFS Halfling Duettist Bard on a Mauler Flying Fox. Mauler is Medium, Halfling is small: flying mount at 3rd level is awesome. I took Evolved Familiar (Reach[Bite]) and use a lance (now a Longspear+Banner of Ancient Kings) so we both have reach and can just hover safely and taking AoOs over a big area. Again, the familiar gets all the Bard buffs, so it's not too shabby. Battle Song of the People's Revolt for Improved Spell Sharing lets you double up on your self buffs (Mirror Image!) with your familiar.

I still kind of want to do a Wayang version of this with a Kami Medium. Their familiar is origami, and I'm really amused at the idea of an inky shadow flying around on a big paper airplane. Unfortunately you have to stop at Medium 4 before your familiar loses Mauler, and Kami Medium is a potential hassle for channeling the Champion spirit.

[Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

I'm very amused at the idea of a 5 Int Tiefling Bloodrager with a Figment Sage.

"I'm dumb, maybe my imaginary friend knows?"

I had an Abyssal-Blooded Tiefling Sorcerer in a Wrath of the Righteous PbP that I seriously wish Familiar Folio had come out before we started because just about any familiar with both Figment & Sage would have been both hilarious & amazingly helpful for. We had almost nobody with points in Knowledge skills. It was sad really. If the campaign would have lasted her familiar probably would have wound up being the smartest member of the party...

[lemeres]

Besides the usual uses, I also tend to like familiars with senses. You are hardly going wrong if you choose a bat to just be a cute fuzzyball with blind sense to spot invisible creatures, for example.

[Scott Wilhelm]

lemeres wrote:

Besides the usual uses, I also tend to like familiars with senses. You are hardly going wrong if you choose a bat to just be a cute fuzzyball with blind sense to spot invisible creatures, for example.

I haven't found a really good way to exploit a familiar's blindense. Most Familiar-havers are arcane spellcasters, and usually can cast Alter Self as a Level 2 Spell or Extract, gaining Scent for themselves by Polymorphing into a Bugbear or something.

How do you like to use Familiars' senses?

[lemeres]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

lemeres wrote:

Besides the usual uses, I also tend to like familiars with senses. You are hardly going wrong if you choose a bat to just be a cute fuzzyball with blind sense to spot invisible creatures, for example.

I haven't found a really good way to exploit a familiar's blindense. Most Familiar-havers are arcane spellcasters, and usually can cast Alter Self as a Level 2 Spell or Extract, gaining Scent for themselves by Polymorphing into a Bugbear or something.

How do you like to use Familiars' senses?

Depends on the caster and familiar.

Bloodragers, for example, have an option to get a familiar instead of their first bloodline power (which often end up lack luster anyway, so why not?), and many users don't go around with polymorph effects (if only for the fact that they only have 4 spell levels, and might not have the room for the spell; or at least not for sense based forms,, rather than battle forms).

Plus, blind sense is basically the upgraded version of scent, allowing more automatic detection. Less time spent looking for the invisible creature

[Scott Wilhelm]

So Manly-man teapot and I have been discussing the Tripping Strike Feat here, and it gave me an idea for another use for the Eldritch Guardian Familiar.

It occurs to me that another Teamwork-and-Combat Feat an Eldritch Guardian Familiar can share with you is Harder they Fall, which bypasses the Size restrictions on Bull Rush and Trip combat maneuvers, namely that you can't even try to Trip someone more than 1 size bigger than you. Since Tripping Strike uses the Crit Confirmation roll instead of a separate Combat Maneuver Check, it would be augmented by Crit Confirmation Feats, Traits, and Spells, such as Crit Focus, Low Blow, and Improve Low Blow and Unerring Weapon. Low Blow is a Halfling Trait, so this opens the possibility of a Halfling Tripping build!

Manly-man teapot's interpretation of Tripping Strike implies that Tripping this way does an endrun around the size requirement and Halfling Tripping in this way do not even suffer the -2 for being Size Small. But I must say that I consider this interpretation to be controversial, and you should check with your GM before attempting a Halfling Trip Build without considering the Size of your character.

To use Harder they Fall, the Familiar has to use Aid Another to help you hit, so you can't use the same Aid Another that you would use with Bodyguard to give yourself Attacks of Opportunity, which Aid Another must be used to improve your AC. Also, since your Familiar needs to be Threatening the the opponent to be using Aid Another in this way, you probably should get the Mauler Familiar and not a Protector Familiar. Since Maulers are size Medium, I guess this opens the possibility for a Halfling to use it as a mount.

If you still want to use the combination of Bodyguard and Paired Opportunist to get an Attack of Opportunity whenever you are attacked, Eldritch Guardians still give those Feats to their Familiars, but now you have to take those Feats yourself. But this way, either of you would get an Attack of Opportunity whenever either of you is attacked. I would also recommend taking Broken Wing Gambit, and you will really be racking up the bonus attacks.

The Protector Familiar's Shield Other ability can be duplicated via a Shield Other Potion. I was recommending levels in Alchemist and the Tumor Familiar Discovery, anyway. There is a Level 2 Alchemist Extract called Alchemal Allocation which allows you to use a Potion without consuming it. Use the Shared Spell Familiar Ability to have your Familiar be the one who casts the Extract, and have it use the Potion of Shield Other on you. You might not want to do this so often any more if you are using a Mauler Familiar as a combatant ally, but you still have the option.

[Akkurscid]

Don't forget familiars can be equipped with magic Items. Magic Item Slots for Animals

Hawk(6str) + heavyload belt can fly with a "Light load" of 60 pounds or less.
add an All tools vest... Can come in handy and be fun.

Any scouting familiar could benefit from Eyes of the Eagle. If you use them with the same hawk he now has +19 perception.

[Dracoknight]

Well i am considering just going for the eldricth guardian with a Compsognathus and just go Reactionary + Imp Initative :P

Still it does open a lot of options with the familiar archtypes, but so far my favorite is the mauler just because of they actually called it "battle form". So in essence, you gained a pokèmon.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Potion of Shield Other doesn't work, the drinker is both caster and target of the spell. It would be nice though.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Potion of Shield Other doesn't work, the drinker is both caster and target of the spell. It would be nice though.

Yeah.

Oil of Shield Other would work: The applier is the Caster, and the annointed is the target. But Alchemal Allocation doesn't work on Oils. It's still a nice option if you are going with Mauler rather than Protector familiar.

[Liz Courts]

Removed some back and forth responses. Please be civil with each other, and agree to disagree—one person's "cheezy" build is another person's perfect build for their game.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Dracoknight wrote:

Well i am considering just going for the eldricth guardian with a Compsognathus and just go Reactionary + Imp Initative :P

Still it does open a lot of options with the familiar archtypes, but so far my favorite is the mauler just because of they actually called it "battle form". So in essence, you gained a pokèmon.

I'm not telling you not to do it, but if you are going for Initiative, you should ask yourself why.

It seems to me that the coolest thing about having Initiative is that when your opponent is Flatfooted, they don't get their Dex to AC. And it seems to me the best way to exploit that is with Sneak Attacks and with Ranged Weapons, say Vivisectionist Alchemist. If you take Tumor Familiar, your levels in Alchemist stack with your levels in Eldritch Gaurdian for the purposes of the level of your Familiar.

Lots of times when you win Initiative, you still don't have the speed to close to melee, and you don't get your Full Attack. But with a longbow, you do!