RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well if we get ratfolk and lose kitsune... I'm making Pocket Possum
Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!
I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
Have you looked at the Agile Tongue feat (gives you a melee touch attack range of 10')?
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One of the *big* selling points of the PFS campaign has been the availability of tengu, which I'm not ashamed to admit has been my 'elf'...
...and though I am only one player in a campaign that has hundreds of thousands of players, it'd be kind of detrimental to me to have the race removed.
Tengu is part of what gives PFS it's unique flavor, it's not overpowered, and when I sit down at a table with one, typically there might be *at most* one other person with one.
I can't 'get behind' the idea of wayang (though I know some people who can do it very well), kitsune are a bit difficult to implement for me, but the one that's been driving me buggy is nagajii -- They look like they'd be interesting, but it's hard to get into that mindset and every time I sit down to create one I end up ditching the race.
Truth in text: I have sixteen characters atm.
8 tengu (four in a hypothetical 'danger zone', played once)
3 humans
1 halfling (CORE)
1 half-elf
1 half-orc
1 kitsune (in a hypothetical 'danger zone', played once)
1 suli (Voltron, master of the Boon-i-verse!)
While race swap-outs have been abused in the past, I would humbly request that even having 1 exp on a character be enough, but that the race would be 'locked in' at the potential re-build pre-L2?
I just don't see being able to play scenarios before GenCon AND keep my other characters on progression. Is it possible?
Sure, especially with the prevalence of new evergreens, but it would stop being fun at that point and become a chore.
If it should be required to retire tengu, please give a *very compelling story and season arc behind it*. Aasimar and tiefling got 'Well, we closed the Worldwound, so we don't have as many now'. And now they're kind of creeping back with GM boons.
Whether it be a plague, they're specifically targeted by a faction, Kreighton got severely drunk and went back in time with the Sky Key and erased all non-PC versions of the race, the Aspis targeted them for Reasons, a charismatic leader has 'called them all home' to Kwanlai to TRULY build a tengu nation, etc.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Have you looked at the Agile Tongue feat (gives you a melee touch attack range of 10')?I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
That's exactly why I'd like to make a grippli cleric. I just can't think of an interesting domain combo (that would also be available on a legal and interesting deity - Blood and Defense would have been interesting, but isn't possible).
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That's exactly why I'd like to make a grippli cleric. I just can't think of an interesting domain combo (that would also be available on a legal and interesting deity - Blood and Defense would have been interesting, but isn't possible).Have you looked at the Agile Tongue feat (gives you a melee touch attack range of 10')?I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
Tsukiyo has Madness and Repose, two of the best touch domain powers in the game, on a LG legal deity.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Tsukiyo has Madness and Repose, two of the best touch domain powers in the game, on a LG legal deity.That's exactly why I'd like to make a grippli cleric. I just can't think of an interesting domain combo (that would also be available on a legal and interesting deity - Blood and Defense would have been interesting, but isn't possible).Have you looked at the Agile Tongue feat (gives you a melee touch attack range of 10')?I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
True, but feels like a bit of a reach for a Mwangi grippli. :P
That's exactly why I'd like to make a grippli cleric. I just can't think of an interesting domain combo (that would also be available on a legal and interesting deity - Blood and Defense would have been interesting, but isn't possible).
For my grippli, I took a level of ranger trapper, and 5 levels of cleric (still at 6th level), with a giant gecko animal companion (boon companion feat taken).
I mostly use the tongue to deliver touch spells, including Cure spells and Bestow Curse. Often from the ceiling or walls.
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So, when (or if, because this is all currently speculation) they change up the races I hope they don't announce the change until it is in effect, but make previously played or GM credited PC's with one XP grandfathered in. This way, we avoid the confirmation conga lines of the Aasimar/Tiefling affair while still letting people keep their current characters.
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UndeadMitch, I understand where you are coming from, but it would be nice to treat people like adults and give them warning. Some people, like myself, plan a character for months before they debut at a table. It would be a real kick in the teeth to not have the opportunity to start a character that I had spend significant free time constructing in my head just because we felt there had to be a dramatic switch. None of the races we are hypnotizing to be removed are over-powered or disruptive, nor do they seem to be becoming unusually large populations within the Society.
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I disagree. Management has shown us trust in the past by letting us know about the season six race rotation ahead of time and being generous in requirements in grandfathering, and enough people in the PFS community acted like dorks and did exactly what they were asked not to do. So I don't think we should get both a big heads-up [/b]and[/b] generous grandfathering rules, just one or the other. So, I guess I'll slightly revise my previous statement, I hope that if races get rotated for season eight, we see one of these two options:
1) No prior announcement and a generous grandfather clause. On the first day of season eight we are disallowed from making any PC's of X races, but any existing PC's with player or GM credit are grandfathered in.
or
2) Leadership makes an announcement at say, Paizocon, that races will be rotated at the beginning of Season Eight. Any PC's that have been played at four or more XP (and are thus locked in) are grandfathered in.
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I am genuinely curious how much damage was done the last time around. I haven't been witness to any problems that resulted from the previous phase-out, but I expect that would be very region-specific.
But even if there are lingering effects of Aasimar abuse, I have trouble believing that any of the current races would cause such a problem.
Maybe the choice will be to just add some without removing any. Golarion is a very diverse world, and becoming more so all the time.
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"It's not as powerful as X" is not a good reason to ignore what has happened in the past. There have been multiple accounts from people of many different regions about the abuse from the previous race rotation. Just because you might not think it will happen again just doesn't seem like a compelling reason to neglect taking precautions.
Additionally, I very much disagree with the idea of adding races without removing races. If leadership just adds races, then that reduces their ability to provide incentives for GM's at conventions and events that fall under the new Game Day program.
Sad to say it, but if they get rid of kitsune I'm going to stop playing society. They are the only race in the game that interests me. Hopefully they will keep them for another season or two.
Also everyone is going on about four XP to grandfather in. I'm ninety percent sure you only needed one or two last time they retired a race.
For those of us not in the PFS loop, what happened last time with the races. I'm somewhat aware of what happened with Unchained, but any further enlightenment there would help as well.
Just curious. :-)
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Tsukiyo has Madness and Repose, two of the best touch domain powers in the game, on a LG legal deity.That's exactly why I'd like to make a grippli cleric. I just can't think of an interesting domain combo (that would also be available on a legal and interesting deity - Blood and Defense would have been interesting, but isn't possible).Have you looked at the Agile Tongue feat (gives you a melee touch attack range of 10')?I've been wanting to make a grippli spiritualist, because making Baron Samedi in grippli form is too good to be true. Touch attack spell list + tongue-in-cheek = profit!I went magus with my grippli because I couldn't figure out a fun way to play cleric and use touch domain powers. Could still rebuild it, but I don't have any particular inspiration...
Hail Tsukiyo! As a demonblooded Tiefling, I follow him and venerate his dominion over the Darkness. (darkness with moon subdomain, good with archon subdomain)
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For those of us not in the PFS loop, what happened last time with the races. I'm somewhat aware of what happened with Unchained, but any further enlightenment there would help as well.
Just curious. :-)
Basically, Leadership told players about a month or so that at the beginning of Season Six they would be removing Aasimar and Tieflings from the list of allowed races and adding three races in. They told people that any Aasimar or Tieflings with one xp would be grandfathered in and allowed to continue on as whatever race they were. In the same post they announced the change the also said that while people could technically just grind out a bunch of replayable scenarios and save up a whole bunch of extra Aasimar/Tieflings, that they wanted people to be mature about it. That this was to give people a chance to get a character or two grandfathered in, not so they could have a stable of Aasimar to last them for the forseeable future. Then, a bunch of people just went ahead and did exactly what Mike and John had asked them not to.
Thanks! So then they didn't give hardly any notice for the switch to Unchained Summoner.
If I recall correctly.
Seems like there could be a middle ground there. :-)
When does the new season start, I have a Nagaji Medium I thought up recently I'd like to try out this summer. :-)
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Thanks! So then they didn't give hardly any notice for the switch to Unchained Summoner.
If I recall correctly.
Seems like there could be a middle ground there. :-)
When does the new season start, I have a Nagaji Medium I thought up recently I'd like to try out this summer. :-)
The new season normally starts on the first day of GenCon, so the new season will probably start on August 4th.
Excellent! So there's still time. :-)
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For those of us not in the PFS loop, what happened last time with the races. I'm somewhat aware of what happened with Unchained, but any further enlightenment there would help as well.
Just curious. :-)
Does this mean you can create several new characters, play a scenario with each, and have several native outsiders waiting for when you need them? Well, we debated long and hard whether to require 4 XP per character, as at that point one is past the free rebuilding stage. However, we also recognized this as unnecessarily punitive to casual players who may only be able to play once or twice in the next month. To answer your question, yes, you can make 10 aasimars and play The Confirmation an equal number of times, but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind.
After that post, anecdotal accounts of some players fast-playing Master of the Fallen Fortress in order to "lock" aasimar & tiefling characters arose. Those who took advantage of the opportunity to lock aasimars & tieflings were accused of "abuse" (despite the blog post) causing a lot of friction and loss of faith in the campaign, especially the volunteers.
When the APG summoners were banned, it was arguably even worse as those of us who had been GM'ing were punished for GM'ing rather than playing as any of our characters which possibly COULD be respec'd were forced to respect (ie any characters which had not yet been played as a 2nd level or higher character with APG Summoner levels were not able to retain their summoner class and forced to change to something else).
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"Those who took advantage of the opportunity to lock aasimars & tieflings were accused of "abuse" (despite the blog post)... "
You're apparently missing the most important part of the post:
"...but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind."
The decision made was that it wasn't a good idea to have too many more aasmiars and teiflings in the campaign. I can only guess the reasons, but one factor is likely how much more powerful they are compared to other races (even moreso with the versatility of the various "Blood of..." heritages).
We were given the opportunity to benefit from still having the chance to make a planetouched PC or two without requiring hard and fast rules from the Campaign staff. The blog encouraged us to use good taste and respect the decision made for the larger community. Lots of players chose to not do that, in favor of gaining as many things for themselves as they could, and so here we are.
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Sad to say it, but if they get rid of kitsune I'm going to stop playing society. They are the only race in the game that interests me. Hopefully they will keep them for another season or two.
Also everyone is going on about four XP to grandfather in. I'm ninety percent sure you only needed one or two last time they retired a race.
You are correct, but they didn't like how that worked out last time. This time though none of the races are quite as crunchy and wouldn't lead to nearly the same gold rush to get more of them locked in.
I just need to get my Protegee locked in, and maybe a warlock.
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Thanks! So then they didn't give hardly any notice for the switch to Unchained Summoner.
If I recall correctly.
Seems like there could be a middle ground there. :-)
When does the new season start, I have a Nagaji Medium I thought up recently I'd like to try out this summer. :-)
One of the reasons why very little notice was given with the Summoner was the fact that the old Summoner was viewed as more powerful than Unchained version. Longer notice wasn't given as they didn't want people to rush out to lock original versions of the Summoner.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Ironically, I have 4 GM blobs of Aasimar/Tiefling credit (2 of each) from the 'purge' I've only played one, once, since then. Just nothing seems to 'fit'.
Heck it's been how many years of Kitsune, and I finally think of a concept for one?
I just want to play him :-)
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Ironically, I have 4 GM blobs of Aasimar/Tiefling credit (2 of each) from the 'purge' I've only played one, once, since then. Just nothing seems to 'fit'.
Heck it's been how many years of Kitsune, and I finally think of a concept for one?
I just want to play him :-)
I have a meatlocker of frozen aasimars/tieflings. Break only in event of war!
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Ironically, I have 4 GM blobs of Aasimar/Tiefling credit (2 of each) from the 'purge' I've only played one, once, since then. Just nothing seems to 'fit'.
Heck it's been how many years of Kitsune, and I finally think of a concept for one?
I just want to play him :-)
I'd bought books just to play a tiefling a week before that announcement, so I felt justified in putting a few blobs in the freezer. Now I've still got one blob but I'm paralyzed by indecision about how to use this remaining opportunity.
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"Those who took advantage of the opportunity to lock aasimars & tieflings were accused of "abuse" (despite the blog post)... "You're apparently missing the most important part of the post:
"...but we're trusting you'll exercise some good taste and respect a decision made with the larger community in mind."
I didn't miss it at all, neither when it was posted or now.
I had a very much longer response trying to demonstrate how much damage these decisions and the negativity that arise from them has done to this community, but really, I'm just tired of it. Every time this topic comes up, it erodes my faith in the PFS community and especially the volunteers a bit more, especially with the "haves" and "have-nots" dividing line that now exists in the Standard Campaign due to various banning-and-grandfathering initiatives.
I feel for the new PFS players that get to play in games with APG summoners and early-entry prestige classes and are effectively told "you should have started sooner, N00b" when they ask how they can have the same opportunities as the other players.
Venture-Agent, Australia—NSW—Bondi Junction
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But more on topic - Personally I think that it may have made more sense (and may still make more sense) to allow only ONE of each type of now invalid races to be attached to a PFS Id. This would allow those who were 'late to the party' to be able to build a single tiefling and aasimar character for play without flooding the table. Eventually they will level themselves out of play. For the record I have 2 'vanilla' Tielflings (even though I had Blood of Fiends) and no Aasimar (because at the time I couldn't think of an Aasimar concept I liked).
Oh and without a shadow of a doubt the Unchained Summoner was horribly broken - due mainly to the spell list NOT Eidelon - and should never be allowed again in PFS, IMO.