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Got a sheet recently that gives access to "black adder venom" with a limit of 2.
Is this a max of 2 on my character at any given time, or a limit on the number of times I can purchase the item ever?
And if it is meant to cap the total times I ever buy the item, does this prevent me from purchasing the item via non-chronicle sheet sources?
In general, I really wish that PFS document was clearer. Seems very much written with the idea that there is a PFS GM on standby to answer questions.
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2 ever.
No you can buy them through normal means in addition, but limits are generally put on items that; are only available to characters with certain class features, are only available in larger lots (example +1 Holy Arrow, limit 1 - normally magic arrows only come in lots of 50), or are otherwise illegal for purchase.
Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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You are only allowed to purchase 2 from that chronicle. To be able to purchase the poison from a non-chronicle source, your character must have the Poison Use class ability.
From the Ultimate Equipment entry on Additional Resources:
Any character with the Poison Use class ability can purchase and use poisons. For now, they are the only classes that have a list of "always available poisons" (those noted below)—no other class may purchase poisons unless they appear on a Chronicle sheet or in another legal source. Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
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Did a long thread on the poison use one before. Well aware that poison use allows access.
2 ever.
No you can buy them through normal means in addition, but limits are generally put on items that; are only available to characters with certain class features, are only available in larger lots (example +1 Holy Arrow, limit 1 - normally magic arrows only come in lots of 50), or are otherwise illegal for purchase.
Got a quote somewhere that says you can purchase them from other sources if you have a chronicle sheet that limits the item?
That's what I'm looking for. As I read it, having poison use would work until you got this chronicle sheet, then you'd lose access to more than 2 doses of black adder venom. That's why I was wondering if the intention is a limit of 2 on your person at a given time.
And on a side note, can you use PP to buy poisons? I'm a bit unclear, as I really can't find much in the way to details on what the PP to gold purchases actually cover. Local players use it to buy wands, despite lacking fame, chronicle sheets, and with wands not being "always available" items as far as I can tell.
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No I don't have a quote. If you never got the sheet would you be able to purchase Black Adder Venom. - If no, then now you can buy two. If yes, then like most things on chronicle sheets this item means nothing to you.
PP bypasses fame requirements. So if you have the ability to use poisons I don't see why you couldn't use PP to do so.
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No I don't have a quote. If you never got the sheet would you be able to purchase Black Adder Venom. - If no, then now you can buy two. If yes, then like most things on chronicle sheets this item means nothing to you.
PP bypasses fame requirements. So if you have the ability to use poisons I don't see why you couldn't use PP to do so.
Is that how you read this one(?):
Awards available to all Pathfinders regardless of faction
(listed in Table 5–4), each faction offers specific Prestige
Awards available only to members, which are listed with
each full faction description presented in the Pathfinder
Society Field Guide. Regardless of a character’s Fame, the
Prestige Point cost for these boons and rewards remains
the same—a member of the Grand Lodge faction with a
Fame score of 40 must spend 1 PP to have a remove curse
or dispel magic spell cast on her behalf, just like a new
initiate with a Fame score of 2.
I see that it says the fame score doesn't affect the PP cost, or the resulting award, but it doesn't say "PP bypasses fame requirements." Maybe that's what it is supposed to mean, but it doesn't say that. All I see is them clarifying that high fame doesn't grant different effects.
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The only exceptions are items that have a purchase limit. You may never purchase more of that item throughout the life of your character than the number amount listed as the purchase limit.
Chronicles grant additional access to items beyond what is always available, available through fame limits, or otherwise allowed in additional resources. Chronicles do not remove the access that you already have. If you have Poison Use and the poison is available to you normally, then receiving that chronicle does not mean you are now limited to only 2 of that item ever.
What it does mean is that characters without Poison Use who would not normally be able to purchase that poison can purchase 2 uses of it.
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Poison really does not work in PFS.
Totally agree. The main reason I think they limit them (and firearms), is that they are good ways for low level PCs to accidentally kill themselves.
You poison yourself on 1s when you apply the poison and poison yourself on 1s when rolling to attack with poisoned weapons. Not unlike the firearm misfire chance.
Personally, I think the limit on poison access should be for PCs with poison use, and for PCs with immunity to poison (or to the specific poison they want to buy).
On a side note, if I do have poison use, can I apply it to my ally's weapons? Probably no, for the above reason, but I figured I'd ask.
Items gained thru Prestige indeed do bypass Fame requirements, otherwise you could not acquire a wand of cure light wounds when your Fame is only 2.
This was also just confirmed elsewhere, recently, too.
Been told this a few times, but I can't seem to find the actual rules to support it.
I do think that PFS guide could really stand for a re-write. Lots of redundancies and references to contents no longer supported. I wonder if I wrote one, if they'd be opposed to using it...(?)
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Have you never seen a level 1 character with a wand of cure light wounds?
Seen it locally, yes. Still can't figure out the written rules on how he got it. I've been told it works the way you, and others, have mentioned. Again, I still can't find the rules for this. Given PFS is rules heavy, it would be nice to have some print to justify my rules understanding.
Saw a player the other day that had mistakenly understood the chronicle sheet to give him all the gear listed, so he was selling it, and ending up with lots of extra cash. He certainly had bought a wand of cure light wounds...
Although we caught it and it was corrected, I don't entirely blame him, as that entire section is a long wall of text that is downright difficult to read - even as someone that can sit and enjoy reading the dictionary or book of state laws.
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Have you never seen a level 1 character with a wand of cure light wounds?Seen it locally, yes. Still can't figure out the written rules on how he got it. I've been told it works the way you, and others, have mentioned. Again, I still can't find the rules for this. Given PFS is rules heavy, it would be nice to have some print to justify my rules understanding.
Saw a player the other day that had mistakenly understood the chronicle sheet to give him all the gear listed, so he was selling it, and ending up with lots of extra cash. Although we caught it and it was corrected, I don't entirely blame him, as that entire section is a long wall of text that is downright difficult to read - even as someone that can sit and enjoy reading the dictionary or book of state laws.
As others have pointed out, Josh Frost clarified nearly six years ago that spending 2 Prestige Points allows one to acquire an item worth up to 750 gp without having the requisite amount of Fame. To my knowledge, none of the Pathfinder Society organized play leaders over the years have contradicted that ruling—largely because we've felt it was a good one that didn't hurt the game. This might be something for us to address in a revised Guide**, but in the meantime, know that yes, the ruling is still supported by campaign leadership. A PC who spends Prestige Points to acquire an item worth 750 gp or less does ignore the Fame requirement for that item and for that purchase.
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Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.
What about Investigators? They get Poison Use, too (as a matter of fact, what they get is "Poison Use+").
And is it still true that Alchemists who give up Poison Use can no longer use poison? I was once told that such a character could use and even brew their own poisons, but only after it showed up on one of their Chronicles.
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PP bypasses fame requirements. So if you have the ability to use poisons I don't see why you couldn't use PP to do so.
Is that how you read this one(?):
Awards available to all Pathfinders regardless of faction
(listed in Table 5–4), each faction offers specific Prestige
Awards available only to members, which are listed with
each full faction description presented in the Pathfinder
Society Field Guide. Regardless of a character’s Fame, the
Prestige Point cost for these boons and rewards remains
the same—a member of the Grand Lodge faction with a
Fame score of 40 must spend 1 PP to have a remove curse
or dispel magic spell cast on her behalf, just like a new
initiate with a Fame score of 2.
No, in fact I was referring to a long standing tradition passed down from one of the first Campaign Coordinators, which BNW was nice enough to link the confirmation of the rule from John Compton
The section you've quoted is more about Vanities/Boons that are available to factions like a Scarab Sage becoming a member of the Risen Guard, and spell casting services. (Also, that those prices don't change no matter your fame - but that's really neither here nor there)
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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Alchemists, ninja, and poisoner rogues may only purchase the following poisons: black adder venom, bloodroot, giant wasp poison, greenblood oil, large scorpion venom, malyass root paste, Medium spider venom, nitharit, shadow essence, small centipede poison, terinav root.What about Investigators? They get Poison Use, too (as a matter of fact, what they get is "Poison Use+").
And is it still true that Alchemists who give up Poison Use can no longer use poison? I was once told that such a character could use and even brew their own poisons, but only after it showed up on one of their Chronicles.
Right now, only the classes listed are allowed to purchase the poisons listed. There is supposed to be a clarification to include other classes and races (Vishkanya, if you have a boon). I would say that the Investigator would be able to purchase the listed poisons based on being a hybrid class of the Alchemist and Rogue. In addition, if you give up the poison use class ability by taking an archetype, you would only be allowed to purchase a poison if it was on a chronicle.
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Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane
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I wonder if I wrote one, if they'd be opposed to using it...(?)Yes, "they" would be.
"They" referring to the dozens of people currently responsible for editing the Guide (VOs, Campaign Leadership, and other contributors).
Speaking as one who is on the Task Force for revising the current guide, yes I would be opposed.
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I spawned a new thread about revising the language around purchasing poisons.
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Poison really does not work in PFS.It depends on whether or not you can poison someone with the same poison ot different multiple times in a round. I hit you three times. Now make three (Potentially four) fortitude saves.
You can, but it doesn't work as you probably think it does. Say you stab someone four times during a full attack with some sort of re-poisoning weapon (DC 13).
They fail their first save. They're poisoned. The save against the second hit is increased by 2 (DC 15).
They fail their second save. The duration of the poison increases by 50%, and the save against the third hit is increased by 2 (DC 17).
They make their third save. They remain poisoned.
They fail their fourth save. The duration of the poison increases by 50%, and the save against future hits increases by 2 (DC 19).
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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At which point they take their level of con damage (at best) followed by 63 hitpoints of two handed barbarian to the head.
Actually at the level I'll be able to spam poisons like that the barbarian isn't even doing close to that amount of damage and its not like I won't be able to keep up with him either.
EDIT:Its the side effect of having natural attacks and not being able to poison yourself with said attacks.
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Poison really does not work in PFS.It depends on whether or not you can poison someone with the same poison ot different multiple times in a round. I hit you three times. Now make three (Potentially four) fortitude saves.You can, but it doesn't work as you probably think it does. Say you stab someone four times during a full attack with some sort of re-poisoning weapon (DC 13).
They fail their first save. They're poisoned. The save against the second hit is increased by 2 (DC 15).
They fail their second save. The duration of the poison increases by 50%, and the save against the third hit is increased by 2 (DC 17).
They make their third save. They remain poisoned.
They fail their fourth save. The duration of the poison increases by 50%, and the save against future hits increases by 2 (DC 19).
This is incorrect. The example in the book is a player getting bitten by a trio of medium spiders. If the player fails the first save from the first hit, and the other two spiders hit then the save goes up to DC 18 for the next 8 rounds. You don't make a save for each hit and dosage of the poison being injected in to you. However, one save (or two consecutive depending on the poison) will cure the whole thing.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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From a link in the past by Nefreet: An FAQ on Poison
OOo god that is really scary because that means there is a way to actually get poisons to stack. Im guessing they didn't anticipate the fact that its kind of easy to change poison DCs on the fly.
At first level you can't afford poisons like that. They're wickedly expensive.
At level one, two, and three I can't even really reliably hit things to get a poison effect off let alone afford them.
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From a link in the past by Nefreet: An FAQ on PoisonOOo god that is really scary because that means there is a way to actually get poisons to stack. Im guessing they didn't anticipate the fact that its kind of easy to change poison DCs on the fly.
At level one, two, and three I can't even really reliably hit things to get a poison effect off let alone afford them.At first level you can't afford poisons like that. They're wickedly expensive.
What level are you planning to spam poisons? At low levels, the barbarian is going to one-shot most anything. In the higher level, the barbarian is going to full-round most things. In Seeker tiers, the barbarian is going to pounce the things, then finish it off next turn.
My Barbarian at level 9 crits for over 130 points of damage average. I made a construct pancake out of a DR10 Adamantine golem.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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From a link in the past by Nefreet: An FAQ on PoisonOOo god that is really scary because that means there is a way to actually get poisons to stack. Im guessing they didn't anticipate the fact that its kind of easy to change poison DCs on the fly.
At level one, two, and three I can't even really reliably hit things to get a poison effect off let alone afford them.At first level you can't afford poisons like that. They're wickedly expensive.
What level are you planning to spam poisons? At low levels, the barbarian is going to one-shot most anything. In the higher level, the barbarian is going to full-round most things. In Seeker tiers, the barbarian is going to pounce the things, then finish it off next turn.
My Barbarian at level 9 crits for over 130 points of damage average. I made a construct pancake out of a DR10 Adamantine golem.
Good for you. People can and should still build characters.
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Good for you. People can and should still build characters.
Yes they should, but you have to recognize what you're building a character FOR.
I'm sure there is a game with a control happy wizard, a trip fighter, and an anaconda themed druid with an anaconda companion where poisoning things to death over 4-5 rounds would be a devistating strategy.
But that game is pretty unlikely to be PFS and you have to take that into account with your character concept. Combats tend to be bloody, brutal, short, and uncoordinated. Herd of cats is an insult to herds of cats. You're very likely to have at least one character that can lay out a lot damage and is going to do so before your poison can be relevant. If you finally get to the portion of the fight where you can attack and poison someone 4 times, that full attack really should put him within "FINISH HIM" range for either you or a nother party member that round.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Good for you. People can and should still build characters.
Yes they should, but you have to recognize what you're building a character FOR.
I'm sure there is a game with a control happy wizard, a trip fighter, and an anaconda themed druid with an anaconda companion where poisoning things to death over 4-5 rounds would be a devistating strategy.
But that game is pretty unlikely to be PFS and you have to take that into account with your character concept. Combats tend to be bloody, brutal, short, and uncoordinated. Herd of cats is an insult to herds of cats. You're very likely to have at least one character that can lay out a lot damage and is going to do so before your poison can be relevant. If you finally get to the portion of the fight where you can attack and poison someone 4 times, that full attack really should put him within "FINISH HIM" range for either you or a nother party member that round.
Yes, it's an unspoken requirement that a character be competent in PFS. But does that require every character to only use tried-and-true optimized tactics? Is there no place for a character who contributes (say, by using a Dex-damage-dealing poison to lower AC or a Str-damage-dealing poison to lower enemy accuracy) but doesn't dominate?
I dunno. I'm terrible at building characters, I'm not sure why I'm trying to talk about builds at all.
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Is there no place for a character who contributes (say, by using a Dex-damage-dealing poison to lower AC or a Str-damage-dealing poison to lower enemy accuracy) but doesn't dominate?
There's rooms for under optimized builds but poison use is so terrible it struggles to be under optimized and then several aspects of PFS make it even worse. You're burning 300 gold pieces PER HIT , and then you need to hit them, and then they get a fort save, and then if you're lucky they take a -2 to their ac. You could have just fed the barbarian a potion of good hope and given them +2 to hit and damage all night long instead of maybe one fight.
I dunno. I'm terrible at building characters, I'm not sure why I'm trying to talk about builds at all.
Its part of the game. If you're bad at something, try to improve.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
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Its part of the game. If you're bad at something, try to improve.
It's a quandary my roommate has described pretty accurately: if you want to do something in PFS that isn't something someone else is already doing, you're not being efficient... but doing what everyone else is doing is a bit boring. I can look up all the build guides I want, but it feels a bit pointless if it doesn't feel like the character is interesting mechanically after optimization.
I also tend to dislike it when a single character can dominate an entire scenario on their own, whether I'm playing said character or someone else is, so I try to tune my characters to not be singularly dominant. Usually, I end up falling short and becoming ineffective instead. It's a difficult thing to balance.
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It's a quandary my roommate has described pretty accurately: if you want to do something in PFS that isn't something someone else is already doing, you're not being efficient... but doing what everyone else is doing is a bit boring.
Doing something novel is easy. Doing something effective is easy. Doing something novel AND effective? Thats the trick. And its a lot of fun when you can pull it off.
Im sure if something is effective more than one person is going to do something similar.
Some characters that I feel hit the mark
Grr: Fox Form bundle of fluffy death. Combines fox form as a kitsune, the mousers ability to flank from inside a square with a vexubg dodger unchained rogues sneak attacks. Has a LOT of fun, tactical options. Darting around the map, getting into peoples squares, he makes a good tank of all things by giving people a -4 to hit anyone but him, dirty tricking and (soon) UC rogue debuffing. Can also Just claw claw bite sneak attack the living hell out of things. Having party members being able to step on you saves a LOT of headache in the melee heavy PFS.
Flutter: Wild empathy focused druid. Being a druid means that you can screw around and still have a pretty good character left. Getting to throw half the monster manual back at the rest of the scenario gets some interesting results.
Reynard: Kitsune Dervishdancer bard/swashbuckler. I think slashing grace stopped this build from becomming THE cookie cutter swashbuckler. Swashbuckler with expeditious retreat covers a scary amount of ground
Lotus: Kitsune mesmerist. Ignore the "useless familiar" sitting on someones shoulder. It can't possibly be doing anything. Watch its tail go back and forth. Back and forth...*swirly eyes* "we should surrender our weapons now..."
I can look up all the build guides I want, but it feels a bit pointless if it doesn't feel like the character is interesting mechanically after optimization.
If you're copying off of someone elses blueprint (either as a copy or as an inspiration) you don't want a guide, you want an individual character. Look on the advice forums for someone trying to make a character concept work. Or just hear about a weird build idea and try to build it yourself , you may come up with something good.
Accept the possibility of failure. This is easier in PFS and way easier for us because we can stock up on 2nd level characters and just swap them out if they don't work.
I also tend to dislike it when a single character can dominate an entire scenario on their own, whether I'm playing said character or someone else is, so I try to tune my characters to not be singularly dominant. Usually, I end up falling short and becoming ineffective instead. It's a difficult thing to balance.
Its far easier to overbuild and under play than to under build and overplay.
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You can play down infinitely but its really hard for smart to be worth more than a few pluses here and there.
Agreed.
'Building down' results in actual danger (whereas 'playing down' lets you say "This isn't even my final form" and shift into overdrive if things get tough). Danger is exhilarating.
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You can play down infinitely but its really hard for smart to be worth more than a few pluses here and there.
Agreed.
'Building down' results in actual danger (whereas 'playing down' lets you say "This isn't even my final form" and shift into overdrive if things get tough). Danger is exhilarating.
The thing is the danger is at least as much to the characters you're with as to you and thats really not fair.. If you build down so that its a challenge to tackle a regular adventure with a well rounded group and the dice are behaving you're going to wind up getting everyone killed when you get a bad group for the adventure barely playing up against a hard scenario on a night where the dice have decided to kill you. "good play" is oft touted and REALLY overhyped in its ability to solve problems in combat.
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The thing is the danger is at least as much to the characters you're with as to you and thats really not fair.. If you build down so that its a challenge to tackle a regular adventure with a well rounded group and the dice are behaving you're going to wind up getting everyone killed when you get a bad group for the adventure barely playing up against a hard scenario on a night where the dice have decided to kill you. "good play" is oft touted and REALLY overhyped in its ability to solve problems in combat.
Aside: If you can't solve problems in combat, "good play" suggests you should get out of combat. (Admittedly, that has very little to do with your build strength.)
What is 'acceptable risk?' How 'built down' is acceptable?
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Aside: If you can't solve problems in combat, "good play" suggests you should get out of combat. (Admittedly, that has very little to do with your build strength.)
Movement boosters are a thing, and 20 foot speed is the devil for melee...
What is 'acceptable risk?' How 'built down' is acceptable?
Like anything else the borders are fluid and pretty subjective, but throwing all of your abilities into getting 1/16th the effect of a potion at 4 times the cost is dead center of the map.