About "2pp free purchase 750gp item"


Pathfinder Society

Dark Archive

Hello everyone,
my friends and I play PFS in China. My Chinese team leader insists that even if you use 2 pp to free purchase 750gp item like a wand, you still need to follow the restriction of fame.I know there is a lot of threads about this years ago. However, I need to know if there is an official statment or FAQ tells us that we must follow the restriction of fame in this situation, which means a 2 fame character can not use 2 pp to free purchase 750gp item in the recent time. If it is allowed, please send me your evidence to help me convince this studborn guy.
Thanks.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

You do not need to follow the fame restrictions when obtaining an item for 750gp or less by spending 2 prestige points. See this post and the two posts below it for confirmation (Joshua J. Frost was the PFS Campaign Coordinator at the time).

In fact, further down that thread I linked to, Josh Frost clarifies this is exactly the intent of the prestige purchase:

Joshua J. Frost wrote:
I provided that method so that players could gain earlier access to wands of cure light wounds to sustain survivability in the low levels.

Silver Crusade 3/5

Yes, you ignore Fame limitations when spending Prestige in this way.

If you really want to drive the point home, the guide says this in the footnotes:

Quote:

Once per session, you can acquire any single item of

this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate number of Prestige Points. Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp and cannot be sold.

(Bolded for emphasis.)

Since such items are worth 0 gp, they do not violate Fame limitations.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Closest I can find is this description of spending PA on items worth 750 gp by Joshua Frost, back when he was the PFS campaign coordinator.

It should be noted that wands of level 1 spells are on the "always available" list, so any PC with 750 gp can buy one, even if they don't have the fame score necessary to buy magic items worth that much.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco

Fromper wrote:
It should be noted that wands of level 1 spells are on the "always available" list, so any PC with 750 gp can buy one, even if they don't have the fame score necessary to buy magic items worth that much.

Not true. First level potions and scrolls are on the Always Available list, but not wands, which is why the rule allowing a player to spend prestige points on such a purchase is so important.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Dan Simons wrote:
Fromper wrote:
It should be noted that wands of level 1 spells are on the "always available" list, so any PC with 750 gp can buy one, even if they don't have the fame score necessary to buy magic items worth that much.
Not true. First level potions and scrolls are on the Always Available list, but not wands, which is why the rule allowing a player to spend prestige points on such a purchase is so important.

You're right. My mistake.

But this does pretty much cement the answer the OP is looking for. Pretty much everyone on these forums agrees that you can (and almost always should) spend your first 2 prestige points on a wand of Cure Light Wounds, and the moderators here have never objected, in all the hundreds of times it's been discussed. That pretty much says it all.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Fromper wrote:
Dan Simons wrote:
Fromper wrote:
It should be noted that wands of level 1 spells are on the "always available" list, so any PC with 750 gp can buy one, even if they don't have the fame score necessary to buy magic items worth that much.
Not true. First level potions and scrolls are on the Always Available list, but not wands, which is why the rule allowing a player to spend prestige points on such a purchase is so important.

You're right. My mistake.

But this does pretty much cement the answer the OP is looking for. Pretty much everyone on these forums agrees that you can (and almost always should) spend your first 2 prestige points on a wand of Cure Light Wounds, and the moderators here have never objected, in all the hundreds of times it's been discussed. That pretty much says it all.

As mentioned in this thread, this was also what Joshua Frost, at the time the campaign coordinator, posted as the rulez.

It has traveled through several of his successors, and I seriously doubt that the current campaign coordinator, Tonya, is likely to change that specific thing.

Also, note, it is not a requirement, just a strong recommendation, on the Wand of Cure Light Wounds or Wand of Infernal Healing, although some PC builds might lean toward a different wand initially, like a Wand of Magic Missiles, or a Wand of Mage Armor (not taking damage to begin with is always the best way)

Shadow Lodge 5/5

I know that anything gotten for free cannot be sold ...
My question is what if you added an enchantment to a Item you aquired for free

could you sell the Item for 1/2 of the enchantment cost ?
and yes ... the Item is no longer needed as I have replaced it with something else

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

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"Items purchased this way ... cannot be sold"

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
"Items purchased this way ... cannot be sold"

yes Nefreet ... as you see I Already said that

I am speaking of recouping the enchantment cost ... not the base Item cost

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston

Nefreet wrote:
"Items purchased this way ... cannot be sold"

You can't sell the item, ever. Don't put an enchantment on it unless you can accept that the cost of the enchantment will not be even partially refundable in any way.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Wraith235 wrote:

I know that anything gotten for free cannot be sold ...

My question is what if you added an enchantment to a Item you aquired for free

could you sell the Item for 1/2 of the enchantment cost ?
and yes ... the Item is no longer needed as I have replaced it with something else

Did you make it your arcane bond for a while, or upgrade it with gold? In those cases I think you can get back half what you actually spent on it.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

no ... got the Item from the Mendevian weapon training

Grand Lodge 4/5

Starglim wrote:
Wraith235 wrote:

I know that anything gotten for free cannot be sold ...

My question is what if you added an enchantment to a Item you aquired for free

could you sell the Item for 1/2 of the enchantment cost ?
and yes ... the Item is no longer needed as I have replaced it with something else

Did you make it your arcane bond for a while, or upgrade it with gold? In those cases I think you can get back half what you actually spent on it.

OK, seems not.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Wraith235 wrote:
Nefreet wrote:
"Items purchased this way ... cannot be sold"

yes Nefreet ... as you see I Already said that

I am speaking of recouping the enchantment cost ... not the base Item cost

The enchantment is on an item that "cannot be sold".

Dark Archive

Thank you all.

However, He insists that this option may occur other problems like "get a worth 0 gp item to save the enchatment cost" which I did not really get his point. The answer from him is still "No".

Anyway he insists that what we discussed is "Rules as intended" a.k.a RAI not "Rules as written" a.k.a RAW. That is why he refuse to admit. Maybe the only chance to convince this guy is counting on that the PFS field guide of 8th season would particularly announced that.xD

Never mind. At least I know we hold the same opinion about this part.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

4 people marked this as a favorite.

It really annoys me when people refuse to allow something as they've not seen the rule that makes it possible, but as soon as that rule is researched and clearly shown to them, they dig their heels in and ask for even more evidence (unreasonably) because they refuse to admit they might have made a mistake.

He is ignoring RAW & RAI and imposing his own restrictions on PFS. If he's not willing to play by the rules even when pointed out to him, he should be reported to the nearest VL/VC.

If he wants to agitate for a rules change to match his opinion, he should come here and do it.

Sovereign Court

Yea, this is a pretty important thing to be wrong about. The campaign coordinator saying "it works this way in PFS" is RAW. Since no succeeding coordinator has overruled that (and has no reason to), it is still valid. Paz is right, you need to contact a VO because he isn't even close to correct, and he's been shown that and refuses to change it.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Point him to the section of the guide that states rulings by campaign leadership on the message boards are binding, then point him to Josh Frost's message again. Josh's post is the rule, as he was campaign leadership at the time.

The Exchange 5/5

well... looks like the OP has 3 choices:

1) Play under the "rules" the table judge is imposing. (Seems like everyone here realizes that these are "House Rules" and not part of the PFS Campaign).

2) Ignore the table judge and try to work around him, perhaps buying items with PP when at another table, and not mentioning them when at the "problem" table.

3) Not play for that table judge. Run a different table if need be, perhaps providing a #2 for other players. (This is the one I would likely do - I tend to avoid conflict and the first two choices look like they could lead to conflict.) Life is to short for bad gaming...

Anyone see any other choices?

Scarab Sages 4/5

4) Talk to the local Venture Captain, or if the person in question is the local Venture Captain or there isn't one, talk to the regional coordinator.

The Exchange 5/5

Ferious Thune wrote:
4) Talk to the local Venture Captain, or if the person in question is the local Venture Captain or there isn't one, talk to the regional coordinator.

yeah, that might work, though it might just turn into a #2 above (though I personally would likely avoid this #4 for the same reason I would avoid #1 & #2 above).

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

IMO, avoiding conflict is really not the best reason to fail to report an issue to the local VC, especially if the problem exists in your own local area. By doing so, you allow the problem to persist and affect other players. Not really in support of the "cooperation" tenet. Please report the issue, let the VC do their job. It should mean no one has to make special effort to avoid other GM/players.

Dark Archive

Updated:

Well. I was cast out from the group for blaming my group leader as a stuborn guy which I meant no offense here. The sentence is like "making mischief", "having a purity face but has a insidious heart inside". Everything just happened because I posted here. Pretty ironic.

Either way cosidering their privacy the topic will end here.

I just need to find another group and have fun now.

The Exchange 5/5

Hecate Noir wrote:

Updated:

Well. I was cast out from the group for blaming my group leader as a stuborn guy which I meant no offense here. The sentence is like "making mischief", "having a purity face but has a insidious heart inside". Everything just happened because I posted here. Pretty ironic.

Either way cosidering their privacy the topic will end here.

I just need to find another group and have fun now.

sorry to hear that... hope you find another group soon. What part of the world are you in?

if you get to St. Louis, U.S. drop me a note and I'll get a game or several set up for you.

Sovereign Court

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Sorry to hear. A group that kicks you out for asking rules clarifications online due to a problematic GM is probably going to have worse issues down the road.

1/5

Aren't games reported on a user's Paizo account? Couldn't a VO just look to see who reported his game and send them a friendly private message?

Can a VO really kick a person out from a local group for a perceived issue when the real problem is the VO themselves breaking the rules and being too proud to admit it?

This, if true, seems heinous indeed.

Silver Crusade 3/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Also, there's always play by post.

Grand Lodge 4/5

And there's Roll20 as well. Seek thee out the pathfinder society online collective. You can find plenty of gaming opportunity there.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Lune wrote:
Can a VO really kick a person out from a local group for a perceived issue when the real problem is the VO themselves breaking the rules and being too proud to admit it?

There's no implication that the person that Hecate Noir is referring to is a VO.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Paz wrote:
Lune wrote:
Can a VO really kick a person out from a local group for a perceived issue when the real problem is the VO themselves breaking the rules and being too proud to admit it?
There's no implication that the person that Hecate Noir is referring to is a VO.

They can. But then the player kicks up thier complaint to the RVC and Tonya, and if the investigation shows the VO is the problem, they will likely be dealt with accordingly.

3/5

With accordions?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Flind Mayer wrote:
With accordions?

I was thinking more a squeeze box, but sure.

1/5

I also think they should be dealt with accordionly.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I second Bob's suggestion, report it up the line. Frankly this is not a small issue, access to a healing wand can often be the difference between life or death for the entire group.

EDIT: posted before seeing the update... my suggestion pretty is pretty much the same, but now the OP doesn't have to fear negative consequences.

And it might really be a good idea to highlight the fame/PP issue in the next version of the guide, linking to old message board posts is sub optimal.

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

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Hi Hecate,

As others have pointed out, Josh Frost clarified nearly six years ago that spending 2 Prestige Points allows one to acquire an item worth up to 750 gp without having the requisite amount of Fame. To my knowledge, none of the Pathfinder Society organized play leaders over the years have contradicted that ruling—largely because we've felt it was a good one that didn't hurt the game. This might be something for us to address in a revised Guide**, but in the meantime, know that yes, the ruling is still supported by campaign leadership. A PC who spends Prestige Points to acquire an item worth 750 gp or less does ignore the Fame requirement for that item and for that purchase.

I am troubled by your team leader's (not familiar with that title, so I don't know if he or she is a venture-officer of some kind) kicking you out just for questioning that person's opinion of a ruling. Organizers do have some authority to prohibit someone from participating at an event. Ideally they're doing so only after several incidents, after several conversations to lay out the expectations for how players behave, and several opportunities to clean up one's act. That kind of communication is key to promoting a good community and a positive gaming environment. ((Managing the volunteer corps is more Tonya's territory, so any clarification that she offers on that point supercedes mine))

My hope—so long as you are comfortable doing so—is that you can respectfully talk through your differences with this team leader, acknowledge that he or she made a local ruling based on his or her own interpretation, and has since received direct clarification on the matter from campaign leadership. Sometimes making that kind of call is necessary for a GM, and part of the GM-player relationship involves respecting those decisions in the short-term to keep the game moving smoothly—even if you want to research it later and debate other interpretations. It's equally important to accept these clarifications when they do happen.

I hope that you have many opportunities to continue playing Pathfinder RPG. There's a strong online community that's happy to accept you.

** There's a team working through the Guide and cleaning up some of the language, so it's a little early for me to make promises of exactly what will or will not be in there and in what form.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

John Compton wrote:

** There's a team working through the Guide and cleaning up some of the language, so it's a little early for me to make promises of exactly what will or will not be in there and in what form.

If nothing else perhaps your comment will act as directive for the guide revision team.

Dark Archive

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Thank you everyone.

The team leader mentioned in my story is like a sort of fan group organiser or something else. He is not my DM or any pazio officer. The story is all about a rules clarifications discussion.

I intend to let all the stuff go. Life is short and I would not live with bad-gaming and jerks.

I appreciate for your attention.

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