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Apparently, this one is legal for PFS, but I have two FAQ-related questions that are rather key to using this one. I can't seem to find any official answers online (though it could be my lacking search skills).
First, the class archetype says in no uncertain terms that "swords" are required for use of the archetype's abilities. It does not explain which weapons qualify as swords for this archetype. So I assume this is answered elsewhere. Suggestions on where?
Second, the "Brutal Strike (Ex)" replaces "mounted charge" in the archetype, but "mounted charge" isn't something that the Samurai actually possesses. Since the archetype is officially legal without extra notes, so I'm wondering what the samurai "mounted charge" ability does and where to find it. Again, Suggestions?
Thanks.
PS: I know, rules related, but I'm looking for a PFS ruling (or existing rules reference), because it is their FAQ that says this one is fine as is. This would be Dragon Empires Primer, page 22. It could be an oversight, I suppose, but I like to think people do things with intentions, so I assume that if it's allowed, then the above are issues on my end not knowing where the rules are found.
Avoid avoid avoid avoid the archtype.
The second least rules crunchy person I know opted out of this archetype (even at the really expensive pfs rules for swapping archtypes) because the iziatzu strike was such a once in a blue moon thing to pull off that it made the open plain for a mount look positively common. He lurks on the boards but will poke me to put up the "danger will robinson" warning for this one.
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Ok for swords - anything with the word 'sword' in the name is a safe bet. I'd also say anything in the fighter light or heavy sword groups is a pretty good bet.
As for the Brutal Strike - I believe it actually replaces Weapon Expertise based on level and what it does, but it would certainly be nice to know for sure. If there is a clarification I don't know.
I will say I've heard the same thing about Iajitsu as BNW mentioned about it being rare to never happening, though I have seen it happen at a table once. (It was GenCon I've never really seen the archetype used other wise)
I know the last Samurai that was built here ended up being made as a Warpriest instead who took a bunch of things to flavor themselves a Samurai.
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Ok for swords - anything with the word 'sword' in the name is a safe bet. I'd also say anything in the fighter light or heavy sword groups is a pretty good bet.
As for the Brutal Strike - I believe it actually replaces Weapon Expertise based on level and what it does, but it would certainly be nice to know for sure. If there is a clarification I don't know.
I will say I've heard the same thing about Iajitsu as BNW mentioned about it being rare to never happening, though I have seen it happen at a table once. (It was GenCon I've never really seen the archetype used other wise)
I know the last Samurai that was built here ended up being made as a Warpriest instead who took a bunch of things to flavor themselves a Samurai.
See, that's exactly what I thought, so I flipped to the fighter in UC. Turns out, there isn't a "sword" group at all. Just a light and heavy "blade" groups.
So, I looked at the weapons with "sword" in their name. It's a short list, but their are some. Kicker is that the Katana is not actually a sword, which seems really odd for the Samurai to be unable to use with this skill. Plus the Greatsword seems really iffy with this class.
Intention-wise, I think the group is intended to be one-handed slashing weapons (or can be weilded with one hand, like the katana or bastard sword) which can be sheathed in a sword-sheathe like manner.
As for the Brutal Strike, the one it says it replaces is "mounted charge" and I really can't find any online info that says otherwise. The D20pfsrd suggests swapping "mounted archer" which is the logical choice given that the class no longer has a mount... Still, that leaves you with weapon expertise, which include no actual weapons described as "swords..."
For casual play, I'd just ask the GM and it would simple, but since PFS doesn't use a regular GM and they specifically allow the class, seems very much like something that would be clearly addressed by PFS.
It doesn't seem reasonable to ask each GM at every session what they think PFS intended...
Avoid avoid avoid avoid the archtype.
The second least rules crunchy person I know opted out of this archetype (even at the really expensive pfs rules for swapping archtypes) because the iziatzu strike was such a once in a blue moon thing to pull off that it made the open plain for a mount look positively common. He lurks on the boards but will poke me to put up the "danger will robinson" warning for this one.
Yeah, totally a blue moon ability. I'm thinking you'd have another weapon you'd use most of the time, then occasionally, you'd whip out the Iaijutsu Strike with your sheathed weapon. A boss fight sort of thing. The normal weapon being one that doesn't occupy hands would ideal, like a gauntlet, natural weapon, or armor spikes.
I just like it because it takes away all the bits I don't really like on the Samurai, while leaving some neat other abilities, even if highly iffy in function (though I do like banner, just not on the Samurai).
But about that blue moon, yeah, that's the way it's written. Only works against the target of your challenge (1/day at first level), and if you haven't already attacked them, and then requires a full round attack to attack with your already sheathed weapon.
So, realistically, you spend round one challenging, moving into position, and not attacking, then round 2 actually attacking. You'd have to refrain from opportunity attacks (against the target of your challenge) for that round, too.
Opponent would need to be one that would last 2 rounds and no move away, so it's a boss slayer...
Yeah, very very iffy. Would still be fun. And it would really feel like a proper japanese/anime sword wielder <chuckles to self>.
But yeah, with no PFS answer, I probably won't play this one.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Wow, despite having a fighter with both blade groups (his second and third choices) forgot it was blades not swords.
Looking even further though, yeah probably a class for I would avoid in PFS (at least until there's some more clarity to the whole thing)
I would probably start here.
1) As for swords, no reasonable person is going to contest that a katana is a sword. No reasonable person is going to contest that wakizashi is a sword. Use one of those if you want to use this archetype.
There was an update for Fighter weapon groups, so you should reference that instead of the list printed in UC, which means that katanas are heavy blades and wakizashis are light blades.
2) I would say that Mounted Charge is in fact Mounted Archer as you no longer have a mount to utilize Mounted Archer, while a Sword Saint can still utilize Weapon Expertise.
As there is no FAQ, this is just speculation, but it is reasonable speculation and if a GM takes issue with such a basic stance for a mediocre archetype, then you likely don't want to play at their table in the first place.
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I would probably start here.
Swordtrained: Tengus are trained from birth in swordplay, and as a result are automatically proficient with swordlike weapons (including bastard swords, daggers, elven curve blades, falchions, greatswords, kukris, longswords, punching daggers, rapiers, scimitars, short swords, and two-bladed swords)
That's a good point. Granted, this list was created prior to UC and doesn't mention any eastern weapons, but that is a great reference point for this topic. Yeah, awesome find.
As there is no FAQ, this is just speculation, but it is reasonable speculation and if a GM takes issue with such a basic stance for a mediocre archetype, then you likely don't want to play at their table in the first place.
That does seem like a solid argument. And I agree, very mediocre and there is no FAQ.
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First, I'm still exploring this one, but of the following weapons, which do you think would apply as "swords" for this archetype:
Dagger
Shortsword
Katana
Nodachi (described as "swordlike")
Greatsword
Granted, with all of these, the class requires using a "sword in one hand and carrying nothing in his other hand."
So the Nodachi and Greatsword wouldn't work unless the PC could wield it one with a single hand (which can, ultimately, be done). Katana would require one-hand wielding (since they can be wielded in one or two hands).
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Considering that nodachi or odachi translates from Japanese as greatsword or field sword, I would classify it as a sword. :D
Honestly, if a sword saint wants to use a dagger, then I'd have zero issues with it. It is a bladed weapon that falls into the light blades category which includes shortsword and other swords. Also, it is statistically worse that a katana and wakizashi, both weapons that sword saints benefit from. It is the most questionable, but it honestly has no real crunch abuse to it and you can argue for it, so why not, right?
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Considering that nodachi or odachi translates from Japanese as greatsword or field sword, I would classify it as a sword. :D
Honestly, if a sword saint wants to use a dagger, then I'd have zero issues with it. It is a bladed weapon that falls into the light blades category which includes shortsword and other swords. Also, it is statistically worse that a katana and wakizashi, both weapons that sword saints benefit from. It is the most questionable, but it honestly has no real crunch abuse to it and you can argue for it, so why not, right?
The dagger is worse, but there are considerably more class/feat buffs for daggers than the eastern weapons.
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I would personally rule yes for all of those weapons, assuming you had Titan Mauler to let you wield them in one hand.
As far as making the Sword Saint work goes though, the Order Of The Flame is perfect for making Iaijutsu strikes consistently. You'll need plenty of backup weapons, but you can move from one to the next while chaining challenges.
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I played a Sword-Saint through Jade Regent with other PFS players. The iajutsu strike ability is -really- hard to use while it is a full-round action. At 10th level, when it is a standard action, it is far more effective: swift action to challenge, move action to approach, and standard action to iajutsu strike. Brutal strike is very effective in reducing the power of the mooks around the boss.
Edit: My sword-saint was order of the shield, which I also found very potent.
I would probably start here.Wow, despite having a fighter with both blade groups (his second and third choices) forgot it was blades not swords.
Looking even further though, yeah probably a class for I would avoid in PFS (at least until there's some more clarity to the whole thing)
This was and is the best answer so far. And it´s not even an exclusive list there.
Expect table variation on the nodachi. I would let it fly though.
Thing with the dagger is, there´s no such ingame term as a sword weapon group as i am aware. Only light and heavy blades, and the dagger is in the light blade group.
Yes there are potentially more feats applying to daggers than other weapons, including the more flavor appropriate wakizashi, but that´s no reason to say a dagger doesn´t belong.
It might be a thing to note for designers, that weapons groups could use some more clarification and that one could think about making a dagger/light blade weapon group and say, wakizashi, dagger, kukri and similar weapons are all the same, even though in different weapon categories, and stuff that applies to one can apply to others.
Streamlining.
The system seriously punishes people trying to maintain two weapons. You have to buy special materials twice, buy enchantments twice, feats twice etc. You could just forgo the strikes entirely and put an extra d6 of elemental damage on the wearpon to pretty much the same effect.
I played a Sword-Saint through Jade Regent with other PFS players. The iajutsu strike ability is -really- hard to use while it is a full-round action. At 10th level, when it is a standard action, it is far more effective: swift action to challenge, move action to approach, and standard action to iajutsu strike. Brutal strike is very effective in reducing the power of the mooks around the boss.
Edit: My sword-saint was order of the shield, which I also found very potent.
But pfs play kinda ends at 12, so an ability that becomes useful IF you reach the end of your PFS career is pretty bad for PFS.
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Specifically constructed for samurai, katanas employ multiple types of steel combined in a distinctive forging process. The result are swords noted for their wickedly sharp yet slender, gently curved blades, designed to make graceful hacking strokes capable of severing opponents’ heads and limbs. Though finely balanced, these blades are difficult to master.
I think you're safe considering a katana a sword.
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Okay, sounds like I'm in the clear on the Original topic.
So two more follow ups:
I'm thinking I want to do Order of the Green. That's from Heroes of the Wild. Nothing remotely OP about it, but the language for the Samurai's Order ability seems to suggest that only certain Orders from APG are Samurai eligible.
I can pick any PFS legal Order, right?
You know, providing they don't reference abilities that the Samurai/sword Saint just doesn't have.
Also, is a Samurai considered to be a Cavalier for the purposes of favored class bonuses? It does seem to be written that way.
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Also, is a Samurai considered to be a Cavalier for the purposes of favored class bonuses? It does seem to be written that way.
Thats... a really big question.
When they came out alternate classes were repeatedly described as really big archtypes with the work done for you in both the rules and by developer clarification. Then unchained came out and oops.. you could make an unchained ninja. So then they said no unchained ninjas, slated that part of the book to be taken out and kinda left what the heck alternate classes actually are up in the air.
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Also, is a Samurai considered to be a Cavalier for the purposes of favored class bonuses? It does seem to be written that way.
Thats... a really big question.
When they came out alternate classes were repeatedly described as really big archtypes with the work done for you in both the rules and by developer clarification. Then unchained came out and oops.. you could make an unchained ninja. So then they said no unchained ninjas, slated that part of the book to be taken out and kinda left what the heck alternate classes actually are up in the air.
Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable, as I can't find any races with actual bonuses to Samurai and the alternate class certainly implies that it's a Cavalier equivalent.
Though easily half of the cavalier favored class bonuses affect the mount, which a sword saint doesn't have, so it's not a huge issue if it doesn't qualify.
Dunno, I suppose I could just do it, and then remove it if any GM actually objects or calls it into question. I'm not exactly designed a PC meant to be OP, so I don't really think it would come up for me personally.
I am pretty amazed how much grey area there is for the Samurai (and sword saint) considering how long they've been out and that they are PFS legal.
Though I think it's as you say, bignorse wolf, it's just not a very OP class, so they just haven't had the bitter debates that generate a need for an FAQ.
I am pretty sure that the unchained ninja is supposed to be the only thing nixed by the "not an archtype anymore" thing and your swordsaint should be ok. Alternate class abilities were one of the reasons that the alternate classes were confirmed as archtypes.
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Dagger
Shortsword
Katana
Nodachi (described as "swordlike")
Greatsword
On a side note, the reason I picked these weapons is as follows:
Katana was there because it seems the most clearly intended to work with the class, but doesn't actually refer to itself as a sword.
Dagger, Shortsword, and Greatsword are all Deity Specific Weapons from the core patheon. So being a Dagger Sword Saint of Alseta, for example, is potentially an option. There is an Order designed to work well with multi-class clerics/paladins (Order of the Star). The Sentinel, Exalted, and Evangelist Presige classes are all neat options for a Sword Saint, provided a deity sacred sword-weapon.
Nodachi is was picked because it's clearly not a sword, but is described as "swordlike" which, if accepted, does open doors for other "swordlike" weapons. Plus I really think the weapon is cool.
Anyway, thanks for the help on this one. I've got my next 4, or so, characters here.
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Lol, another one.
Samurai Resolve(Ex), second use of Resolve:
Determined: As a standard action, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve to remove the fatigued, shaken, or sickened condition. If the samurai is at least 8th level, he can alternatively remove the exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered condition. If the condition has a duration longer than 1 hour or is permanent, this ability removes the condition for 1 hour, at which time the condition returns.
Since it calls for a standard action while nauseated....is the idea that I remove the nauseated condition at the start of my turn, then count as having used a standard action for that round?
Seems like the reasonable interpretation. Won't matter for 7 levels, so I've got time for slow responses...
A Nodachi is most definitely a sword. It is literally a longer katana.
Wakizashi, Katana and Nodachi are the eastern equivalent of short sword, longsword, and greatsword.
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Nope, in common with a number of these abilities it simply doesn't work. You see the same thing with Paladins swift action lay on hands to remove nauseated (no longer possible post FAQ) and the cleanse spell which includes various conditions which prevent you from casting spells.Likewise you cannot remove frightened either as you are unable to take such actions while frightened.
Yeah, no. If you're ruling that an ability doesn't do anything you're probably ruling it wrong.
A paladins lay on hands at least has the possibility of taking a condition off of another player. The samurai's ability ONLY takes it off of the samurai, so it has to be usable. This should probably be read as -using this ability is a non action they can only take during their turn, but the samurai loses their standard action that round if they do so-
Yeah, no. If you're ruling that an ability doesn't do anything you're probably ruling it wrong.
A paladins lay on hands at least has the possibility of taking a condition off of another player. The samurai's ability ONLY takes it off of the samurai, so it has to be usable. This should probably be read as "using this ability is a non action they can only take during their turn, but the samurai loses their standard action that round if they do so"
Its a badly written rule, much like the Cleanse spell or Surmount Affliction, both of which claim they can remove Dazed despite you not being able to take actions while dazed. Similarly Surmount claims to be able to remove Frightened from you.
Its just another form of Prone Shooter.
None of those are prone shooter. They're more like wild speech in that part of it doesn't work or is redundant (in wild speech's case druids in wild shape can already talk to the critters they're emulating) but the rest of it works just fine.
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Katana was there because it seems the most clearly intended to work with the class, but doesn't actually refer to itself as a sword.
Katana does refer to itself as a sword (though Wakizashi just says blade).
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Katana does refer to itself as a sword (though Wakizashi just says blade).Katana was there because it seems the most clearly intended to work with the class, but doesn't actually refer to itself as a sword.
Wow...missed it twice. Both the reading and the quote before. Fail.
Thanks for the persistence.
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Yeah, no. If you're ruling that an ability doesn't do anything you're probably ruling it wrong.
A paladins lay on hands at least has the possibility of taking a condition off of another player. The samurai's ability ONLY takes it off of the samurai, so it has to be usable. This should probably be read as "using this ability is a non action they can only take during their turn, but the samurai loses their standard action that round if they do so"
Its a badly written rule, much like the Cleanse spell or Surmount Affliction, both of which claim they can remove Dazed despite you not being able to take actions while dazed. Similarly Surmount claims to be able to remove Frightened from you.
Its just another form of Prone Shooter.
None of those are prone shooter. They're more like wild speech in that part of it doesn't work or is redundant (in wild speech's case druids in wild shape can already talk to the critters they're emulating) but the rest of it works just fine.
Both of these spells can be used to clear daze.
Contingency
Contingent scroll
Share spell
There are lots of ways to use personal spells on other people or without actions.
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Lol, another one.
Samurai Resolve(Ex), second use of Resolve:
Determined: As a standard action, the samurai can spend one use of his resolve to remove the fatigued, shaken, or sickened condition. If the samurai is at least 8th level, he can alternatively remove the exhausted, frightened, nauseated, or staggered condition. If the condition has a duration longer than 1 hour or is permanent, this ability removes the condition for 1 hour, at which time the condition returns.Since it calls for a standard action while nauseated....is the idea that I remove the nauseated condition at the start of my turn, then count as having used a standard action for that round?
Seems like the reasonable interpretation. Won't matter for 7 levels, so I've got time for slow responses...
Nope, in common with a number of these abilities it simply doesn't work. You see the same thing with Paladins swift action lay on hands to remove nauseated (no longer possible post FAQ) and the cleanse spell which includes various conditions which prevent you from casting spells.
Likewise you cannot remove frightened either as you are unable to take such actions while frightened.
Which FAQ are you referencing? I looked at the FAQ, and saw nothing referring to a Paladin's Lay on Hands ability. I'm not doubting you I simply wasn't able to find it, and would like to see what it says.
Nauseated and Actions: Does the nauseated condition really mean what it says when it says “The only action such a character can take is a single move action per turn” or does it just mean I can’t take a standard action?
The nauseated condition really means what it says. You are limited to one move action per round, and not any other actions. Compare to the staggered condition, which says “A staggered creature may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can he take full-round actions). A staggered creature can still take free, swift, and immediate actions.”
Which has broken a number of abilities into technically not working.
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Ugh, this class is a headache of grey rules.
Okay, now I'm second guessing the "Mounted Charge" bit above.
Brutal Strike replaces mounted charge at 3rd level.
Weapon expertise is 3rd level while mounted archery is 4th. So I don't really have mounted archery to swap at 4rd level.
Furthermore, Brutal Strike adds 1/2 my class level to crit confirmation with the Iaijutsu Strike. Weapon Expertise adds +2 crit confirmation with the chosen weapon. So Iaijutsu Strike with Brutal Slash and Weapon Expertise (Katana) is looking at 1/2 class level +2 for crit confirmation.
Seems odd the class would stack bonuses to the same action. I think more likely, Brutal Slash actually replaces Weapon Expertise, as the two are very similarly worded. Brutal Slash is just more generic Sword focused than Weapon Expertise.
But that still leaves me with mounted archer and no mount...
I like the concept, but I might ditch this character just because I keep running into rules which are far too grey for PFS random GMs and players. It would be fine for a regular group, but I don't think this is sort of thing I should bring to PFS.
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Lol, found a solution of sorts. I'll just take a single level of Sword Saint, then load up with levels in another class.
Since most of the class issues relate to later levels, just taking a single level should solve the main issues. Annoying to lose access to the later versions of the class, but it's still a steal for the number of abilities gained at level 1 between the Samurai and the Sword Saint.
Loss of the Samurai's mount actually makes this option stronger, as I don't have to worry about having a mount that doesn't level with my PC
Plus, given the blue moon nature of the sword saint's Iaijutsu Strike, not leveling it further isn't a horrible option. Might actually make the character more viable.
Thanks for help.
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Is the Sword Saint Mounted Charge thing FAQ yet though? <_<
No FAQ at all. PFS additional resources just says it's legal, or rather, they say that the archetypes on the pages it's on, are legal.
So my "solution" is just to take one level of Sword Saint. I'll never get the brutal slash (ex), so it won't matter the ruling on what brutal slash swaps for when it replaces "mounted charge."
I have been thinking that Iaijutsu Strike would be a really solid option for a caster, as it allows them to draw and attack in one motion. Also useful since enemies will likely come to a caster, while the weak point on the Iaijutsu strike is in wasting a round getting to melee range.
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Um, I would like to Refer to you to a friend of mine. He doesn't post here often, but his PFS Sword-Saint just reached level 10 last week. He has like, 180-something HP or something like that and is super-duper tanky. He uses Crane Style feats, gets up in the faces, and pulls of the Iajutsu Strike quite consistently. And once a day, he gets it enhanced by his scabbard of vigor. He has a lot of fun playing him, too.
From my witness experience, Sword saint is not a bad choice, and it definitely beats trying to finagle a mount all over the place.
I'll see if I can get him up in here. He can explain it much better.
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My Sword Saint 7/ misc 2, has only used Iajutsu strike once in 30 scenarios (took several levels slow). He only has a little over 80 hp so I'm definitely curious about your friends build Brigg. Anyway, there are many times I've regretted taking the archetype as the banner ability would have been used more often than any aspect of iajutsu; heck, same could probably even be said about a mount at this point. There are just too many penalties for an underwhelming ability.
Action economy: requires full-round action until near retirement, in fact, because of my level dips, I won't get the standard action until my samurai becomes a seeker. If and when I take him past retirement I will be using it much more often.
Utility: the sheathed weapon requirement isn't too bad as you can close with a different weapon as others have suggested, but this can only be used once per target, that you haven't attacked yet, and only against targets of your challenge, which in PFS, unless you go Order of the Flame is going to be capped at 4 times per day by level 10.
Penalties: So, in addition to the restriction on action economy and limited number of uses, you also take -4 AC in addition to the penalty of challenge, leaving you particularly vulnerable to other targets in exchange for a few extra d6's on one attack that can't crit (which seems to go against the spirit of brutal slash at level 3). Furthermore, I will say that for my intimidation build, terrifying iajutsu has a much lower DC (15 will save @ lvl 9 if I didn't dip) vs my normal intimidation bonus of +21 (+2 if I'm raging) with no rolls for the enemy, just a fixed DC to demoralize. You're also getting rid of 4 class features that could, arguably, have 100% uptime for a single ability with limited uses per day.
I think you'd probably gain more enjoyment using Doragon Feiku's method of "Iajutsu Striiiike". If you just want something for flavor that's perfectly fine, but by the same token you could just reflavor something else and actually be able to use it more often, for much greater effect, or at least with less penalty. I typically just joke that I Iajutsu strike a door with my adamantine katana when my party needs to make use of my 'skeleton key'.
Regarding rules, he's used his katana without issue and I've just gone with d20's guidance that mounted archer is replaced. Although, to be fair most people I've played with probably don't even know that my samurai is a sword saint, given that he doesn't use his abilities, so there's not much opportunity to really object to his build.
Considering that nodachi or odachi translates from Japanese as greatsword or field sword, I would classify it as a sword. :D
Honestly, if a sword saint wants to use a dagger, then I'd have zero issues with it. It is a bladed weapon that falls into the light blades category which includes shortsword and other swords. Also, it is statistically worse that a katana and wakizashi, both weapons that sword saints benefit from. It is the most questionable, but it honestly has no real crunch abuse to it and you can argue for it, so why not, right?
Wakizashi also literally translates as 'short sword' or 'honor sword', depending on interpretation.
Katana literally means 'long sword'. Dai-Katana literally means 'long war sword', i.e. what a bastard sword is to a long sword, a sword for battle instead of for the court.
So, just remember katana is like saying tachi is like saying sword...different words for the same thing in different languages, simply coming to be associated with 'specific' meanings in English.
==Aelryinth
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Considering that nodachi or odachi translates from Japanese as greatsword or field sword, I would classify it as a sword. :D
Honestly, if a sword saint wants to use a dagger, then I'd have zero issues with it. It is a bladed weapon that falls into the light blades category which includes shortsword and other swords. Also, it is statistically worse that a katana and wakizashi, both weapons that sword saints benefit from. It is the most questionable, but it honestly has no real crunch abuse to it and you can argue for it, so why not, right?
Wakizashi also literally translates as 'short sword' or 'honor sword', depending on interpretation.
Katana literally means 'long sword'. Dai-Katana literally means 'long war sword', i.e. what a bastard sword is to a long sword, a sword for battle instead of for the court.
So, just remember katana is like saying tachi is like saying sword...different words for the same thing in different languages, simply coming to be associated with 'specific' meanings in English.
==Aelryinth
Umm. No. Where are you pulling that from? Like, you can confirm accuracy of that statement just from wikipedia... Where you get idea that dai-katana is "long war sword" instead of just "big sword"? .-.
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Penalties: So, in addition to the restriction on action economy and limited number of uses, you also take -4 AC in addition to the penalty of challenge, leaving you particularly vulnerable to other targets in exchange for a few extra d6's on one attack that can't crit (which seems to go against the spirit of brutal slash at level 3).
Depends.
If the target of your challenge dies, then the penalty to AC from challenge goes away (instantly, as far as I can tell). Your still left with that -4 AC. It's clearly designed to be a one-hit-wonder attack.
I do think the damage gained is low, given that the Sword Saint is unable to use two hands to wield their sword. Then again, as the target of the challenge, you are adding your level to the damage too.
Not sure, but I do think power attack could be used with Iaijutsu Strike. Mind you, if you miss the target, you can't try again, which really makes any ability that lowers your attack roll seem iffy.
So, level 1 Small Sword Saint with katana is 2d6+1+Str with Iaijutsu Strike. You've also got an 18-20 crit range to multiply 1d6+1+Str into 2d6+2+(2xStr), which totals to 3d6+2+(2xStr) via Iaijutsu Strike.
So, with Abadar's Measured Response feat (pretty sure it applies here) and a 14 strength, the katana halfling sword saint is doing 10 damage with normal Iaijutsu Strike, and 16 on a crit.
That seems like pretty sturdy damage for a level 1, even with a relatively low strength mod and the small version of the weapon. Especially given that it doesn't require the opponent to do anything other than be hit.
Also, I was thinking before that the Swift action for challenge would require an additional round, as I forgot that you can swift on the turn you make a full round action. So, if they come to you, Iaijutsu Stike could function in a single round. Less of a blue moon ability now.
Umm. No. Where are you pulling that from? Like, you can confirm accuracy of that statement just from wikipedia... Where you get idea that dai-katana is "long war sword" instead of just "big sword"? .-.Considering that nodachi or odachi translates from Japanese as greatsword or field sword, I would classify it as a sword. :D
Honestly, if a sword saint wants to use a dagger, then I'd have zero issues with it. It is a bladed weapon that falls into the light blades category which includes shortsword and other swords. Also, it is statistically worse that a katana and wakizashi, both weapons that sword saints benefit from. It is the most questionable, but it honestly has no real crunch abuse to it and you can argue for it, so why not, right?
Wakizashi also literally translates as 'short sword' or 'honor sword', depending on interpretation.
Katana literally means 'long sword'. Dai-Katana literally means 'long war sword', i.e. what a bastard sword is to a long sword, a sword for battle instead of for the court.
So, just remember katana is like saying tachi is like saying sword...different words for the same thing in different languages, simply coming to be associated with 'specific' meanings in English.
==Aelryinth
Lone Wolf and Cub!
The main character uses a dai-katana specifically made for war, not court use! It was part of the translation notes. Might've been further noted as a specific style, it's been a while!
==Aelryinth