I was recently thinking of making a half-elf character that is actually small sized. More specifically she's a fey creature (the template) and the intent is that her heritage is pixie. Her first level Fey power is to take the form of 'a normal specimen of its base creature' which would be of course medium... but her true form she's small because of the pixie heritage.
However, I was wondering what people thought would be the pros and cons from another GM's point of view on doing this.
So, if you were running a game where you allowed players to make a core character with a +1 template (which the Fey template is) and I asked if I could make a small fey half-elf, would you allow it or not and why?
What about a player that wanted to play a real life 'little person' (I am using that since there are more than one genetic condition that causes a person to be smaller, and because some words are considered not polite) and wanted to make a small human?
The 'Young' template should be looked at.
Being small has no real major disadvantage (but does give bonus AC, bonus to hit and bonus to Stealth, your gear also weighs proportionately less) so your GM has every right to say no to simply adjusting your size down on category...
Think of it this way I have actually see an adult human of less than 1/2 average height, definitely counting as Small, so this isn't just a phenomenon you find if you go fishing in Wikipedia. Now obviously the fraction of the population is extremely low, but the probability is greater than zero that one of them might actually want to play D&D/Pathfinder. "Sorry, you can only play a full-sized Human, or a Halfling and no Human Bonus Feat" doesn't seem like a good answer.
There are serious mechanical changes that take place by changing size. Non-melee characters benefit from reductions in size, even melee/sneak attackers benefit (+4 Stealth? Yes please!).
Armor class improves, you get a bonus to hit things...
You can ride medium mounts into dungeons...
There are few advantages to playing medium creatures. Tiny bonus on CMD/CMB vs being small (a difference of ONE point).
As a GM, I don't allow arbitrary changes in size. Just because there are midget humans (and 8 foot tall humans) doesn't mean the GM is obligated to allow them in his game.
I would give the player the option of applying the young template, or figure out some other tradeoff, I wouldn't simply allow a change in size.
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I was recently thinking of making a half-elf character that is actually small sized. More specifically she's a fey creature (the template) and the intent is that her heritage is pixie. Her first level Fey power is to take the form of 'a normal specimen of its base creature' which would be of course medium... but her true form she's small because of the pixie heritage.
However, I was wondering what people thought would be the pros and cons from another GM's point of view on doing this.
So, if you were running a game where you allowed players to make a core character with a +1 template (which the Fey template is) and I asked if I could make a small fey half-elf, would you allow it or not and why?
What about a player that wanted to play a real life 'little person' (I am using that since there are more than one genetic condition that causes a person to be smaller, and because some words are considered not polite) and wanted to make a small human?
Take a peak at the wildblooded sorcerer with the sylvan bloodline. The 15th level power actually shrinks the PC and grows them little pixie wings. I know, 15th level, but at first level, you can take "Reduce Person."
You can always roleplay this the opposite of what is actually happening. Instead of being a half elf that shrinks herself, you could be a pixie that often takes the guise of a half elf.
The rules end only really matters if you insist that the GM alter the rules to reflect the roleplay.
iirc, the kineticist iconic is a small sized human despite it not following the games standard mechanics. So I think it should be fine.
They cost the same RP in the ARG. It's up to your GM but it's not unreasonable.
And don't forget weapon damage dice go down a step for small characters. That's the real disadvantage some folks aren't accounting for.Medium (0 RP)
Medium races have no bonuses or penalties due to their size. A Medium creature has a space of 5 feet by 5 feet and a reach of 5 feet.
Small (0 RP)
Small races gain a +1 size bonus to their AC, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, a –1 penalty on combat maneuver checks and to their CMD, and a +4 size bonuson Stealth checks. Small races have a space of 5 feet by 5 feet and a reach of 5 feet.
On average, losing one or two points of damage per attack... of course, for casters it doesn't matter...
Reduce Person, Permanency is an existing method to make medium characters small.
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As dwarfism and midgets are real, I like the idea. I've also decided to have occasional npcs afflicted with giantism, conjoined twins, and plenty of other bizarre mutations that are actually drawn from reality. There are a few conjoined twins that are fully two-headed people - think of how fascinating an encounter like that could be!
Ability Score Adjustments: In the same way an adult character gains adjustments to her ability scores as she reaches middle, old, and venerable age, a young character occupies a new pre-adulthood age category, and therefore has altered physical ability scores, though the vigor of youth does grant some benefit. A young character has a +2 bonus to Dexterity and a —2 penalty to Strength, Constitution, and Wisdom.
Drop the penalty to Wisdom and maybe Constitution and this could work for a small sized character. Of course you would also adjust damage dice and ac bonus and such.
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Young template is one way to go.
The other way is to simply make them small. Being medium and being small are both +0 race points, as neither is considered a special advantage or disadvantage. As a GM I would just say "Sure, make her small with normal small-sized bonuses and penalties". Done.
I agree that using the young template is probably the best way to go here.
Just allowing a creature to be small instead of medium without the other penalties that the young template applies is pretty imbalanced. Anyone except for a melee character stands to benefit greatly.
The -4 strength and con penalties really help to balance out the dexterity bonus and other size bonuses that would be received.
I would just have the character be small with no other ability score adjustments. This is what was done for the iconic kineticist.
That's because she actually is an 8 year old human.
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I would just have the character be small with no other ability score adjustments. This is what was done for the iconic kineticist.That's because she actually is an 8 year old human.
Who if she wasn't a PC, would have had the young template applied. As she was a PC, making her small with no ability adjustments didn't break anything.
I don't think i'd be for any mechanical adjustments. Fluff it to whatever size you want... but to start cherry-picking the various bonuses you want?? I wouldn't be for that.
Especially if there was an advantage. if the character was a sorcerer... then Small is awesome and there's no downside. If they are melee fighter... then I can be convinced that it's all for flavor and they aren't gaining anything.
Though I would still recommend just fluffing it and not nerfing the character.
I vaguely recall an early d20 3rd party product that had Small size as a feat for characters of races that were normally Medium sized. That might be about the right cost for players who would find such an option desirable.
I wasn't looking at any bonuses to Dex or reductions in STR, just the size difference. So, +1 to hit, +1 AC, etc.
Plus, especially as others have said hosing her stats with the young template is definitely not on the table.
And yes, she's a paladin if that matters for 'flavor'
It's actually this character, and she was originally designed as a pixie paladin in 2nd edition (where pixies still had shapeshifting that was removed in 3.5 and Paizo didn't bring back but I did to a lesser degree, giving her Alter Self rather than the Polymorph pixies had in 2nd ed) but I recently decided to redesign her a bit less powerful while still keeping her concept. Hence why I was thinking of making her a small fey half-elf with the ability to turn into a normal sized half elf.
And yeah, people do make a good point that small and medium are both 0 RP. They balance out.
It's funny too, I thought I made myself clear, but apparently not.
"Ask your GM" means nothing to me because there is no GM other than me at this time. This is asking for rules/advice/what would you do...
That said, the reason I am asking is because I am thinking of running a game where I allow players to play with a +1 template, and so I was thinking of bringing Lemoncherry into the game too because some of the players who know about her really like her. So, was thinking of doing her the same way as the players.
Also, she will most of the time stay in her 'half-elf' form. She doesn't advertise that she's a 'pixie' and she wont' miss the invisibility because she saw it as dishonorable anyway (although later she can pick up vanish which will allow her to be invisible about the amount of time I had her spend invisible as an actual pixie).
Looks like most people think that just making her small instead of medium is no big deal, and especially since that's what Paizo did with the iconic kineticist...
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One thing they did on the iconic was reduce her speed to 20' so that might be an option that does potentially offer a penalty. Keep in mind as well that most gear found is sized for medium so depending on class armor/weapons for example won't necessarily be sized for them.
Small size isn't the problem. You are asking about a +1 template which opens a whole new can of worms. I've played small size and have no issue making a normal medium race small. The +1 template I would say no to because it adds more power to a starting character that other players do not get unless they are given equvilent power.
Uh...
So, if you were running a game where you allowed players to make a core character with a +1 template (which the Fey template is) and I asked if I could make a small fey half-elf, would you allow it or not and why?
Learn to read?
One thing they did on the iconic was reduce her speed to 20' so that might be an option that does potentially offer a penalty. Keep in mind as well that most gear found is sized for medium so depending on class armor/weapons for example won't necessarily be sized for them.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. As for the size of gear thing, that's already been in the rules since forever because people play halflings and gnomes. A small version of a base race would have the same chances to find clothes/gear as them.
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Okay, thinking about this one. I'd just do a background trait. Race would be a fair category.
Stunted Growth (race trait)
Prerequisites: race that grows sizes from child to adult.
Benefit: Reduce full grown adult size by one category (Adult Human would be Small). Character is always discounted as a child of their race, incurring a -4 penalty on Intimidate and Profession checks. These penalties can be negated if the PC uses the disguise skill to appear as an adult of their own race (normal penalties for disguising as a larger creature). Furthermore, the base speed of the creature is reduced by half (after racial modifiers, but before class/feat/spell adjustments).
Basically, just alters the size. Intimidate and Profession seems like the two where being assumed to be a child would be the main issues.