How useful is UMD to a wizard?

[dwilhelmi]

I am currently playing around with a Samsaran Wizard character, and contemplating the option of selecting UMD for one of my two Shards of the Past skills, which would make it a class skill for me and give me a +2 racial bonus to it. I could also take Pragmatic Activator trait to use Int for UMD instead of Cha. In total, that would give me a total of +11 to UMD at level 1 (+5 int, +2 racial, +3 class skill, 1 skill point).

I've always liked the idea of UMD, but what I don't know is how much it would really help a wizard to have it. In my regular party there will be an inquisitor and a bard, so any long term buff spells from those lists I can just hand a wand to one of them. So what really valuable uses can you think of that a Wizard could do with a high UMD, if any? I am very new to Pathfinder, so I'm not intimately familiar with what is really useful in practice.

Alternatively, are there any really great arcane spells that are not on the wizard list that I would benefit from with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait?

[dwilhelmi]

Longstrider seems like a really nice spell, with the hour long duration with a level 1 spell. Given that I would have to give up relatively little to get it (one of my two Shards of the Past skills and a single trait) even Longstrider alone seems like it might make it worth it. Are there any other standout non-wizard (bonus for non-inquisitor and non-bard as well) spells that would be really useful as a wand or scroll? Alternatively, is there a place where I can search for spells that are not on a particular list? I haven't run across anything myself.

[Kayerloth]

For my Loremaster (in 3.5) it was useful. In part this was because the party had no divine caster or healing capability so it enabled him to use curative wands, staffs and other items (including things like Restoration, Raise Dead etc.). It helps that an awful lot of the usages are flat, non-scaling DC checks as well.

[Ciaran Barnes]

I would say that it is less useful for a wizard that it is for othe classes. The skill list is already extremely diverse and way too big, and if you find something it doesn't cover then there is likely a spell you already have that you could be casting instead. On the flip side, such magic use is probably beneath a wizard. ;)

Personally, though it has been available as a skill since 3rd edition I have never put a point in it or even rolled a UMD check as a DM/GM.

[CN_Minus]

UMD for primary casters is less useful than it might be for Bards or Hunters or the like, as Ciaran said. That being so, it doesn't make it useless. Grab spells you like from other lists as wands. Use class-only items at will.

Expanded spell access is really good in general, even if that's all you're looking to do with UMD.

[Deighton Thrane]

If you're taking an improved familiar it can be incredibly handy for want activation, since the familiar can use either theirs or your ranks in UMD.

[UnArcaneElection]

It has occurred to me that if you want to be a Thassilonian (Sin Magic) Specialist Wizard, for which 2 Schools of magic are Prohibited instead of just Opposition, Use Magic Device becomes a LOT more attractive as a way to get those Prohibited School spells back.

[Movin]

The big trick for wizards with UMD is Staff-like wand

As mentioned before Improved familiars benefit and normal ones with AnthropomorphicAnimal cast on it.

@Mystic past life.
The Witch has all sorts of fun arcane spells that wizards can't access normally.
Reincarnation, Ill Omen, three fold aspect, that sort of stuff.

[dwilhelmi]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! It sounds like it wouldn't be the most optimized choice, but still a useful one for some things. Particularly liked the reference to Anthropomorphic Animal - I hadn't seen that before, and I love the idea of a humanized, speaking greensting scorpion blasting with a wand :D

[Blakmane]

UMD is definitely an optimal choice if you have a familiar. Even without a familiar UMD still remains one of the best value skills in the game, and wizards have plenty of skill points to go around.

[Moto Muck]

I don't think Anthropomorphic Animal works on familiars. AA only affects animals and familiars are considered magical beasts.

Relevant quote found under familiar section: "It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type."

[Narquelion]

Moto Muck wrote:

I don't think Anthropomorphic Animal works on familiars. AA only affects animals and familiars are considered magical beasts.

Relevant quote found under familiar section: "It retains the appearance, Hit Dice, base attack bonus, base save bonuses, skills, and feats of the normal animal it once was, but is now a magical beast for the purpose of effects that depend on its type."

Yup. Luckily, a simple alter self is enough to turn your familiar in a halfling if you need them to have a pair of hands. (and if you can live with looking like a slave-owning noble from Cheliax, I suppose.)

Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).

[Movin]

True in the case of normal magical beasts. Familiars are special.

Share Spells: The wizard may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself. A wizard may cast spells on his familiar even if the spells do not normally affect creatures of the familiar's type (magical beast).

The bolded sentence is what I base my assumption on. It would be good to know if this is incorrect as I've used this trick several times before.

[Letric]

Movin wrote:

The big trick for wizards with UMD is Staff-like wand

As mentioned before Improved familiars benefit and normal ones with AnthropomorphicAnimal cast on it.

@Mystic past life.
The Witch has all sorts of fun arcane spells that wizards can't access normally.
Reincarnation, Ill Omen, three fold aspect, that sort of stuff.

Any sane DM wouldn't allow Divine Wands to be activated by a Wizard and enjoy his caster level and INT.

I think most people would call it cheese.

On the other hand there are several interesting buffs you can get out of Divine List, but it's even better if you find a way to craft the wands yourself, but there's the problem of not knowing the spell and it's a prerequisite to do so.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

It has occurred to me that if you want to be a Thassilonian (Sin Magic) Specialist Wizard, for which 2 Schools of magic are Prohibited instead of just Opposition, Use Magic Device becomes a LOT more attractive as a way to get those Prohibited School spells back.

Yes I will have to 100% agree here. I enjoy playing a Gluttony Wizard and the Lost of Abjuration is pretty big. It is the loss of many good protection spells: Shield, Protection from Good/Evil, Endure Elements, Resist Energy, Dispel Magic, and Stoneskin. All really good spells for Wands/Scrolls and very useful for Combat protection.

UMD is also very good for Improved Familiars with hands. They can use your Skill ranks in it.

But UDM is much more useful on say...A Paladin. He doesn't get many spells so if he can Skill in things like Mirror Image, Stone Skin, Shield, Longstrider, fly, Feather step. He is doing a heck of a lot better for himself and making a stronger character with just a investment of 1 skill per level and a trait. Seems more than worth it to me.

[Cavall]

Personally I think it's a skill best used for those with a point or so to spare. This makes rogues and bards likely king of the mountain, bards even more so because of their natural bonus.

Paladins don't have as many skills and frankly they need perception, Diplomacy and sense motive, but if you have a human skill boost or a 12+ int yes it's worth adding enough to at least make it reliable. You'll have to grab a trait for them to make it a class skill however. Not the worst use of a trait ever.

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Cavall wrote:

Paladins don't have as many skills and frankly they need perception, Diplomacy and sense motive, but if you have a human skill boost or a 12+ int yes it's worth adding enough to at least make it reliable. You'll have to grab a trait for them to make it a class skill however. Not the worst use of a trait ever.

A Human Paladin with 10 Int gets 3 skill points:

UMD and Diplomacy should be Priority as your a CHA based character.

Sense motive is not Necessary. Perception is very nice. Perhaps Alternate each level which you will be using...but you as the paladin are not the scout so a insane Perception skill is not nessiceray. You use it to help try and locate sneaky foes or to scan a room...but most the time pairing Detect Evil + Perception gets you much more out of the skill. He stealthed Thug...I can't see you...but I can see your aura and know your there.

[Cavall]

I've often found that sense motive and paladins works a lot better than you give it credit. You can often find those trying to deceive their way around detect evil with magic just by talking to them. It also allows a paladin to make better choices on how to progress. While this isn't really the topic at hand, I'd say it's vastly more valuable than something you need a trait to make a class skill in, making them pretty close to the same totals anyways but with sense motive likely more achievable in lower levels.

I digress though, I did concede if you had a spare point it's a good buy in. I just think not as crucial as painted.