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Leave if you are not having fun.... it really is that simple.
No game is better than no fun gaming.
It's not the GM's job to resolve a personal beef between you and the other player. It's your job to do so. His job is to help all the players create a story. You need to confront the guy and see what the problem is and how to resolve it. If he isn't willing to work on resolution and his behavior is so objectionable, you need to weigh the pro of playing in the game against the con of putting up with his shnitzle.
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Only you can answer that question. Those are your options, but nobody can tell you which is better for you.
If you do decide to stay in the game, I advise you to absolutely ignore anything he does. He plays a prank, you don't react. He says something mean, you and your character just ignore it. He hits your character with damage, just note the damage and go on without reacting. At least that way you will deny him the satisfaction of seeing that he is bothering you, and possibly that cause him to stop, or at least reduce the harassment. I will warn you though that initially ignoring him is likely to make him try harder, rather than give up, so you would want to be prepared for that.
If you want to try for expert level, don't just ignore him but actually go out of your way to be nice, both personally and in character. This will probably only work (and by work I mean make you feel good regardless of how he responds) if you can find the strength to actually truly forgive him for his behavior and recognize that for him to act that way he must be in a whole lot of pain. Most people, myself included, can't usually manage that level of compassion, and if you can't just go for the ignore rather than trying to be kind.
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I would just tell the person flat out - "Look, you're driving me crazy. If you don't cut it out, I'm just going to leave the group. Not out of spite. I just can't take it anymore. Please stop." If he doesn't stop, leave the group, and wait patiently for them to begin a new game. That's all you can do.
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It's not the GM's job to resolve a personal beef between you and the other player. It's your job to do so. His job is to help all the players create a story. You need to confront the guy and see what the problem is and how to resolve it. If he isn't willing to work on resolution and his behavior is so objectionable, you need to weigh the pro of playing in the game against the con of putting up with his shnitzle.
I disagree with this. The GM should absolutely use their authority as a GM to enforce certain behaviors and manners, with the penalty being expulsion from a game if they won't comply. This is especially true if, as is often the case, the GM is also the host of the physical gathering.
Ideally the other players should step in when one player is making the game unenjoyable for another as well, but it is definitely the GMs responsibility to do so.
Unfortunately for the OP though, you can't make someone live up to their responsibilities.
Talking with someone you are having a conflict with is a good idea, but the OP's 'hates my guts' opening seems to make it clear that he doesn't believe that is a viable option in this case.
Option A (Not recommended): PVP. Kill his character, then he makes a new one, and kills you, and then you make a new one and kill his, ad nauseam until one of you is removed from the table for destroying the campaign.
Option B: Talk to the player, ask him to stop being a f~$%wit.
Option C: Leave until the campaign ends and join the next one. Assure your DM you just can no longer play with that individual and it has ceased being fun to play in games with him but you'd love to join the next one provided they are not in it.
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My recommendation is to have a talk with him, in front of the whole group, before the game starts.
As cathartic as it may be, resist the urge to call him an immature jerk-ass or other such (well-deserved) titles. Instead, state plainly that he is ruining your fun, and ask why does he have such a vendetta against you. It is disrupting the game, and making it unenjoyable for you.
If he tries to pull the "I'm just roleplaying my character" bullcrap, immediately shut that down. Say how strange it is that every character he plays is a teamkilling jerk that focuses on you, and why would he hang out and risk his life alongside a person he hates otherwise?
Now, it's very unlikely that this will actually stop him, but if he mans up to it, good. The real purpose of doing this in front of the group is not so much for him, but for the other players.
The ideal situation is where the other players, emboldened by your open discussion and lack of insults, call him out on his actions. Hopefully the player either smartens up seeing that nobody likes him, or gets intimidated out of the group if he sees that nobody is going to put up with his shit anymore.
If they just keep quiet and let it happen, and the player doesn't change, this unfortunately puts you back at square one.
If, however, the players start calling you out for being disruptive and 'not having a sense of humour,' then leave. Clearly they don't care about you or your fun. Leave the game. Don't even come to the next one, because they are not your friends, or good players. Unfortunate, but better you learn this right away.
A bully wants attention. Don't give it to them. Do not respond.
They might get more demonstrative as Dave Justus mentioned but just let it go by. Do not respond, let them get bored. They are obviously not enjoying the game as they need to pick on you for entertainment. Once you stop being entertaining then there is no reason for them to be there. They may well drop the game.
However, they are also likely to simply switch targets so you may need to be ready to support the next player they choose to annoy. Once multiple players have 'enjoyed' the bullies attention the calculus of loosing one player vs. losing 2 or 3 becomes clear.
There's always pretending to, in character, enjoy the pranks and call out his "clumsiness" when he hits you with fireballs, saying it must've been so hard to get through learning how to cast spells like that. Make it fun for you and it won't be fun for him.
Just warn your (good)fellow players and DM first so they know what's going on.
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I'm currently in a game with a player who hates my guts and tries to do anything to annoy me for no reason. even to go as far as make a character who hates everything that isn't humanoid which mine isn't. He has been at it since the start and I've put up with it till now. Throwing fireballs with me in the radius, playing "pranks" on my character out of spite, ect. I went to the DM about it and he just shrugged his shoulders saying there's nothing he can do but to not to worry because he wont be invited to anymore games. I really want to stay in this game because its hard for me to find a D&D group these days that's able to sit in the same house to play but this player is killing it for me and the fact that the DM wont do anything about it is making it worse. Is it worth staying or should i just leave the game?
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the DM doing something here?
You could also punch him in the nose. I've found one good pop generally gets most people to be more courteous at the table.
JK. Though I'll admit I've reached the point with a player who seemed to target me where I considered just asking them if they wanted to step outside. But I left the gaming group before that happened.
I'm currently in a game with a player who hates my guts and tries to do anything to annoy me for no reason. even to go as far as make a character who hates everything that isn't humanoid which mine isn't. He has been at it since the start and I've put up with it till now. Throwing fireballs with me in the radius, playing "pranks" on my character out of spite, ect. I went to the DM about it and he just shrugged his shoulders saying there's nothing he can do but to not to worry because he wont be invited to anymore games. I really want to stay in this game because its hard for me to find a D&D group these days that's able to sit in the same house to play but this player is killing it for me and the fact that the DM wont do anything about it is making it worse. Is it worth staying or should i just leave the game?Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't the DM doing something here?
I took that to mean future campaigns, not that he won't be invited to continue the current one.
I agree that the GM should indeed be in charge of maintaining table harmony. I will go so far as to ban players that I know bring bad mojo to the game, It's only happened once, but I will do it. All it takes is one bad player to ruin an entire table.
That said, what steps can you as a player take to meet this other player half way? Have your character address his in-game. Have them talk out their differences in-character. Knowing that you hate each other, it might be something you can turn into playful banter between the two of you.
Another option would be to just make an entirely new character that is out of the crosshairs of this other player. This is only recommended if you have no other options than quitting the campaign and finding another group.
All in all, you should be able to talk things through like adults. If not, then you're just in a bad group and need to find another. Let them go and sign up for games on Roll20 or D20pro and you'll forget about that old group in no time.
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I think your GM has kind of fallen down on the job on this one. If someone's deliberately, repeatedly a jerk to someone else at the table, they should be gone. Unfortunately, you can't really force him to do anything about it if he doesn't want to. He does at least acknowledge there's a problem at some level since he said the guy wouldn't be invited to any more games, but my guess is he probably wants to avoid getting involved in conflict.
You say that the other player hates your guts, which makes me think that talking to him probably wouldn't be that productive. I'd try talking to the GM one more time, and make very clear that this player is making the game not fun for you and if nothing changes, you're going to have to leave the group. Maybe he'll realize it's serious and do something about it. If not...well, I'd just leave, personally. It's not really a fair solution, but at a certain point you have to decide what you're willing to put up with.
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Another option would be to just make an entirely new character that is out of the crosshairs of this other player. This is only recommended if you have no other options than quitting the campaign and finding another group.
This could work honestly. Yea, you'll have to abandon your concept, but it should work. If the problem player deliberately also suddenly wants a new character, then you basically got your proof he's trying to f&%! with you.
I agree with Trigger Loaded. Don't use any insults, and just tell him to stop. After seeing that although you are annoyed, you won't bend to his level and use name-calling.
I still believe, however, that the DM should maintain peace at the table.
The other player and the GM are both at fault here. The player's fault is obvious, but it is also the GM's responsibility to make sure everybody is having fun.
I recommend trying to handle this situation out of game. Before your next session, sit down with everybody and explain calmly and clearly what the issue is, and that it is ruining your fun in what is supposed to be a stress-free environment. These games are designed to give you an escape from the struggles of real life, not escalate them.
Failing that, Dave has given you excellent advice. Bullies get bored and frustrated when they get no response if they cannot physically threaten you. Just ignore pranks entirely, telling the GM you are ready to move on, and mark any friendly fire damage down silently with a strait face. No response means no satisfaction.
I went to the DM about it and he just shrugged his shoulders saying there's nothing he can do but to not to worry because he wont be invited to anymore games.
Given that the GM has said he's not being invited to any more games, I don't see the problem.
Are you asking in case this happens again?
Everyone has the right to say: "I'm not having fun with this!" Be it: situation; campaign; GM style; other player; what have you. The outcome of that can be something other than what you desire, but you are no more or less important than anyone else at the table.
Doing so as neutrally as possible is always best, but can be admittedly challenging. (I am not good at confrontation irl, which may be why I tend to play Barbarians and Chaotic types in game...)
My tuppence.
Personally i wont be accusing the other player of anything , since i find weird that someone hates your guts for no reason at all OP.
With that said , i would talk with the player himself , if he really hates your guts and you did nothing, then there should be a reason that if you find out , maybe you guys can resolve together, if you cant resolve it , then i do advise to leave the table until the next game starts , at which point in theory you will be invited and he wont.
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Throwing fireballs with me in the radius, playing "pranks" on my character out of spite, etc.
It's hard to know what to do without experiencing this idiot first hand, but I think I'd try these things, in order:
1. Next time it happens, stop the game in the middle of the action and tell him he's being an ass and to CUT IT THE F#CK OUT, SERIOUSLY! (This may backfire, as bullies tend to enjoy provoking a response, but it at least removes any possible response of "Hey, I didn't know it really bothered you.")
2. Ignore everything he does in-game. He fireballs you, don't make a note of the damage. He steals your favorite weapon, continue to use it in combat. It sounds like everything he's doing is against your character, so none of it takes effect unless you agree to it.
3. If the GM won't back you up on this, and insists that all the "pranks" and "careless" spell lobbing does affect your character, then quit the current game, and come back to the table for the next one, if the offending player is indeed not invited back.
Personally, I'd just leave the game and take a break. The OP mentioned that the GM isn't inviting the problem player to any future games, so if I were the OP, I'd bail on the game, letting the GM know why, and also letting him know I'm available when a new game starts without the problem player.
Then I'd just wait until the problem player drags the game down to the point where the GM starts a new campaign, and hop back on board.
I'm not sure what the OP wants the GM to do?
I'm not sure what the OP wants the GM to do?
Kick the problematic player out.
Looks like your GM is not brave enough to kick someone from a running campaign. He is on your side (since he promises you won't have to deal with him in future campaigns), but too nice to face the player directly. So I wouldn't expect any active support from there.
Try to ally with the fellow players, as Trigger Loaded suggested. Bullys are aggressive but cowards - they don't like to face a strong opponent or to justify their deeds in public. Maybe you will learn it was just a misunderstanding, maybe he is simply brain damaged - you can only find out with a confrontation.
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This comes up a lot, primarily because some people just don't mesh well.
I quite liked the idea above of disregarding the results of his friendly-fire and pranks. With DM approval, it's a quiet, passive solution, if less-than-satisfying. Dunno. Might work.
On the other hand, if out-of-game confrontation's off the table, you can basically finish it in-game. There's a risk here though. See, YOU might be the gear that doesn't fit the machine. Anyway, imagine a group of four people working on a task and one literally endangers another. Untrustworthy. Get his PC kicked out of the party. If the next one mysteriously has grudge-hatred for yours (again), get that one kicked out. Rinse, repeat. When every session involves him sitting at the table rolling up his next PC due to getting kicked out, he'll either stop the anti-party stuff, or quit the game. You need the backing of the group AND the DM here. You may learn they don't like you, which is useful too.
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I'm currently in a game with a player who hates my guts and tries to do anything to annoy me for no reason. even to go as far as make a character who hates everything that isn't humanoid which mine isn't. He has been at it since the start and I've put up with it till now. Throwing fireballs with me in the radius, playing "pranks" on my character out of spite, ect. I went to the DM about it and he just shrugged his shoulders saying there's nothing he can do but to not to worry because he wont be invited to anymore games. I really want to stay in this game because its hard for me to find a D&D group these days that's able to sit in the same house to play but this player is killing it for me and the fact that the DM wont do anything about it is making it worse. Is it worth staying or should i just leave the game?
Problem players happen, and for a number of reasons, and it is usually a pain in the neck - the extent of which depends on the group social dynamic.
As a GM, having to kick someone from a group you've invited is a decidedly unpleasant experience that most will try to avoid - it is easier for most people to grin, bear it and then simply never invite them again, out of a desire to not have to tell someone who is likely either a friend or a friend-of-a-friend that they're an irredeemable menace and you want them to go away and not come back.
Add to that, there is the inherent trend to for players to see the GM as the ultimate authority and turn to the GM with their complaints, rather than the other party ("You're the GM! You need to fix this!")... for exactly the same reason: They don't want to have the confrontation themselves.
I've been a few troubled groups and seen it (mis)handled a few times, and have conjured up a few guidelines I try to follow from the experiences:
1) When establishing a new group composition, or inviting in a new player, do not do so in a long campaign. Run a small module or 'side game' that lasts a couple of sessions to do a shake-down run of the group, then decide whether you want to GM for a long term campaign. Adding even one player changes the 'mix' so to speak, and can turn a recipe for fun into an exercise in frustration. Try before you buy.
- Example: I invited a mixture of people I'd been friends with for years and gamed with intermittently into a campaign intended to run from 2nd to 20th level. The problem being: Although these people all got along away from the table, their gaming styles and expectations were largely anathema to one another. Thirteen sessions of frustration trying to find a may to make it work, I pulled the plug - the first and only time I've ever done so - because it simply couldn't be fun for all involved.
2) Talk to the GM about your grievances. Ask them whether they want to handle it, if so, let them try. If not, or they aren't making progress, talk to the offending party. They're likely a friend or a friend-of-a-friend, but in either case, it needs to end.
- Example: My wife and I played in a game with someone we had known and gamed with for years, and while they (like most people) had a couple annoying gaming habits, in this game their diva-esque behavior escalated from 'occasionally annoying' to 'outright insufferable'. No one at the table was enjoying it, but neither the GM nor other players (it was a big group) wanted to say anything (that group has an odd dynamic). In the end my wife lost her patience with their breaking of the rules for their benefit (and the GM letting it slide) and called them on at it the table, then after the game emailed them with how people were feeling, even if no one else was saying anything. We arranged for them to come over to our place and talk outside of the game - it wasn't exactly fun, but it improved their behavior both in that game and others we were playing with him where he had started to show similar trends - and those games were fun again. I only wish we did it a LOT earlier.
3) Don't let it escalate. This one is fairly obvious, but occurs surprisingly often: Irritating behavior at the table doesn't imply some kind of deep and boundless antagonism towards you or another. Tabletop games mean spending a lot of time with a specific social group, and as the adage goes, "familiarity breeds contempt", but it's important not to let little issues get blown out of proportion. Identifying and discussing irritating behavior early helps nip this in the bud. Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. Ever.
- Example: We had a player who checked their phone or played scrabble on it at the table whenever it wasn't their turn or they weren't talking, or interrupted roleplay to anecdote - it was general inattention coupled with lack of thought before opening their mouth. Left unchecked, it would have driven us all insane, but frequent gentle reminders to "save it for after the scene" helped moderate the behavior and keep the game fun for all (including them).
Looks like your GM is not brave enough to kick someone from a running campaign. He is on your side (since he promises you won't have to deal with him in future campaigns), but too nice to face the player directly. So I wouldn't expect any active support from there.
In short: Yes, but it's usually not 100% the GM's responsibility to manage their player's behavior at the table, they're the 'host' and the players have a responsibility to manage their own behavior; if someone isn't, and the GM is standing off, you can just talk to them.
That said, I've been in a game where the GM invited a friend of theirs who turned out to be... well... horrible to have at the table. Mostly to the GM, due to the player constantly interrupting, ignoring and criticizing them. We talked with the GM about it, but they were adamant that "they would handle it"... and their chosen method was to grin, bear it and wait until the player (eventually) quit. From the experience I will say: Terrible solution. Don't do it.
In summary:
- Talk to them, and explain why it bothers you, why the player is lessening the fun for others, and why their behavior makes people less inclined to play with them in the future. Make them understand that there are negative consequences (not invited to games) for their poor behavior.
- If that fails, talk to the GM. Give him a timeframe to wrap up the game before you walk. If the GM is trying to avoid the confrontation because 'just ignoring it' is working, make it stop working.
- If within the deadline the problem isn't fixed. Walk. Not gaming is far, far preferable to a toxic game. Odds are, the same GM will be running a different game in the very near future, and one without the problem player.
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In my experience, no one does anything for "no reason"; they may do something for no good reason, certainly. I have made it something of a hobby to study the various people that I game with, and I have often found that someone's negative traits, which they spend most of their time hiding when dealing with people in real life, will often come out at the table, when there is the excuse of "playing a character" to hide behind.
I have played with the depressed gamer, whose competitive, glory-hounding, I-have-to-win attitude was a veneer that covered a severe inferiority complex and poor self-image. They used gaming as a crutch. They only ever played masterminds or brutes, trying to bolster their own sense of self-worth by controlling the game, either by being the party leader, by undermining the party leader to make themselves look more competent, or by threatening to brutalize anyone who didn't follow them. They would quote rules and then distract the GM so that no one actually looked up whether the problem player's interpretation of the rules was correct. Woe betide anyone who noticed and called this player on the fact that they also lied about their dice rolls...
I have played with the grudge-keeper, who was never happy. They complained that there wasn't enough role-play when combat was going on, complained that there wasn't enough combat when role-play was happening (and often asked 'are you guys done?' two minutes into a scene between the GM and a couple of PCs). Any time something went badly for their characters, they took it personally and blamed the other players or the GM for their own dice rolls. And then criticized other peoples' bad rolls, suggesting that it meant they actually sucked at whatever they were trying to do (even if their bonus was actually enormous and the dice roll didn't matter that much).
And I have played with the immature anti-authoritarian, whose deeply held belief that everyone in power was a dick translated in gaming to being aggressively antagonistic toward NPCs that had any sort of power over them, and PCs who attempted to give their character instructions. The "No one tells me what to do!" attitude coupled with extreme pettiness and a tendency to interrupt any scene to have their character shout 'defiant' (and crude) insults at someone, regardless of what was going on. It was very hard, and very tiring, to game around, and ultimately disruptive to any scene in which they were a part.
All three of these people suffered from a lack of self-worth, along with other rather negative traits, which you didn't really see when talking to them away from the table. They all seemed like quite rational, even friendly people – until you gamed with them for a while. Unfortunately, they also shared another trait: a refusal to admit that there was a problem.
If the other players or the GM know their problem players outside of gaming (or worse: are old friends), then it can be very difficult for them to reconcile the seemingly different personalities. Most people will try to explain it as "it's just the character", even if problem players act the same way every time regardless of character.
Again, gamers are rarely a$$hats for no reason. The reasons might be that they are overcompensating for a low sense of self-worth, or the reasons may be something petty, but there will be a reason – and figuring out the reason goes a long way toward curbing the behavior. Their actions are feeding something (poor self-image, narcissistic power trips, a misguided vendetta for something that no one else actually thought was an issue...). I am not suggesting you need to have sympathy for the person who is making your gaming experience into a living hell. Understanding isn't agreement, and having a reason doesn't mean they have an excuse.
Confronting someone about their behavior isn't disruptive or 'being a dick', as long as you keep it civil. If they are ruining your fun, and even the GM admits that they are a problem, then talking to them about it may help you find out what is at the core of their behavior.
I'm not sure what the OP wants the GM to do?Kick the problematic player out.
Or, at the very least, give him a significant dressing-down.
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We pre-kicked a player out of a game once. We told him a campaign would start in two months but that he could try gaming with us for a few one shots to feel out the gang. After two one shots we couldn't bear the dude who a) didn't know the rules and b) argued about rules he seemingly imagined our misinterpreted. I told him that this wasn't my idea of fun and he wasn't invited to the campaign we started.
Bottom line: do not invite new players unless you run them through a one shot event, whatever that may be.
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Have you looked into Roll20? It is a great way to find games online. Unfortunately, it seems that finding a new group sounds like your best option.
Have you looked into Roll20? It is a great way to find games online. Unfortunately, it seems that finding a new group sounds like your best option.
That is what I was about to recommend.
+2
You said you now live with the DM, and yet this guy used to live with the DM and got kicked out. Another reason for difficulty. Even if you leave the group then you are still going to be confronted with this stuff. Personally I suggest an email between game. You don't have to give him your mobile number after all, and if he gets difficult you can always block emails.
Banning people from the table is the 'nuclear option' and it rarely goes well. As a DM I wouldnt do it unless I was confident it was what the vast majority of players wanted and even then if it was an old friend it would probably break the group. Our current group started as just such a splinter and has now been playing for 12+ years together. Thats just life sometimes.