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Here's the ol' build I used for my Fighter, up to level 12, but updated for Weapon Master's Handbook. How does it look?
Race: Human
Alt Racials: Dual Talent (because feats are not too important for fighters)
Traits: Defender of the Society, Seeker
Starting Attributes: S16+2 D15+2 C14 I10 W12 CH7
Pips: +1 DEX, rest to STR
Archetype: Dawnflower Dervish
Feats up to 12th:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Shield Bash
2. Improved Initiative
3. Iron Will
4. Power Attack
5. Advanced Weapon Training > Versatile Training > Close (Stealth, Sense Motive)
6. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
7. Cut from the Air
8. Combat Reflexes
9. Spellcut, Advanced Weapon Training > Armed Bravery
10. Shield Slam
11. Shield Mastery
12. Smash from the Air
Gear at 12th (108k gp)
Gloves of Dueling
Sash of the War Champion
Jingasa of the Fortunate Warrior
Boots of Speed
+3 Cestus
+3 bashing shield spiked steel Light Shield
+3 mithril Breastplate
+2 Belt of Physical Perfection
+2 Cloak of Resistance
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
+1 Ring of Protection
Attributes at 12th: S22 D20 C16 I10 W12 CH7
Skills: Perception (max), Stealth (max), Sense Motive (max), Climb, Ride, Swim (4 each)
Stats at 12th
Defensive: AC 31 // Fort +13 // Ref +11 // Will +13
Ofensive: Cestus +18/+13/+8 (1d4+20, 19-20/2x) + Light Shield +20/+15 (1d8+13, 20/2x)
Plus: can cut down ranged attacks and spells, 5 AoO per round, and got a pounce.
Thoughts?
EXTRA: Feats from 13th to 20th:
13. Weapon Focus, Advanced Weapon Training > Weapon Specialization
14. Improved Critical
15. Advanced Weapon Training > Focused Weapon
16. Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
17. Double Slice, Advanced Weapon Training > Fighter's Reflexes
18. Two-Weapon Rend
19. Bashing Finish
20. Greater Weapon Focus
How do you pick advanced weapon training at 5th?
there's a feat you can take a 5, 10, 15, 20 that lets you get an advanced weapon training.
There's a feat you can take to get AWT 1/5 levels, AND you can swap out your later Weapon Trainings for AWT feats.
So, a standard fighter can pick up an AWT feat at levels 5,9, and 10 for PFS. The remainder feats are at 13, 15, 17, and 20.
That is, unless you are a Weapon Master Archetype, then you can just use your Fighter Bonus feats for AWT. I suggest the poster take that into account if he wants to dual-wield the same weapon, instead of sword and board. Including retraining, you could potentially end up with 11 AWT feats, and seven of them before 10th level.
I thought Spellcut was AWT, and there's no level 10 AWT feat here? Typo?
Note that in real terms, IRon Will is better then Armed Bravery for ALL CASES until either level 10 OR You get Gloves of Dueling. Waiting that long to pick up a will save buffer is going to hurt.
==Aelryinth
Developer
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There's a feat you can take to get AWT 1/5 levels, AND you can swap out your later Weapon Trainings for AWT feats.
So, a standard fighter can pick up an AWT feat at levels 5,9, and 10 for PFS. The remainder feats are at 13, 15, 17, and 20.
That is, unless you are a Weapon Master Archetype, then you can just use your Fighter Bonus feats for AWT. I suggest the poster take that into account if he wants to dual-wield the same weapon, instead of sword and board. Including retraining, you could potentially end up with 11 AWT feats, and seven of them before 10th level.
I thought Spellcut was AWT, and there's no level 10 AWT feat here? Typo?
Note that in real terms, IRon Will is better then Armed Bravery for ALL CASES until either level 10 OR You get Gloves of Dueling. Waiting that long to pick up a will save buffer is going to hurt.
==Aelryinth
Spellcut is a Weapon Mastery feat, not an Advanced Weapon Training option. :)
Edit: Ninja'd by Imbicatus!
Note that you could get Spellcut/Cut from the Air/Smash from the Air through the Weapon Mastery option of Advanced Weapon Training :P
Note that in real terms, IRon Will is better then Armed Bravery for ALL CASES until either level 10 OR You get Gloves of Dueling. Waiting that long to pick up a will save buffer is going to hurt.
Armed Bravery is boosted by Sash of the War Champion, not Weapon Training.
Also, I pick up Iron Will at level 3.
Gah! The sash! The overpriced +1 buffer!...well, at least it has some use. Except since you don't gain the +1 of Armor Mastery, all you get is a +1 to Will saves while a weapon is in hand.
Ditch the Sash and increase your cloak to +3. It's basically the same price, but you get a blanket +1 to ALL saves. (4k for sash vs 5k to improve cloak)
Per the FaQ: Your Bashing on the shield does not stack with Shield Spikes or Focused Weapon. You can house rule as you like, but officially, no stacking. Given that you're paying 7k for effectively +1 damage (d4 vs d6), I'd leave it off, and use the 7k somewhere else. I think you could make the cestus adamantine, for instance. That gets you through all but Aligned DR.
was Weapon focus required for weapon mastery feats? Don't know, asking.
I'm not sure if the Pounce ability would eat the highest attack from both weapons or just from one of them. I'm pretty sure it's both, since Haste/Speed will add an additional attack from both (nicely cancelling out the penalty of the Pounce!)
Might want to make a note that FC bonus was used for hit points.(?)
You do need to specify which weapon for Weapon focus/spec/imp crit, even if it ends up applying to the entire Close Group...and For Focused Weapon AWT also, of course.
You're wasting the AWT Weapon Specialization. you need 5 feats to max it out at the time you take it, and you've got one - Weapon Focus. You never take the rest of the spec chain to actually make use of this, so not sure why it's a choice. Just to get imp crit on both cestus and shield? You can just buy Keen on both, you know.
Instead, you probably should take Weapon Sacrifice for defense, since you can direct the damage to your high hit point shield, which you can harden and make Impervious and use Rune of whatever to double the hit points on.
But, your call.
==Aelryinth
was Weapon focus required for weapon mastery feats? Don't know, asking.
Nope, just weapon training.
You're wasting the AWT Weapon Specialization. you need 5 feats to max it out at the time you take it, and you've got one - Weapon Focus. You never take the rest of the spec chain to actually make use of this, so not sure why it's a choice. Just to get imp crit on both cestus and shield? You can just buy Keen on both, you know.
I was thinking that Weapon Specialization would constantly update as your weapon training goes up.
was Weapon focus required for weapon mastery feats? Don't know, asking.Nope, just weapon training.
You're wasting the AWT Weapon Specialization. you need 5 feats to max it out at the time you take it, and you've got one - Weapon Focus. You never take the rest of the spec chain to actually make use of this, so not sure why it's a choice. Just to get imp crit on both cestus and shield? You can just buy Keen on both, you know.I was thinking that Weapon Specialization would constantly update as your weapon training goes up.
Oh, I agree that the next level when you get Improved Critical (whatever close weapon) it applies to the whole group.
What I meant was...at that time your Weapon Training is effectively +5, you could assign 5 feats to the whole group, and instead you only ever get 2. Kind of a waste of the power of the feat.
If you were taking the whole spec chain now or later, that would be different!
==Aelryinth
FUN FAXXX:
If I didn't take the Dawnflower Dervish archetype, I could be using a +3 Full Plate for a total of +3 AC.
KIIIIIND of underwhelming, buuuut, it does open up the possibility of a more defensive build with Shield Focus and some other +AC boost for a magical 37 AC, which makes it really hard for enemies to hit you.
Using the money saved from not needing to buy a mithral BP to repurchase the Sash of the War Champion to keep your full Dex bonus, sure...so, your Will save could go up another +1, also. :o
==Aelryinth
Gear at 12th (108k gp)
Gloves of Dueling
Jingasa of the Fortunate Warrior
Boots of Speed
+3 Adamantine Cestus
+3 spiked adamantine Light Shield (Hardened +6 for H:32, HP:86 (Durability))
+3 mithril Breastplate
+2 Belt of Physical Perfection
+3 Cloak of Resistance
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor
+1 Ring of Protection
Attributes at 12th: S22 D20 C16 I10 W12 CH7
Skills: Perception (max), Stealth (max), Sense Motive (max), Climb, Ride, Swim (4 each)
Stats at 12th
Defensive: AC 31 // Fort +14 // Ref +12 // Will +13
Offensive: Cestus +18/+13/+8 (1d4+20, 19-20/2x) + Light Shield +20/+15 (1d8+13, 20/2x)
-------------------
Just tweaking the gear :) saves are slightly better, bypass DR/Adamantine with both weapons.
==Aelryinth
Looks pretty good! I also forgot to add the AC from Defender of Society!
I really like this build, my only concern is not tools to fight off invisible creatures and heavy reliance on items.
It's a fighter build. you'll always be reliant on items.
As for invisible creatures, that's a consumables thing. Things like ghost salt and dust of appearence and oil of bless weapon aren't covered above.
Your biggest problem is actually lack of a ranged attack. Against a flyer, you are useless unless someone grants you flying, or you've a potion tucked away. You may want winged boots instead of boots of speed.
==Aelryinth
Celestial armor covers flight plus good armor class + dex. And you can sleep in it.
I am a huge fan of the cloak of displacement.
Celestial armor would be fine, except its 22k, and his mithril BP is 13k. So we'd have to come up with 9k from somewhere.
It would also drop his AC by 3. (it's considered light armor and defender of the society wouldn't work with it)..although getting Flight might be worth it. He'd have to give up adamantine on both his weapons, I guess, and then downgrade his cloak.
I'd probably save it for his next cash infusion and 'upgrade' to the Celestial Armor. Better yet is if he could give his Mithril BP the Celestial affix, getting the Dex bonus and flight magic locked into it (much like celestial plate armor).
==Aelryinth
Note that in real terms, IRon Will is better then Armed Bravery for ALL CASES until either level 10 OR You get Gloves of Dueling. Waiting that long to pick up a will save buffer is going to hurt.
Could you elaborate? I'm seeing the +2 from Bravery as the equal of Iron Will at level 6, and only going up from there. What are you counting that I'm not?
Thanks.
I think he mistook the progression with weapon training's, which is understandable, considering Armed Bravery is the only option based on Bravery progression.
Celestial Plate?
Considered medium armor, max DEX 6, and has the stats of full plate plus flight.
Another option would be cutting the shield angle for throwing stuff...
Replace Shield Bash, Shield Slam, Shield Mastery and Improved Initiative for Quick Draw, Ricochet Shot, Distance Thrower and Rapid Shot.
How would a build like this be modified with the Armor Master's Handbook? Seems like that new Shield Gauntlet Master would fit in well.
Have you considered outslug style?
Bonuses on close weapons when you mvoe 5'. Ability to move 10' with your 5' step. Pentalty free lunge. Whats not to love?
Have you considered outslug style?
Bonuses on close weapons when you mvoe 5'. Ability to move 10' with your 5' step. Pentalty free lunge. Whats not to love?
Combat Expertise.
Combat Expertise.Have you considered outslug style?
Bonuses on close weapons when you mvoe 5'. Ability to move 10' with your 5' step. Pentalty free lunge. Whats not to love?
Dirty fighting.
I'm afraid dirty fighting doesn't apply. The feat would have to have one of the combat maneuver feats as a prerequisite.
It funny how much I hear dirty fighting is the fix for combat expertise while they don't remember it's limited so much.
I'm afraid dirty fighting doesn't apply. The feat would have to have one of the combat maneuver feats as a prerequisite.
hmm....
it still applies, but in a far more stupid way.
It can be a feat tax for your feat tax so it doesn't have a stat tax. IE- it still counts as 13 INT.
only for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites of the various improved combat maneuver feats, as well as feats that require those improved combat maneuver feats as prerequisites.
If it's not for this than you still need combat expertise.