I was curious about building an adequate Axe Thrower for PFS play. It's more of a concept character, and does not need to be the ultimate damage dealer.
I am considering taking a level of Alchemist for the Throw Anything feat, plus all the other goodies it gives. But ordinarily I would be throwing axes.
I have several questions:
Do Throwing Axes carry the same "penalty" as arrows/bolts when they are unleashed that they are often destroyed/lost? That could get somewhat expensive.
Is there a specific class archetype or prestige class that favors a ranged thrower?
Any help and tips is welcome! Thanks!
There was a Thrower Thread not so long ago! I bet you could get plenty of help from reading this!
Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), darts (for blowguns), or sling bullets (for slings and halfling sling staves). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions). Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost. Although they are thrown weapons, shuriken are treated as ammunition for the purposes of drawing them, crafting masterwork or otherwise special versions of them, and what happens to them after they are thrown.
And the whole "destroyed on impact" rule is about ammunition, not weapons. (Shurikens are an exception, as mentioned)
do two-weapon fighter build, use throwing axes, get Quickdraw, buy a Blinkback belt.
one of my players built this up, at 16th level we were seeing insane amounts of damage.
Far Strike Monk means I will need to pick up the Ranged Tactics book, as well as the Weapon Masters Handbook.
I saw the Ricochet Toss feat explained in a prior thread, but what does Startoss Style do?
I will assume I can roll as a Far Strike Monk and take the feats/styles from Weapon Masters Handbook?
I need to look up the Blinkback Belt to see if its worth picking up over a DEX/STR belt. Also, is there an item similar to Endless Quiver (i think thats what its called) where I can store Javelins and Axes in for easy access with the Quick Draw feat? I'm still trying to read up on the mechanics of it all...but I like the flavor of this build possibility.
I have never played a Monk, can they be useful in other areas? Perhaps social skills? Any debuffs they can apply with ranged attacks?
Belt, Blinkback
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th
Slot belt; Price 5,000 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
DESCRIPTION
A set of clips is attached to this segmented belt constructed of metallic links.
Up to two one-handed melee weapons or up to four light melee weapons can be hung from the belt in straps or sheaths. When the wearer draws a weapon attached to this belt and throws it before the end of her next turn, the weapon teleports back to its strap or sheath immediately after the attack is resolved.
This was the best solution we could find. with this, you spend your money on 2 throwing axes that you pimp out with bonuses, element damage etc.
yes, you lose out on a STR/DEX belt, but you don't have to spend a fortune on magic weapons so you have enough to make it through a combat
Ricochet Toss is the main feat to making throwing builds really nice.
Startoss Style gives you +2 damage per feat you have in the style-chain. It also allows you to make multiple attacks as a standard action at your highest attack bonus with the caveat that you must attack different targets and each target must be within ranged of each other. It gives martials an area of effect option which is pretty cool.
Fighter so good
Race:
Dual Talent Human (for double +2)
Traits:
Weapon Training (Ulfen, +1 to thrown axes) or Wasteland Hunter (Kellid, can ignore range penalty for first two range increments)
+
Indomitable Faith (+1 Will) or Defender of the Society (+1 AC)
Attributes:
STR 14+2 DEX 15+2 CON 14 INT 12 WIS 14 CHA 7
Feats:
1. PBS, Quick Draw
2. Two-Weapon Fighting
3. Precise Shot
4. Rapid Shot
5. Advanced Weapon Training - Versatile Training (Thrown Weapons) This is from Weapon Master's Handbook, wait for it to be legal
6. Improved TWF
7. Ricochet Toss This is from Weapon Master's Handbook, wait for it to be legal
8. Weapon Focus
9. Startoss Style
10. Advanced Weapon Training - Focus Weapon This is from Weapon Master's Handbook, wait for it to be legal
11. Startoss Comet
12. Startoss Shower
I'm gonna have to disagree with the Startoss feat tree. very seldom do I want to split my attacks among multiple targets. I am sure there are better feats that can be used in those slots.
I'm gonna have to disagree with the Startoss feat tree. very seldom do I want to split my attacks among multiple targets. I am sure there are better feats that can be used in those slots.
Startoss feat tree gives a passive +6 to damage all the time. If you ever do need to split your damage, that's gravy.
Exactly. Plus the thing that's nice about Startoss feats is that its a Standard action, so you can still move and get a full attack if the stars align. As opposed to moving and then, what, attacking once? Toss distance on your weapon and I promise you that most battlefields will not have enemies further away from each other than the range on your weapon.
Startoss replaces Deadly Aim, or supplements it if you still want that, and you do not take any negatives to your attack.
I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
So you are saying that
+2 damage
is better than
+2 damage AND AOE abilities
?
Are you really saying that A + B is greater than A, where A and B are both positive numbers?
Because you are breaking math here.
I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
also the range of these things aren't always so great like a bow. So you might need to move more.
Weapon Specialization is great and all, but what if you don't want to play a fighter? Perhaps you're doing Far Strike Monk, or a Ranger, or a Barbarian, or... etc. Yes, being able to full attack a single opponent is usually the better way to go. HOWEVER, having a back up plan is always a good thing. If you have smart enemies, they will move to engage the ranged guy who is sitting back and picking them off at a distance. Or perhaps they now move into some sort of cover. Or perhaps the group of mooks suddenly rushes you... now you whack three of the low HP minions with a decent amount of damage to each of them, possibly taking a few out, and then moving back away from them.
I've never been a huge fan of open plain "ambush" encounters. There are very few monsters that don't have enough intelligence to say "Hmmm... we could use these trees over here for cover and concealment to ambush this ridiculously armed group of tasty-looking human creatures."
OK, I think I am sold on the Far Strike Monk; but should I choose the original version or unchained?
Also, is there a specific race that offers competitive advantages? I am leaning towards Half-Orc...because, Half-Orc.
OK, I think I am sold on the Far Strike Monk; but should I choose the original version or unchained?
Also, is there a specific race that offers competitive advantages? I am leaning towards Half-Orc...because, Half-Orc.
Unfortunately you cannot use any archetypes with Unchained monk, so it will have to be the standard monk, which is not bad at all. Half-orc is a good choice, but human is also a great choice for the extra feat. At first level a human Far Strike monk can have 4 feats... You can fill in all the standard prereqs like Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, etc.
unchained can't be a Far Strike Monk.
You couldn't use axes in a flurry with unchained monk, so that could be a problem. But the unchained monk is proficient in deer horn knives, which are better thrown weapons anyway.
Far Strike monk gives proficiency with all thrown weapons and changes flurry. Their flurry can only be made with thrown weapons.
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You couldn't use axes in a flurry with unchained monk, so that could be a problem. But the unchained monk is proficient in deer horn knives, which are better thrown weapons anyway.Far Strike monk gives proficiency with all thrown weapons and changes flurry. Their flurry can only be made with thrown weapons.
I'm aware, but you can't be an unchained Far Strike monk.
Weapon Specialization is great and all, but what if you don't want to play a fighter? Perhaps you're doing Far Strike Monk, or a Ranger, or a Barbarian, or... etc. Yes, being able to full attack a single opponent is usually the better way to go. HOWEVER, having a back up plan is always a good thing. If you have smart enemies, they will move to engage the ranged guy who is sitting back and picking them off at a distance. Or perhaps they now move into some sort of cover. Or perhaps the group of mooks suddenly rushes you... now you whack three of the low HP minions with a decent amount of damage to each of them, possibly taking a few out, and then moving back away from them.
I've never been a huge fan of open plain "ambush" encounters. There are very few monsters that don't have enough intelligence to say "Hmmm... we could use these trees over here for cover and concealment to ambush this ridiculously armed group of tasty-looking human creatures."
Well yeah all those other classes might have more benefit from it, but the original post was about a axe throwing fighter.....
I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
So you are saying that
+2 damage
is better than
+2 damage AND AOE abilities
?
Are you really saying that A + B is greater than A, where A and B are both positive numbers?
Because you are breaking math here.
No, I'm saying that +2 damage and able to attack 6 times is better that +2 damage and only being able to attack once. considering that with my players, after the first round, the only badguy left is the big baddie who's gonna take a lot to kill.
remember with the startoss chain, if there's only 1 badguy, you have to give up the bonus to damage to make more than 1 attack. I'd rather take a feat that gave me the same bonus on multiple attacks per round.
I was curious about building an adequate Axe Thrower for PFS play. It's more of a concept character, and does not need to be the ultimate damage dealer.
I am considering taking a level of Alchemist for the Throw Anything feat, plus all the other goodies it gives. But ordinarily I would be throwing axes.
I have several questions:
Do Throwing Axes carry the same "penalty" as arrows/bolts when they are unleashed that they are often destroyed/lost? That could get somewhat expensive.
Is there a specific class archetype or prestige class that favors a ranged thrower?
Any help and tips is welcome! Thanks!
2 levels of Grenadier alchemist would allow you to apply an alchemical infusion if you were to go that route.
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I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
So you are saying that
+2 damage
is better than
+2 damage AND AOE abilities
?
Are you really saying that A + B is greater than A, where A and B are both positive numbers?
Because you are breaking math here.
Weapon Specialization is +2 to damage, or +4 with greater. Startoss Style is +2 damage, or +4 with an extra feat, or +6 with two. It also allows unique abilities that cannot be done otherwise.
It does have a downside in that it locks out TWF, but it still allows bucklers so you'll have higher AC.
There is also nothing stopping you from taking both.
ok, after re-reading, the fact that all your attacks are at your full attack bonus is pretty nice, which is great if there is more than one badguy.
and you do get the +6 to damage still if there is only one badguy, but you drop down to your normal to hit rolls.
I'll have to do some more consideration to see if I think other feats are still better.
thanks for calling me on it and making me look into it more.
I still think something like weapon specialization is a better choice. with a range weapon, I seldom want or need to move, and being able to make my full round of attacks against a single opponent is more critical.
So you are saying that
+2 damage
is better than
+2 damage AND AOE abilities
?
Are you really saying that A + B is greater than A, where A and B are both positive numbers?
Because you are breaking math here.
Weapon Specialization is +2 to damage, or +4 with greater. Startoss Style is +2 damage, or +4 with an extra feat, or +6 with two. It also allows unique abilities that cannot be done otherwise.
It does have a downside in that it locks out TWF, but it still allows bucklers so you'll have higher AC.
There is also nothing stopping you from taking both.
If you have Quick Draw, there is nothing stopping you from using TWF + Startoss except the shear number of feats.
You cannot use this ability if you are carrying a weapon or a shield in your off hand (except for a buckler).
"I have nothing in my offhand while I make my mainhand attack. Now I quickdraw my offhand attack and throw."
You might not get the damage bonus on the offhand attack (I dunno, are you carrying an item that you've thrown?), but there's no impact on the mainhand.
The real question, though, is if you're going to fit in Sliding Axe Throw.
Theres another book I need to buy...Dwarves of Golarian.
Sliding axe throw is sweet but remember that tripping foes gives them +4 to AC versus thrown weapon attacks.
Edit: Something just occured to me. Nothing about the ilsurian archer actually requires you to use it with a bow so it would actually make for a pretty sweet startoss build.
What is the ilsurian archer?
A new Archetype for Rangers in the Weapon master handbook. here it is under a different name.
just out of curiosity how does a blinkback belt work and do you need to select Quick Draw as a feat for this build? If so then why?
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just out of curiosity how does a blinkback belt work and do you need to select Quick Draw as a feat for this build? If so then why?
This is an old thread, but it does what it says:
Up to two one-handed melee weapons or up to four light melee weapons can be hung from the belt in straps or sheaths. When the wearer draws a weapon attached to this belt and throws it before the end of her next turn, the weapon teleports back to its strap or sheath immediately after the attack is resolved.And you need quick draw to throw more then one weapon as drawing a weapon is a move action.
You also have to remember to don't carry a weapon in you off hand or startoss style won't be active.
many thanks