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Ask the Beholder.
I take the position of players can decide how 'hot' their character is, but charisma dictates how they act on that, like if they have any fashion sense or bother to look good. With reasonable exceptions of course.
Someone with Charisma 8 might be very beautiful but very often end up the used rather than the one who uses.
The way my groups treat it is "Appearance" is the mean of Charisma, Constitution, Strength and Dexterity, where you determine the main "appeal" of the character based on which number contributes the most.
For example, a character with 18 Strength, 12 Dex, 16 Con and 10 Cha will have an appearance score determined by (18+12+16+10)/4 = 14 Appearance, which means they're fairly attractive, and since their appearance is dominated by Strength and Constitution the DM can determine the thing that people would be attracted/impressed by most is the character's firm musculature and healthy appearance.
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Whenever someone asks I explain it like this. If they're mesmerized by your voice, it's Charisma. If they're mesmerized by your butt, it's Constitution. Roll diplomacy and add Con or Dex for attraction purposes but only if the recipient is into the kind of creature you are. Same goes for the Heal skill for sexual purposes. Depending on the circumstance I'll want you to roll for anal circumference.
If we're playing that kind of game then I do have a copy of the Book of Erotic Fantasy to solve it or they can just shut up and stab that goblin.
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anal circumference
A classic.
This seems like a good system, though I would probably do all stats with Charisma counted twice, since some people might be attracted to smarts or religious fervor, but any of those things could become unattractive if you're a jerk about it.The way my groups treat it is "Appearance" is the mean of Charisma, Constitution, Strength and Dexterity, where you determine the main "appeal" of the character based on which number contributes the most.
For example, a character with 18 Strength, 12 Dex, 16 Con and 10 Cha will have an appearance score determined by (18+12+16+10)/4 = 14 Appearance, which means they're fairly attractive, and since their appearance is dominated by Strength and Constitution the DM can determine the thing that people would be attracted/impressed by most is the character's firm musculature and healthy appearance.
Way I see it, the Appearance score just plays into your raw physical impressiveness or beauty, Charisma plays a part in that (hence it being added) but you don't need to add it twice since it's not more important than anything else.
You can be beautiful and still be a jerk, Appearance attracts people to the character but Charisma (rather, skills that use Charisma) is what makes them stay.
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Beauty / physical attractiveness is definitely part of charisma, but it's not a simple relationship, as evidenced by hags (high cha, not beautiful). I like the interpretation that charisma amplifies the way your physical features are perceived. A high cha person with pleasant features is seen as more beautiful, whereas a high cha person with unpleasant features is seen as compellingly monstrous.
Most humanoids will probably not end up on the monstrous side of the scale, so it's probably safe to say that higher-charisma PCs will generally be more beautiful than lower-Cha PCs. But since personality, magnetism, and leadership are also factors it's not a perfect correlation. Throwing in an extra random element or a contribution from physical stats makes sense if you care. Our group usually just decides how we want to describe our characters.
You can however say definitely that it is NOT CON, which is just about health.
There's a popular scientific hypothesis that many aspects of beauty (such as "good" skin or hair or waist-to-hip ratio) are associated with good health and from an evolutionary POV help us pick healthy mates.
This seems like a good system, though I would probably do all stats with Charisma counted twice, since some people might be attracted to smarts or religious fervor, but any of those things could become unattractive if you're a jerk about it.
Attraction is a little more complicated than beauty.
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None/All of the above.
All six have aspects which play in to 'beauty'. None of them solely define it and their are aspects which none of them cover. For example, in our culture weight is a major determinant of 'beauty'... but can vary wildly independent of the six attributes.
Thus, treating any of the attributes as 'beauty' is incorrect IMO. It is a separate issue. Someone with a high Con might have a healthy look, but could still be ugly. Rotting corpse undead with high Cha aren't beautiful in my book. Et cetera.
Neither.
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Here is an example of why it's not just Charisma
Go to Picture
Keep in mind that "appearance" is as much performance as physical frame. You've all seen Princess Diaries, right?
Charisma is the stat most involved with physical appearance, the higher charisma is the more ugly or beautiful one is generally.
High charisma simply means you are memorable, but it is more than physical appearance to the extent you are fairly free to determine physical appearance disregarding charisma.
You could have a low charisma and be a handsome, but shallow individual with rather plain personality or you simply do not radiate confidence and trustworthiness.
you could have a high charisma and be rather plain in appearance, but you might have a certain bearing that inspires people, confidence, strength of character and a flair for the dramatic without being over the top.
You might be fairly repulsive, people notice you and can't help but feel sorry for you initially, but impressed by the strength of your personality and conviction, you are likely to inspire or terrify people but you are unlikely to leave them indifferent.
Formula from an ancient version of another (similar) game.
link
Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
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For undead creatures, Charisma is a measure of their unnatural "lifeforce."
RAW it's Charisma, anything else is a houserule.
As with any stat there is granularity. Same as if you want to play someone who is flexible but with no hand eye-co-ordination (two aspects of dexterity). You just have to decide how much of your stat supports each aspect. You can, to an extent, reflect that with skills/background rather than raw ability score.
Hags have a LOT of personality/leadership I guess.
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Dexterity. Specifically, of the tongue.
It's true. Just ask Kakyoin.
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Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.
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For undead creatures, Charisma is a measure of their unnatural "lifeforce."RAW it's Charisma, anything else is a houserule.
As with any stat there is granularity. Same as if you want to play someone who is flexible but with no hand eye-co-ordination (two aspects of dexterity). You just have to decide how much of your stat supports each aspect. You can, to an extent, reflect that with skills/background rather than raw ability score.
Hags have a LOT of personality/leadership I guess.
RAW says nothing about Beauty. Merely appearance. A Night Hag has plenty of appearance, but not a whole lot of beauty by most human standards. There is no RAW for Beauty. Probably because what qualifies as beauty varies wildly.
RAW. Please use responsibly.
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Oh man, I could really go for someone RAW....
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Well, keep in mind that: 1) There is no accounting for personal taste, and 2) Beauty means different things to different creatures. A high charisma Hag may very well be the Apex of hag beauty (like, the Catherine Zeta Jones of hags), but that physical appearance doesn't translate well to other species or creatures. You could just as easily say that a Half-Orc with high charisma is attractive, but that goes by half-orc standards, not human ones. We're human, so we tend to view attractiveness by our own standards, but when it comes to other species these standards rarely hold true.
Constitution represents your character's health and stamina.Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance.-Core Rulebook
It's Charisma. ^^
Healthy people look more attractive though.
Appearance can also mean how well groomed the character's appearance is.
And whenever anyone says Charisma measures how good someone looks I like to make lists such as this
Night Hag
Nosferatu
Lich
All creatures with high charisma or templates that add charisma despite the actual creature being very ugly.
Well, you know, there are a lot of half-dragons out there.
I think this image best shows personality vs. beauty.
In our games, we have an actual beauty score. roll 4d6, drop the lowest and call it a day.
Here's the image it's not perverted or anything. Just an image from an Anime called Magi, with Alibaba and Elizabeth >.> basically a Half-Giant Monk >.>
Well, a High-Charisma character who is ugly, rude, but good at managing people would work. Charisma isn't about who likes you—that's Diplomacy, and requires an active effort. If you don't care about who likes you and just want to keep people under control, ugly and rude is fine. Just look at the lich, or the beholder, or basically all undead.
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Neither Cha nor Con! Beauty has its own stat, "Comeliness." It's in the 1st edition Unearthed Arcana, which I know has no bearing on 3.X/PF, but I'm a grognard so I still use it.
If I remember correctly, AD&D 1st edition Unearthed Arcana introduced a 7th Attribute - Comeliness.
Because players were having problems with using Charisma for both appearance and leadership qualities, which could conflict with each other.
Since then it has reverted back to Charisma.
Edit: Nunja'd.
It's a bit mean and not entirely fair, but a common example of being beautiful with low charisma is Kristen Stewart.
It's a bit mean and not entirely fair, but a common example of being beautiful with low charisma is Kristen Stewart.
I would say it's probably not fair. I would give her a low Charisma for an actress but she's still more charismatic than most of the people you meet. Her looks are considered in the way upper range, but for Charisma I might give her ... a 12? 13?
Anyway "appearance" doesn't mean "looking hot." Someone could be beautiful, but lack magnetism, or get lost in a crowd. Someone could be kind of plain or even ugly-looking but have something about them that makes them remarkable or imposing or erotic.
There's a story about Marilyn Monroe. She was walking down the street with someone who asked how she walked down the street down the street without getting mobbed. She said, "Do you want to see her?" and struck a pose, and was instantly recognized.
Charisma is about influencing others. Part of that is appearance, but it's not a static quality. Trying to estimate beauty from Charisma is like trying to estimate weight from Strength... it's a good starting place, but that is not at all what Strength fundamentally measures. Some people are small but powerful, others are big but un-athletic.
Almost every face or figure study done in psychology would suggest beauty is mainly "Constitution, plus smiling."
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This is the British olympic diving champion, Tom Daley. And yes, he's very good looking, but what really makes him stand out is that big friendly smile. You have to allow for personality.
Beauty is a part of Charisma.
While the score itself doesn't necessarily determine physical attractiveness as it is a composition with personality, becoming more beautiful or ugly DOES influence the charisma score.
Proof 1: Preserving and restoring beauty through preventing and healing charisma damage/drain
Proof 2: The tooth fairy deals charisma damage by ripping teeth
It seems the rules say beauty is a part of charisma, and then go and have so many opposing examples that it contradicts itself.
Personally, I'd go with 'player decides.' My current GM has you roll for appearance. 3D6, modified by your Charisma modifier, and then you can alter it by 4 points, up or down.)
Ask the Beholder.
Just look at the beholder
Everybody knows the beauty is in the eye of the Beholder
Beauty is a part of Charisma.
While the score itself doesn't necessarily determine physical attractiveness as it is a composition with personality, becoming more beautiful or ugly DOES influence the charisma score.
Proof 1: Preserving and restoring beauty through preventing and healing charisma damage/drain
If you believe "true beauty" is inner beauty, that's not an example.
EDIT: In fact, the archetype states
For these champions, who are aware that aesthetics is subjective, beauty is the form inviolate.
Emphasis mine.
Proof 2: The tooth fairy deals charisma damage by ripping teeth
That's a supernatural attack. Also, it's hard to feel confident when you are bleeding from your pulled teeth.
Proof 2: The tooth fairy deals charisma damage by ripping teeth
So if the tooth fairy has pulled enough teeth you get so ugly that you fall unconscious?
A character with a Charisma score of 0 is not able to exert himself in any way and is unconscious.
In the games i play usually we play it based on CHA.
The more CHA you have , the more beautiful , more pleasent... you are.
This means usually the NPCs will pay more attention/care , if there arent other relevant reasons , to the PCs that have this higher.
I usually take Charisma to be presentation. It's not physical appearance, but social appearance. It doesn't matter what you look like if you've got hella swag.