no such rule existsif i remember correctly(don't quote me on this) if you have already used your swift action and want to use another ability that uses a swift action it will take your move action insteadI'm pretty sure Bracers of the Avenging Knight would work on both of them, and stack.
BUT I don't know how you can declare smite as a move action.
that's why i said don't quote me on this because i wasn't sure
also it kind of makes sense that if you have already used your swift action for the round trying to use another action that uses a swift action that it would use your next action type in line
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This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."
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But as far as I'm aware, there's no non-evil deity with "pain and suffering" in their portfolio.Neshen, the Knight of the Steel Lash, is a lawful/good empyreal lord with suffering in his portfolio, fitting in neatly alongside penitence and repentance.
Excellent paladin material, in fact.
The empyreal lord Vildeis is also quite a good fit.
This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."
Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
What the thread you talk about says is that the trait wasn't intended to allow it [RAI isn't RAW] and there is a "Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities" that Mark Moreland disagreed with. Neither one really has an impact on non-PFS RAW. "Not going to be presenting paladins who worship Asmodeus in official Pathfinder products" isn't the same as an illegal option or non-raw.
The only "No" is in PFS and you'll note that this thread isn't PFS.
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The empyreal lord Vildeis is also quite a good fit.But as far as I'm aware, there's no non-evil deity with "pain and suffering" in their portfolio.Neshen, the Knight of the Steel Lash, is a lawful/good empyreal lord with suffering in his portfolio, fitting in neatly alongside penitence and repentance.
Excellent paladin material, in fact.
Beat me to it. ^_^
This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
What the thread you talk about says is that the trait wasn't intended to allow it [RAI isn't RAW] and there is a "Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities" that Mark Moreland disagreed with. Neither one really has an impact on non-PFS RAW. "Not going to be presenting paladins who worship Asmodeus in official Pathfinder products" isn't the same as an illegal option or non-raw.
The only "No" is in PFS and you'll note that this thread isn't PFS.
Which means, for official purposes, they do not exist. Your campaigns at home? Do what you like, as usual. However, they officially do not exist ("A house divided against itself cannot stand"). There are a few NG/LN who already have paladins grandfathered in, but they are few.
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This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
What the thread you talk about says is that the trait wasn't intended to allow it [RAI isn't RAW] and there is a "Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities" that Mark Moreland disagreed with. Neither one really has an impact on non-PFS RAW. "Not going to be presenting paladins who worship Asmodeus in official Pathfinder products" isn't the same as an illegal option or non-raw.
The only "No" is in PFS and you'll note that this thread isn't PFS.
This was from the PDT. Wes explains it here.
But I agree that you can do what ever you want at home. I suspect though you won't see any support from Paizo in this regards. (IMHO)
There are a few NG/LN who already have paladins grandfathered in, but they are few.
What are the LN/NG gods who do not allow paladins?
Which means, for official purposes, they do not exist. Your campaigns at home? Do what you like, as usual. However, they officially do not exist ("A house divided against itself cannot stand"). There are a few NG/LN who already have paladins grandfathered in, but they are few.This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
What the thread you talk about says is that the trait wasn't intended to allow it [RAI isn't RAW] and there is a "Paizo house-rule that paladins have to worship lawful good deities" that Mark Moreland disagreed with. Neither one really has an impact on non-PFS RAW. "Not going to be presenting paladins who worship Asmodeus in official Pathfinder products" isn't the same as an illegal option or non-raw.
The only "No" is in PFS and you'll note that this thread isn't PFS.
They don't exist in Golarion. The PFRPG ruleset is not Golarion specific, which is why there are rules detail Clerics devoted to an ideal in the CRB even though those don't exist in Golarion either.
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Note that in Golarion, deities do not draw power from their worshipers.True, but not relevant to the topic at hand. Also what dieties actually draw power from is unspecified. It is assumed however, that dieties have both a vested and bound interest in pursuing their portfolios.
It is, however, relevant to the post immediately above it.
Please consider the context in which my posts appear before criticizing them for irrelevance. Thank you.
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There are a few NG/LN who already have paladins grandfathered in, but they are few.What are the LN/NG gods who do not allow paladins?
Of the core Golarion pantheon, every LN and NG god has paladins with a deity specific code. I am not aware of any god within one step of LG that does not allow paladins.
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The empyreal lord Vildeis is also quite a good fit.But as far as I'm aware, there's no non-evil deity with "pain and suffering" in their portfolio.Neshen, the Knight of the Steel Lash, is a lawful/good empyreal lord with suffering in his portfolio, fitting in neatly alongside penitence and repentance.
Excellent paladin material, in fact.
That's what I'm thinking of, thanks! Gotta love Champions of the Righteous.
Vildeis and Neshen probably cover most of the positive aspects of pain between them - though it's hard to tell since it looks like Neshen doesn't have any actual flavour write-up, just his portfolio and mechanics? Archives of Nethys is down so I'm basing that on the book.
Though my lesser familiarity with the empyreal lords could certainly find parallels in-game in characters who aren't aware of the non-evil patrons of pain. I'm now liking the idea of a heretical kuthonite who in the course of the story discovers and joins a mystery cult devoted to Vildeis and/or Neshen - and then perhaps seeks out Kuthonites to convert or destroy them.
also it kind of makes sense that if you have already used your swift action for the round trying to use another action that uses a swift action that it would use your next action type in line
It's a common houserule, but the only action trade actually allowed in the game is standard -> move, or using two standards to start/complete a full-round action.
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This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
This was from the PDT. Wes explains it here.
I doubt you actually care, but Wes is not and has never been a part of the PDT.
The design team is about the only thing he's not in charge of. In this case, I think that editorial opinion is more relevant. But, good point of clarification.
The design team is about the only thing he's not in charge of. In this case, I think that editorial opinion is more relevant. But, good point of clarification.This whole thread is moot as the developers have said it does not do what is asked. You will find it in the Product Discussion thread, I believe.
In Golarion, in Paizo's Pathfinder, in PFS, there is no way this can happen. You can allow it in your homebrew games, but officially the answer is "No."Was it from the PDT saying no? If not, I believe it's only relevant in PFS. Many Golarion/Pathfinder games don't take place using PFS rules.
This was from the PDT. Wes explains it here.
I doubt you actually care, but Wes is not and has never been a part of the PDT.
Yep, Wes isn't part of the people that makes the final word on things as far as I know so it isn't an official RAW statement. Even PDT statements on the messageboards aren't official unless they are stated as such.
Quantum Steve: "They don't exist in Golarion." No, what they said is they aren't planning on making any. That isn't the same thing. NPC's aren't PC's.
Herald: I would disagree on the "home" part. Nothing so far that I've seen has disallowed an Asmodean Paladin in a game run 100% Golarion without houserules. It seems that they don't plan support for one or the making of NPC ones but the trait seems to put an Asmodean one as viable RAW as any other LN god.
PS: For the record, I personally don't care one way or the other. I haven't played a paladin since 3.0 and this isn't going to change that. ;)
Herald: I would disagree on the "home" part. Nothing so far that I've seen has disallowed an Asmodean Paladin in a game run 100% Golarion without houserules. It seems that they don't plan support for one or the making of NPC ones but the trait seems to put an Asmodean one as viable RAW as any other LN god.That little stickler on association with evil on the Paladin code might just have something to do with it. If you're supposed to not associate with evil when it comes to companions and henchman, I'd imagine it should also refer to the choice of diety you worship. And even the most idiotic of Paladins should get a clue when detect evil pings on the bulk of the god's clerics.
Do you know what RAW means?
Do you know what Context and Clearly RAI mean? A Paladin falls if he pledges his service to evil. Big A definitely qualifies.Do you know what RAW means?Herald: I would disagree on the "home" part. Nothing so far that I've seen has disallowed an Asmodean Paladin in a game run 100% Golarion without houserules. It seems that they don't plan support for one or the making of NPC ones but the trait seems to put an Asmodean one as viable RAW as any other LN god.That little stickler on association with evil on the Paladin code might just have something to do with it. If you're supposed to not associate with evil when it comes to companions and henchman, I'd imagine it should also refer to the choice of diety you worship. And even the most idiotic of Paladins should get a clue when detect evil pings on the bulk of the god's clerics.
His post specifically mentioned RAW. It doesn't matter what the intention is.
Unless they're personally battling Rovagug itself, there is no evil great enough to excuse worshipping Asmodeus.
So the bottom line is that RAW, there can be paladins of Asmodeus, but only as long as they are fighting against what they see as a greater evil.Such is your belief, and you would therefore clearly be incapable of becoming a paladin of Asmodeus.
But if there's one thing these continual paladin discussions have taught us, it's that people have lots of different ideas about what constitutes good and evil.
And this is the one part of the paladin code that specifically and repeatedly emphasizes that this depends on the paladin's own assessment of the situation.
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.Sure, you'd need frequent atonements to maintain the precarious balance. But I'm sure there are some paladin mindsets for which this could work - anything from the blind devotion to the elimination of a certain unspeakable evil to cold, utilitarian efforts to maximize happiness and make the world a better place. Honestly, this sounds like a fantastic roleplaying opportunity. And personally, I feel that there are a lot of things that could be a whole lot more evil than Asmodeus.
There isn't any ambiguity at all actually, Asmodeus decidedly has the Evil Domain and is a God
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I deeply regret ever writing this trait -_-
You didn't start the Fall Wars, don't worry.
So essentially its a trait for clerics ?
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I deeply regret ever writing this trait -_-
I'm glad you did. It's very flavorful, and it opens the door for some very fun role-playing opportunities. I really like the flavor of the Wily Linguist, and would love to play an evangelist going out to show those heathens in Cheliax the true face of the the goddess.
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So essentially its a trait for clerics ?It name-drops clerics and inquisitors... so yes.
(There's also a line about "and other divine spellcasters" included for completeness's sake.)
For example with this trait you could be a NN Druid also
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I deeply regret ever writing this trait -_-
No offense, you're one of my favorite writers, but yes it was a mistake, it's okay tho nobody is perfect:-)
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Of the core Golarion pantheon, every LN and NG god has paladins with a deity specific code. I am not aware of any god within one step of LG that does not allow paladins.There are a few NG/LN who already have paladins grandfathered in, but they are few.What are the LN/NG gods who do not allow paladins?
Irori had no paladins, until the Champion of Irori prestige class came about.
...I suppose paladins of Erecura are possible. That's sort of a back-door devil-paladin.
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I deeply regret ever writing this trait -_-No offense, you're one of my favorite writers, but yes it was a mistake, it's okay tho nobody is perfect:-)
I don't think the trait was a mistake.
But if I'm being fully honest, I'd have left out the "and other divine spellcasters" line. Lock it to clerics and inquisitors.
Of course, hindsight is 20/20. And I knew about the paladin-of-Asmodeus subculture, where others didn't.
After how much effort James and the rest of the staff had to expend to right what was previously written I'd have to say it was a mistake:-D
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Yeah it wasn't written well considering the intention, but at least it isn't as Much as a gaff as sacred geometry or divine protection, lol
It's actually somewhat comparable to Divine Protection. ^_^
It works great for the classes it was probably intended for... but there's one class that makes it a huge problem.
I'm sure I'm about to get laughed at..... but I really dont see what the fuss is about?!?
Can somebody explain?!
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I'm sure I'm about to get laughed at..... but I really dont see what the fuss is about?!?
Can somebody explain?!
Back in Council of Thieves, the deity article on Asmodeus suggested that there were real paladins of Asmodeus - one of two major snafus with the deity articles from that era. Sean K. Reynolds was the author of the deity articles back then, and his vision of some things was not in line with the Creative Team's vision at times.
It was retconned as soon as James Jacobs heard about it, but love for the idea persisted. Inner Sea Gods rewrote these "paladins of Asmodeus" as shysters and deceivers.
Love for the idea of "paladins of Asmodeus" persisted, though, despite - and possibly because of - the intense disapproval of the staff.
