How could a wizard lose spell-casting ability?

[Ginsu23]

I'd like some help with a character concept please..

the idea is that he used to be a wizard. his spellcasting ability was somehow taken away by a rival mage (still workin on that). with no magical ability left,, he hit the gym super hard and learned to wield a sword. he's gonna take feats and stuff for fighting casters to better get revenge on the guy that screwed him over. he's gonna be like 50 years old, and buff as hell.

I would appreciate some ideas to justify how he lost the ability to cast spells. I still want decent mental stats, so that leaves out the feeblemind spell. I was thinking of level drain or something maybe, but I'm not sure. Any ideas would be great. I'm also aware of all the modifiers for old age, I don't mind them.

I really don't need optimization advice or anything, just ideas for how someone would lose their magickal abilities.

[Grey_Mage]

Unfortunately there isn't enough to go on because a lot of the flavoring on how magic happens is campaign specific.

Ideas...

1) wish. seems like easy way out.

2) Binding an outsider that works for the deity of magic that cuts off the mages
rivals by altering the individuals access to magic. Think like blackmailing a dirty cop to make fictitious tickets or something.

As a plot device the player could even get his power back, if he can contact,or bind the outsiders boss but without spellcasting... good luck.

3) Irreparable hand damage that prevents fine motor skills required for spell casting but not enough to interfere with swordplay.

[claymade]

Well, if you're fine with a more general "lost it in a fight with this rival mage" instead of specifically "was taken away by the rival mage's direct actions", then one way I can think of offhand to permanently lose spellcasting is by using Mage's Disjunction to destroy an artifact. So if, say, they were in some kind of life or death fight, and the rival was using an artifact to put him on the ropes, and the guy got desperate enough to disjoin it, but botched his Will save...

Anyway, that's the one way I can think of by RAW that such an effect could be incurred...

[Rycaut]

what level are you starting the campaign at?

any restrictions on races or classes?

one alternative would be to play a character that is of a race like the Samsaran that may have been a wizard in a past life (then the "how did he lose his spellcasting abilities" is easy - he was killed)

mechanically if you aren't starting at level one an option would be to factor in the retraining rules - i.e. have the character have retrained from wizard to another class - mechanically that loses spell casting abilities - and it implies that there is a way to give up spellcasting - perhaps the rival mage didn't use magic to force him but instead used some form of threat or blackmail - i.e. if you don't of your own free will give up your power then something bad will happen to someone or something you care about...

(works best probably if the characters are over level 1 but not into super high levels)

could also then be associated with a curse or something that activates if the character ever learns magic again (possibly only arcane magic?)

[Ginsu23]

Wow, those replies came quick. Thank yall for your ideas. My magic did not necessarily have to be lost during a fight. It was just caused by a rival in some way, like a curse or wish or whatever.

I wouldn't be opposed to ideas outside the of the whole "a rival screwed me out of my magic" thing. It could have happened some other way I guess. Great ideas so far, keep em comin. And thanks again.

[Ginsu23]

campaign is level one. as long as it's official paizo stuff, it's allowed.

[Garrick Williams]

Why not amnesia or some kind of spellblight?

[Ginsu23]

I have already done stuff with amnesia with past characters, don't really want to go there again. idk what spellblight is, but I'll check.

[Cyrad]

Spellblights are magical curses that disrupt spellcasting. You could easily say your character has a major spellblight that prevents them from casting spells.

[Ginsu23]

o cool. i have never heard of spellblight before. good idea.

[LazarX]

Ginsu23 wrote:

I'd like some help with a character concept please..

the idea is that he used to be a wizard. his spellcasting ability was somehow taken away by a rival mage (still workin on that). with no magical ability left,, he hit the gym super hard and learned to wield a sword. he's gonna take feats and stuff for fighting casters to better get revenge on the guy that screwed him over. he's gonna be like 50 years old, and buff as hell.

I would appreciate some ideas to justify how he lost the ability to cast spells. I still want decent mental stats, so that leaves out the feeblemind spell. I was thinking of level drain or something maybe, but I'm not sure. Any ideas would be great. I'm also aware of all the modifiers for old age, I don't mind them.

I really don't need optimization advice or anything, just ideas for how someone would lose their magickal abilities.

There are no rules for this. Call it simply a story fiat thing and simply say the character can not prepare or cast any spells.... job done.

The only real question is do you want to leave in dead wizard levels or say that he retrained as a fighter or some other class. There's even precedent for this. Queen Galfrey of Mendev retrained all of her aristocrat levels into Paladin.

[BigDTBone]

He has debilitating chronic pain that prevents him from having the appropriate concentration required to cast spells.

[Ginsu23]

perhaps he has a constant raging boner? not enough blood in his brain for casting?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

He has become severely farsighted with age and can no longer read his spell book. If only someone would invent glasses!

[Norgrim Malgus]

Artifacts are notorious for bestowing adverse conditions if care isn't taken; a bit cliché maybe, but definitely plausible.

[My Self]

Ginsu23 wrote:

perhaps he has a constant raging boner? not enough blood in his brain for casting?

Or perhaps is literally raging. Bloodraging.

[Ginsu23]

hmmm. his power loss could be a result of personal hubris. he misused an artifact and suffered the consequences. that's a good one. thanks man.

[Gleaming Terrier]

Reincarnated into a race that doesn't have access to his racial magic.

Hand/arm cut off, and the clockwork replacement he has won't work for magic.

Deck of Many Things.

[Isonaroc]

A big rock.

Sorry, I'm tired.

[kyrt-ryder]

Some kind of permanent non-reversable reduction in Intelligence.

Bonus points if it technically can be reversed but doing so requires genius intellect and his 10 points or less of Int now can't figure it out.

[Rynjin]

Having recently started reading The Broken Eye, perhaps he was stabbed by an Artifact weapon that drains spellcasting ability out of someone. Instead of doing so by making them entirely colorblind (as the knife in the book did, since color is required to use magic there), it just binds his "Third eye" or something. He can no longer see magical auras of any kind, ever, and therefore can't manipulate them any more either.

Bonus points if that let him actually STEAL your magic, and he became more powerful (higher level) as a result.

Then channel your rage into being a Barbarian and Spell Sunder the ever-loving shit out of the guy.

[Isonaroc]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

Some kind of permanent non-reversable reduction in Intelligence.

Yeah, like I said, a big rock.

[Adagna]

Magic must have some physical conduit through the human body. Hence why some can master it and others can not.

You could have the loss of magic be due to researching a powerful new spell that he tried to cast before he had mastered it. And due to some kind of epic magical "fumble" he "burned out" his conduit to the magic. Or the rival mage sabotaged his experiment to intentionally cause this damage.

[CWheezy]

What if he used to be a level 20 wizard that yolo mages disjunctioned an artifact and lost all his spellcasting.

[Doomed Hero]

Feeblemind?

I guess that would make the character kinda hard to play.

[VampByDay]

There's a new psychic spell (mindwipe) that causes you to loose two levels, but also gets rid of your two highest spells per day and (if you are a spontanous caster) two of your highest spells known. You could maybe say that your archrival created a higher version of that, and cast it on you, then permanancied it. Just a thought.

[Ed Girallon Poe]

CWheezy wrote:

What if he used to be a level 20 wizard that yolo mages disjunctioned an artifact and lost all his spellcasting.

CWheezy has the right idea. He could have even used a scroll of it.

Mages Disjunction wrote:

All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell. An item in a creature's possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor's Will save bonus, whichever is higher. If an item's saving throw results in a natural 1 on the die, the item is destroyed instead of being suppressed.

You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined.

You can also use this spell to target a single item. The item gets a Will save at a -5 penalty to avoid being permanently destroyed. Even artifacts are subject to mage's disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. If successful, the artifact's power unravels, and it is destroyed (with no save). If an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish. Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

[Rycaut]

for a level one campaign I think I would either suggest something like reincarnation (or a race like samsaram where that is built into the race) or possibly a spellblight or special curse.

I do think however that such epic level stuff as the start of a level 1 campaign is somewhat problematic (depends a bit on how rapidly your games level up and where you plan on stopping) - but it seems somewhat odd that someone who is 50+ with a long history (long enough to have had a rival etc) would only be level 1. There are some other alternatives that might give a similar flavor:

- have the cursed wizard be a relative of your PC - so one thought perhaps you are playing the 50 something brother who had stayed on the family farm and wasn't the adventuring type but when his brother, the wizard, who had spent a lifetime away as an adventurer came home without his powers you set off to redeem him. Similar flavor but mechanically may be less complex. You could add in some familial curse effect (perhaps) or you might choose to play say an Untouchable Bloodrager (which is a type of Bloodrager that doesn't get spells at all - instead you gain spell resistance from level 4 onward whenever raging - and at higher levels you gain it all the time. (there may be some other options for a similar effect - a character that mechanically has something that is directly "anti" magic and perhaps preferably is a martial class to boot.

[Adagna]

Ed Girallon Poe wrote:

CWheezy wrote:

What if he used to be a level 20 wizard that yolo mages disjunctioned an artifact and lost all his spellcasting.

CWheezy has the right idea. He could have even used a scroll of it.

Mages Disjunction wrote:

All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell. An item in a creature's possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor's Will save bonus, whichever is higher. If an item's saving throw results in a natural 1 on the die, the item is destroyed instead of being suppressed.

You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined.

You can also use this spell to target a single item. The item gets a Will save at a -5 penalty to avoid being permanently destroyed. Even artifacts are subject to mage's disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. If successful, the artifact's power unravels, and it is destroyed (with no save). If an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish. Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

This could make fore some pretty good back story flavor. Say the rival evil mage was going to unleash some devastating evil artifact. An Armageddon Clock or something that would have wiped out an entire continent. Your character cast the disjunction spell to save everyone and lost their spell casting. To add insult to injury the news of this plot was covered up by the powers that be so that panic did not ensue with the populace. So no one even knows that your character is an epic hero, saved everyone and is worthy of a multitude of bards to write songs about him... and that he sounds like a raving lunatic if he tries to tell everyone that he saved them.

[LazarX]

The iconic version of this trope is of course Aahz, the mentor for the bumbling wizard apprentice Skeeve. Aahz lost his powers because they were taken away as part of a joke by his best friend who was killed before he could put them back.

[Otherwhere]

Ewwwww! Maybe he has the arcane equivalent of Cerebral Parasites! (Some extra dimensional parasites that suck up his arcane reserves, making him incapable of connecting with magical energy.)

[Adagna]

LazarX wrote:

The iconic version of this trope is of course Aahz, the mentor for the bumbling wizard apprentice Skeeve. Aahz lost his powers because they were taken away as part of a joke by his best friend who was killed before he could put them back.

And this is why practical jokes are never funny....

[Saldiven]

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how 'about something that has permanently reduced his intelligence to something below 10? He'd still technically have the ability to cast spells, but would be limited to spells of level -1 or lower due to his intelligence score.

[Charon's Little Helper]

LazarX wrote:

The iconic version of this trope is of course Aahz, the mentor for the bumbling wizard apprentice Skeeve. Aahz lost his powers because they were taken away as part of a joke by his best friend who was killed before he could put them back.

I will point out that he didn't lose them permanently... only for a century. (Perverts live a long time. :P)

[DeviousDevious]

very small anti-magic field cast on an object, and have that object surgically implanted into your poor guy. give him a small bonus on saves vs magic if you like the flavor aspect.

[Qaianna]

Spellbooks secretly replaced with coffee grounds. Or curse of being illiterate in magical writings of others.

[Qaianna]

And let's not forget our good friend GEAS.

[strayshift]

Everyone has a finite amount of spell levels they are able to use (say... a thousand) and he had his stolen.

[AngryNerdRageDemon]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

(Perverts live a long time. :P)

'EY! It's Pervect! Ya joik!

[Decimus Drake]

Does he have to have been a wizard or could he have been some other kind of arcane caster? Maybe a sorcerer who had the power in their blood stolen away or a witch who's connection to their patron was severed?

[Foeclan]

Time travel. Older you (or your rival, or some deity) manages to convince younger you to go into a different line of work. Maybe this prevents you from causing some greater catastrophe because power really goes to your head. Maybe alternate you could even turn up as the BBEG further down the road.

Be sure to occasionally look at the party wizard and sigh wistfully at what might have been.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Qaianna wrote:

Spellbooks secretly replaced with coffee grounds. Or curse of being illiterate in magical writings of others.

"We've secretly replaced everything in this wizard's spell component pouch with new Folger's Crystals. Let's see if he notices."

[Qaianna]

Foeclan wrote:

Time travel. Older you (or your rival, or some deity) manages to convince younger you to go into a different line of work. Maybe this prevents you from causing some greater catastrophe because power really goes to your head. Maybe alternate you could even turn up as the BBEG further down the road.

Be sure to occasionally look at the party wizard and sigh wistfully at what might have been.

'Actually, I'm from next Tuesday. ... I have something extremely important to tell you about the future! And I've only got a few seconds, so you've got to listen! Whatever you do, don't-'

I can't be the only one thinking this.

[Ginsu23]

Saldiven wrote:

Not sure if it's been mentioned, but how 'about something that has permanently reduced his intelligence to something below 10? He'd still technically have the ability to cast spells, but would be limited to spells of level -1 or lower due to his intelligence score.

Cuz I still want skill points XD

[Ginsu23]

Decimus Drake wrote:

Does he have to have been a wizard or could he have been some other kind of arcane caster? Maybe a sorcerer who had the power in their blood stolen away or a witch who's connection to their patron was severed?

I want him to be a former wizard. I like all the flavor stuff for them. The whole thing about an old man toiling away in his tower, locked away from the world. The magic experiments and countless hours of study. Wizards have to work very hard for their magic, making it all the more infuriating when that power is taken away.

[Ginsu23]

Foeclan wrote:

Time travel. Older you (or your rival, or some deity) manages to convince younger you to go into a different line of work. Maybe this prevents you from causing some greater catastrophe because power really goes to your head. Maybe alternate you could even turn up as the BBEG further down the road.

Be sure to occasionally look at the party wizard and sigh wistfully at what might have been.

saw this trait, with a little reflavoring it will go great what with you said...

[trait] FOUL BRAND:: Effect: You have the symbol of an evil deity burned into your flesh. If the symbol is on your hand, you take a –1 penalty on Disable Device, Disguise, and Sleight of Hand checks. If the symbol is on your face, you take a –2 penalty on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Disguise checks.

So here's what I'm thinking... My future self caused some great magical catastrophe that practically destroyed the world. He went back in time to brand his past self (that's me) with a glyph that prevents me from casting spells. I don't know that the guy was me from the future, so I just want to take revenge and get my magic back. My mission will be to literally kill myself XD

Time travelling nearly destroyed him. He realized that no living creature could survive the trip through time. When it becomes apparent to him that I am still on the path to f@+!ing everything up, he starts sending terminator golems back in time to kill me.

[Mystic_Snowfang]

Smacked really hard on the head so he's no longer smart enough to do spellcasting
then
Ripped out his tongue and then damaged his hands so he can't cast as well

[lemeres]

Adagna wrote:

Mages Disjunction wrote:

You can also use this spell to target a single item. The item gets a Will save at a -5 penalty to avoid being permanently destroyed. Even artifacts are subject to mage's disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. If successful, the artifact's power unravels, and it is destroyed (with no save). If an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish. Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

This could make fore some pretty good back story flavor. Say the rival evil mage was going to unleash some devastating evil artifact. An Armageddon Clock or something that would have wiped out an entire continent. Your character cast the disjunction spell to save everyone and lost their spell casting. To add insult to injury the news of this plot was covered up by the powers that be so that panic did not ensue with the populace. So no one even knows that your character is an epic hero, saved everyone and is worthy of a multitude of bards to write songs about him... and that he sounds like a raving lunatic if he tries to tell everyone that he saved them.

Or this could be some type of punishment system for spellcasters

Basically, there would need to be some artifact the kingdom/mages guild/etc needed to destroy, but after losing so many of their brightest in the failed attempts, they couldn't just waste more high level casters on it. So now, they only throw those they want to get rid of at the thing. And thus you don't have the problem of 'how to even begin to do punishments for spellcasters other than execution when they could just boom out of any prison'.

You can thus make the situation with the rival about how he framed you politically so that you were sentenced to waste your magical power throwing it at the thing.

This could be useful if you want this person to be shamed, wronged, and broken- someone who was once at the top, and now a mere beggar on the streets seen with contempt because EVERYONE KNOWS HOW HE GOT THAT WAY, and thus spit on him. That is another powerful character archetype worth considering, particularly since it give something more interesting for world building than 'fight over a random macguffin'.

I mean, you can have the fight over the random macguffin later, obviously. Brings closure and such. But I would want it to be something with a history other than a shiny baubble.

[Ginsu23]

It's not really a mcguffin when it's function and purpose are explained.

[Ravingdork]

The only way I can think of to represent this off the top of my head is to have a high level wizard try to disjoin another high level wizard's artifact, lose all of his powers when the artifact explodes, and then start retraining EVERYTHING into some kind of anti-caster martial build.

It has the added effect of creating a really pissed off reoccurring enemy wizard NPC whose artifact you destroyed. Might make for an interesting story.