| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do need more grues hanging around..
Part of the issue is it's Mother's Day weekend, and 5 players will be out of town, but all but one said they had no interest. My group is 4 people, with occasional "guest players" that sometimes brings the group up to 8. But I have other friends I've contacted about it, and they just blew the invitation off with excuses of "I don't know how to play" to "I think it's a horrible game and offensive". sigh...
I know the feeling the group i've had off and on for 8 years plays all kinds of board games and such on a regular basis where they are at. When the come over to my place to game it has to be pathfinder.
He should have closed his thread for a time before. You could see he was becoming burned. He looks like a great person. I've got «yes» or «no» answers from him a couple of times and you could see he was answering more as an obligation than enjoying it. I wouldn't like to be in his shoes, you know. And other people kept asking about 10 questions in a row, and then more, and more. That really ends burning anyone.
My grievance today is that people take advantage of James Jacob's kindness in having a question and answer thread. He's had people use his answers as inappropriate fuel for bad internet arguments and it's burned him out. This is why we can't have nice things. I feel sorry for the guy because it's really great he is engaged with the fans. It sucks it comes back to bite him.
Yeah it sucks but it happens to every single one of them. I'm honestly surprised no one has tried to use a mod deleting a post or locking a thread as evidence in a rules argument yet.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yea I have no ill wishes, towards JJ or any of the other creative personal at the company, but as talon said the contentious nature, of many of the arguments, in the forum tends to seep in everywhere. I mean no one deserves to burn out, but if you engage with a base, as broad as this game's, someone somewhere is gonna be dissatisfied with something, and put pressure on you. So its a really hard calculation, as to how much you should engage the player base, or if you should just be giving "whatever works best for you answers".
I'm actually more astonished, that none of them have snapped, and just posted something along the line of "Its a g&#@!*ned game, play it as you f+&#ing like" ad nauseam.
Whether that's a sign of ironclad professionalism or just stubborn commitment to a singular vision I can only guess at.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've wondered the same about the "It's a game, play it any smegging way you want."
Recently played with a GM who:
- Gave minimal descriptions of the environment to balance the game difficulty (we had a strong group of characters).
- Was running published material and did not make it their own. (Presented any errors as something in the document and didn't fix them behind the scenes.)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, I am a bit shocked about that kind of GM who says that a written encounter is too hard or too easy for his players and that he realized it in advance but did nothing about it because it was written like that. They even claim to know how they should have fixed it. And they blame the written thing for the ressults. As they didn't have the power of rewritting anything they wanted.
No matter how good is a prewritten adventure it will never fit perfectly all players/games.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, I am a bit shocked about that kind of GM who says that a written encounter is too hard or too easy for his players and that he realized it in advance but did nothing about it because it was written like that. They even claim to know how they should have fixed it. And they blame the written thing for the ressults. As they didn't have the power of rewritting anything they wanted.
No matter how good is a prewritten adventure it will never fit perfectly all players/games.
Yeah I will gladly tone down encounters that might TPK my group. I might beef up face rolls but typically only if it is a major point of the adventure. Sometimes the party needs to show up and mop the floor with the bandits and just be big damn heroes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yeah I will gladly tone down encounters that might TPK my group. I might beef up face rolls but typically only if it is a major point of the adventure. Sometimes the party needs to show up and mop the floor with the bandits and just be big damn heroes.Yes, I am a bit shocked about that kind of GM who says that a written encounter is too hard or too easy for his players and that he realized it in advance but did nothing about it because it was written like that. They even claim to know how they should have fixed it. And they blame the written thing for the ressults. As they didn't have the power of rewritting anything they wanted.
No matter how good is a prewritten adventure it will never fit perfectly all players/games.
Games are suppose to be fun. If the written material, dice rolls or anything else is stopping that, then it is within (almost) everyone power to change the encounters, fudge the rolls or add hot sauce to make everything a more enjoyable experience for both players and GM alike.
It also depends on the mood of the campaign. I enjoyed Reign of Winter having such difficult encounters as a player, as it was a quite grim and dark campaign. But as a GM in S&S I set a more lighthearted tone and didn't care a lot if the encounters were often too easy. In WotW I was an evil GM instead: evil people deserve bad things happening to them xD
I've never heard Skull and Shackles being referred to as easy before. I had characters bribing crew members to be captain so they wouldn't die (our captains had a nasty habit of dying).
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It also depends on the mood of the campaign. I enjoyed Reign of Winter having such difficult encounters as a player, as it was a quite grim and dark campaign. But as a GM in S&S I set a more lighthearted tone and didn't care a lot if the encounters were often too easy. In WotW I was an evil GM instead: evil people deserve bad things happening to them xD
I completely agree, its hard to set a lighthearted tone, when your running your players through a haunted house (warning very traumatic material, especially for those who have lost family members to violence or suicide)
I drove the general concept of the hauntings past my players first to make sure none of it hit any raw nerves.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My grievance today is that people take advantage of James Jacob's kindness in having a question and answer thread. He's had people use his answers as inappropriate fuel for bad internet arguments and it's burned him out. This is why we can't have nice things. I feel sorry for the guy because it's really great he is engaged with the fans. It sucks it comes back to bite him.Yeah it sucks but it happens to every single one of them. I'm honestly surprised no one has tried to use a mod deleting a post or locking a thread as evidence in a rules argument yet.
Well, if the Pathfinder Design Team answered FAQs more than once a month or so, then people wouldnt have to.
Yes, it's true that answering questions doesnt directly make them money, as opposed to new products, but supporting older products in important.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qpmc?SnoCone-Wish-Machine#1
51 FAQ requests, 3 years and not answered.
There's others.
I never toned down any Skull and Shackles encounter aside from the island in the first book, and that was because I only had 3 players and 2 were casters. Then I had Sandara into the group to make a full party. Generally, the PCs solved most encounters easily. There were many difficult encounters in the 4th book but overall the AP wasn't very hard.
Your Haunted House, Kjeldorn, sounds like a campaign I'd like to play. I often like some grim and dark tones in the stories and I have a tendency to add some serious stuff in my campaigns. Not always, as it depends on the players, but I'm not afraid of being a bit too realistic with some issues.
There's others.
I'm sure we could probably find ones just as long hell I think masterpieces is getting there.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I never toned down any Skull and Shackles encounter aside from the island in the first book, and that was because I only had 3 players and 2 were casters. Then I had Sandara into the group to make a full party. Generally, the PCs solved most encounters easily. There were many difficult encounters in the 4th book but overall the AP wasn't very hard.
Your Haunted House, Kjeldorn, sounds like a campaign I'd like to play. I often like some grim and dark tones in the stories and I have a tendency to add some serious stuff in my campaigns. Not always, as it depends on the players, but I'm not afraid of being a bit too realistic with some issues.
Thank you very much Kile, for a moment I was afraid I'd scared you off, but I'm glad that wasn't the case.
Its still the talk of some of my players, as that house scared them paranoid. They ended up only investigating the place in the daytime, when they discovered that daylight depowered some of the ghosts/poltergeists/hauntings.Honestly, from what I've seen of your campaign journal, I would have liked to be in your S&S, both because its seem fun but also since its Dragonlance, a campaign setting I not very familiar with (Forgotten Realm was my intro setting).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yes, it's true that answering questions doesnt directly make them money, as opposed to new products, but supporting older products in important.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qpmc?SnoCone-Wish-Machine#1
51 FAQ requests, 3 years and not answered.There's others.
Just another reason I don't bother with errata and things of that nature, coming here for advice on things instead.
I do, too. And I need to paint my living room pretty badly. But congrats on the house!
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I never toned down any Skull and Shackles encounter aside from the island in the first book, and that was because I only had 3 players and 2 were casters. Then I had Sandara into the group to make a full party. Generally, the PCs solved most encounters easily. There were many difficult encounters in the 4th book but overall the AP wasn't very hard.
Your Haunted House, Kjeldorn, sounds like a campaign I'd like to play. I often like some grim and dark tones in the stories and I have a tendency to add some serious stuff in my campaigns. Not always, as it depends on the players, but I'm not afraid of being a bit too realistic with some issues.
Thank you very much Kile, for a moment I was afraid I'd scared you off, but I'm glad that wasn't the case.
Its still the talk of some of my players, as that house scared them paranoid. They ended up only investigating the place in the daytime, when they discovered that daylight depowered some of the ghosts/poltergeists/hauntings.
Honestly, from what I've seen of your campaign journal, I would have liked to be in your S&S, both because its seem fun but also since its Dragonlance, a campaign setting I not very familiar with (Forgotten Realm was my intro setting).
I hated Forgotten Realms, mainly because there were two really awful players who were obsessed about it and I couldn't avoid thinking of Forgotten Realms as related to them. I never knew a lot about the setting anyway.
Having starting roleplaying in WoD, I have a tendency to appreciate dark stories but my favorite ones are the ones that explore the morality and decissions of the characters. No matter if the story is more grim lighthearted I like decissions to be relevant. I also base the stories a lot on interaction between the characters so I favor characters with well developed backgrounds and complex personalities.
Right now I'm GMing hangman's noose for my group, that is also a haunted house story and I'm liking it a lot. It is somewhat gorey but the two players I have in it appreciate it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, if the Pathfinder Design Team answered FAQs more than once a month or so, then people wouldnt have to.My grievance today is that people take advantage of James Jacob's kindness in having a question and answer thread. He's had people use his answers as inappropriate fuel for bad internet arguments and it's burned him out. This is why we can't have nice things. I feel sorry for the guy because it's really great he is engaged with the fans. It sucks it comes back to bite him.Yeah it sucks but it happens to every single one of them. I'm honestly surprised no one has tried to use a mod deleting a post or locking a thread as evidence in a rules argument yet.
Have to?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
My grievance today is that people take advantage of James Jacob's kindness in having a question and answer thread. He's had people use his answers as inappropriate fuel for bad internet arguments and it's burned him out. This is why we can't have nice things. I feel sorry for the guy because it's really great he is engaged with the fans. It sucks it comes back to bite him.Yeah it sucks but it happens to every single one of them. I'm honestly surprised no one has tried to use a mod deleting a post or locking a thread as evidence in a rules argument yet.Well, if the Pathfinder Design Team answered FAQs more than once a month or so, then people wouldnt have to.
Yes, it's true that answering questions doesnt directly make them money, as opposed to new products, but supporting older products in important.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qpmc?SnoCone-Wish-Machine#1
51 FAQ requests, 3 years and not answered.There's others.
I agree with you in part. Ultimately the GM just needs to make a decision. Jacobs used to answer rules questions with the caveat that it was how he would rule. Then one day the design team answered a rules question differently and a poster went on a rampage posting in multiple places that Paizo needed to get its house in order and James got called into the boss to explain himself. That's when he stopped answering rules questions. And that's why we can't have nice things.
People take it as everything he said was the absolute truth but all he can give is advice and opinions. He was very helpful with some fluff stuff I had to ask, but there were too many people abusing his kindness.
And sometimes you have to just houserule things that are not clear. Not everything is going to be in a FAQ.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
People take it as everything he said was the absolute truth but all he can give is advice and opinions. He was very helpful with some fluff stuff I had to ask, but there were too many people abusing his kindness.
And sometimes you have to just houserule things that are not clear. Not everything is going to be in a FAQ.
Which sadly is mostly in part due to the posters. We used to have not only James but SKR and to a lesser degree Jason answer questions it might not have been 100% official but it gave clear intent as to how the people who adjudicate the rules would adjudicate it. But the people started being people and we had to have an official PDT account, which led people to telling SKR when he did still offer insight that he wasn't the rules account. Then we attacked almost every FAQ that was released looking for little cracks in the armor, or words that could be still twisted to our ends. So now we get 5-10 a year maybe. And I feel that has also affected what will be FAQ'd it's far easier to write bulletproof FAQ's for things that aren't super hotly contested, or are simple answers that just need someone to pick one.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Excuse me, but I find the following comment rather valid here: "What 'we' are you talking about?" Yourself and your pals? Or, as I believe, everyone on the forums?
None of us has the ability to stop someone else from posting.
Spraying the blame hose seems to be rather modern, sadly. That doesn't mean it's anything but the old punishing everyone for the fault of a few. So, don't do it. You don't have to place blame, of course. Just don't claim everyone to be responsible.
That JJ will not answer anymore is sad. When someone gives that level of service, it behooves everyone to respect that. Not everyone could.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Excuse me, but I find the following comment rather valid here: "What 'we' are you talking about?" Yourself and your pals? Or, as I believe, everyone on the forums?
None of us has the ability to stop someone else from posting.
Spraying the blame hose seems to be rather modern, sadly. That doesn't mean it's anything but the old punishing everyone for the fault of a few. So, don't do it. You don't have to place blame, of course. Just don't claim everyone to be responsible.
I am speaking of the forums collectively when I say we. And while no we can't stop someone from posting we can create an environment that they don't want to spend their spare time dealing with.
I call BS. Trying to get trolls and abrasive people to leave is time and effort wasted. Not to mention, it makes for a poor environment for everyone. The trolls thrive on abuse, the abrasive ones don't care. Again, what are we supposed to do about them? What do you claim we can do? HOW do we create that environment they don't like, preferably without making the boards a cesspit ourselves?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I call BS. Trying to get trolls and abrasive people to leave is time and effort wasted. Not to mention, it makes for a poor environment for everyone. The trolls thrive on abuse, the abrasive ones don't care. Again, what are we supposed to do about them? What do you claim we can do? HOW do we create that environment they don't like, preferably without making the boards a cesspit ourselves?
You ban them. No arguments. No engagement, just a simple reminder that the owner of the website makes the rules and can kick anyone they don't like at any time.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
At what point did I claim I had an answer. I pointing what based on my opinion led to the current state of the FAQ. Your taking offense to this like I'm preaching some magic 5 step program to fixing it and there really isn't a way to do it. So guess what, we probably aren't going to see more FAQs or even more of the hard questions answered. Probably even less so once we have Starfinder.
Honestly I'm not sure what your expecting of me here Sissyl, so please if there is something I can do let me know.
WJS: The mods could do that. All the common poster can do toward that end is flagging. Note that even banning bad people doesn't often help, since they get new accounts, so the mods' power in this is limited as well.
TH: Responsibility comes with power to do something about the problem. If you agree that most posters have no power to get rid of said trolls and abrasive people, do you also agree that this really isn't a situation where collective responsibility is appropriate or even possible?
I told you what I expected of you: Stop saying everyone on the boards is responsible.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Can we not get a thread derailment please. It's the weekend let's end it on a high note.
Sorry I wasn't intending offense there,
Can we not get a thread derailment please. It's the weekend let's end it on a high note.
Edit your right Max sorry.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
*Works with Max to push the train back in place*
Thank you, Talonhawke.
Sometimes, I miss 2e D&D, but then I crack open the books and recognize the problem. A lot of stuff there is so flavorful and interesting, but trying to balance it all? Doesn't work very well.
Thank you, Talonhawke.
Your welcome Sissyl. I had to remind myself of some recent **** I dealt with as far as generalizations recently.
2nd edition was an ugly hack put on top of 1st, which was the mother of all ugly hacks. Admittedly, they did try to streamline it, but to not much avail. That said, that system had some pretty magnificent sourcebooks.
My grievance of the day: there's no 5th edition Dark Sun or Planescape sourcebooks.
2e sourcebooks are amazing with a rules-light system, as long as you toss the power levels as scripted out the window and wing it to whatever's prettier.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Sometimes, I miss 2e D&D, but then I crack open the books and recognize the problem. A lot of stuff there is so flavorful and interesting, but trying to balance it all? Doesn't work very well.
I missed it so much, that in 2013 (give or take a year or so), I went back... I got so utterly disgusted with 3rd edition and Pathfinder, with their rules for almost every little detail.
Second edition may have its warts, but to me, it's a beautiful system, as it gives me ample room to breathe.
YMMV of course. :-)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, everything 2e was still better than the Dragonlance Adventures hardcover from late 1e.
|
Well, everything 2e was still better than the Dragonlance Adventures hardcover from late 1e.
I'm trying to remember if I have that one. Not at home right now to check the book shelf. I remember the book, but I never did look through it or use it at all. My group never played Dragonlance at all.
I never did see 2nd edition. My group had so much invested in 1e books that we just shrugged off 2e when it came out, like "Why bother with a new version?" Instead, when we wanted new stuff, we tried other games. We were into Star Frontiers, West End's original Star Wars RPG, and Shadowrun back when 2e was new.
|
|
I never did see 2nd edition. My group had so much invested in 1e books that we just shrugged off 2e when it came out, like "Why bother with a new version?"
Second edition really didn't bring in a whole lot that was new, rules-wise - I mean, while most people associate THAC0 for example, with 2nd edition, it was actually introduced in 1st edition as an "official" game mechanic in 1986 with the "Dungeoneer's Survival Guide" (1983, if you count the Module "UK2 - The Sentinel").
Even Specialist Wizards were introduced with 1st edition. They appeared in the 1988 Forgotten Realms supplement "FR6 - Dreams of the Red Wizards".
So yeah, 2nd edition was, for the most part, just a streamlined version of 1st edition (with a few exceptions, of course).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My grievance of the day: there's no 5th edition Dark Sun or Planescape sourcebooks.
I dont care for 5th ed. To me, it's Basic set.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Edit your right Max sorry.
No worries Max though Sissyl could have been more diplomatic in her response to you imo.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My grievance of the day: there's no 5th edition Dark Sun or Planescape sourcebooks.I dont care for 5th ed. To me, it's Basic set.
I haven't played 4th or 5th ed, but I like Pathfinder much better. I enjoy playing games with a certain degree of complexity.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No worries Max though Sissyl could have been more diplomatic in her response to you imo.
Edit your right Max sorry.
Please don't derail the thread, Max.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My grievance of the day: there's no 5th edition Dark Sun or Planescape sourcebooks.
loved both settings, so I guess my grievance is not having a complete set, of 2nd books, of both settings.