Air Your Grievances


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Sovereign Court

oh jeez 15th level and 5 mythic? I think you sell yourself short Cal. I can barely handle 12th level no mythic!


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Pan wrote:
oh jeez 15th level and 5 mythic? I think you sell yourself short Cal. I can barely handle 12th level no mythic!

heh, Thanks, Pan. But after talking with this guy I've learned there's so much I've not used to the advantage in combat. That probably explains why they're tiers are this high. They defeat the enemies too easily. Normally I have 4 to 5 players, which I can handle pretty easily, but I have 3 "guest" players coming over 2 hours from different cities to play, so I'll have 8 mythic players to contend with.

Liberty's Edge

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To second Pan it's not just you DMCal. I am both player and Dm. Their is a lot of stuff to remember in terms of rules. I don't know it all. With bonuses not stacking in Pathfinder it makes a DM job just that more difficult.

Better to be a good DM who does not know all the rules. Instead of a bad one who knows all the rules.


I think, just use the highest bonus till that lapses, then activate the next. This is why adventurers try for the quick kill, so the bad guy(or thing) can't use up all the charged items.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's why I always have one guy dancing in the background using wand charges and chugging potions.


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I finally got my service to remove Norton from my bill. A year ago when I tried to change to a more advanced version of Norton about a year ago and Norton would only remove the old program. They denied getting the order for the new service. The computer completely froze up till I bought a cheaper and better anti virus at Walmart. I had to call customer service and talk to a person, and I had to convince them I didn't want a free month of Norton. I was afraid they would remove my current anti virus and give me nothing again.

I hate when someone is too arrogant to correct their own mistakes.


Goth Guru wrote:

I finally got my service to remove Norton from my bill. A year ago when I tried to change to a more advanced version of Norton about a year ago and Norton would only remove the old program. They denied getting the order for the new service. The computer completely froze up till I bought a cheaper and better anti virus at Walmart. I had to call customer service and talk to a person, and I had to convince them I didn't want a free month of Norton. I was afraid they would remove my current anti virus and give me nothing again.

I hate when someone is too arrogant to correct their own mistakes.

I use Microsoft Security Essentials. Free and really good at catching stuff. You can set it scan daily, weekly, or monthly. I use Malware Bytes as a backup, just in case something does slip through.


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Malware bytes is what I bought at Walmarts.
I also have the Quick clean external virus remover.


I have a GM who bought John Wick's Dirty GM's book and intends to use what's inside... John Wick is one wicked rotten guy (though he made good games) and I'm thinking of ending my relationship with that GM, even though I'm one of his oldest friends.


Klorox wrote:
I have a GM who bought John Wick's Dirty GM's book and intends to use what's inside... John Wick is one wicked rotten guy (though he made good games) and I'm thinking of ending my relationship with that GM, even though I'm one of his oldest friends.

Wick and his ideas are a bit kooky, as he tends to come at the art of GM'ing from the exact opposite direction, compare to what most people are use too.I actually tend to see most of his "advise" as interesting as it often way out there, and can provide a juxtaposition to my own ideas. But I fully admit that he is a grating personality, that's best taking in small doses.

Lastly I would hope that your friend doesn't flip his GM'ing style completely just from read a bit of Wicks...err...Wickisissims. It's always a good idea to look for new inspiration, but it's very rare, that someone just throws out their entire style of play, after reading a single book. Who knows? maybe your friend will even think the book's a piece of garbage ^^.


John Wick sounds familiar but I don't wxactly know for what.
I definitely not know his «Dirty GM»
Was he involved in old WoD or something?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wasn't it a lame Keanu Reeves movie...


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All of the above ^^.

Grand Lodge

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Kileanna wrote:
Was he involved in old WoD or something?

He worked for the "Alderac Entertainment Group" and worked on the "7th Sea" & "Legend of the Five Rings" RPGs.


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Kjeldorn wrote:
Klorox wrote:
I have a GM who bought John Wick's Dirty GM's book and intends to use what's inside... John Wick is one wicked rotten guy (though he made good games) and I'm thinking of ending my relationship with that GM, even though I'm one of his oldest friends.

Wick and his ideas are a bit kooky, as he tends to come at the art of GM'ing from the exact opposite direction, compare to what most people are use too.I actually tend to see most of his "advise" as interesting as it often way out there, and can provide a juxtaposition to my own ideas. But I fully admit that he is a grating personality, that's best taking in small doses.

Lastly I would hope that your friend doesn't flip his GM'ing style completely just from read a bit of Wicks...err...Wickisissims. It's always a good idea to look for new inspiration, but it's very rare, that someone just throws out their entire style of play, after reading a single book. Who knows? maybe your friend will even think the book's a piece of garbage ^^.

New grievance. I ought to do a better job, re-reading my posts for spelling errors and/or grammatical errors, when I'm on my smartphone....


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Talonhawke wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:


I once created a changeling with MPD.
Not a real thing.
I'm a bit confused. That link seems to suggest it is a real thing, it's just that it's been renamed (from Multiple Personality Disorder to Dissociative Identity Disorder). There isn't any suggestion that the phenomenon doesn't actually happen is there?
No, I'm just saying that "Multiple Personality Disorder" isn't a real term anymore. It's also a highly sensationalized term, so the sooner we leave it behind, the better.

It is in Pathfinder!

Sing it with me, kids:

Pathfinder is not very good.

In fact, sometimes it is very bad. Like our lovable, slightly bigoted aunt who runs great games but occasionally says some really weird stuff about how "really, the people fighting the colonials were just as bad as the colonials", or "boy, wouldn't it be fun if we referenced actual mental illnesses while describing our sensationalized 'insanity'?"

We're trying to wean her off that stuff. It's just taking time, and there's a lot of backlog to sift through.

Fromper wrote:
I don't believe you. Nobody liked Scrappy. Not even kids.

Naw, friend, Scrappy was great. He was a little plucky dog. Lots of kids liked that. We like to root for the underdog, remember.


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Kobold Cleaver wrote:

We like to root for the underdog, remember.

True. But mostly because The B@#!$@%! Surfers did the theme song


This was not the song I was expecting to hear connected to "Underdog".


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It was one of my favorite cartoons as a young lad.


Kileanna wrote:

John Wick sounds familiar but I don't wxactly know for what.

I definitely not know his «Dirty GM»
Was he involved in old WoD or something?

John Wick is the bright mind behind such games as Legends of the 5 Rings, or 7th Sea.

His Dirty GM books are collections of really dirty GM tricks and methods... and he means it: I've heard of a module he wrote for L5R that you simply could not come out of alive and with your honour (or just alive period)... at least I've heard from the GM who ran it that it was stacked for TPK by seppuku.

So I'm rather shocked that a GM I know would want to read and use that stuff, especially after already (but I'm not sure he even noticed)ruined the game for me (my character is just not aware yet, he'll go suicidal) and the player of the lady he loves by making their union just about an impossibility. He calls it 'drama', I call it dirty GMing, and if he goes to a master of that for advice, I'm not sure I want to play with him anymore.


Klorox wrote:
So I'm rather shocked that a GM I know would want to read and use that stuff, especially after already (but I'm not sure he even noticed)ruined the game for me (my character is just not aware yet, he'll go suicidal) and the player of the lady he loves by making their union just about an impossibility. He calls it 'drama', I call it dirty GMing, and if he goes to a master of that for advice, I'm not sure I want to play with him anymore.

I smell an interesting story* here, one you would like to share?

*the bolded part that is.


Kjeldorn wrote:
Klorox wrote:
So I'm rather shocked that a GM I know would want to read and use that stuff, especially after already (but I'm not sure he even noticed)ruined the game for me (my character is just not aware yet, he'll go suicidal) and the player of the lady he loves by making their union just about an impossibility. He calls it 'drama', I call it dirty GMing, and if he goes to a master of that for advice, I'm not sure I want to play with him anymore.

I smell an interesting story* here, one you would like to share?

*the bolded part that is.

+1 to that


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That's the thing I don't get. Being the GM means you already have the power to utterly destroy any progress the PCs make, at any time, without in-game consequence. Making things scary-terrible for the PCs is not hard at all, or even clever. Why bother, unless it makes for excellent story?

Scarab Sages

We finally got back to our game after weeks of interruptions from illnesses and family obligations... and next week I'm out of town, and most of May the couple who host the games aren't available. We just leveled up to 5th. I have no idea how long it will be before we reach 6th level. Sigh.


Kileanna wrote:
Kjeldorn wrote:
Klorox wrote:
So I'm rather shocked that a GM I know would want to read and use that stuff, especially after already (but I'm not sure he even noticed)ruined the game for me (my character is just not aware yet, he'll go suicidal) and the player of the lady he loves by making their union just about an impossibility. He calls it 'drama', I call it dirty GMing, and if he goes to a master of that for advice, I'm not sure I want to play with him anymore.

I smell an interesting story* here, one you would like to share?

*the bolded part that is.

+1 to that

The story is actually rather short. My character was created with the trait of being madly in love... when a guy who wasn't initially scheduled joined the game, the GM gave him my character's beloved to play... I'm lucky he's a good friend, she doesn't play too hard to get.

Next event, we play in a very mystical version of Rokugan, and so dreams are often taken VERY seriously... So the GM sent her a dream in which she was a widow of a guy who is not named, but who responds to my character's general description... only way to beat the prophecy is to never wed a guy answering the description, ergo, no she won't let me marry her.
He (the player) is not happy with it, and the day my own character realises that, he's stepping on a professional duellist's toes and calling him a parasite.


I don't know if he did it with that outcome in mind but that's so bad. I feel sorry for your character.

I have been into next to impossible love situations in game and you always want the character to be able to make it possible (I've never been a romantic but as the time goes by I guess I'm developing a soft spot). I've been there before (Kileanna -the character- is probably my most recent example).

If the GM is not actively trying to screw your relationship, just to make it a bit more difficult, maybe you still can do it.


Too late I'm afraid, my character's beloved does not want him dead, so she's already dead set to beat the prophecy, and I've already said how. :(


Why not allow the prophecy to take place?

Yes, that means your PC dies, and leaves her a widow.

But couldn't that happen in old age?


1) Zero attempt at roleplay

2) Telling other players out of character what their player should be doing in character (aka the nightmare metagamer!)


Wrong John Silver wrote:

Why not allow the prophecy to take place?

Yes, that means your PC dies, and leaves her a widow.

But couldn't that happen in old age?

Nope, the dream had her young and pregnant after her husband's death... note, My character would not mind dying young so he can fulfill his love... but She is set not to let that happen.


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doc roc wrote:

1) Zero attempt at roleplay

2) Telling other players out of character what their player should be doing in character (aka the nightmare metagamer!)

Uh, what, are you telling your 2 cents in my stories or voicing a totally separate grievance?

In the first case, care to amplify?
in the second, my deepest condolences.


Wrong John Silver wrote:
That's the thing I don't get. Being the GM means you already have the power to utterly destroy any progress the PCs make, at any time, without in-game consequence. Making things scary-terrible for the PCs is not hard at all, or even clever. Why bother, unless it makes for excellent story?

I haven't the slightest idea, I don't see how making my Kanemoto's love impossible makes for a great story, but he says it adds 'drama'... bugger drama.


Yea I can kind of understand you, when you saying that the Gm is bringing in drama, where it might no be appropriate. Especially if both you and the other player finds this use of your characters traits problematic. Or the way that your GM is using your character's trait(s) wasn't really how you, or the other player, had imagined the trait(s) would be used, and now it feels more like he is using those traits as a way to force your character(s) in a certain direction.

I kind of feel like, the GM's problem here, is that he has forgotten one of his primary duties as a GM. He is suppose to present your characters, with a problem/challenge/obstacle that represents an opportunity for change in those characters. This is always an balancing act, on one hand you are required to challenge the players, give them tough fights, dangerous adversaries and make them ponder their characters choices, lives and fates. On the other hand you can't go making every choice, that a character makes a potential deathtrap, not every trait or background story is another bull's-eye on the character's back, for the GM, to take pot-shots at all the time.

As for the prophecy problem in your game...I'm not really sure what the best option is, but maybe I can give you a few ideas. Although I'm a bit rusty on my L5R lore and rules.

1. Platonic approach:
Love your sweet Kanemoto, but never touch her (or at least don't impregnate her). By the stipulations of the dream, then you should survive (unless someone or something else impregnates her).

2. The Dream is a lie (ie call the GM's bluff).
Convince your love, that it better to try and fight fate (with your love), then never to love at all. When the day arrives and nothing happens at all, then live happily till the end.

3.We are all born to die, Sir:
Pick the largest, baddest enemy in reach (bonus point if its a corrupt daimyo) and attempt to murder your way to him (both you and Kanemoto preferably) to take his head and make sweet love, with Kanemoto, on his broken corpse, before his retains come for you both.

4.Congratulations its twins!:
You have a twin brother, who shares your love for Kanemoto. It very unlikely but hey it fantasy roleplaying game.

5. The Reptilans are coming!:
Someone or something is going to try and replace you in the near future, taking over your life, house and wife. Luckily the bastard gets was coming to him if the dreams true...unfortunately you'll be dead too.

6....can't really think of any more right now, might get back later.


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The obvious solution is to go to the GM and player and say, "Guys, it's important to me that my character have a chance to fulfill his arc, and that means that I'm not having fun right now. Can we work together to make a story we'll all enjoy?"

If the GM isn't willing to do that, it's a sign they don't care about your enjoyment, and you're probably better off without them.


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The curious thing from stories about tragedy, loss and defeat are great from a literary point of view, but not always from a roleplaying point of view.
Even if we like stories without a happy ending when you play a character you are making an effort to do things right, from a mechanic or a roleplaying point of view. You empathize with your character and live his life in a way. So having your character's life screwed is not as cool as seeing a random character screwed on a novel or a movie, no matter how much you like that character.

I've seen a lot of GMs trying to translate stories from novels to a game and totally failing because what works in a novel doesn't always work in a game.

Also, knowing how much a GM can push a PC is an art that requires knowing both the character and the player. What a player can take as an interesting thing another can take it as GM dickery.

As a general rule, when something is the most important thing to a character (a person, a goal, etc.) I try to involve it in the story to make it relevant but not to permanently destroy that thing (killing the significative one, making the love impossible, having the goal being fulfilled by another, etc.)

Anyway, Klorox, I think it might seem like impossible love right now, but I think there can be ways. If your GM wasn't willing to screw your character he's probably finding a way or expecting that you do.


The thing is, if dreams are considered relevant, then they will also be used as weapons. It is quite possible they were an attack on your character. A way to get past the prophecy is to no longer fit your description in the dream. Reincarnate would to the trick for you. So would raise dead if the dream actually comes true. Lateral thinking is your friend.


Depending on what rules he is using for L5R resurrections might not be an option.


Disguise? Polymorph? The dream doesn't show the death, so even disappearing for a while and faking your death might work. And so on.


I've played L5R with D10 rules and it's a pretty low magic setting. I liked it but it's much more limited magic wise than other settings.


The description said it was a shugenja... the only solution would be for me to die, be reincarnated, and come back 15 years later when my new incarnation (not magic using) was of age... she would not be too old by then, and I'd have the kharmic link to her.

I don't know what the GM had in mind, but he REALLY screwed us players on that one... then again, the player who chose a Dark Fate as his disadvantage dreamed he was going to murder the Emperor...
I got 'lucky', I just got a call for help from my kid sister who fumbled a magical experiment and got trapped in the Land of Dreams... now I just have to find vigorous volunteers to make babies to the dryads in the grove where I can open the gate to that place... Oh the favours I'll be owing.

Grand Lodge

Klorox wrote:
I don't know what the GM had in mind, but he REALLY screwed us players on that one...

The example you give that your GM used is pretty much the kind of stuff found in "Play Dirty". However, if your GM is to be a true student of what Mr. Wick wrote in "Play Dirty", he will have an "escape" for your character (not necessarily a "Happily Ever After" escape, but an escape non-the-less).

Mr. Wick compares the "teachings" in his book like that of the first "Die Hard" movie, where the main character is beaten to a bloody pulp, and yet always manages to get up, shake the dust off, and go on fighting... And in the end, win the day.

Obviously, that style is not for everyone, but like I said, if your GM wishes to be a "true" student of Mr. Wick, he is not doing this to your character out of malice. So perhaps pulling him aside (and in private) and talking to him about your feelings, might change things, especially if he is as you said, one of your oldest friends.


Pan wrote:
stormcrow27 wrote:
I'm tired of smartphones being a substitution for face to face contact...
Be like me and not have one :)

Sadly I can't due to work. Of course, an IT guy complaining about technology lessening face to face contact is somewhat ironic, but I'm odd that way. As for newspapers, you have to live in a city that even produces physical ones anymore. My local one closed up their print shop 3 years ago and the building is going down. Oh well, on to reading more forum posts.


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Hmm. Looking at some of the ideas, Play Dirty is the old change the narrative trick for a greater challenge and potentially a greater reward, at the unknown cost and cause of player frustration. I can see how that could anger some people. Some of my players simply kill themselves from their own ignorance and arrogance, rather then using that type of methodology myself, but I've done some of that in the past to enhance the game style as the situation called for it. Part of that is also using older and unknown sources for antagonists in different systems, in addition to mechanical and roleplaying setups. 3.5 and older editions of D&D have a ton of that lying around that has never seen the light of day in PF.


Klorox wrote:
Wrong John Silver wrote:
That's the thing I don't get. Being the GM means you already have the power to utterly destroy any progress the PCs make, at any time, without in-game consequence. Making things scary-terrible for the PCs is not hard at all, or even clever. Why bother, unless it makes for excellent story?
I haven't the slightest idea, I don't see how making my Kanemoto's love impossible makes for a great story, but he says it adds 'drama'... bugger drama.

"she" can become pregnant from her love, then marry the duelist to keep him from dueling your character. Enter a min maxes duelist, PC or NPC, just very munchkin. That character just wants kill the duelist and put another "notch" in their weapon's handle.

"What a twist!"


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There was a topic about the consequences for an obscene act for a PC, and I couldn't report it unless I opened and read pert of it. I had to hide it. It did not belong in homebrew, or anywhere else for that matter. You want consequences? Cancel the whole campaign and start a new one without that player!


Yeah, I couldn't finish it, either.


The one about the guy who ate a tax collector? Yes, it's crazy stuff.

Or the one who made a «service» to a wizard? Even more crazy.


Goth Guru wrote:
There was a topic about the consequences for an obscene act for a PC, and I couldn't report it unless I opened and read pert of it. I had to hide it. It did not belong in homebrew, or anywhere else for that matter. You want consequences? Cancel the whole campaign and start a new one without that player!

I had to go find the thread just to see what you were talking about, and really I was disappointed. I was expecting more than just a player getting extra exp for consensual male on male activities when the male on male was the GMs idea in the first place and the player didn't even hesitate.

The one suggestion that the exp was for the fact that the player didn't even perform the service, that they were dominated/made to forget instead to commit crimes and the exp came from those activities was actually rather clever.


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I have no idea what everyone else is talking about right now

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