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Matt Filla wrote:
Cellion wrote:
Malazan feels a lot like a mid-level sandbox D&D campaign translated into book form

That's pretty much exactly what it actually is.

I read the 10 main series Malazan books a couple of years ago in one straight shot. It was work, but it was rewarding work.

I had the same feeling as well. It's a lot to read imo. Yet unlike Robert Jordan thse series goes somewhere and does not get bogged down in countless minor character and uneccesary description. Don't get me wrong I enjoyed the Wheel of time and books 1-5 were great imo. Books 6-9 just went nowhere imo. The author begins spending too much time on secondary and even tertiary characters. I'm not sure if it was because the publisher told him to do it. Or Jordan was having trouble coming up with what to write. Yet books 10 and onewards it picked up the pace.

I can't blame them for doing a full reboot. It's been years since the last edition was print. Unlike Pathfinder which had may 3.5. fans to draw from. Torg has fans yet nowhere near that number imo. Certainly not enough to a simple rehash with better production values and new cover/interior art. While Torg was fun it did have issues which needed to fixed. As well when the first version was in print. Their was no internet or at the very least access to it was nothing like we have now. I imagine the new owners are going to have to make a division specifically for keeping track of player feedback. As for Orrosh I see what they tried to do with that Cosm but like Ravenloft great place to visit only for a few seconds. Not so great to adventure in imo.

Thanks for the recommendation Smilodan. I also second and recommendation of the Codex Alera series as well. Another one for fans of historical fiction. Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

One of the things I wished for the previous version of Torg was that the internet and twitter existed. Since the publishers wanted player to contribute to the storyline. Now we have both with a Twitter feed written in the style of it having happened.

The Near Now.

Except of course for the Canada Post ad lol. "Edeinos sweeping across the streets...Ship your online purchases directly to a post office that works on your schedule with FlexDelivery " lol

There is a chance Merlyn could come back. Don't forget about the Lazarus Pits. If anyone could plan ahead to be brought to life in one it's Merlyn.

thejeff wrote:

Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards if you're interested in something more like a caper movie than the typical save-the-world-from-evil epic.

I recommend this as well. Good some dark elements to it. As well set in a fantasy version of Venice.

_ MALAZAN I enjoyed it as well. Though it's too be taken in small doses imo. As it's ten very large (between 900-1000 pages) books. Unless one is the type to read a entire series in one sitting it's a bit much.

-David Eddings I recommend the BELGARIAD and to a lesser extent the Malloreon. I never read the others except for the first and second book of the Dreamers series. Stay the hell away from it. It was a poor attempt by David Eddings to rehash the Belgariad complete with the same characters hoping his fanbase would not notice. Having read the first two series it was a huge slap in the face.

SmiloDan wrote:

Kushiel's Dart by Jacqueline Carey is the first book of three trilogies. A low magic, barely historical fiction. She also has a fun subversive re-telling of LotR from the PoV of not-quite "Sauron."

I recommend this series as well with the caveat that it should be read by someone who is 16+ years old. I say this because their are some very explicit sex scenes. It's not erotica it's not something kids should be reading. The main character if I'm not mistaken is trained both as a spy to learn secrets and the art of sex. Why does two things. One tends to tell more secrets to someone who they sleep with. At least in that universe.

-Jack Whyte Dream of Eagles series.

It's strange that they shelve this series usually under fantasy. It comes across more as historical fiction than anything else imo. I began reading this after seeing it recommended by a poster here. Three books into the series. Nothing that says it should be in the fantasy section imo. The author imo has a style that both makes the story move along at a fast pace as well as giving a birds eye view of the setting. The first book is set at the twilight of the Roman Empire. Where two of main characters notice a trend of the Roman slowly dying off. Think if someone approached you and said " in 50-100 years Canada/USA will fall and disappear from the map leaving only crumbling ruins, forgotten knowledge and a new dark age". I'm sure the first response from myself and others here would be "yeah right your nuts etc".

The story is two main characters and other characters slowly witnessing the decline and slow fall of the Roman Empire and what they do. A good example in the story is that Roam armies when they come to a stop usually would build forticications to enhance the defence of the overall camp. Eventually they stop. The common refuses to do it. Those in charge are both too weak and scared to do anything about it with good chances of getting stabbed by their own soldiers. The Roman empire is written as slowly withdrawing their forces closer to home leaving everyone else defenceless and the roads and infrastructure unmaintained.

-The Accursed Kings translasted from French as Les Rois Maudits is what George RR Martin used as inspiration for his Game of Thrones series. Another historical fiction series I'm surprised no one has done a English TV series out of it.

atheral wrote:

I would suggest Memory Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams,

I recommend these as well. Though Tad Williams can be very wordy and dense in his writing. Something that can be said in two sentences to a paragraph ends up being 2-3 paragraphs.

atheral wrote:

as well as The Chronicles of the Black Company by Glen Cook, and the Elric Books by Michael Moorcock.

Recommended as well though very grim and dark fantasy imo. The world the novels are set in is not a very nice place to be and once you join the Black Company there is only one way to leave...feet first. I also recommend the D20 sourcebook from Green Ronin. Get it in PDF though because the prices for used online are insane imo.

MMCJawa wrote:

Kingkiller Chronicles is not too bad...I enjoyed the books so far, although yeah it's not complete.

The first was excellent. The second was good though suffers from being wordy for the sake of it. I enjoyed the story felt that the authors was spending too much time on what should have been a minor plot point with minor characters imo.

Sword of Truth as others have said starts out real well then the writing gets progressively worse. With the ending making me go "what..what the hell just happened. What did I read". As the series progresses the main character and general tone of the story become too preachy and moralistic at least for my tastes. Good conquers all. Love will always win out in the end etc. He also makes tow mistakes imo. One is being the king of recap. Not every books needs a recap imo. Goodkind does it in spades. More importantly he gives the main character ultimate power than takes it away.

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To be fair they said they would attempt to keep the amount of rules bloat to a minimum. They never promised to not release new rules. I don't understand how anyone could truly believe a rpg company would never release new material. It reminds of the shock and dismay of the fanbase when Wotc released 4E. Yet they somehow totally forget how early 3.5. was released on the heels of third edition. To myself and my gaming group it was a given a new edition was in the works. The only thing we were not sure about was when.

As for older APs being compiled into a updated hardcover. I never received the impression that they never planned to release more. They played it smart, waited for the older versions to go out of print and then release the updated hardback. Again I don't understand the surprise on them updating Curse of The Crimson Throne. If they updated Runelords again it's a given they plan to do other Aps. I hope to see a compiled Kingmaker hardcover.

Paizo really should no longer make anymore promises along the lines of " We are going to try and keep bloat down" or "Rise of the runelords is the only Ap that will be compiled and updated into a Hardcover" imo. The part about bloat should have never been promised let alone even Some fans seem to take it to heart. That being said Paizo is a business first. If it's in their best interests to make more and more new material. To me as a observer looking in the demand is there. Why the hell not. Same thing with compiling older Aps or older material into hardcovers. Again why not.

I don't purchase every book from Paizo. I'm not forced to. I want a new edition of Pathfinder that fixes the current issues with system. It's probably never going to happen. At the same time I'm not going to accuse Paizo of lying to me because the current version imo ports over the same issues from 3.5. Idid my own research. I spoke with some friends who play it and decided to buy it anyway. I was not lied to. It's like buying a car with standard transmission when wanting automatic then blaming the seller for lying to you even when the seller told you over and over that the car had a standard transmission.

I'm looking forward to a more political style AP though that kind of AP needs the right group and players.

In the Wrath of the Righteous two their were two outcomes. If the players were successful they won a major victory for the good guys. If they lost the Worldwound expanded quite significantly.

At the same time we keep hearing that Taldor is a kingdom on the decline. It's only a matter before the whole house of cards topples. With other kingdoms waiting for it to happen. It only makes sense that eventual Taldor either falls and recovers or falls never to recover. As well no one is forced to use any material. Don't like the timeline moving forward don't use it.

FYI and off topic I also suggest not buying the new Torg rpg if that is the case. One of the things West End Games did when they owned the rights. Is build new material around what happened in home games. Some modules actually had a form one could fill out and send by mail detailing the progress of the party in the modules and what they did. If for example a important npc to the setting was defeated and they received enough feedback from fans that their players defeated the main npc. Offically that npc was defeated. With the internet and how many fans liked actually sending feedback with the previous edition of Torg. I don't see it being different for the new version.

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The Raven Black wrote:

The mechanic just jumped at the opportunity to get back to something familiar (tinker with the ship) and she is just ignoring all the rest. Catastrophe should shortly follow, likely because they will stop since she did not tell them not to

Agreed and seconded. It's not helped that the mechanic is both in denial and trying to do the adult version of "something bad is happening I need to hide under the covers". Hoping that the situation will improve by hiding and because being the captain is no fun anymore acting like everything is good.

The only other issue I have heard with Mythic characters is that Mythic Creatures/npcs as written don't scale properly with the damage output of player characters. So may require reworking by the DM.

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thejeff wrote:

Please. This is exactly what happens when you put Scotty in command of the Enterprise.

Last time I checked Scotty never knocked out Kirk over a personal disagreement. Or was oblivious to the what was happening around her. The mechanic is acting like she is still in control of the situation. Clearly the character is not. I'm wondering what the hell the rest of the crew is doing. It's obvious Andi is in denial yet the follow her. It's not even so much about the character jury rigging the engines. So much that she has no clue (or at least to me) what she is doing. As well Andi does not seem to do well with a changing situation imo.

Here is a funny clip from the original Star Trek.

Declaring a Mutiny.

To the Op let me clarify.

Expect Mythic characters to do a lot more than the average character. What you see in the core yet at a higher level of power. More AC, damage, etc. There is a whole section on Mythic spells in the Mythic Adventures.

To give you a idea here is the spell Terraform


This is the type pf things to expect a Mythic character to do. A high level character can make a desert into a paradise for two weeks. If a DM is unused to running Mythic rules can break a campaign.

Mythic characters should be doing much more in terms of damage or just about anything else compared to regular characters imo. Or to put it another way what gets written down as a legend. The Cleric who fed his party. Or the one that fed a entire army.

My advice take it as it is. As Mythic characters are more powerful by default. Or restart another campaign at lower levels.

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I'm fully expecting the mechanic to lose it when she realizes what a mess of things she has done. Or worse blame it on the captain. Not to mention worst person to put in charge of any situation imo. "Maybe if I tamper with the engines with a untried theory that might work..yeah"

Agreed and seconded with Kileanna. It felt like almost every other Kender was a Tasselhoff clone. With race imo being collectively portrayed like Tasslehoff.

It's not that Kender are bad. The creation of the race came about for imo so very poor reasons imo. The authors of the Dragonlance books disliked having a class that stole items. So they made a race thst stole stuff only to return items when asked. Except in the novels they came across as a race of childish kleptomaniacs.

While also being poorly written both by Weish and Hickman as well as secondary author writing on the Dragonlance universe.

(Kender removes belt pouch from unsuspecting victim and get caught)

Victim " stop thief"

Kender " I'm not a thief it fell into my pouches"

And so on. With players playing them as poorly as Paladin. At least a thief is honest so go speak in intentions so to speak.

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Talonhawke wrote:

Edit your right Max sorry.

No worries Max though Sissyl could have been more diplomatic in her response to you imo.

I would like to see less feats. Or at the very least less +1 feats. We have too many of those imo. For all that's holy please don't include something like this

http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/techsmith.shtm l

What I mean is don't make constructs available to players so nerfed. I played the above prestige class and I think I had to be 10th or was it 12 th level or higher to get that class. The gondsman class feature was so badly nerfed. The upgrades for it so pitiful it was not worth taking imo. My Dm allowed me to change classes when the Gondsman was destroyed by a pit trip. I'm not saying offer broken options. Just make sure the crunch matches the fluff.

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Can we not get a thread derailment please. It's the weekend let's end it on a high note.

My theory is that Aida is a magical version or non-magical version of a Super-Adaptoid. I was impressed with the actress performance just not a fan of Aida Glenn Close Fatal attraction character turn.

I would recommend against recommending Talisman to anyone. Not because of any dislike. Simply because Fantasy Flight lost the rights to publish it so whoever acquires the IP may do a new edition which may or may not be compitable with the current edition.

It makes me wonder if the writers of the show may have written themselves into a corner. Time travel stories are a tricky element to write about.

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Inspired possibly by the Hobbit. Smaug sleeping on his coins would definitely be something to inspire the devs of the original version of D&D.

While I'm glad L5R will live on i just dont get AEG. Wete the rpg lines doing so badly. I'm also not too enthusiastic anout FFG acquiring the IP. The last thing I want to see is whst theu did with the 40K rog line. Multiple core books that were 90% rehashed, recycled materials with 20% or more new material.

Im going to give it a chance to be fair if it follows the same business model I'm not interested.

Any ETA on a reprint if any of the book?

Finished reading Volume 1 and 2 of the Kingkiller Chronicles on the recommendation of a poster here. I enjoyed the first book. The second I had more trouble with. At one point the main character is sent to track down bandits. The author seemed to take forever to finish that particular point. Other than that I enjoyed and recommend both.

Now Im starting the Skystone by Jack Whyte.

Just your average clone wrote:

Overall, he may be a terrible character by measures beyond my control, but he is too fun to play for me to ever consider making another character to replace him.

I have disagree again. I think it's no so much a terrible character so much as the dice in terms of saves working against you. Now if you played the Mesmerist as a Fighter using a Two Handed weapon. While ignoring to use the Hypnotic Stare and no Mesmerists trick then I would say a terrible character.

I see your point.

Yet their is a difference say in Poison Dusk cursed confused Fighter and With Malik Brawler. The first might be a liability at the table yet still is useful and has a decent background. The second builds a front line character. Yet the player decides to chose the worst way to play the character imo. I read up on the Brawler given how much the player supposedly "loved" his Pummeling style. Then decides to throw darts is a "WTH are you doing" at least at my gaming table.

A complete waste of the Brawler class imo. As well given the illustration would have opponents laughing at the Brawler. A big burly character throwing darts. If one is going to go ranged use Throwing Axes/Hammers It's like a big in a small car. To be fair if the player is new it's one thing. A experienced player doing that me is doing it on purpose to be a liability.

I guess I played in too many games where players would a Fighter take low Str and Con then complain that the player who does the opposite is a better Fighter.

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Gaming stores selling used rpgs at full retail. Granted 2E D&D matetial is still somewhat popular. Yet selling a used 2E boxed sets at 46$ is a rip-off imo. I might as well buy the PDF and print it out on my own. Then they wonder why their used 2E stuff is not selling as well as it could.

Chromantic Durgon <3 wrote:

See that person just doesn't make sense xD

EDIT: to be clear I'm referring to Malik the Mighty's pummelling dart buddy xD

I sometimes have to wonder if it's a person just trying to be disruptive at the table. Malilk example a person builds a Brawler then does the exact opposite of his build. Makes me wonder if it's done on purpose.

Talonhawke wrote:

Other than the acrobatics when it should have been reflex to start with since it was a trap.

Agreed but I'm not the DM. It's not like the DM was a jerk . Two opportunties to not fall into the pit. A skill check and Reflex save.

It's a interesting point Pan makes about dating and going out with those who may or may not like the hobby.

One of my friends married someone who disliked gaming. Kept his gaming a secret. Did not realize how much his wife disliked it. The type to not marry a gamer even if my buddy was the last man on Earth. When he told her they had two children. She was not happy and they are still together. He was lucky because it could have been much worse.

I could probably never marry or go out with someone who disliked my hobby. Espcially not "well I can change him types". My hobbies are my hobbies. If a person I may want to date or marry can't accept that. Then I prefer staying single.

Another thing I don't like. Those that do marry or date someone who is a gamer then don't like that they do it or claim they don't understand gaming. My response to that is "do you prefer I go out and get drunk. Maybe hit the strip joint while I'm at it. Is that easier to understand" Sorry the hobby is not rocket science.

Talonhawke wrote:

Gonna be honest that example is more an issues with the GM.
1. He didn't say he was rushing.

The player was rushing. I should have written it in my OP about that player. He liked to hog all the attention at the table and would rush from point A to Point B 99% of the time

Talonhawke wrote:

2. While acrobatics might be the right check the ground would have needed to be more than a little loose to force a check to go tumbling in.

It was very loose. It was in fact a trap but the DM was not going to point that out. The player because he liked the attention he would get from his antics tended to not listen to both players and DM. Would rush forward consequences be damned. Unless they turned out negative for his character.

Talonhawke wrote:

3. No reflex allowed to catch yourself?

I forgot to write that in as well. Reflex save allowed and failed.

Poison Dusk I don't think that was a weak character. Though not every group would want to have that character at their tables. If say for example you played him like he could not use his weapons at all times because of his curse then I would say he falls under the criteria of a weak character. Otherwise sound like a fun character.

I imagine everytime you used your longswords you heard this sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8lDYrvTILc

Players who refuse to listen to advice that may save their character from dying. A player just wanted to do things his way at the table. I mean everything. With the end result being that bad things happened to the character. Heavy armor wearing Cleric wanted to do acrobatics or climbing checks yet also wanted to always succeed at them. He almost never did. It became a joke at the table

DM: Their a pit in the ground with loss dirt around the edge of the it. What do you do?

Player X: I go take a look.

Myself or some other player: be careful the DM said their loose dirt you character may fall in plus your on the heavy side.

Player X: (Had a way of nodding to everyone who told him advice but it was his way of telling us he was ignoring us.) I'm going to take a look.

DM: Well between your rushing to the edge of the pit and the extra weight of your armor you start slide in make a Acrobatic checks to avoid falling in.

Player X (Wearing full Plate and having no ranks in Acrobatic falls down into the pit taking damage)

The same player had a bad tendency to throw fits as well at the table when that kind of thing happened trying to blame the group. When his character died because he had lost 3/4 of his hit points refused to listen to the healer of the group when asked if he needed to be healed. Began another hissy fit and I cut him off. I told him enough was enough and to stop the acting like a child at the table. He rushed ahead ignoring any attempts to stop him. He very and I mean very grudgingly admitted I had a point and calmed down. He improved somewhat at the table. It also helped that the DM was not on his side when his character died.

Players who have animal companions yet refuse to buff them or at the very least buy armor for them. Then sending them into combat and somehow expecting them not to be knocked out or killed off by npcs. Sure that may work at the first few levels. Not later on.

Players who build characters a certain way. Even if it ends up making the character performance suffer at the table. Yet it's everyone else fault for doing a better job with their character. Low Str Fighter expecting to lift, carry, hit and do as much damage as the player who built one with a higher Str. The player who expects opponents to have a hard time resisting his spells yet takes a low Int or Cha. That's fine build the character how one wants. Just don't blame everyone else for one poor choices during character creation.

Voss wrote:

This is not a terrible life choice. Pretty wise in many respects.

No it's not. As the spell gets better at higher levels. It's when the same player complained he was useless at the table. While also refusing to listen to any advice to help him overcome it. Players want to build what they want at the table. Yet also refuse to accept the responsability for poor choices. The example of the Two Handed fighter I gave. I make a character who is good at using two handed weapons. Ignore that in favor of grappling opponents. Without the right feats and attributes. Then blame everyone else but myself for my poor character choices.

Voss wrote:

This, on the other hand...

He learned the hard way. After his character was killed off by a magic missile wielding opponent.

There is a difference between rolling terrible stats and/or constantly rolling bad at a table. Nothing usually can be done for both. If the DM says "your attributes are what you role no exceptions" then one has to make the best of it. Same thing with bad rolls either have more than one D20 on hand or make the best of it once again.

It's another to play a character in such a way as to be useless at the table. A poster mentioned someone who made a character who specialized in tripping people with nets yet never used the net. Either that's a very convoluted character backstory. Someone unfamiliar with the rules. Or someone just being contrary for the sake of it. Why build the character very good at tripping people then deciding not to.

I build a Fighter who is really good with two handed weapons then decide to go around grappling every opponent. Which can work but I took no feats like Improved Grapple with a low Strength score.

In one game I was in their was a Wizard who refused to learn Magic Missle. Instead relying on True Strike and a Heavy Crossbow. I don't think he realized reloading a Heavy Crossbow takes a full round action. Cast spell, fire crossbow. Reload rinse and repeat. He also had low Dex so at higher levels he began to miss even with True Strike. Refused to even cast protection magic. What a waste of a Wizard.


I'm glad their is a new edition as while I am a fan of the rpg and transhumanism. It was at time somewhat more complex and crunchy. It loolks like all tjhe issues I have with the first edition will be fixed in the second edition.

Any questions about the new edition answered here to some extent:


I find animal companions to be somewhat overrated. I know all the guides on making Druids recommend taking the animal over a domain. One has to pick a animal that can fight, yet also able to take damage. Size for the first few levels is a issue as most places are too small for most animals. They can squeeze into a smaller place yet thst gives a -4 penalty to attack. It's also requires spells, items, armor if one wants it to survive ag higher levels.

With Wildshape as a class feature. As well as being able go spontaneously cast Summon Nature spells. It just seems kind of redundant imo. I always felt it made more sense for a Ranger to take one.

It's like their is a very huge disconnect betwern Marvel and the fans imo. One Marvel insists on making worse. Fans were not very happy and I can't blame them with Cap being a Hydta agent. Now they create a new retcon. That's going to go over really well with the fans.

Are they going to do something similar with the Iceman series. Or the same with Emma Frost. I was never that big a fan of Cap but sorry Marvel I'm not convinced no matter how many convenient official new retcons they publish.

Which makes me wonder how it will affect the TV shows and movies. They can't have hero Cap in the movies then villian in the stories. It would be confusing imo. I will give Marvel credit for trying to hide a retcon with a new story. A retcon is a retcon though no mattet how Marvel tries to hide it.

I think out of game I would ask the player to leave. He seems a bad fit for the group and seems to ignore any compromise. I would not throw him out because he read the AP. I'm both a player and DM. I have read every AP up until Giantslayer. I also am very good at playing dumb and acting like I never ever read the AP. I'm not out to ruin any DM campaign and tell a new DM that I have read the AP.

Now if he read the AP when he was not supposed to and it's generally bad form to do so as a player that's another strike against him imo.

Thanks for the suggestion Thomas. I was not expecting the villians to go against Hydra Cap I was hoping for some kind of dissension in the ranks. Then again Hydra Cap is going to expect that and make them a offer they cant refuse.

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Toilet Paper Wars.

The Plunger Strikes back.

Return of the Kileanna.

I don't hate it enough never to want to play in it. Or use it as a DM. I would like to see a AP where players bring some kind of stability to Galt.

Mind you the villians know Cap as a hero not a villain. So some might join his side with some working against him for all the times he captured them as a hero.

Galt is a country in a constant of anarchy. Yet somehow manages to function because of fantasy version of the KGB and soul sucking guillotines. Nothing productive is done when the government is getting removed (killed off) every couple of months. Yet somehow they are written as being a functioning state. Hence my calling it a Mary Sue. Did I mention none of the countries bordering it take advantage of the constant state of anarchy.

I don't like Galt. I find it to be the Mary Sue of the Golarion setting.

I find the design of Archetypes, feats, class features to be uneven. Either some are too powerful or not enough. The Geisha archetype to me is a good example.

I think they should do one more or two more bestiaries imo. The last thing they want to do is become like Wotc where by Monster Manual 5 it showed they were running out of ideas.

I dislike unprepared players at the table. They tend to slow the game down. Especially unprepared arcane and divine casters.

While errata is part of rpg too often Paizo goes to far making a ability that was not that powerful nerfed to being useless. While leaving stuff that needs errata untouched

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