Air Your Grievances

[Raynulf]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Yeah, it's poorly phrased, but I think it means "to realize it's a trap". Anyone can see the diamond. Only a skilled searcher can notice the pressure plate it's on.

Indeed. This also suggest, however, that when such a rune comes in line of sight (and before they potentially come in range), the GM should probably mention it, given that no Perception check is required to see the large, obvious rune, only recognise it for what it is - their doom.

At which point, the spotter either takes-10, or if not high on combat buffs they pause for 2 minutes and the spotter takes 20 and is pretty much guaranteed to either recognise it whether it is a symbol or not. And the only way to make it useful is to fill the dungeon with other mundane glyphs and runes all over the place, to try to inspire carelessness in the players... or just frustrate them enough to cut corners. Which feels a bit like trolling.

[Goth Guru]

You can put it inside of a book. If they can assume it's the litch's old spell book, it's not really trolling.

[Dire Elf]

I've never liked any of the 'symbol' spells. When do you ever have time for a player-character to cast one of those in advance? I suppose if I ever got to play a wizard who had a stronghold and she was really paranoid, but that kind of thing never seems to happen in our group. We're always on the move.

My own grievance today: another ice storm canceled our game session yesterday. I swear, we are -never- going to finish our Kingmaker campaign at this rate. We've been at it since 2012!

[Raynulf]

Not really a grievance so much as a disappointment: Demiplanes are underused.

The create demiplane series of spells are obscenely powerful, and, courtesy of magical economies and scrolls, also very available. And permanency is only 5th level, and thus much more available. The create demiplane series do not give a minimum caster level for the permanency, however the standard formula is 9 plus the spell level of the created effect.

In addition to scrolls, there is also the prospect of hiring spellcasters; A metropolis only goes to 8th by default, but there are several settlement traits/types that raise this to 9th.

If ownership of the place is key (the character wants to UMD their way to a personal resort), then scrolls are the way to go.

Scrolls and Permanency:

This is tricky, because despite the fact that Council of Thieves included scrolls of permanency, they should have to factor the material component cost of the target spell into the price of the scroll. For even create lesser demiplane that is 17,500gp. This is where the Kingdom Building rules come in, as there are multiple buildings which can add to the Base Value of a settlement;

• Alchemist (18 BP; +1,000 BV)
  
• Bank (28 BP; +2,000 BV)
  
• Black Market (50 BP; +2,000 BV)
  
• Guild Hall (34 BP; +1,000 BV)
  
• Inn (10 BP; +500 BV)
  
• Luxury Store (28 BP; +2,000 BV)
  
• Magic Shop (68 BP; +2,000 BV)
  
• Market (48 BP; +2,000 BV)
  
• Palace (108 BP; +1,000 BV)
  
• Pier (16 BP; +1,000 BV)
  
• Shop (8 BP; +500 BV)
  
• Stable (10 BP; +500 BV)
  
• Tavern (12 BP; +500 BV)
  
• Trade Shop (10 BP; +500 BV)
  
• Waterfront (90 BP; +4,000 BV)
  

One doesn't need to build the above (unless one is using the Kingdom building rules for a game, then you can), but in a metropolis with a number of the above, hitting the 19,500gp for a scroll of permanency that works on 7th level spells isn't so hard. Hitting the 24,750gp for one that works on create greater demiplane is a touch harder.

That being said, it is much easier to hire someone to cast permanency for you.

A scroll of create lesser demiplane costs 2,275gp and creates 39 10-ft.-cubes of featureless boring space (everything else needs to be created by other means). Said space costs 17,500gp to make permanent; or a rate of ~450gp per 10-ft. cube.

A scroll of create demiplane costs 3,000 gp and creates 150 10-ft.-cubes. For another 3,000gp it can be a lush landscape that can sustain 150 people. For another 150 gp it can have a physical structure, such as a grand villa. To make it permanent costs 20,000gp; or a rate of ~130gp per 10-ft.-cube.

A scroll of create greater demiplane costs 3,825gp and creates 340 20-ft.-cubes, aka 2,720 x 10-ft.-cubes. For another 3,825gp it can have a ginormous linked structure. For another 3,825gp it can be a paradise that supports up to 2,720 people. For another 3,825gp it can have a permanent two-way portal back to the material plane in a familiar location of your choosing. And so on. It can be made permanent for 22,500gp; or a rate of ~8gp per 10-ft. square.

Obviously, if at all possible, greater demiplane is the way to go.

Ramble on numbers aside...

Create demiplane lets the player (or GM) create fantastic and unique locations, or some incredible homes or strongholds. It requires high level casters to produce, but as long as such characters (*points at the "Spellcasting Services"*) exist, then it is not out of the realm of those with the wealth and will to see it made. And yet... I've never seen all that many of them. Which is a tad dissapointing.

[Pan]

Another two inches of snow in time for the a.m. commute. I spent 2.5 hours getting into the office....rest of team working from home and all meetings cancelled /facepalm

[Goth Guru]

Raynulf wrote:

Not really a grievance so much as a disappointment: Demiplanes are underused.

The create demiplane series of spells are obscenely powerful, and, courtesy of magical economies and scrolls, also very available. And permanency is only 5th level, and thus much more available. The create demiplane series do not give a minimum caster level for the permanency, however the standard formula is 9 plus the spell level of the created effect.

In addition to scrolls, there is also the prospect of hiring spellcasters; A metropolis only goes to 8th by default, but there are several settlement traits/types that raise this to 9th.

If ownership of the place is key (the character wants to UMD their way to a personal resort), then scrolls are the way to go.

** spoiler omitted **...

2 words,

Growth Potential.
It's been left to the GM to determine if the demiplane can be made to grow. I've come up with some homebrew solution, but in PFS you are boned.

[zainale]

my GM does not allow guns in his game. so no gunslingers. i to make a 6th lvl character. yet i am not allowed any magic items that a normal 6th lvl character might collect over their career of adventuring. because he wants to be the one to give out magical stuff that he wants us to have but is not useful to my character. its not like i am trying to bring game changing magical items in to the game. just stuff that will help my character out. my character has an 8 in strength. so i asked if i could have a Bag of Concealment to carry my stuff and would not even register as a magical item. so i wouldn't always be overburdened. he was like no but you can try to get a bag of holding or a muleback cord, both of which blare as magical items. both of which are inferior. i already had a bag of holding it got my first character killed because the wizard wanted it. the muleback cord is bad because i am still have to carry everything on my back and thus prone to having my gold stolen all 15000 gp of it because i am not allowed to have magic items. and its only the gold and my cloths on my back and a few non magical items i am carrying.

i am not saying that the wizard straight out murdered my first character for the bag of holding he had. but guess who has had it ever since. killed by a tiger. then there is my second character who he murder out of negligence. who casts shatter on a guy know for carrying caustic/explosive fluids in glass containers when he should have been attacking the BBEG but wanted the glory of destroying the BBEG's magical device i was trying to disable/ take out of the BBEG's control.

my GM's idea of magical rewards for my last character so far has consisted of things like "the spider book of spiders" that attacks user. "the book of vermin slaying" to kill "the spider book of spiders" still stuck on spiders because i did not kill the spider book. "the book of escape" which kept escaping. a set of full plate armor for a dex based character. and a amber ioun stone which was nice but was lost when my last character died. the other magical items i had to buy or had a choice of choosing between two bad choices. something that i could only use twice or a sipping jacket that would not work with my class features but was only told after i chose it that i could not use my class features with the jacket. just so you know i was playing an alchemist for both deaths the first was the party healer the second was a utility/healer bomber/archer thing. and to be able to heal i would have to buy magic wands of healing and potions those things cost bank.

so this time i am not taking on any healing roles and relegating myself to a backseat role of a debuffer and the most hated class in all the land in the world we play in the witch. and when my gm saw i was bringing a witch to the table he was like are you sure? your going to get bored. i was like yea i am sure we don't need another fighter or spell blaster in the group. i am sure i can keep myself busy and amused with this choice. then he was like "well your going to become a hag then because that's what witches become." so here i am playing a female (flipped for the gender in front of the DM) ratfolk (seemed like a good choice at the time) who is forced by everyone to be obsessed with cheese even though she is not. who is fated by the DM to become something she does not want. and is actively trying to hide the fact that she is a witch so she won't be burned at the stake for being a witch. let the out of character knowledge flow......

so many grievances.....

[DungeonmasterCal]

Leave. That. Game.

[A highly regarded expert]

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

[Kjeldorn]

A highly regarded expert wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

and I would like to add a "Run you fool, Run".

[DrDeth]

Kjeldorn wrote:

A highly regarded expert wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

and I would like to add a "Run you fool, Run".

Gandalf said it better "Fly, you fools!" ;-)

[Goth Guru]

That's worse than Pathfinder Society.
Seriously, who published Salem Witch hunt rules like that?

I'm going to look in the advanced players guide and find out how badly messed up that is. I looked, and hag transformation isn't even an option. Is that fool calling it game balance? because it's not.

For every sucky cursed item you should get to select one awesome item.

[Kileanna]

I feel so sad for you, Zainale. I've kept track of your posts where you asked about playing a witch because I'm now playing one and I'm really enjoying it so much. I know you have put effort in creating your character. You looked like you were kinda excited about playing one and it makes me sad knowing that your gaming experience is being ruined by a poor GM and someone who doesn't know how to play in a team.
I've had some similar experiences and it sucks. You make a character you are excited to play and your experience ends being ruined. It completely sucks.
It made me remember a game I was recently on, where a player wanted to play a monk, she rolled an intelligence score of 9 and the GM forced her to roleplay as if she was utterly stupid and didn't let her roleplay but a comic relief character. I was playing a cleric who thought of herself as a holy warrior and as my character didn't want to be treated any different from non divine characters she didn't mention she was a cleric. But all the NPCs had perfect knowledge and they knew anyway.

[Pan]

I dont have MLK off and most of my friends and fiancé do :(

I want to be at home practicing my guitar. I am forming a band to perform at the wedding!

[Maneuvermoose]

DrDeth wrote:

Kjeldorn wrote:

A highly regarded expert wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

and I would like to add a "Run you fool, Run".

Gandalf said it better "Fly, you fools!" ;-)

Obi said it better: Run, Luke, Run!

[zainale]

i am also afraid to ask to have an ice elemental as my winter witch's next familiar. because the dm might flavor it as that damn snowman from that "let it go!" Disney movie. the DM has a tendency to slay pc's pet class features. i will be waiting for to slay my winter witch's almiraj mauler familiar witch is as big as my ratfolk pc in its normal form. well i planned for it's death and i will get a fancy dagger out of it's horn, that is a plus.

[Kileanna]

It's only getting worse, it seems... Are you enjoying the game? Because it looks like you're having a pretty frustrating experience.

[Kileanna]

Maneuvermoose wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

Kjeldorn wrote:

A highly regarded expert wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

and I would like to add a "Run you fool, Run".

Gandalf said it better "Fly, you fools!" ;-)

Obi said it better: Run, Luke, Run!

Hmmm?

Run, run you clever boy, and remember.

[Ithsay the Unseen]

Uh, my game only meets twice a month, like clockwork -- dependable, Gnome-designed, Dwarf-built clockwork -- so I don't get enough of great teamwork, clever PCs, and flexible, well-prepared GM?

(I know, but I had to come up with SOMETHING to air; all the cool kids are posting here.)

[DrDeth]

I know what you mean. I moved to Santa Clarita CA, and I went from 2-3 weekly games to none. :-(

Finally I have a Wednesday game and a every other Friday game.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Kileanna wrote:

Maneuvermoose wrote:

DrDeth wrote:

Kjeldorn wrote:

A highly regarded expert wrote:

DungeonmasterCal wrote:

Leave. That. Game.

This. ^

and I would like to add a "Run you fool, Run".

Gandalf said it better "Fly, you fools!" ;-)

Obi said it better: Run, Luke, Run!

Hmmm?

Run, run you clever boy, and remember.

RUN, JOEY, RUN

JOEYYYY RUNNN

[Kileanna]

I'm scared of trench mists... So very scared of them.
Rasputin also scares the hell out of me...
But from now I think I have enough dealing with trench mists.

(Please, don't make any spoilers about trench mists, I've faced them once but I had to teleport away so I'm not still 100% aware of what's going on with them)

And I'm still scared of them!

---

Also, I'm GMing Skull and Shackles and playing Reign of Winter at more or less the same time and I'm loving both. So when I'm GMing one I wish I was playing the other and vice versa. I should feel happy to have two great stories going on, but I hate not to be able to split like an ooze and doing both things at the same time xD

---

Not big grievances but grievances after all.

---

Still scared of trench mists.

[TOZ]

Ah, Reign of Winter. Good times! And yeah, trench mists are scary if you have no way to prepare for them.

[DungeonmasterCal]

I just read the trench mist's stats. *shudder*

[Kileanna]

Cool! We are all now scared from trench mists! Mission accomplished! xD
Don't worry, tomorrow I'm having my second take on them! Wish me luck! (Good luck, if I can choose xD)
Also, all the soldiers in the gas masks going around make me think of this Doctor Who episode.

[DungeonmasterCal]

I don't watch Doctor Who, but I did see that episode. Creepy AF.

[Rysky]

Kileanna wrote:

Cool! We are all now scared from trench mists! Mission accomplished! xD

Don't worry, tomorrow I'm having my second take on them! Wish me luck! (Good luck, if I can choose xD)
Also, all the soldiers in the gas masks going around make me think of this Doctor Who episode.

... BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[TOZ]

If you think we didn't make those references in our run through, you're crazy.

Trench Mists and RoW:

It was amusing that our cavalier had a goz mask and could see right through the mists, so we didn't really understand the mist was the creature. :D

[DungeonmasterCal]

My grievance today is I can't afford to help fund Kickstarter programs. Kobold Press is working on something I'd really like to be a part of, but sadly my vehicle is going to have to go into the shop asap and it's going to cost quite a bit. grumble grumble grumble...

[Kileanna]

TOZ wrote:

If you think we didn't make those references in our run through, you're crazy.

I guess they are compulsory.

That and Boney M.

[Mainer]

A gm for an irl game I'm playing in is too nice. In the sense that some of the challenges presented were too easy, or we got more than we expected, or stuff is very easily available. Don't get me wrong, it's nice to get stuff (potions, nice weapons, etc.), but I do like the challenges to be...well, challenging.

But he is also relatively new to bring a gm, and overall has provided some memorable and fun encounters :)

[Dalindra]

Boney M is dangerous!

I tried to portray Rasputin as a charismatic and reasonable man who could persuade the PCs to join him and bring order to the gala... well, I am sure you get it. As I expected, they refused. What I didn't expect was Kileanna telling me: "Nah, we won't join him. I already have a plan to beat his ass: it involves summoning a Celestial Octopus and a bunch of Succubus. Russia's greatest love machine? We'll see about that!".

Now I can't look at Kileanna without cowering!

[Rysky]

Dood...

[Kileanna]

Succubus in a grapple with Rasputin and a Giant Celestial Octopus. What's not to like?

[Rysky]

Nothing!

[Kileanna]

No more trench mists... I wish. Squishy wizard saved after some goat-induced panic. Shadows banished by the squishy wizard. Guy from Sleepy Hollow escaped. Met a Quibblemuch lookalike. It went fine overall. My only grievance now is that I have to wait until next session.

[Jader7777]

I create maps, layouts, traps and encounters carefully tailored and designed around my parties composition and unique builds/backstory with practised voices for NPCs they'll meet with some sweet loot prepared on custom made hand outs.

Players don't show up, and then ones that do fall asleep or decided to go somewhere else for most of the session with no explanation other than "need food brb".

Feels great.

[Dalindra]

Jader7777 wrote:

I create maps, layouts, traps and encounters carefully tailored and designed around my parties composition and unique builds/backstory with practised voices for NPCs they'll meet with some sweet loot prepared on custom made hand outs.

Players don't show up, and then ones that do fall asleep or decided to go somewhere else for most of the session with no explanation other than "need food brb".

Feels great.

Rysky Mode on

Offers hugs.

Rysky Mode off.

[kainblackheart]

We had a group of five for a long time, me& my wife, a friend & his wife and another friend. Great group, played for years together. Great chemistry. Then single friend got a girlfriend and it all went south. She played with us but it didn't mesh right, then single friend would come alone, but leave real early and again, didn't feel right. Now single friend and his girl game with her friends and we are a group of four. We still have fun, but I miss the old times.

[Goth Guru]

Kileanna wrote:

Cool! We are all now scared from trench mists! Mission accomplished! xD

Don't worry, tomorrow I'm having my second take on them! Wish me luck! (Good luck, if I can choose xD)
Also, all the soldiers in the gas masks going around make me think of this Doctor Who episode.

"Mummy?"

I am so going to create a random occupant table for trench mists.
Goblins wearing fake shark fins are one possibility.:)

I only wish I could get people to playtest my ideas.:(

[DungeonmasterCal]

Pretty hacked off at my FLGS. There are only 2 in my hometown and the one I recommended to a friend who wants to start a PFS game scheduled a kids' party at the same time we were supposed to be there. The entire gaming room is filled to the brim with little kids playing Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon, as well as the younger ones running rampant around the room. The girl who was working the counter today couldn't apologize enough and told us if we reschedule to speak with her and not the owner because he is really bad at not looking at the schedules and just books whoever tries to reserve a time slot, regardless of who might already be registered for one.

grumble grumble grumble.

[Pan]

Thats why I dont really play at FLGS its always a crapshoot. I get not all folks have any other option.

[DungeonmasterCal]

OH, we play our regular campaign (the one I GM) at my house. My friend wanted to do it at a game shop for some reason rather than do it at my house. He's kind of a strange duck sometimes.

[Alni]

Hopefully my last post in this thread, probably quitting the game. GM cancelled on us again. Last session -a month and a half ago- he cancelled a day earlier, without rescheduling. This time 20 minutes before the session started. Our understanding is he wanted to go out with friends.

Also, every NPC is amazing(-ly better that you!)

Me: I look around the fair to find a cleric of Calistria for some payed entertainment.
GM: You do.
Me: I make chit chat, then ask how much.
GM: Let me think, she's high priestess so that would be...

...and the village butcher is a 20th lvl samurai

[Kileanna]

I had to cancel my last WotW session yesterday in last moment because of health issues (nothing very bad fortunately). It sucks.

[Alni]

Kileanna wrote:

I had to cancel my last WotW session yesterday in last moment because of health issues (nothing very bad fortunately). It sucks.

That's unfortunate :( I don't have a problem with people cancelling if there is a good reason. Hope you're feeling better.

[Kileanna]

I do. I'm still plotting my revenge on my dentist xD

[Cap'n Yesterday's Spring Fever]

Whenever I schedule a game, someone gets sick, this time it was me.

F$&# you winter!

[Kileanna]

Cap'n Yesterday's Spring Fever wrote:

Whenever I schedule a game, someone gets sick, this time it was me.

F#%$ you winter!

Yes, Curse you, Winter! Curse you all, Winter Witches!

Uhm... erh... too much RoW these days...

[Tableflip McRagequit]

Is it possible to flip an entire season? Hold my beer, we're about to find out...