Given that the procedures in question actively violate the constitution and would get everyone involved in doing them arrested? And that cops and officers of the court know this and thus wouldn't do them? No, this isn't a viable plan.Thing is, the constitution was written assuming certain things about humans. The rise of superpowers shakes those ground rules - might even nullify many of them completely. It's simply not very relevant to the question of, "How should the court handle a person suspect of using mind control powers for evil", because that question is out of the scope of what the legal system in the U.S is meant to handle.
Faced with these circumstances, competent judges would adapt as needed.
I think maybe you underestimate the inertia that the constitution has behind it. As far as criminal law goes, it would probably take years to accomodate things like mind control by super-powered individuals. If Kilgrave was operating more openly and leaving a visible trail of devastation in his wake than maybe some sort of executive order or something could get around it, but he has been specifically laying low and it would be very difficult to prosecute him without some existing body of regulation.
You would really need someone like Shield to intervene, or pretty much what Jessica ends up doing, if you wanted to stop Kilgrave.
|
Thing is, the constitution was written assuming certain things about humans. The rise of superpowers shakes those ground rules - might even nullify many of them completely.
Eventually? Almost certainly. I suspect Civil War (and the Sarkovia Accords) will deal with precisely this issue among others, for example.
But such changes haven't happened yet when Jessica Jones occurs, and the police in particular generally act as the law is, not how it should be or will be in a few years.
It's simply not very relevant to the question of, "How should the court handle a person suspect of using mind control powers for evil", because that question is out of the scope of what the legal system in the U.S is meant to handle.
Yep. Which means until rules are put in place, the system is basically incapable of handling it. You can maybe fudge something if you have ironclad proof of a crime, but absent that...the system isn't set up to deal with it and will be inclined to ignore it.
We've actually seen this same sort of thing (albeit to a much lesser degree) in real life with some varieties of internet crime. Given that some crimes don't break federal laws, only local ordinances, but can be committed from several states away...those crimes simply never get prosecuted. The laws simply haven't caught up with the technology.
Similarly, in the MCU, the laws have yet to catch up to the possibilities superpowers...and are thus not equipped to handle any that require special measures.
Faced with these circumstances, competent judges would adapt as needed.
Uh...no. That's not how either law or the Constitution works. Especially the Constitution. You can ignore the Constitution as an individual, and powerful enough federal agencies can bend it into a pretzel...but local police departments or Judges? Not so much.
In all likelyhood some government agency takes the preponderance of the evidence and snipes or smartbombs kilgrave from half a mille out/20,000 feet. Governments tend not to be very forgiving about things outside of their power or challenge it, regardless of what pieces of paper say SHOULD happen
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In all likelyhood some government agency takes the preponderance of the evidence and snipes or smartbombs kilgrave from half a mille out/20,000 feet. Governments tend not to be very forgiving about things outside of their power or challenge it, regardless of what pieces of paper say SHOULD happen
Well, if this received any publicity beyond the local level, SHIELD would've gotten involved...and they could've handled the situation pretty readily (particularly since they aren't beholden to anyone at the moment).
Since that didn't happen, it seems that, while New York City was talking about it, there was widely considered to be very little evidence supporting it being true. Which is pretty plausible.
As long as they figure out what's going on before someone makes close contact or tries to bring him in as an asset.In all likelyhood some government agency takes the preponderance of the evidence and snipes or smartbombs kilgrave from half a mille out/20,000 feet. Governments tend not to be very forgiving about things outside of their power or challenge it, regardless of what pieces of paper say SHOULD happen
Yep, Hate to say it, but he would be a fantastic SHIELD agent. probably be willing to do it in a 'the worlds no good to me destroyed by alien menaces' kind of way.
|
|
Yep, Hate to say it, but he would be a fantastic SHIELD agent. probably be willing to do it in a 'the worlds no good to me destroyed by alien menaces' kind of way.
SHIELD wouldn't take him. HYDRA probably would've, but SHIELD doesn't accept serial rapists and killers as employees. Not knowingly anyway.
And hell, even HYDRA probably would've found him more trouble than he's worth. There's 'valuable asset' and then there's 'dangerous liability' and Killgrave falls firmly under the latter category given his pettiness and volatility.
And hell, even HYDRA probably would've found him more trouble than he's worth. There's 'valuable asset' and then there's 'dangerous liability' and Killgrave falls firmly under the latter category given his pettiness and volatility.
You'd need somebody on the level of a Dr. Faustus to do it, and Kilgrave would have to restrain himself long enough for Faustus to get his hooks in. Come to think of it, Moonstone (the Dr. Karla Sofen version) was a student of his in the comics, and she's on his level, and the MCU hasn't done anything with her yet. The question is: would Moonstone be subtle enough to keep Kilgrave from catching on in time to shut her down? He's a manchild, but he's not stupid. Then again, Moonstone excels at playing people, and if she's given a working profile going in... wait. Who's to say that the moonstone wouldn't protect her from his pheromones?
And now I have fic ideas.
Yep, Hate to say it, but he would be a fantastic SHIELD agent. probably be willing to do it in a 'the worlds no good to me destroyed by alien menaces' kind of way.SHIELD wouldn't take him. HYDRA probably would've, but SHIELD doesn't accept serial rapists and killers as employees. Not knowingly anyway.
And hell, even HYDRA probably would've found him more trouble than he's worth. There's 'valuable asset' and then there's 'dangerous liability' and Killgrave falls firmly under the latter category given his pettiness and volatility.
I don't know about that... SHIELD has always been an 'ends justify the means' kind of society. Fury was always willing to bend some rules and encourage some less scrupulous characters. Punisher, Wolverine, Elektra... they all have some serious blood on their hands.
For someone who could walk into a hot zone, say a few words, get the hostages, nuclear bomb and anything else needed... make them all forget he was ever there, and walk away...
That' a pretty powerful skill set, and if THEY don't use him... someone ELSE would. Fury was always the practical sort.
As for Hydra?? He's a fairly simplistic man with simple goals/weaknesses. All the better to control him with.
Which is the major issue with him. Control. As long as he is getting what he wants... he'd be an asset. If he ever gets unhappy about something... then it all falls apart.
|
|
I don't know about that... SHIELD has always been an 'ends justify the means' kind of society. Fury was always willing to bend some rules and encourage some less scrupulous characters. Punisher, Wolverine, Elektra... they all have some serious blood on their hands.
We're talking Cinematic Universe here. Fury isn't even involved with SHIELD at this point...and even when he was, the people you mention never worked for him (and in the case of Wolverine never existed).
For someone who could walk into a hot zone, say a few words, get the hostages, nuclear bomb and anything else needed... make them all forget he was ever there, and walk away...
Uh...he can't make people forget about him. The whole show would be very different if he could. And given his erratic behavior 'can get anything he wants' is...not a selling point.
That' a pretty powerful skill set, and if THEY don't use him... someone ELSE would. Fury was always the practical sort.
That's why you kill him or put him in a box. Probably kill him, to be honest.
As for Hydra?? He's a fairly simplistic man with simple goals/weaknesses. All the better to control him with.
Yeah...not so much. He's clever and thinks he's better than other people. He feels no loyalty or need to keep his word and betrays people because it amuses him. He is not afraid of anyone his powers work on. There's also strong evidence he's willing to die to avenge himself on someone who injures him, so fear's a bad motivator.
This combination makes him pretty much impossible to control on any long-term basis.
Which is the major issue with him. Control. As long as he is getting what he wants... he'd be an asset. If he ever gets unhappy about something... then it all falls apart.
As stated above...this situation isn't sustainable. And thus smart people won't enter into it.
IIRC his powers didn't work over the phone.
Plant a bomb in his neck and have him on 24-hour electronic surveillance with a handler and radio orders to him.
Even assuming this is true, how do you get the collar on him? He's got pretty good security, to be honest. Also...upsetting a guy who can make anyone on Earth his personal assassin is a really bad plan long term, no monitoring system is perfect and he'll go off the grid eventually somehow.
Recruiting him and using him for a particular op then killing him is viable, but anything long-term? Not a good plan.
We're talking Cinematic Universe here. Fury isn't even involved with SHIELD at this point...and even when he was, the people you mention never worked for him (and in the case of Wolverine never existed).
Yeah...not so much. He's clever and thinks he's better than other people. He feels no loyalty or need to keep his word and betrays people because it amuses him. He is not afraid of anyone his powers work on. There's also strong evidence he's willing to die to avenge himself on someone who injures him, so fear's a bad motivator.
This combination makes him pretty much impossible to control on any long-term basis.And thus smart eople won't enter into it.
And really... is there any situation where SOMEONE doesn't think he's better or cleverer then the people in charge?? The key is to let them THINK that, but always stay one step ahead of them.
It's how Doom operated for YEARS... Heck, it's how Coulson handles Skye/Daisy. For a newfound rookie of the team, she spouts off all the time about decisions above her. But she's extremely useful on multiple levels... so they humor her.
These universes are built on poor ideas that smart people wouldn't enter into.
IIRC his...
Even assuming this is true, how do you get the collar on him? He's got pretty good security, to be honest. Also...upsetting a guy who can make anyone on Earth his personal assassin is a really bad plan long term, no monitoring system is perfect and he'll go off the grid eventually somehow.Recruiting him and using him for a particular op then killing him is viable, but anything long-term? Not a good plan.
??????
That one's the easiest PART of the plan. JJ and Trish got him unconscious in the back of a van pretty easy. Now picture the same smash and grab technique with a fully trained squad of SHIELD agents wearing earplugs.
Arm them up with Icers, Drop in with a FLash-bang, Stun the bodyguards, drop Killgrave, He wakes up in a soundproof box WITH the collar on. Easy-peasy.
anything part-time detective, part time drunk can do, the full power of a Government Spy agency can do better.
And sure, it'd end in disaster... but I could see some overconfident person (comic-Hill or Stark for example) considering it worth the risk.
|
|
And really... is there any situation where SOMEONE doesn't think he's better or cleverer then the people in charge?? The key is to let them THINK that, but always stay one step ahead of them.
Yeah...that's the part where him actually being pretty clever comes in. As soon as he realizes he's valuable he can start using that to manipulate the situation, and unless you're willing to kill him over small, petty, things he'll get away with it, and with even a tiny bit of freedom, he can start seriously working on getting the upper hand.
It's how Doom operated for YEARS... Heck, it's how Coulson handles Skye/Daisy. For a newfound rookie of the team, she spouts off all the time about decisions above her. But she's extremely useful on multiple levels... so they humor her.
That's...not quite how that relationship works. At no point is she allowed to believe she knows more than Coulson about anything early on...he lets her spout off because he's in the process of suborning her, which is a manipulation, but of a very different kind than you describe. It's much more about proving that he's her friend, rather than allowing her to believe herself superior. And later, he allows it because she's legitimately become part of his command staff and she has some pretty serious expertise in certain areas.
These universes are built on poor ideas that smart people wouldn't enter into.
I actually strongly disagree. Very few of the plans by either villains or heroes in the MCU are actually that stupid. Some are certainly much worse than others (invading Earth wasn't gonna go well for the Chitauri no matter what), but saying its entirely composed of such things is a vast exaggeration.
??????
That one's the easiest PART of the plan. JJ and Trish got him unconscious in the back of a van pretty easy. Now picture the same smash and grab technique with a fully trained squad of SHIELD agents wearing earplugs.
Arm them up with Icers, Drop in with a FLash-bang, Stun the bodyguards, drop Killgrave, He wakes up in a soundproof box WITH the collar on. Easy-peasy.
Yeah, that's fair. Of course, that just gets back to my major objection (ie: it not working long term).
anything part-time detective, part time drunk can do, the full power of a Government Spy agency can do better.
Oh, certainly. A friend and I once had an amusing conversation about how he'd be a one scene villain for the Avengers, a good two-part episode for Agents of SHIELD, and made perfect sense as a season-long villain in Jessica Jones.
And sure, it'd end in disaster... but I could see some overconfident person (comic-Hill or Stark for example) considering it worth the risk.
Sure...but as mentioned, I'm talking Cinematic Universe here. Nobody currently in charge of either SHIELD or Hydra seems to have quite the hubris necessary to try this.
|
Alas it was a big group and I had less than two minutes directly with her, there was no convo about her career at the table. Most of the talking was by what I imagine is her much younger sister.
My friend was LATE I did not want to sit down without him. I was early to the lunch but late to sit down.
Damn friendships!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I heard rumor tenant was going to be back(maybe flashback or something?). any truth? anyone know?
Psychic sleepers seem unlikely. especially since purples thing is more like a disease really.
Flashback is my best guess unless they have some way for him to come back from a broken neck?
Yeah, the showrunner has spoken about season 2 in interviews saying Jones still suffers from PTSD and the guilt of those she couldn't save... and now the guilt of taking a life (even someone as evil as Kevin). I expect we'll see some more of Kevin popping up as sense memories, hallucinations, and flashbacks.
I find this odd, so she didn't kill any Hand during the Defenders run?
|
|
I find this odd, so she didn't kill any Hand during the Defenders run?
I'm not actually sure if she did. She definitely beat some up, and was involved in setting up a building full of them to blow up...but I don't think she killed any with her hands (which is more intimate, and thus a lot more traumatic), though I'd need to re-watch to be sure.
Also, a consensus was reached among the Defenders that the Hand were undead monsters rather than 'people' in the strictest sense. Whether that's a reasonable conclusion to come to or not (and it actually is fairly reasonable based on the evidence, if not 100% true) is sorta immaterial inasmuch as thinking that about someone makes it easier to deal with having killed them.
And finally, she didn't know them. Killing someone you know, intimately, who you've seen photos of as a child, met their parents, and had dinner with is very different psychologically from killing someone in a mask you've never met before. Yes, even if that person has done things like rape you and murder people.
In short, I'm pretty sure most combat vets (or others who've killed people in a fight) would still be traumatized by killing someone they were as personally close to (no matter how awful that closeness is) as Jessica was to him. That doesn't make a lot of logical sense, but human emotions often don't.
My understanding about Hand ninjas is they were all kind of zombie-ifized humans that go poof after you break them.
Also I don't think Emma Frost is showing up on any Netflix show.
The gifted MAYBE. But not MCU.
I thought there were two different evil ninja organizations from Daredevil and Iron Fist that they just combined for simplicity.
I am very excited to see more though. Especially now the symbolism of men with power over women is NOT lost.
A point of controversy; is Jessica stronger than Luke? I have heard otherwise, but I'm pretty sure in the show we see her pin his arm behind his back. When he is fighting her she just didn't want to hurt him, which I think is why she got hit more.
I think Jessica is physically stronger, but lacks Luke's durability. That's been my understanding.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well now a days in the comics luke has been buffed to he can hold his own versus Namor and the thing. old days spiderman was stronger by a bit.
Jess can fly so she has that on luke.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I thought there were two different evil ninja organizations from Daredevil and Iron Fist that they just combined for simplicity.
There are a lot of evil ninja organizations in Marvel Comics, but both Iron Fist and Daredevil have definitely fought the Hand in the comics.
I am very excited to see more though. Especially now the symbolism of men with power over women is NOT lost.
I was never especially worried about that, to be honest.
A point of controversy; is Jessica stronger than Luke? I have heard otherwise, but I'm pretty sure in the show we see her pin his arm behind his back. When he is fighting her she just didn't want to hurt him, which I think is why she got hit more.
She didn't get hit more, she got hurt more (at least until the very end), because Luke is borderline invulnerable (or more specifically, his skin is). Jessica is not. Shoot Luke and he's annoyed, shoot her and she's in real trouble. That's his advantage over her.
Her advantage over him is that she is much stronger. We've seen how much Luke can lift when trying hard, and we've seen Jessica lift amounts similar to that with one hand.
All this is in the show, I think the distinction is less clear in the comics.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Because Jessica can be more easily hurt, she also has to be careful about what she heavily lifts. If what you're pushing/breaking/picking up can break skin, you can hurt yourself as much as you can hurt others.
I think if her power ever looks inconsistent it's because most of the time she isn't trying very hard.
In the comics, liked it when Jessica Jones showed up in the recent Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) comics. "Can't you fly?" "Badly."
Really looking forward to this. I like Kristin Ritter and Jessica Jones and the Jessica "world" enough... also just really looking forward to (hopefully) a "Defenders" show that isn't dealing with the Hand.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
New season 2 trailer ("Sidekick" Trish/Hellcat?! SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!)
Edit: Premieres March 8th.
|
|
All this is in the show, I think the distinction is less clear in the comics.
I'm pretty sure that comic version of Luke Cage is a LOT stronger than comic Jessica. His strength is rated at 25 tons in the comics. Jessica's strength doesn't seem to have a rating that I've found, but nothing she's done in the comics suggest it would be anywhere near that high.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Kosh,
No but she can clear punch through walls. So there's that.
Anyways I hope Season 2 DOES give us Hellcat. I WANT HELLCAT!!!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
New season 2 trailer ("Sidekick" Trish/Hellcat?! SQUEEEEEEEEE!!!)
*joins in squeeeee, contemplates inducing coma until March 8*
Meh.
No, that's not fair, I'm psyched about Black Panther. So wake me up for that one.
But of the MCU properties that are bringing in new things, it is mostly Netflix stuff I am most interested in, and specifically JJ. I really like the mix of gritty street level with some superheroics--right where I like it. AOS used to be like that but I'm not digging it's current trajectory, purely personal preference.
For JJ I am especially interested in them getting into her past and how she got her powers.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thor: Ragnarok is pretty good, DQ, if you haven't already seen it. Valkyrie and Korg (and Miek) are the real stars though.
Yeah, I'm really excited for Black Panther too.
Edit: And I still wish we could get Aisha Tyler as a kick-butt (in the courtroom) attorney Jenn Walters in the MarvelNetflix shows.
Edit 2: Or maybe Jessica Williams (The Daily Show, 2 Dope Queens) as Jenn Walters.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thor: Ragnarok is pretty good, DQ, if you haven't already seen it. Valkyrie and Korg (and Miek) are the real stars though.
I did see it, and really liked it, but I don't have need for the DVD/Blu-Ray.
On MarvelNetflix, tho.... so when are we gonna get a Daughters of the Dragon series already?
Thor: Ragnarok is pretty good, DQ, if you haven't already seen it. Valkyrie and Korg (and Miek) are the real stars though.I did see it, and really liked it, but I don't have need for the DVD/Blu-Ray.
On MarvelNetflix, tho.... so when are we gonna get a Daughters of the Dragon series already?
Sadly it seems only the series currently on Netflix will continue to be on Netflix. Rumor has it that there was a "Full Stop" order from Disney that forbids all sale or lease of properties not already contracted to non Disney owned entities.
That being said there is a chance that Hulu will get a few new shows but they (at the moment) don't have the track record for original series that Netflix does.
Or so says this article anyway.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well, that's probably because Disney's wanting to start its own streaming service. Which I hope just means that Daughters of the Dragon WILL be a thing (since they've been setting it up pretty well in the Defenders) but not until the new Disney streaming platform comes online. (I also have my full wishful thinking cap on for a new Agent Carter series once that happens, since the issue seemed to be entirely with ABC.)
Does Netflix have a contract to make continued sequels of the stuff they've produced already (JJ, DD, Luke Cage, etc.)? Or is it all unknown at this point?
According to another article, Netflix will maintain their current roster for now, at least through their committed seasons (S2 for JJ,LC,IF, and Punisher, S3 for DD.) Though it also seemed to imply that they kept those licenses for the foreseeable future.
Because Jessica can be more easily hurt, she also has to be careful about what she heavily lifts. If what you're pushing/breaking/picking up can break skin, you can hurt yourself as much as you can hurt others.
I think if her power ever looks inconsistent it's because most of the time she isn't trying very hard.
In the comics, liked it when Jessica Jones showed up in the recent Hawkeye (Kate Bishop) comics. "Can't you fly?" "Badly."
Really looking forward to this. I like Kristin Ritter and Jessica Jones and the Jessica "world" enough... also just really looking forward to (hopefully) a "Defenders" show that isn't dealing with the Hand.
'Can you stop a car?"
"A slow moving one"
I believe she showed that she can pick up the front of a car which is darn strong for a human.
|
|
For JJ I am especially interested in them getting into her past and how she got her powers.
Since the company involved also is tied into Daredevil's powers, and *might* be easily enough tied into the experiments that gave Luke Cage his powers, or even the pills that Nuke/Officer Will Simpson used to have powers, it could make for a neat villain option for a second season of Defenders, tying all sorts of threads together, and also allowing the 'Netflix Defenders' to potentially face foes with similar abilities to their own (someone with Jessica's strength, someone with Cage's bulletproof skin, perhaps even someone with Matt's super-senses).
Everyone but Danny could be tied to it, organically (and Matt and Jessica already are, explicitly), and there's no reason why Rand Corp couldn't have some sort of ties to it, as well, if they wanted to go that route (although that's not necessary, just as Luke and Jessica weren't really tied to what happened in the first Defenders season).
Using the chemical company as a foundational 'villain' also allows a second season of the Defenders to flow from Jessica Jones, as the first flowed from Iron Fist, and makes whatever happens in Jessica Jones season 2 to be a sort of prologue to a bigger story.
I'm still betting on AIM.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Malcolm: "So how was anger management?"
Jessica: "Still angry." (new trailer)
I liked the first trailer better. But at least the second one had a good background song to it.