I think all you're establishing is that a Master Summoner around level 5 or 6 can convert a good amount of his SLAs into substantial healing, but are we talking about in combat or out of combat? Out of combat, a wand of CLW heals a ton and you can buy 10 of them for a single Archon Ring. In combat? 3d8+6 healing is going to taper off in effectiveness quickly. Even clerics don't usually spend their combats healing, so I'm not sure why a summoner would.
So yeah, it's definitely a thing you can do, but I don't see it as changing the game for very many parties.
Unless I'm mistaken, you've listed summons from 3 different rings. It may be obvious to you, but confuse someone coming into this thread fresh.
Nah, he's using the ring and Summon Good Monster.
Don't forget:
In-combat healing is a losing proposition because you have to give up an action to do it. Your cleric, for example, could heal your fighter OR kill the monster but usually not both.
By summoning a healer, maybe even right BEFORE you attack, you let that monster use its action economy so your healer (summoner) can use his own action economy to wipe out the enemy.
This makes in-combat healing as good as out-of-combat healing.
Arguably, the monster you summon could also try to wipe out the enemy, but at least in my experience, summoned monsters are often just speed bumps, or a minor damage bump at best, so it's not much of a lost action economy to let them heal instead of attack.
To be fair, I think the intent of the question covers hp damage only. And you are right, a Summoner can't cover True Rez.
As far as action economy, yeah, summons are free past the first round they're summoned, that's why making them do damage or combat maneuevers is also very strong. Usually stronger than healing, in a standard party. The same "one action to last all combat" works either way.
As far as wands of CLW...dude. Have you calculated out how much 10 wands is (the same price as the ring)? It's 2750 hp cured on average. By the time you run out of those, another 750 for a new wand will be pocket change. I've played entire APs and not gone through 10 wands (though to be fair, we were using Infernal Healing when unbuffed)
A double life spirit guide oracle has a ridiculous number of channels. And at higher levels the capability of double life link.
Use Greater Planar Ally, summon a Ghaele, and have CLW at will! Way overpowered, =)
You don't have to dismiss a summon to summon something else. The previous summon automatically dismisses when the next is cast. It is a limitation of the eidolon unless you are a master summoner.
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Why wouldn't you be a master summoner? I get that your group might think summoner is OMGWTFOP, there's certtainly an argument there, but unless you're intentionally gimping yourself to cater to your groups optimization level, this theoretical summoner should be a master summoner.
And he has no trouble with existing summons.
@LazarX, while I'm sure you'd like the rules to be that way, it is just not the case. You absolutely can summon while a summon is already there. It's only the eidolon which prevents summoning.
A summoner cannot have more than one summon monster or gate spell active in this way at one time. If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate immediately ends.
Well, the OP does specify Master Summoner. And they're not very incentivized to keep their eidolons out, given that they're half strength, and prevent the summoner from using their best ability.
And yeah, for a Master Summoner with Superior Summons, it's going to be more like:
Cleric - Casts Heal, cures 110 damage.
Summoner - Summon 1d3+1 Bralani Azata, each doing 3d8+6 (avg: 20 per summon)immediately. Then they do it again the next turn (up to 40 now), then they chill out and fight some stuff.
The cleric heals the most per turn (even without feats, traits, and stuff), the summoner does the most per "cast", which is drawing off his SLA pool instead of his spells. It's not an inconsiderable amount of healing.
Average of 3 Bralinis with an average of 19.5 says the summoner heals an average of 6*19.5=117hp across two rounds, and gets the anxillery benefit of 3 blobs of hp for the enemies to focus instead of the staggering meatshields.
It's certainly not bad for an arcane caster, that's for sure.
Then again, "Healbot" was never much of a protected title in the game, except insofar as no-one else wanted to do it.
I think it's cool that summoners can get in on that action too. It's a nice surprise trick.
Well, the OP does specify Master Summoner. And they're not very incentivized to keep their eidolons out, given that they're half strength, and prevent the summoner from using their best ability.
{. . .}
If you build your Eidolon for skill usage (which sounds like probably what a Master Summoner would want to do anyway), isn't it still pretty good to keep them around when you don't need the multiple summons?
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Here's the difference..
You're in pitch battle and your barbarian dps monster whom you rely upon to turn this battle, is taking heavy damage.
In order to do your awesome summons, you will have to
1. Spend a standard action to dismiss either your eidolon or your current Summon Monster.
2. Spend a standard action or full round casting your Summon Monster SLA to get your healing monster of choice out whose best ability is at most healing some dice of hit points per round.
3. Then your monster finally appears on the field three rounds into this process, and does it's thing.
4. Or the cleric slaps a heal spell right at step 1.
1) Granted, the Eidolon needs to be dismissed, but if you're going for the gold it's going to be in its Pokeball already, considering the Summon Eidolon spell is a thing. Also, recasting the Summon Monster X SLA automatically replaces the old one.
If this ability is used again, any existing summon monster or gate from this spell-like ability immediately ends.
2) Naw, it's just a Standard Action.
3) Nope, it's all there in the same round
4) Now the cleric doesn't have to either wade into melee or blow one of their three precious Reach Rod charges on an emergency heal. They can do something else, or combine their healing with yours in a real emergency
Granted, Summoners aren't the best healers for various reasons stated above, including the lack of simple status removal and rezzing outside of UMD and First Aid Gloves. But extra bodies that can eat attacks instead of your precious party members are almost always a sound strategy.
Well, regeneration + sacrifice.
Not sure if it is still allowed, but the Eidolon can give its HP to people, and then regenerate the HP back.
Don't forget:
In-combat healing is a losing proposition because you have to give up an action to do it.
I couldn't disagree more. Yes, you lose an action. No, it's not necessarily a losing proposition.
To the OP, I'd like to see you flesh out a build, say, just levels 1-4. Heck, show me two levels.
First 4 levels or 2 levels look exactly like any other Master Summoner. He can't pull off any healing until Summon Monster 3. Unless that's the point you're trying to make.
But that's okay, because when he's not healing, he's still a Master Summoner. Eagle bombs all day, every day.
First 4 levels or 2 levels look exactly like any other Master Summoner. He can't pull off any healing until Summon Monster 3. Unless that's the point you're trying to make.
But that's okay, because when he's not healing, he's still a Master Summoner. Eagle bombs all day, every day.
How is that okay? According to him, Summoner is the 'best' healer in Pathfinder now. Are you suggesting that the party just not play the first several levels?
OP was just asking a question. Nobody's said that summoners are categorically the best healers. And it's okay because even with 0 healing, Master Summoners are very good.
As for skilldolons, I'd only pull mine out when I needed their skills, but if the skill you need is perception/disable device, maybe that's not so great. Still, when I play Master Summoners, I leave the (fragile, ineffective) eidolons in their astral chill pad in case I want to drop 2 waves of Summons in one fight. With as deep an SLA pool as Master Summoner gets, that's almost every fight.
Lots of hostility in this thread. This isn't something to get worked up about.
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How is that okay? According to him, Summoner is the 'best' healer in Pathfinder now. Are you suggesting that the party just not play the first several levels?First 4 levels or 2 levels look exactly like any other Master Summoner. He can't pull off any healing until Summon Monster 3. Unless that's the point you're trying to make.
But that's okay, because when he's not healing, he's still a Master Summoner. Eagle bombs all day, every day.
To be fair, and party with basic communication that plans on having a Summoner as their primary "healer" will most likely have a battle cleric or druid or anyone else who can fill the gap at early levels and use Cure Light wands.
...then again, if it's Advanced Summoner there's always Infernal Healing.
Witch healing hexes provide unlimited healing, but it is limited per person per day.
Forced reincarnation hex gives healing of a sort. Unlimited use also.
The Summon Spirit hex also brings others to heal, which as a non-hazardous task is half price, so 50gp/HD of the called creature. This last hex can be used unlimited times as well. Get 20 minutes of healing service for 900 gp from a 18HD creature, or less for a lower HD creature. A Ghaele azata is 13HD (650gp) with CLW at will, so 1d8+5 per round of healing. So max of 200*(1d8+5)=1200 to 2600 hp, avg 1900 healed for less than a wand of CLW.
/cevah
Good luck using 1900 hp of healing in 20 minutes. Maybe you need to swim through some lava or acid lakes? Climb a wall made out of spikes?
Witch Healing Hexes shouldn't count as unlimited unless you also count cleric healing spells as unlimited healing, and resting as unlimited healing.
OP was asking about lots of healing. This was cheaper than a wand of CLW. About eight times cheaper per hit point. Also not limited to one at a time.
I do count it as unlimited, since you can you use it as often as desired, once per character. If you have a lot of pets/cohorts/others, it is a lot of free healing. If you need to heal up a war torn town with many hurt people, you can heal them all for free without expending resources. A cleric's spells, however, are quite limited. So is a cleric's channels.
Healing only the party, it may seem small, but when you increase the number of opportunities, the witch scales better than the cleric for HP healing, and the spirit hex is one of the cheapest spell access methods available.
/cevah
As has been said above, the definition of "best healer" needs to be defined. Master summoners are adequate wand wavers OOC and quickly get enough ranks in UMD to do the whole job of "buff with items".
They cannot combat burst heal as fast as a healing cleric or oracle at all levels. MS start awful, buy one item and get amazing, fall off again and then buy another item and go crazy with ThunderCats.
I run a MS in a party with no healing cleric, and the MS does the majority of OOC healing with Infernal Healing. With a ring of summon healing bladey orbs, the MS is quite solid as an in combat healer at low mid level.
You really need a minimum of two wand wavers in a party for adequate healing in dungeon. One should preferably not be a evil spell waver, in case you happen to have quite righteous folks along. Our paladin generally refuses evil healing, as a principle of being extra good, although he does not begrudge the rest of us using it.