Step 1 ignores the fast that quarterstaves and clubs are free because they are simple pieces of wood
Step 2 might void it being 'cold' iron.
Step 3 requires a craft check, which means you still have to pay for some raw materials
You might as well just claim that you're getting regular iron clubs and melting them down to sell at 1 sp a pound as a trade good. That isn't how the game works.
|
Step 1 ignores the fast that quarterstaves and clubs are free because they are simple pieces of wood
Step 2 might void it being 'cold' iron.
Step 3 requires a craft check, which means you still have to pay for some raw materialsYou might as well just claim that you're getting regular iron clubs and melting them down to sell at 1 sp a pound as a trade good. That isn't how the game works.
Heck, just start 'em up and sell them for firewood.
step 1 "buy" a ton of clod Iron Clubs
Step 2 melt them down
step 3 mold into other weapons
step 4 profit
step 5 laugh maniacallyany thoughts?
You have to pay half the cost in materials. Since the Iron Clubs are free, they do not contribute to the cost and cannot be used for crafting, RAW.
Also, "Items without metal parts cannot be made from cold iron" so it's a moot point.
The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The free download Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide answers many of these questions. The core rulebook answers the others. Both a required reading for PFS.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
It's this kind of BS that screws over my Club PC.
Clubs can be made of metal.
I would just pay for them as if they cost 5sp, or just avoid it.
Don't f**k things up, because you think you are clever.
My PC is not the only one that carries a Club in PFS.
Ahem.
Join the club.
|
Clubs can be made of metal.In real life, sure.
In Pathfinder, not that I'm aware of.
Three VCs told me otherwise. I have a Silver Club, and no one has told me it was illegal.
Basically, a Fish Bat, Tire Thumper, Straightstick, Truncheon, Lead Pipe, or Baton.
I actually carry a fish bat around with me.
When someone asks what a metal club looks like, I show them.
Look at the description:
This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.
Usually, does not equal always.
Hell, there is a creature in the Bestiary 4, that wields a +5 holy cold iron club.
So, some clubs are wood, but for me, my clubs are metal.
|
Clubs are free because you can go and pick them up off the ground. Because they're made of wood. Show me a cold iron tree in PFS and I'll let you have a free metal club.
If you want to make a metal one, it is mechanically called a light mace.
No, a light mace is a light weapon that cannot be thrown. A club is a one-handed weapon that can be thrown. Other than the fact that they both do 1d6 bludgeoning damage, they are nothing alike.
|
Seeing as no one has shown any stats of a club vs a light mace I thought I would provide those stats.
Mace, light 5 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 — 4 lbs. B — Light Melee Weapon
Club 0 gp 1d4 1d6 ×2 10 ft. 3 lbs. B — One-Handed Melee Weapon
Looking at this information, a mace is a light weapon and a club is one-handed. You can throw a club, but not the mace. The mace is 1 pound heavier. Otherwise there is not much of a difference.
|
|
I dislike the 0 gp entry for club and quarterstaff in the weapons tables. Weapons constructed to be weapons should all have a cost associated with them to reflect the crafting as well as the raw material. Listing club and quarterstaff as 0 cost just leads to issues like the one raised by the OP. IMO all "weapons" picked up off the ground should be improvised weapons.
Improvised weapons read as follows (page 144 CRB):
Improvised Weapons: Sometimes objects not crafted to be weapons nonetheless see use in combat. Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object. To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match. An improvised weapon scores a threat on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. An improvised thrown weapon has a range increment of 10 feet.
Agreed. I also think it's funny that the difference between a stick and a big stick (club vs greatclub) is 5 gp and martial proficiency. Ultimate Equipment even says that the greatclub could just be a tree branch.
Edit: the thought process after I posted
The party is off in a field, gets attacked, and someone picks up a felled tree branch to use as a weapon. A local farmer immediately runs out and demands 5gp for the greatclub the player just took from his land. An argument ensues about whether it is actually a greatclub or just an improvised weapon.
|
How it was explained to me back in 2nd edition is a club is like a wooden baseball bat and a mace (heavy mace for 3.0 and pathfinder) is like an aluminum bat. The increase in damage is to allow for the increased damage and distance you get from using an aluminum bat.
I once had someone get upset with me when I disallowed his mithral quarterstaff...he would not believe that I was correct until the VC pointed out the mithral entry in the player's own CRB.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
Obsidian arrows, yo. Cheaper, lighter, gonna break half the time anyway.
The question is why doesn't every 1st level character have their ammunition made of stone at 1/4 the price (I'm looking at you, Bolas Bolts)?
Because for 12 gp I can get 20 cold iron, silver blanched arrows, and ignore both DRs. And unless it is your first game, or you are a machine gun build, that 12 gp will be trivial.
(Just to make sure, you realize bolas bolts require exotic weapon proficiency and a specific exotic weapon, right?)
|
|
Hey, remember when we couldn't price Mithral Weapons with a negligible weight?
Eventually, there was a FAQ. Price them as half a pound.
So, just wait for a FAQ. Promote it.
You don't need to be a d**k about it either way, with "LOL free Cold Iron", or "Usually, is always, for I am the Wooden Club Master, you cheaty bastard".
Just avoid buying a Cold Iron Club until there is some sort of FAQ, or Developer input.
|
|
From the description of clubs it is
This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.
The other options are "natural" materials bone, stone, greenwood, darkwood, paueliel, whipwood, viridium, and wyroot. There might be others but that's what I've gathered from my library.
|
|
From the description of clubs it is
This weapon is usually just a shaped piece of wood, sometimes with a few nails or studs embedded in it.The other options are "natural" materials bone, stone, greenwood, darkwood, paueliel, whipwood, viridium, and wyroot. There might be others but that's what I've gathered from my library.
Usually, is not always.
All you see is wood, but notice it never mentions that is always so.
|
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
For what it's worth, BBT, Venture Captains are not rules mavens, and "I asked a VC" is no better than "I asked my GM."
Venture Captains have been chosen for their organizational zeal and their willingness to get down and dirty with a lot of the paperwork that the campaign requires.
Some of them are very capable with the Pathfinder game rules, and Mike used that skill productively. But certainly not all of them.
If you cite which Venture Captains you asked -- and hey, once you got a VC to agree, why did you go off and ask two others? -- they can chime in and explain their reasoning.
(Or, I could have just taken your troll bait. In which case, well played, I guess.)
|
|
3 VCs told me it was allowed.Just because its not specifically prohibited does not mean that its allowed.There is no line about it one unable to make/buy metal Clubs.
That is decisively false.
Its not an unreasonable ruling but you're trying to push it as THE ruling and its not: especially with the usual -it didn't say i couldn't therefor i can- fallacy.
The materials a weapon can be made out of has a lot of in game effects : damage reduction, hardness, hit points, warp wood heat metal etc. Most of the oddball materials have clauses that say normally made of metal etc, which clubs are not.
|
|
Playing Devil's Advocate here, the description does state that a club can have nails or studs embedded in it. While clubs are "usually" made of wood, nails and studs are "usually" made of metal.
So, couldn't those exterior metal bits be made of cold iron, and thus usable for overcoming DR?
Its possible (i noted the same thing above) , and it seems fine as long as no one tries to dig the cold iron nails out of 100 free cold iron clubs and make a cold iron greatsword out of it.
Or its possible that the presence of a few nails isn't enough to make the entire weapon count as the special material. I have a silver studded silver maple club on one of my characters from a werewolf fetching expedition, but realize that theres a bit of legitimate table variation around that.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think what a LOT of folks are missing here is the very nature of the material in question.
Cold Iron... ie, cold-wrought iron... is notably difficult to work with because it has to be forged without the heat of any fire.
So there'd be no 'melting down' of the iron to make another weapon. It'd destroy the 'cold' iron aspect of the metal and turn it into 'junk' iron (because it is unalloyed and raw).
To figure out a 'nail' for a club? Why not use a piton for the base cost of the nail. Double for cold iron.
Boom. Done.
Disclaimer: My opinion and take, your mileage may vary. Offer not valid at all gaming tables. Twinkishness quotient may apply. Viewer discretion advised. If your cold iron nail remains cold after six hours of immersion in flame, please see your local blacksmith for there may be an adverse reaction with your cold iron.
|
|
Well, if it is diffficult to work, a Club sounds easy enough to work.
As I said though, with a way to price it, there is no way to buy it.
Adamantine, Mithral, and other Special Materials have a way to price them, so it should be fine.
By the way, if I can't trust my VC to assure me that I have a legal weapon, then who do I trust?
Some random poster?
I have to have a signed affidavit from three different developers, including John Compton?
Why do I have ignore the meaning of "usually" to suite some random person who says that a word means something else entirely?
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
|
Why do I have ignore the meaning of "usually" to suite some random person who says that a word means something else entirely?
The usually in the club description is a lot like the Paladin and Ranger lists for animal companions having a line that says GMs can add creatures to the list. But PFS removes the ability for GMs to make these kind of decisions.
The price listed for the club in the PHB and UE is based off the club being made of wood, and GMs in a home game can set the price for alternate materials as they see fit. However there is no way to determine what a steel club costs, and if you can't do so you can't buy one. If you can't determine what a steel club costs you can't add any special material to a club that requires it to be made of metal.