The sad "I got culled" thread

[Adam Daigle]

I entered the contest the first three years and never got close to placing. I submitted items that I thought were good and shiny, but I overlooked some stains and blemishes. I remember being bummed when the results were posted. You kids have it easy with your spreadsheets and data and stuff. ;)

So I feel you.

I also kept at writing and putting my self out there. I know that not everyone who enters this contest wants to be a freelancer, but for those of you that want to be a freelancer, don't let this contest be a reason you stop trying. Get out there and find other contests, find publishers that have open calls or accept pitches.

[Tripp Elliott]

Here here, great post Brigg!

[Brigg]

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Here here, great post Brigg!

Thanks, man. I get a little passionate there. I love this community. ^.^!

[Tripp Elliott]

Brigg wrote:

Tripp Elliott wrote:

Here here, great post Brigg!

Thanks, man. I get a little passionate there. I love this community. ^.^!

Me too, that's why for Season 9 I voted Marathon three times and Dedicated once!

[Jeff Hazuka]

For what it's worth, I read your posts in Bill Pullman's voice from Independence Day, Brigg.

[Brigg]

Jeff Hazuka wrote:

For what it's worth, I read your posts in Bill Pullman's voice from Independence Day, Brigg.

Holy crap, I just died lol!!! That's fantastic! Thank you ^.^!!

[Browman]

My item got culled early last year and in hindsight it was pretty terrible. But afterwards I pitched to a couple of small projects through the freelance forge and within a few months from now should have a couple minor design credits to my name. My item this year is much better and if I hadn't been involved in trying to get other minor work, it probably wouldn't be.

Several people who work at Paizo have said that RPGSS is really hard, and that not everyone who does well in the industry would do well in RPGSS. So if you want to be an RPG designer, pitch ideas to developers or join a design group, the worst that happens is you end up in the same place you are now.

[Dieben]

Brigg, you are the kind of person I remain active in a community for. You encourage people to feel good about themselves and stand up for others. Thank you.

If we ever meet in person, I want to buy you a drink or a sandwich. Whichever is to your preference.

[The Raven Black]

CripDyke wrote:

And then there are items kicking around that seem to have nothing new to offer at all.

That's what gets me. I will clap for every item in the top 32. This is a popularity contest, and I get that. I even wrote something on another thread (pre-3rd cull) about how after Monday's 3rd cull anyone could win because there's only so much you can do - the rest is voter's tastes

But argh - I just can't get a few items that are still around out of my head.

Let it go, I know. But if I knew what could get an item with nothing new to offer past the 3rd cull, I feel like I'd know something very profound.

I think the crux of it is that the culls do not tell us much about the items that survived, more about those that did not.

Surviving the 3rd cull does NOT mean that the item is superstar material. It is the nature of the algorithm beast that many items that barely survived the cull can be actually "worse" than many who almost made it.

Which does not matter in the end, since all that counts is the Top 32+4 and the Top100.

Which is why it is a very good thing that Paizo will never let us know how each item was ranked. Because maybe the 101 should and could have been 100. And maybe so the 37 and the 33.

In the end, there is always a luck of the draw factor, however slight, which just might mean that you will not get the chance to advance in this contest even though you deserved it. It might also mean that if you make Top32, maybe you were in fact no better designer than the one who almost did it.

But that is all this round in the contest really does. It gives a chance.

As others have explained, there are many more venues for freelancing, but you need to keep hope and pursue this dream if you want it to become a reality.

[Covent]

Just found an item that had not been seen since the 26th!

[The Raven Black]

I see many posts snarking at the snark thread, and the workshopping, and the vote-only selection.

Way I see it, both the snark thread and the workshopping are of the same nature as getting feedback through the judges' critiques and the critique my item thread. It means understanding what you might have done better so that next time you WILL do better :-)

IMO, the venting offered by the snark thread is also a needed way to express the inevitable frustration when you vote and vote and vote through tens of not-superstar items. The Praise thread is there to help balance this.

Note also that expressing frustration at items, themes, backstories, crunch, formatting, whatever, does NOT mean that they automatically get a downvote. It can mean that done a bit differently, they might have become a really better contender. Or it can mean that we are getting bored with a specific popular meme. But I have items in my Keep list that DO belong to the meme I snark at. I did not let that blind me to their very high quality.

Finally, the main difference I see as far as workshopping is concerned, is that I do not snark openly at items I have seen through the workshopping. Because I felt honored that these people would trust me with their precious design and I do not wish to hurt their feelings in any way. But I downvote them just the same if the other item is better.

Note also that I do not believe that people's voting preferences can be that influenced by my feeble attempts at snarking. I am no mesmerizing master of the mob. Just another relatively inefficient vote-drone ;-)

[Dieben]

The Raven Black wrote:

I see many posts snarking at the snark thread, and the workshopping, and the vote-only selection.

Way I see it, both the snark thread and the workshopping are of the same nature as getting feedback through the judges' critiques and the critique my item thread. It means understanding what you might have done better so that next time you WILL do better :-)

IMO, the venting offered by the snark thread is also a needed way to express the inevitable frustration when you vote and vote and vote through tens of not-superstar items. The Praise thread is there to help balance this.

Note also that expressing frustration at items, themes, backstories, crunch, formatting, whatever, does NOT mean that they automatically get a downvote. It can mean that done a bit differently, they might have become a really better contender. Or it can mean that we are getting bored with a specific popular meme. But I have items in my Keep list that DO belong to the meme I snark at. I did not let that blind me to their very high quality.

Finally, the main difference I see as far as workshopping is concerned, is that I do not snark openly at items I have seen through the workshopping. Because I felt honored that these people would trust me with their precious design and I do not wish to hurt their feelings in any way. But I downvote them just the same if the other item is better.

Note also that I do not believe that people's voting preferences can be that influenced by my feeble attempts at snarking. I am no mesmerizing master of the mob. Just another relatively inefficient vote-drone ;-)

You're more of a master of the pamphleteer. You have more consecutive posts in there than I have in any other thread with my aliases. Your monologues are monolithic!

(This is said lightheartedly at an ungodly hour of the morning.)

[The Raven Black]

I blame the detached decency of my fellow European voters who leave me snarking on my own ;-P

[Anthony Adam]

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

... kind words ...

And for the last couple of years I have offered a template check service to contestants who want to avail themselves of that offer (using my Template Fu alias).

I am sure if Owen/Paizo didn't like or want me offering that opportunity then they would say so and I would stop immediately.

I am immensely proud that contestants who want to learn and progress actually ask for my template check and feedback. It fully believe that many of these contestants will grow and make Top 32 over the coming years because they have shown a willingness to learn and improve by asking for help.

If it ever became against the rules, I would cease immediately out of respect for this wonderful company that gives us such an amazing opportunity every year.

FYI, I broke records this year with over a 100 of you requesting a template check - of those, I have seen 80 in the last couple of days.

Whether you used my template check offer or not, I wish you all good luck - the round 1 reveal is not far away at all now. Good luck all.

[The Raven Black]

The Raven Black wrote:

I blame the detached decency of my fellow European voters who leave me snarking on my own ;-P

Anthony Adam wrote:

Really great things and NO SNARK

See what I mean :-)

[Kim Frandsen]

The Raven Black wrote:

The Raven Black wrote:

I blame the detached decency of my fellow European voters who leave me snarking on my own ;-P

I reserve my snarking for when it's truly needed. Or when I need to vent at having seen the same item too many times. :P

[pH unbalanced]

Well looks like I'm another one whose item was a victim of the not-so-hypothetical Wednesday cull. I held off posting just to make sure it wasn't a late sighting -- not because I had much hope it would turn up, but because that would have been a lousy way to DQ myself.

Yesterday I was definitely feeling defeated about it -- not because I didn't win, but because I didn't make it into the top half of items. I had believed making it that far was a given. I made the top 100 my first year with an item I believe was not nearly as good as this one. It just made me feel even more distant from what most people like than usual.

Today I'm feeling much more serene. Life goes on. Now I have more time to finish up my villain pitch.

I'm fairly certain I know why voters didn't like my item. I took a chance that I thought would cause a small amount of downvoting, but apparently was much more widely disliked than I expected. So be it. Superstars take chances, and my item turned out exactly the way I wanted it to (minus a few minor errors which will are easily fixed). I asked myself before I submitted if that one choice was a hill I was willing to die on to fully express my vision of thie item, and it was.

I just didn't think it would happen in Cull 4.

[Robert Thomson]

Jason Dandy wrote:

CripDyke wrote:

I did submit.

...

i would love to see the numbers in terms of how many voters there are overall in a given season and then how many times each voter voted. my theory is that there is a cadre of 10, plus or minus a small handful, who do the VAST majority of the voting and thus determine the top 32. and if the snark thread is any indication, the voting process for that cadre is detached from the stated goal of "select the items that best represent the qualities of an awesome RPG designer," and instead vote based on a number of pet peeves that primarily arise from the cadre's subculture.

I think you give way too much credit to the snark thread. I know from my side, I set up a set of criteria that I've stuck to from the start. I divided all items into tiers, setting it up like an NFL draft board. I have criteria for what makes a tier 1 (first round pick) item, then 2nd tier, 3rd tier, etc. Through 4 culls not a single item I orginally rated as tier 1 or tier 2 has been culled(and I did the majority of my voting in the first 4-5 days of this.) I know my criteria are very different than most of the snarkers (although I've posted some there too), but that criteria seems to hold up for the consensus.

I've know who the people mostly in the snark thread are. I know which items they seem to like or not like. And I know a number of them have been surprised or disappointed with some of the things culled, as some of their favorites have gone.

I think the voter base is much bigger than you think, and 10 people voting 100 times each has the same impact as someone voting 1000 times. I also know there is A LOT of people voting 1000 times or more. It's easy to tell because they have marathon tags. And having chatted with a lot of those marathoners, I know there isn't this big conspiracy of snarkers. Their tastes are varied all over the place. There is a lot of agreement on some really good items that nobody hates, but once that small handful of items is passed (far less than 32) each item has mixed support, so it's hard to tell what will make the cut at the end.

BTW, there are filagree, rune, and blood items still in the competition. Same with lion and undead related items. Although metas of items being very similar have been pointed out, quality items are quality items, and have stayed in. I've not seen a single item that culled that I didn't think should have been culled for one reason or another, so in my book the voting and culling process is working well, and I trust if I get culled, it will be because I should have been culled, not that some secret conspiracy eliminated my item.

[Lucky Pips]

I vote based of a system that I do not feel has been affected much by the snark threads. The big things for me are the verifiably correct or incorrect aspects of design. Price is subjective and not perfectly spelled out by the rules but CL, Aura strength, and slot use are. I personally don't care if an idea is unique and awesome if they mess up these facts, because the empirically right answers are out there and I think a superstar level designer will always dig into their items to confirm anything and everything and/or use alpha level readers to do the same. I would rather play in a game where all items work, even if not all of them are jaw dropping and unique (ex. the many perfectly good spell in a can items currently in the pathfinder RPG that all my characters happily use), than in a game full of wonderful design that is poorly executed and causes rules issues. It's probably the rules lawyer in me, but internal cohesiveness is just that fundamental to a good game. I think most people would have to agree when they really dig down to it, even when it might hurt to admit it when your item is flawed. Then I move onto template correctness. I would not work with someone who doesn't respect my requirements enough to abide by them, and I can't believe Paizo would either. I appreciate the snark thread because people have brought up points on these issues that I had been failing to check for before they brought them up, and it is only fair that I use all rules possible to check over items.

On the issue of people snarking about meta-level tropes, I think it is an important part of the feedback loop. The forums represent the fan base of the product, and designers should always at least be aware of what things that base is weary of. They might not listen to it all the time, and it might absolutely be the right call to fly in the face of that, but at least you know what the lay of the land is. Even better, you can start a conversation about WHY these things bother so many users. Maybe we will all learn that blood items don't inherently bother us, but the issues around self mutilation do. And then we would all be a bit wiser. This was my first year submitting, and if I had had the foresight to go to last years snark board before submitting, I would have known about the overused trope I was in danger of adding another drop in the ocean to. Now I will have to work that much harder to stand out, but I might have still gone with this idea anyways as it really spoke to me. I don't automatically reject anything for trope use no matter how worn out I feel it is, because that item might be the one that swings my opinion of the whole trope, and I hope others share this mentality.

[BartonOliver]

I'll say a couple things about the culled items. There are a couple of items I liked that have been culled, for the most part I also know why, of those only one item did I think it had a shot at being a top hundred let alone top 32 item. It was and is an extremely cool item, but it had some stuff going against it. If it were published I have characters who would buy it, or at least consider it.

Of the remaining items, there are a few almost automatic upvotes, there are a few that I haven't liked since round 1 and will continue to dislike, though there are also those that after 5/10/20 readings I get it now, I see what others have seen and why the item remains.

My item remains alive, I like my item, but it has flaws. There are 2 flaws I would change if I could go back and re-submit, and 1 thing some may see as a flaw that is there on purpose as part of the design space that makes sense to me. I don't know if I'll make it past the next cull, I think I should but if I don't that's okay too. (Honestly I think it's a top 100 item not a top 32, but who knows) I should mention, I did not workshop my item at all, there is only one person who even knew I was submitting an item before I did, and that's because I live with him. I've snarked items including my own as a way to blow off some steam during the countdown, but it hasn't affected the way I've voted. Honestly, if you make a trope-tastic item and it just works and fills a niche I'll overlook that, unless you come up against something better, and I'll probably praise you too.

All these culls have been more or less fair to my mind, yes there are some items I think should have gone out sooner than the some that already have but in the end all the top items (to my mind) remain. Also, previous years I thought the voting did basically the same thing as they are this year, just that the final top 100 items were reviewed by the judges. While there is a change in the process we have not even reached that point yet. (At least that's my understanding)

To everyone who has been culled, thank you for your items I grew as a player/GM/designer for having read them. I hope to see all of you back in the next season too. Best of luck to everyone, in the contest or not.

[The Raven Black]

Lucky Pips wrote:

I don't automatically reject anything for trope use no matter how worn out I feel it is, because that item might be the one that swings my opinion of the whole trope, and I hope others share this mentality

That. A hundred times that :-)

[Browman]

Lucky Pips I think it is important that we have people who vote based on different key elements. It leads to better items making the top 32. Because superstars have many good aspects of their item.

[Lucky Pips]

Browman wrote:

Lucky Pips I think it is important that we have people who vote based on different key elements. It leads to better items making the top 32. Because superstars have many good aspects of their item.

Completely agree. I didn't meant to imply my method is in any way the right way, I just wanted to outline it. I wanted to illustrate how the snark thread is important to some of my method when it comes to pointing out rules violations, but doesn't sway me against certain tropes due to vocal complaints about their perceived overuse.

It was more about defending the uses of the snark thread than my method, I just kinda got on a roll about it.

[Lucky Pips]

Now I kinda want to start a thread about people posting and discussing their voting methods, guidelines, and rubrics...

[Robert Thomson]

Lucky Pips wrote:

Now I kinda want to start a thread about people posting and discussing their voting methods, guidelines, and rubrics...

I actually like the idea. I'm thinking best to wait until voting closes before getting too much into that discussion though. Once it's closed, I think it's a great discussion.

[Lucky Pips]

Thrawn007 wrote:

Lucky Pips wrote:

Now I kinda want to start a thread about people posting and discussing their voting methods, guidelines, and rubrics...

I actually like the idea. I'm thinking best to wait until voting closes before getting too much into that discussion though. Once it's closed, I think it's a great discussion.

Well the cats out of the bag, I made that thread. Good point though, I will go and add that we should observe the same rules of vagueness as the snark and praise threads until the voting closes.

[The Raven Black]

Lucky Pips wrote:

Thrawn007 wrote:

Lucky Pips wrote:

Now I kinda want to start a thread about people posting and discussing their voting methods, guidelines, and rubrics...

I actually like the idea. I'm thinking best to wait until voting closes before getting too much into that discussion though. Once it's closed, I think it's a great discussion.

Well the cats out of the bag, I made that thread. Good point though, I will go and add that we should observe the same rules of vagueness as the snark and praise threads until the voting closes.

Actually, it would be better to ask people to wait until the Critique my item thread opens to start posting ;-)

It might also be possible to lock the thread now and reopen it at that time (with a caveat so that people know it is not being punished). Maybe an administrator can do that.

[Lucky Pips]

I don't know why we shouldn't discuss how we vote while we are voting. If the objection is that it might influence how some people vote, I chalk that up to the free marketplace of ideas working it's magic. You can't tell people they are not allowed to change their minds about the voting process.

If the concern is that It might get too specific about indivigual items that cause it, I will defiantly agree, and am adding an edit to remind people to be vague until the vote is closed.

[Jester David]

Looks like I'm gone.

Did well the last two, placing in the to 100 items but my entry this time just wasn't strong enough. It's a hard contest these days. Pretty stiff competition.

It's funny. I'm still listening to the PaizoCon and GenCon recordings. And every year you hear people say that RPG Superstar is a great way to break into the industry.
But, really, since you're competing against 200-300 of the best writers in the industry (who haven't had a cover credit) it's probably harder to get in this way than many others.
It's still worth doing, but it's worth trying other ways first.

[Jerett Schaufele]

Looks like I might have been voted off the island too. Made it through 4 culls so I guess that's better than a kick in the pants.

[Dana Huber]

Jester David wrote:

And every year you hear people say that RPG Superstar is a great way to break into the industry.

But, really, since you're competing against 200-300 of the best writers in the industry (who haven't had a cover credit) it's probably harder to get in this way than many others.
It's still worth doing, but it's worth trying other ways first.

It's worth remembering that RPGSS is a good way to get noticed by people other than Paizo, too. I was fortunate enough to reach Top 16 last year, and as a result, I've been able to do some map work for GM_Solspiral, because of how much he liked my map that I did in the contest. And sure, the fact that I got that far definitely gave me an edge, but I know that Solspiral and other 3PP publishers vote very actively, partly to keep an eye out for talent. Yes, the competition for those coveted thirty-two spots is stiff, but you are still more likely to "get noticed" or "break into the industry" by submitting an item and ensuring that hundreds, perhaps thousands (I don't know exact numbers on voters), of people will at least look at it, and maybe it will hit a chord with someone who really, really likes it... than by doing, well, nothing.

Whether you're more likely to Break Into the industry by RPGSS vs other active methods is a different question, of course, but fortunately, unless/until you have significant success via those other methods, it's not an either-or choice, and you can participate in both.

[frank gori]

I recruit people who haven't made top 32 too.

Also, I can't wait to get that site up so people can see that gorgeous map Dana.

[Dana Huber]

:D I'm looking forward to it too. I figured we could chat more about it after the contest, since I'm sure this is a busy time for us both!

[JamesCooke]

My item hasn't shown up yet, but I think it's safe to say I'm out. It had a few not-so-minor issues and I think they've finally caught up with me.

I still liked it in spite of its flaws, but I'm not too broken up about being culled. Last year I didn't even make it past the first cull, so I'd say surviving four is a vast improvement for me over last year.

What I take away from this is affirmation that I have what it takes, but I need to work harder and more diligently if I'm ever going to meet that potential. Even more so if I plan on entering next year's RPGSS (which I do).

But tomorrow is another day, and I think I'll celebrate it and my progress by doing more personal work while I wait for the "Critique my Item" thread.

Best of luck to the remaining designers- especially the ones who made it on my top 32 list!

[Scott LaBarge]

Dieben wrote:

Brigg, you are the kind of person I remain active in a community for. You encourage people to feel good about themselves and stand up for others. Thank you.

If we ever meet in person, I want to buy you a drink or a sandwich. Whichever is to your preference.

Hell, get a blender, let him drink a sandwich!!

And I too celebrate Brigg and all he stands for, even if it's only to halfling height.

[The Raven Black]

I currently have 25 items in my Keep list. Out of these 25, 22 were still there before this last cull and only 14 now remain.

I can assure you that there were items I found great among those who fell to that last cull. I hope you guys will post on the Critique my item thread so that I can thank you for your great items. For no matter how far they went in the contest, they all made it worth for me :-)

[Brigg]

GM_Solspiral wrote:

I recruit people who haven't made top 32 too.

Also, I can't wait to get that site up so people can see that gorgeous map Dana.

I can attest to this! Last year, Solspiral referred to my entry as "Publishable" and openly asked me to PM him if I was interested in 3PP work.

I didn't make top 32, but apparently, the Living Copperthread Net made the appropriate splash. ^.^

[Brigg]

Scott LaBarge wrote:

Dieben wrote:

Brigg, you are the kind of person I remain active in a community for. You encourage people to feel good about themselves and stand up for others. Thank you.

If we ever meet in person, I want to buy you a drink or a sandwich. Whichever is to your preference.

Hell, get a blender, let him drink a sandwich!!

And I too celebrate Brigg and all he stands for, even if it's only to halfling height.

Thank you, Scott ^.^!!

You guys are great!

[Nazard]

Brigg wrote:

GM_Solspiral wrote:

I recruit people who haven't made top 32 too.

Also, I can't wait to get that site up so people can see that gorgeous map Dana.

I can attest to this! Last year, Solspiral referred to my entry as "Publishable" and openly asked me to PM him if I was interested in 3PP work.

I didn't make top 32, but apparently, the Living Copperthread Net made the appropriate splash. ^.^

I loved that one last year! Voted for it every time.

[CripDyke]

Lorathorn wrote:

Good to see you around, CrypDyke. Glad to have you back!

Oh, thanks Lorathorn. I don't have a long history around here, but just as I started writing more frequently, I ran into an eye surgery that appeared to go well before suddenly I needed a 2nd eye surgery (really, I guess it went too well, cuz it revealed a new problem). Also, I have 2 kids, and suddenly the summer was gone. Nice to know that someone noticed me here (and gone). Hopefully now that the eyes can look at light as bright as a computer screen without me screaming like Bela Lugosi I'll be around more regularly - though I'm in law school and the new term will make it so I'm not here **too** much.

@Tothric...

Tothric, responding to my accurately-characterised wall-of-text wrote:

Hey CripDyke;

As a person who gave feedback on peoples items before the competition, I feel as if I'm partly responsible for your frustrations. Because, perhaps you are correct. Perhaps work-shopping with other potential voters may impact voting.

Perhaps it was unfair on a competitive level, and perhaps it was unethical.

I'm not an unaffected outsider, so I don't feel qualified to make that call. I do think this needs to be a discussion, and perhaps; work-shopping is unsportsmanlike.

I don't really make that call either. Workshopping it with your gaming group off-line seems hardly different than just running it past a copy editor. You might get more/different feedback than a good copy editor might give, but you might not get anything useful at all.

I know that I saw items in the voting that were items I recall being discussed on the boards earlier. They weren't necessarily in the same final format, but they were clearly being discussed on the boards. Some were unoriginal (though you don't **know** that people got the idea off the message boards) but whaddayagonnado? Others were ideas that I know were advocated by specific people, not just predictable ideas that might recur.

I chose not to look back through the threads and refresh my memory as to the exact person discussing such an idea, but wandering around the boards saying, "Don't you think we should have a Ring of Cool Idea #5626?" 17 times when no one else is advocating that* -- and then seeing a Ring of Cool Idea #5626 actually in the voting 3 or 4 months later seems to violate the spirit of the anonymity requirement.

That kind of thing, well, I do think that borders on unsportsmanlike...either unsportsmanlike in that you're ripping off an idea that's not yours and benefitting from someone else talking about it online, OR you're coming close to violating anonymity rules.

Even if workshopping as actually envisioned by Paizo happens entirely privately (Blazing 9 is not "workshopping" in the sense Paizo intends), this is the kind of accidental/borderline violation that wouldn't really matter if you were kicking ideas around with some offline or IRC friends and not on the message boards of the company who actually hosts RPGSS.

I don't know. I certainly don't see workshopping as envisioned by Paizo as bad -ethically or practically. I'm certain that all the actions that they take are consistent with trying to give help to budding designers. And that's a very good thing: for those who will never make a dime, at least their own games (and presumably their own fun) will be enhanced. For those who currently run publishers, they get a crop of new designers who (hopefully) will have different ideas by virtue of being different people than the ones who came before. And for those new designers, they make a bit of cash doing something that they clearly are motivated to do anyway. It's always nice to get cash for your hobby.

It's good all around, I just am the type of person to obsess about where the ethical lines get fuzzy. While I don't think I'm in a position to criticize anyone's ethics here, I think the need to encourage people to talk and chat and get ideas from each other - all things that have been proven to enhance creative processes and were talking about an endeavor that falls squarely within the "creative" bailiwick - creates a conflict with the rules of fair play that require anonymity in RPGSS itself.

And so I get all wishy-washy about the right thing to do and have basically decided that - for myself only - any/all workshopping needs to be done with non-Paizo-messageboard-persons for me to feel comfortable with it.

That's all, just my own feeling of comfort with my choices, not a general indictment of anything/ anyone.

All of which is another wall-of-text to say, don't worry about you causing my discomfort. I'm not an east-coaster, but it's all very east-coast-jew typical. Or, I could just go with

Wash, talking to Mal, wrote:

Zoe's out on a deal I always worry. So, it's not out of my way.

I fuss over such things. It's what I do. It's not out of my way.

======================
*in part out of simple respect if it really was an original idea, I don't mean to suggest the idea is bad when I say that no one else was repeating the idea.

[Owen K. C. Stephens]

Jester David wrote:

It's funny. I'm still listening to the PaizoCon and GenCon recordings. And every year you hear people say that RPG Superstar is a great way to break into the industry.

But, really, since you're competing against 200-300 of the best writers in the industry (who haven't had a cover credit) it's probably harder to get in this way than many others.
It's still worth doing, but it's worth trying other ways first.

First let me say that if you want to break into the tabletop game design industry, you should take every avenue you have time for that looks like it could possibly bring positive results. Don't do Superstar "before" or "after" other options. Do Superstar when it's an option, because that's just once per year. Do other things when those options exist, be that open calls, writing inquiries, submitting for fanzines, posting on your own blog, or whatever.

Back when I first got into RPG writing in the 1990s, it was clear that getting published in game magazines was the #1 path to having a career. So I wrote (mostly physical letters, since almost no game magazine allowed electronic contact) letters for writer guidelines for Dragon, Dungeon 9which was still bimonthly), Shadis, Pyramid, White Dwarf, d8, Troll, and Different Worlds (which turned out to be defunct already). I followed up on every response, and eventually got a lot of things published in Dragon and a few in Pyramid.

But at the same time I was submitting to the bigger Netbooks of X, writing online reviews for TSR's website for free, talking to professionals at Conventions, going to workshops, and doing everything I could think of to put my name, in a positive light, in front of people who could hire, in any way I could.

As a career move Superstar isn't just about winning (though obviously that's great), or even being in the Top 4 (which still gets you a shot at a paid gig). It isn't even just about being in the Top 32.

It is, in part, an opportunity to be part of a community that shares resources, discusses preferences, and may allow you to forge bonds with people that can help you find opportunities and avoid pitfalls for years to come.

And as you have all seen, several people who can pass out work, including myself, other Paizo developers, and major third-party publishers, are reading and commenting on these forums. Heightened attention is directed as everything Superstar-related. Just writing well and being a positive and intelligent influence on these forums can potentially help your career, even if you get hit by the first cull.

The main reason I volunteered to become the Superstar host last year is that I love this hobby as a whole, and this contest is an amazing opportunity and supports amazing people, and I want to do what I can to help.

[Jester David]

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Jester David wrote:

It's funny. I'm still listening to the PaizoCon and GenCon recordings. And every year you hear people say that RPG Superstar is a great way to break into the industry.

But, really, since you're competing against 200-300 of the best writers in the industry (who haven't had a cover credit) it's probably harder to get in this way than many others.
It's still worth doing, but it's worth trying other ways first.

As a career move Superstar isn't just about winning (though obviously that's great), or even being in the Top 4 (which still gets you a shot at a paid gig). It isn't even just about being in the Top 32.

It is, in part, an opportunity to be part of a community that shares resources, discusses preferences, and may allow you to forge bonds with people that can help you find opportunities and avoid pitfalls for years to come.

And as you have all seen, several people who can pass out work, including myself, other Paizo developers, and major third-party publishers, are reading and commenting on these forums. Heightened attention is directed as everything Superstar-related. Just writing well and being a positive and intelligent influence on these forums can potentially help your career, even if you get hit by the first cull.

The main reason I volunteered to become the Superstar host last year is that I love this hobby as a whole, and this contest is an amazing opportunity and supports amazing people, and I want to do what I can to help.

I just had to comment due to the coincidence of listening to some advice on breaking into the RPG industry mentioning RPG Superstar *minutes* before I realized I was culled (and thus not part of the Top 223 or so).

Something about the situation amused me.

I didn't expect to win this season. Or even make the next round. I failed to hit the Top 32 the last two seasons with far stronger entries. My entry this year was so-so and didn't deserve to win. Heck, I'm honestly and truly surprised I made it through as many culls as I did.
Really, I haven't rated my chances high in RPGSS in a while. I believe I'm a good writer, but don't feel I'm superstar quality. I continue submitting mostly to encourage myself to pay attention to the contest and keep voting for the people more talented than myself. I no longer do the contest to break into the industry but be a little closer when someone else breaks in. I want to have seen and judged the item written by someone who wins.

(Honestly, I'm a little too cynical with not enough restraint to really have a chance to make into into the industry. I likely blew my chance by sinking my rep before I knew better.
Heck, through some overcompensation in trying to seem communicative, I totally blew "my chance" with Rogue Genius Games.)

[relic10467]

this is my first attempt at the contest. i saw my item the first day when the server continually went down. i am not surprised if my item got culled. i have been gaming for over thirty years and have created a lot of items in my time. i would just like to say that what i saw of the items, i think that some are worthy and some are worse than mine was. i know that people might think what i write here yo be a little silly, but so be it.

[unclefes]

Gotta be honest: when I learned that I was probably out in the first cull, I was pissed off. I've submitted the last 4-5 years, never got anywhere BUT this year I put together what I thought was a really solid entry - it had it's issues but it was definitely and easily my best submission to date. Got culled because Occult Adventures isn't in the PRD :) But reading this thread lends me both perspective and encouragement. EDIT: realize that I wasn't culled but DQ'd, most likely. Statements still stand.

[Zippykat]

pH unbalanced wrote:

Well looks like I'm another one whose item was a victim of the not-so-hypothetical Wednesday cull. I held off posting just to make sure it wasn't a late sighting -- not because I had much hope it would turn up, but because that would have been a lousy way to DQ myself.

Yesterday I was definitely feeling defeated about it -- not because I didn't win, but because I didn't make it into the top half of items. I had believed making it that far was a given. I made the top 100 my first year with an item I believe was not nearly as good as this one. It just made me feel even more distant from what most people like than usual.

Today I'm feeling much more serene. Life goes on. Now I have more time to finish up my villain pitch.

I'm fairly certain I know why voters didn't like my item. I took a chance that I thought would cause a small amount of downvoting, but apparently was much more widely disliked than I expected. So be it. Superstars take chances, and my item turned out exactly the way I wanted it to (minus a few minor errors which will are easily fixed). I asked myself before I submitted if that one choice was a hill I was willing to die on to fully express my vision of thie item, and it was.

I just didn't think it would happen in Cull 4.

Did you name your item "Nickleback, the greatest band of all-time"? That would get my down-vote.

I'm sorry you didn't make it. I was out in the third cull, but this was my first try and I learned a lot and hope to learn more. I hope we never stop learning, not just how to make a better item, but to express that idea in a way that connects.

[pH unbalanced]

Zippykat wrote:

Did you name your item "Nickleback, the greatest band of all-time"? That would get my down-vote.

Oh, I'd be much more likely to go Nickel Creek than Nickelback.

[Monica Marlowe]

Garrick Williams wrote:

Scarletrose wrote:

as a matter of fact it was a dream of mine to become a videogame designer since I was 6 and I did realize that dream.

On the P&P RPG front, I have my system I started to work on I don't know if that's something I will ever complete and publish but... might be.

I'm a software engineer who got into tabletop gaming specifically because I wanted to develop my game design skills. RPG Superstar really propelled me further in that regard.

I tried to make my own RPG as well. I really like the current draft and had a very successful playtest of it. However, I feel it would be better to write a campaign setting book for an existing system than make an entirely new game from scratch. Depending on your goals, I recommend that approach as well. This reduces the scope of the project so you can focus on what's unique to your game, and the game benefits from already having an established community playing the system. The Strange (which uses Numenera's Cypher System) is a great example of this done well.

Just a note, The Strange was conceived by Bruce Cordell, who joined Monte Cook Games because he liked the Cypher System. Until that point his idea was just a setting. The Strange is published by the same publisher of it's gaming system, Monte Cook Games and not a 3PP. But the general statement that creating a setting for an existing system is much easier.

[Monica Marlowe]

unclefes wrote:

Gotta be honest: when I learned that I was probably out in the first cull, I was pissed off. I've submitted the last 4-5 years, never got anywhere BUT this year I put together what I thought was a really solid entry - it had it's issues but it was definitely and easily my best submission to date. Got culled because Occult Adventures isn't in the PRD :) But reading this thread lends me both perspective and encouragement. EDIT: realize that I wasn't culled but DQ'd, most likely. Statements still stand.

This is why you must read the rules and apply them. Paizo is looking for someone who can produce what they're looking to buy. If they ask you to design monsters and you send them magic items, you're not going to get any more gigs from them because you just cost them time and money their developers could be using to develop the monsters you were supposed to send. I'm sorry you felt your item was solid, but if it's not the right item, it doesn't matter in the contest of rules.

[Frumple]

The thing to remember that this is a very tough contest. You might think you have a solid entry, hell you even may have a solid and well designed entry, but the whims of the voters are hard to predict. This year I have seen items that looks to have made it through that I thought were less than stellar as well as items that I thought were really good that got culled. The point is just keep trying and hone your design craft. Take advantage of the forums and 3PP who call for content (especially don't forget about the magazines like Wayfinder).

[Jarrett Sigler]

Another important thing to remember about this contest in particular:

This contest is partially about exposure, and growing your design skills. Some first timers last year got jobs, because of the quality of the item they submitted. It's not a lot of work, but it builds a resume.

The best thing you can do, is post to the "Critique my Item thread" after it's posted.
Adsorb the feedback; let the 3rd party publishers see it. Maybe you didn't grab the voters, but you will grab one of the important 3rd Party Publisher's attention.

Let's face it, that's what your item for the most part is trying to do. Catch the eye of someone who needs a writer and a content builder.

I believe in you.

The "Critique my Item thread" will be started 24 hours AFTER the top 32 have been announced as well as the 4 alternates.