Its use activated, you are spending an action to activate/ continue an effect, so I would look at the guidelines for pricing and the price tables, especially the footnotes where such conditions of use are to be found.
If I had found the guidelines useful I would not be asking. As I see it you get no price break by having a action to use ever turn than having work continuously with no action need. Let me clarify, I'm looking for opinions on how requiring a move action may change the cost over continuous.
NOW back to Snark!!!
I've run out of things to snark about.
I see new stuff sometimes still, but it's either better than snarkworthy or it's snarkable in a way I've already snarked.
So, for now I just vote.
Dedicated Voter Season 9
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I'm looking for opinions on how requiring a move action may change the cost over continuous.
I think this is equivalent to being command word activated (not that I'm really qualified to say). Isn't use-activated more like a ring of featherfall, where it kicks in as soon as you start falling and you don't have to do anything, although it's not continuous as such?
...As usual, the 3 most overlooked considerations that affect cost:
1) Use-activated or Continuous: If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
2) Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.
3) Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.
Good point, Thomas, #1 especially.
On a side note, looking at #3 prompts me to mention something that I've wondered about for quite some time. I readily admit that I may be missing something, but it seems to me that the rationale behind this sentence:
- "For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."
is in opposition to the "No space limitation" entry in the table on this page. The footnote for that entry reads:
- "An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."
The first sentence above indicates an increase in price for slotted items, while the second sentence indicates an increase in price for slotless items. As a general principle, I think an increase in price for slotless items is warranted, since slotless items avoid the opportunity cost associated with filling a slot.
Given that, should the line in the Multiple Different Abilities section instead read something like this:
- "For items that don't take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."
Am I missing something? Can anyone offer a rationale or argument supporting the line in Multiple Different Abilities as written?
When you use item x you can cast spell y as a z level caster... Sounds good but z level caster can't cast that spell! Incredible op item you just got lucky this round.
On a side note, looking at #3 prompts me to mention something that I've wondered about for quite some time. I readily admit that I may be missing something, but it seems to me that the rationale behind this sentence:"For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."
is in opposition to the "No space limitation" entry in the table on this page. The footnote for that entry reads:
"An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."
The first sentence above indicates an increase in price for slotted items, while the second sentence indicates an increase in price for slotless items. As a...
If you have two powers on a slotted item its like having two items slotted in that spot, so the extra cost. not as much as an unslotted item.
Sorry creepy stalker item I will not vote for you so you can magic ruffee your victim!
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...As usual, the 3 most overlooked considerations that affect cost:
1) Use-activated or Continuous: If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.
2) Multiple Similar Abilities: For items with multiple similar abilities that don't take up space on a character's body, use the following formula: Calculate the price of the single most costly ability, then add 75% of the value of the next most costly ability, plus 1/2 the value of any other abilities.
3) Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price.
Good point, Thomas, #1 especially.
On a side note, looking at #3 prompts me to mention something that I've wondered about for quite some time. I readily admit that I may be missing something, but it seems to me that the rationale behind this sentence:
"For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price."
is in opposition to the "No space limitation" entry in the table on this page. The footnote for that entry reads:
"An item that does not take up one of the spaces on a body costs double."
The first sentence above indicates an increase in price for slotted items, while the second sentence indicates an increase in price for slotless items. As a...
Honestly I have found the best way for me, not necessarily for everyone, but for myself to be satisfied with an items price is to look around for similar items, give it a rough price and then ask
"What Big 6 item is this competing with at this price, and would anyone delay that aspect of advancing their big six to get this?"
The pricing rules sometimes end up with extraordinarily expensive or cheap items and really only seem to work directly for SiaC or straight bonus items.
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@ Covent, I agree wholeheartedly. The pricing table is kind of a backup for "gut-instinct" pricing.
That idea is supported by this:
The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.
Honestly I have found the best way for me, not necessarily for everyone, but for myself to be satisfied with an items price is to look around for similar items, give it a rough price and then ask
"What Big 6 item is this competing with at this price, and would anyone delay that aspect of advancing their big six to get this?"
The pricing rules sometimes end up with extraordinarily expensive or cheap items and really only seem to work directly for SiaC or straight bonus items.
This^
Even in the Magic Item Creation rules it sets an example of when NOT to adhere to the pricing guidelines.Example: Rob's cleric wants to create a heavy mace with a continuous true strike ability, granting its wielder a +20 insight bonus on attack rolls. The formula for a continuous spell effect is spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp, for a total of 2,000 gp (spell level 1, caster level 1). Jessica, the GM, points out that a +5 enhancement bonus on a weapon costs 50,000 gp, and the +20 bonus from true strike is much better than the +5 bonus from standard weapon enhancement, and suggests a price of 200,000 gp for the mace. Rob agrees that using the formula in this way is unreasonable and decides to craft a +1 heavy mace using the standard weapon pricing rules instead.
And that's just it, they're guidelines because it's not a perfect science.
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If you have two powers on a slotted item its like having two items slotted in that spot, so the extra cost. not as much as an unslotted item.
Thanks Aaron, that helps.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9
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Honestly I have found the best way for me, not necessarily for everyone, but for myself to be satisfied with an items price is to look around for similar items, give it a rough price and then ask
"What Big 6 item is this competing with at this price, and would anyone delay that aspect of advancing their big six to get this?"
The pricing rules sometimes end up with extraordinarily expensive or cheap items and really only seem to work directly for SiaC or straight bonus items.
This method is really good, but there are alot of items that are _IAC that failed to do so.
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{dances like she has Al Gore rhythm}
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I think there is a creative writing group that said, hey we have this competition you all need to write something for, and this is our theme this year "Booze".
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Oh you well written and clever joke item that actually works vs the other one that shares none of those qualities. This is why you still any probable will remain in the game despite being a joke.
I think there is a creative writing group that said, hey we have this competition you all need to write something for, and this is our theme this year "Booze".I just think lots of gamers are borderline alcoholics. :P
They say to "Write what you know." :)
I liked the brief transition of the Snark thread into the constructive feedback thread. Felt more wholesome.
All well, time for snark.
Oh item that I liked, I was reading you over again to enjoy you and realized I had to submit you for possible DQ. I r dissapoint.
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Oh item that I liked, I was reading you over again to enjoy you and realized I had to submit you for possible DQ. I r dissapoint.
Hundreds of contestants just went "ahh what did I do!"
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Oh item that I liked, I was reading you over again to enjoy you and realized I had to submit you for possible DQ. I r dissapoint.
On the bright side, if the judges check it over and leave it in, it wasn't a DQ and you can go on loving it! :)
Oh item that I liked, I was reading you over again to enjoy you and realized I had to submit you for possible DQ. I r dissapoint.On the bright side, if the judges check it over and leave it in, it wasn't a DQ and you can go on loving it! :)
True!
True!Oh item that I liked, I was reading you over again to enjoy you and realized I had to submit you for possible DQ. I r dissapoint.On the bright side, if the judges check it over and leave it in, it wasn't a DQ and you can go on loving it! :)
Go on loving it anyways, just not for this competition, if it's DQ'ed?
I finally saw my item for the first time in my voting window!
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I really don't get it.
There are still joke items running around...Is someone voting joke items of purpose?
A number of them are much better than the non-joke items, so, yes, I am quite happily voting them up. They're well-designed and would work well in a game, and though most of them are too goofy to work in a rulebook, I would personally like the better ones to be in the Top 100 so the finalists will be compared against items of high caliber. :)
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This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only in complete darkness.
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It appears quite helpful and may be prized by very very good designers.Additionally, it appears mundane and it's true power can only be recognized by high level editors.
However, it comes at a cost: A designer fully attuned to the advice may suddenly start making articles that people want to hire him for.
My question? I was working on a item, I wanted it to have a move action to maintain its effect everturn. You had no limit on uses but it wasn't continuuos, How would you have prized it?EDIT: What Tony the Demon said above.
He's an efreeti, not a demon. ;P
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This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.
Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
Good call!
This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.
Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.
I finally saw my item for the first time in my voting window!
Was it everything you wanted it to be, Ambi? ;)
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Marathon Voter Season 9
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And it lets you speak with dead days after the fact, like that other item that does the same thing. No, the other item that does the same thing. No, the other one. No, the other one. No, the one from last year. No, the other one from last year. No... wait, maybe it was one of the four from two years ago, instead.And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
That's only if the runes inscribed along its hilt are currently glowing a soft blue, which of course only occurs if the bearer is sad.
That's only if the runes inscribed along its hilt are currently glowing a soft blue, which of course only occurs if the bearer is sad.And it lets you speak with dead days after the fact, like that other item that does the same thing. No, the other item that does the same thing. No, the other one. No, the other one. No, the one from last year. No, the other one from last year. No... wait, maybe it was one of the four from two years ago, instead.And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
I thought the blue glow meant you are attuned but the red glow meant you can see the colored auras of other people and then control them.
I just got two items paired against each other that had similarities to a single item I was asked to edit in my Unofficial Edit My Item thread last season. The two items were themselves unrelated to each other, but one had a similar name and the other a similar theme to one item from last season. It was the first time this season I saw either item.
Marathon Voter Season 9
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I thought the blue glow meant you are attuned but the red glow meant you can see the colored auras of other people and then control them.That's only if the runes inscribed along its hilt are currently glowing a soft blue, which of course only occurs if the bearer is sad.And it lets you speak with dead days after the fact, like that other item that does the same thing. No, the other item that does the same thing. No, the other one. No, the other one. No, the one from last year. No, the other one from last year. No... wait, maybe it was one of the four from two years ago, instead.And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
No silly the red glow means it can copy somethings face.
Well this item sucks.
Well now I'm just getting pairs of items that are about equally bad. I've been tempted several times to hit the "equally good/bad" button.
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No silly the red glow means it can copy somethings face.I thought the blue glow meant you are attuned but the red glow meant you can see the colored auras of other people and then control them.That's only if the runes inscribed along its hilt are currently glowing a soft blue, which of course only occurs if the bearer is sad.And it lets you speak with dead days after the fact, like that other item that does the same thing. No, the other item that does the same thing. No, the other one. No, the other one. No, the one from last year. No, the other one from last year. No... wait, maybe it was one of the four from two years ago, instead.And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
Um, just wondering: If people keep quoting quotes that quote quote quote, will the original quote be swallowed by darkness?
The graytoned flag up above is getting darker and darker with each new sub-quote. Is there a limit to the number of sub-quotes?
No silly the red glow means it can copy somethings face.I thought the blue glow meant you are attuned but the red glow meant you can see the colored auras of other people and then control them.That's only if the runes inscribed along its hilt are currently glowing a soft blue, which of course only occurs if the bearer is sad.And it lets you speak with dead days after the fact, like that other item that does the same thing. No, the other item that does the same thing. No, the other one. No, the other one. No, the one from last year. No, the other one from last year. No... wait, maybe it was one of the four from two years ago, instead.And if you die, it raises you as a ghost, and then the weapon becomes dancing and starts hacking away at all your ectoplasms.Oh I forgot that if you and your buddy both have this item you can share your skills and feats.This item x appears to be an ordinary item x, is covered in filigree and runes and when attuned may transform into any of the many kinds of item x, bypass any of the many kinds of DR, or take on any of the various elemental properties. It can also affect incorporeal and haunts but only if you cut yourself and drip your blood on said filigree and runes . And it can also cast magic missile but only at complete darkness.Fixed
"Where're the Cheetos?!"
Um, just wondering: If people keep quoting quotes that quote quote quote, will the original quote be swallowed by darkness?
The graytoned flag up above is getting darker and darker with each new sub-quote. Is there a limit to the number of sub-quotes?
Clearly, we need to find out.