Uhm... what happens if I exceed the 300 word limit?

[Jayson Klein]

Will I be notified, beforehand, if I am POTENTIALLY disqualified because my item's submission exceeds the 300 word limit, to rectify that?

Or... is this a case of "tough noogies", once I submit it?

*nervously fidgets*

[Rose Stack]

You can't take it back after submitting, but using the Preview button on the submission post will give you an official word count.

[Isaac Volynskiy]

They release the yeth hounds.

There's a word count when you preview before submitting though.

[Jayson Klein]

mechaPoet wrote:

You can't take it back after submitting, but using the Preview button on the submission post will give you an official word count.

Well... it's kinda too late now, since I never checked it (I had to check, MANUALLY, in Word).

[Isaac Volynskiy]

I know it doesn't help now, but Word also has a wordcount tool. Just copy and paste a version without all the formatting code first.

[Wren Brown]

Yes, as others have said you only get one chance at submission. Being able to follow directions is a big part of the contest (and freelancing in general). So, if you did submit an entry of more than 300 words you will be disqualified.

If you used word for your word count, it is sleightly different. Still unless you were at 290+ words you should be fine.

[pH unbalanced]

When voting starts, every item in your voting pair will have a wordcount next to it.

If you vote a lot you have a *chance* of seeing your item -- so maybe keep your eyes open and you can let go of that worry before the voting is over.

[Jayson Klein]

Russ Brown wrote:

Yes, as others have said you only get one chance at submission. Being able to follow directions is a big part of the contest (and freelancing in general). So, if you did submit an entry of more than 300 words you will be disqualified.

If you used word for your word count, it is sleightly different. Still unless you were at 290+ words you should be fine.

*uses word count*

378... *sigh*

btw, nice Warforged avatar. Heh

[Jayson Klein]

pH unbalanced wrote:

When voting starts, every item in your voting pair will have a wordcount next to it.

If you vote a lot you have a *chance* of seeing your item -- so maybe keep your eyes open and you can let go of that worry before the voting is over.

I hope so. Thanks for the vouch of confidence.

[Wren Brown]

Jayson Klein wrote:

Russ Brown wrote:

Yes, as others have said you only get one chance at submission. Being able to follow directions is a big part of the contest (and freelancing in general). So, if you did submit an entry of more than 300 words you will be disqualified.

If you used word for your word count, it is sleightly different. Still unless you were at 290+ words you should be fine.

*uses word count*

378... *sigh*

btw, nice Warforged avatar. Heh

Did you include hyperlinks? I know the hyperlinks threw off the word count in my item in google docs by a lot. Hyperlinks don't add to word count very much in the submission tool though.

If so if you had hyperlinks you might want to delete them and recheck the word count in Word.

If you didn't have hyperlinks, ouch! Sorry..

[Jayson Klein]

Russ Brown wrote:

Jayson Klein wrote:

Russ Brown wrote:

Yes, as others have said you only get one chance at submission. Being able to follow directions is a big part of the contest (and freelancing in general). So, if you did submit an entry of more than 300 words you will be disqualified.

If you used word for your word count, it is sleightly different. Still unless you were at 290+ words you should be fine.

*uses word count*

378... *sigh*

btw, nice Warforged avatar. Heh

Did you include hyperlinks? I know the hyperlinks threw off the word count in my item in google docs by a lot. Hyperlinks don't add to word count very much in the submission tool though.

If so if you had hyperlinks you might want to delete them and recheck the word count in Word.

If you didn't have hyperlinks, ouch! Sorry..

No, no hyper links.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

The over word count items are removed before voting opens. Either they have a tool for it or the judges can see word counts for removal.

If your item is under 300 words, but you got creative with your lack of spaces or failure to include parts of the template, I will find and report your item. I have found a bunch every year and expect to find more this year.

[Jayson Klein]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

The over word count items are removed before voting opens. Either they have a tool for it or the judges can see word counts for removal.

If your item is under 300 words, but you got creative with your lack of spaces or failure to include parts of the template, I will find and report your item. I have found a bunch every year and expect to find more this year.

Oh no no. Mine's nothing like that. I typed it up, well.

[Scott Fernandez]

When all else fails, read the directions...

--School of Vrock

[Papasteve08]

Jayson Klein wrote:

Will I be notified, beforehand, if I am POTENTIALLY disqualified because my item's submission exceeds the 300 word limit, to rectify that?

Or... is this a case of "tough noogies", once I submit it?

*nervously fidgets*

Hey Jayson. I have terrible news for you that I learned the very hard way last year. The submission tool tells you how many words your item is. That is the only thing that will tell you that your item would be disqualified.

You won't get an email, or warning, or.... anything. I found out last year that my item had been disqualified when I just never saw it during voting.

The killer thing was that my item itself was about 298, if I remember right. But the submission tool counts the name in the title, and then all of the text in the body, so the name essentially gets counted twice, which put me at 301. I didn't bother to check because I was sure I was just under. I was wrong, and my item was DQ'd. Its a crappy lesson to learn, but I guarantee you won't make the mistake next year!

Sorry about your luck man.

[Adam Daigle]

There have been a saddening number of entries so far this year that make it clear that the entrants didn't completely read the rules of the contest. If your entry was over wordcount, it will be disqualified.

I really hate to be the one to say that, because I want everyone to kick as much ass in this competition as possible. While you may be out of luck this time around, I hope you try again next season.

[Neil Spicer]

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count. Sadly, those submissions have to be rejected, but it's a learning experience for next year. Adam and I have flagged them in the judges' forum for the web team to remove ahead of the public vote (along with any others we notice have violated the rules). If it's any solace, though, 378 words doesn't even come close to the highest word count we've seen.

Spoiler:

That was over 3K. O_O

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Neil Spicer wrote:

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count. Sadly, those submissions have to be rejected, but it's a learning experience for next year. Adam and I have flagged them in the judges' forum for the web team to remove ahead of the public vote (along with any others we notice have violated the rules). If it's any solace, though, 378 words doesn't even come close to the highest word count we've seen.

Spoiler:

That was over 3K. O_O

I kinda want to see that one and bask in it's word count. Wondering it its one of those items that levels up or something that comes in multiple varieties.

[Isaac Volynskiy]

Sounds like personal item backstory territory to me.

[Anti-Lisa's Story Hour]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

Neil Spicer wrote:

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count. Sadly, those submissions have to be rejected, but it's a learning experience for next year. Adam and I have flagged them in the judges' forum for the web team to remove ahead of the public vote (along with any others we notice have violated the rules). If it's any solace, though, 378 words doesn't even come close to the highest word count we've seen.

** spoiler omitted **

I kinda want to see that one and bask in it's word count. Wondering it its one of those items that levels up or something that comes in multiple varieties.

Where's WikiLeaks and Snowden when you really need them?!

I must read this legend!

[Joel Flank]

Also, if you're at 378, there's potentially room to edit it down under 300. Make sure you use active voice rather than passive, that alone can shave 25-50 words off a 350-400 word entry. Then you can look to see if there's anything that can be edited or cut that's nice to have but not really necessarily, particularly if it's backstory, how it's used in the world, or other extras that most often detract from the item. Even if it's all rules crunch, you can generally find something to take out without harming the core of your item. If it does 4 things, are all of them really necessary? Can the item still be awesome and superstar with the three best of them?

[RyanH]

I think he submitted it already ...

[Dieben]

Joel Flank wrote:

Also, if you're at 378, there's potentially room to edit it down under 300. Make sure you use active voice rather than passive, that alone can shave 25-50 words off a 350-400 word entry. Then you can look to see if there's anything that can be edited or cut that's nice to have but not really necessarily, particularly if it's backstory, how it's used in the world, or other extras that most often detract from the item. Even if it's all rules crunch, you can generally find something to take out without harming the core of your item. If it does 4 things, are all of them really necessary? Can the item still be awesome and superstar with the three best of them?

Note to self, ask/beg you to look over my entry next year.

You know your stuff really well.

[Dr. Jan Jansen III, Turnip King]

Neil Spicer wrote:

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count.

Crikey, it's the rozers! {grabs up remaining unsold cursed "shoehorns of the logorrheic writer", hurriedly exits stage left}

[RyanH]

I don't know, with all this talk about the word count I just keep thinking of smiling really big, kicking someone in the chest (into an endless abyss of voting?) and yelling, "THIS IS RPG SUPERSTAR!

[Kalindlara]

RyanH wrote:

I don't know, with all this talk about the word count I just keep thinking of smiling really big, kicking someone in the chest (into an endless abyss of voting?) and yelling, "THIS IS RPG SUPERSTAR!

This calls for a .gif. Get on it, Internet! :D

[Pizza Lord]

Not sure if I read the rules correctly, but the 300 word count says it includes the title of your post, which I believe is also the name of your item. Those words don't actually get counted by the word counter when they display your post.

Quote:

The entire submission, including the title, must not exceed 300 words

It certainly reads, or is easily read, that way. So if the item had a four word name, like, 'The Dongle of Gondor' or something, your word count would have to be at 296. Maybe that should be a bit clarified if that isn't the case, I certainly anguished over it.

[RyanH]

Well, I would think the count is the count it gives you when you hit preview. Which, I don't believe included the title twice as it matched my MS Word count that listed the title once.

[Curaigh]

The title of the THREAD (I presume you mean thread and not post), IS NOT counted. The title of the ITEM, which is included in the body of the post IS counted.

The titles are (should be?) the same. This might confuse people, but the body of the post is what matters on wordcount. Leaving the title of the item out to get under 300 words doesn't help. Thomas was alluding to this above. 300 word-items that did not have the item title in the body have been disqualified* in the past.

EDIT: I am not an official source. I don't think Paizo has ever confirmed this, but said items stopped showing up after being reported.

[pH unbalanced]

Also worth mentioning -- don't use tags in your item name when you put it in the thread title. Every year there are several people whose item shows up as

[b]Seriously Awesome Item[/ b]

And we all snicker. We feel bad about it, and we don't downvote it (much) but we do snicker, and if you make that mistake you will feel shame every time you see your item. So don't do that.

[Neil Spicer]

Curaigh wrote:

...300 word-items that did not have the item title in the body have been disqualified* in the past.

This is correct. I've seen it happen. Multiple times.

Your item's name is supposed to be the title of the thread and in the body of your post. That way, the item's name is displayed in a listing of all the posts for a given forum (i.e., the RPG Superstar forum) and it's part of the body of text you see when you open the thread and read someone's item. If you only put your item name in the thread title, and forgot to put it in your actual post along with the rest of your item's description and information, you're doing it wrong. And, if you forgot to do that...and if we hypothetically were to add your item's name to the body of your post and that carries the word count over 300 words, you will be disqualified.

So, what's the lesson here?

First, don't flirt with the maximum word count. You don't actually need all 300 words to make an item with Superstar mojo. That's been demonstrated repeatedly over the past several contests. And, quite honestly, large word counts are often a sign of a wordy writer and someone who's in love with their own prose or wants to weave in too much backstory or explanation for their item. Elegant design has an appropriate amount of clarity, brevity, and creativity. You bring that kind of mojo and we'll be seeing you in the Top 32.

Secondly, read the rules so you're fully aware that the item name needs to be in the thread title AND your thread post. Even if you're unsure...or the rules seem unclear upon reading them...avail yourself of the past 8 seasons of RPG Superstar and go look at what prior Top 32 item submissions have done, and then emulate that. If you're not sure about how to do proper formatting here in the forums...i.e., so you understand the difference between a thread title and a thread post, ask someone. You'll either be pointed to those prior Top 32 examples, or any number of folks will help you by explaining how the forum posts work.

[Pizza Lord]

I think the trouble was that the 300 word count limit included the title of your submission, but that the title is not counted and added to the word count when you click preview. I have tested it. I changed the name in the title around and the word count remained the same, only counting the body of the text.

So if you are making an item and the board word count places you at 298, but your title, which is also the item name is 3 or more words, then you would be over the limit.

Quote:

The entire submission, including the title, must not exceed 300 words

If that is, or is not, the case, then this part might need to be clarified.

I think people are interchanging the words 'title' and 'item name' and it's confusing whether 'entire submission, including the title' includes the 'entire submission', including the title.

That's a fair thing to want to know about, because it's been made very clear that any such error and your submission is gone. Period. You probably won't even find out about it, you'll just spend hours and hours clicking through votes and never seeing your item and have to wait an entire year to try again. That's a horrible place and feeling.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Pizza Lord wrote:

I think the trouble was that the 300 word count limit included the title of your submission, but that the title is not counted and added to the word count when you click preview. I have tested it. I changed the name in the title around and the word count remained the same, only counting the body of the text.

So if you are making an item and the board word count places you at 298, but your title, which is also the item name is 3 or more words, then you would be over the limit.

Quote:

The entire submission, including the title, must not exceed 300 words

If that is, or is not, the case, then this part might need to be clarified.

I think people are interchanging the words 'title' and 'item name' and it's confusing whether 'entire submission, including the title' includes the 'entire submission', including the title.

In past years, the title of the item placed in the Entry Name box at the top didn't count against the word count. But the name of the item in the body box does. Looking at my past messages, I only DQed 1 item for missing the item name in the submission, which would have taken it over word count if included.

[Pizza Lord]

Thomas LeBlanc wrote:

In past years, the title of the item placed in the Entry Name box at the top didn't count against the word count.

If that is the case, then the word count preview for the entry is accurate. It's just the rule wording that is misleading. This might save a bit of nervous paranoia then. There's still plenty to go around.

[RyanH]

If you put your name in both spots (title and body) and use the reported word count, you're good.

If you misread the rules and count the name twice, you are good (with some words to spare)

You are only NOT good if you don't put the name in the body ... 1) you're not putting the name in the body as you should and 2) you MAY be over word count.

[Monica Marlowe]

Neil Spicer wrote:

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count. Sadly, those submissions have to be rejected, but it's a learning experience for next year. Adam and I have flagged them in the judges' forum for the web team to remove ahead of the public vote (along with any others we notice have violated the rules). If it's any solace, though, 378 words doesn't even come close to the highest word count we've seen.

Spoiler:

That was over 3K. O_O

I wasn't going to say anything, but I feel like I need to - over 3k words is longer than the Round 5/Top 4 adventure pitch length.

As an aside, were these 3k words good? Do they fit in Nar-Voth? I'm asking for a friend. ;-)

[Clay Clouser]

No Monica. just...no.

[Anthony Adam]

Maybe it had an amazing background, something like...

Marmasula's Dream Engine

/// template stuff

Description
In the beginning, there was the void. The gods saw this emptiness and thought to fill it with wonder. This errant thought created the lights we now call stars, and the firmaments coalesced around these lights. These we call planets.

The gods whose thoughts created this allowed a wild energy known as "magic" to permeate this creation, and so the varied races and creatures came to be, infused with this energy and proved fruitful.

It was not long before the creatures discovered the diversity that magic fueled life gives access to, and so this item was born of their minds, created at the dawn of recorded time...

... 2,700 more words give or take

Construction
... etc.

[Amy Gillespie]

Blast! I knew I was missing something from the rules. That's what you get for trying to post while on vacation with limited connectivity - from a phone! ;)

[Andrew Marlowe]

Neil Spicer wrote:

Every year, there are people who don't read the directions or rules for the contest and they submit items over word count. Sadly, those submissions have to be rejected, but it's a learning experience for next year. Adam and I have flagged them in the judges' forum for the web team to remove ahead of the public vote (along with any others we notice have violated the rules). If it's any solace, though, 378 words doesn't even come close to the highest word count we've seen.

** spoiler omitted **

Monica Marlowe wrote:

....As an aside, were these 3k words good? Do they fit in Nar-Voth? I'm asking for a friend. ;-)

I suppose individually they were fine words and your friend could probably use them if Neil was to give them to you...your friend. I suspect however, they would be in a totally inappropriate order for your "friend's" needs. It would probably require losing a few words and adding others to be entirely satisfying.

[Papasteve08]

Pizza Lord wrote:

Not sure if I read the rules correctly, but the 300 word count says it includes the title of your post, which I believe is also the name of your item. Those words don't actually get counted by the word counter when they display your post.

Quote:

The entire submission, including the title, must not exceed 300 words

It certainly reads, or is easily read, that way. So if the item had a four word name, like, 'The Dongle of Gondor' or something, your word count would have to be at 296. Maybe that should be a bit clarified if that isn't the case, I certainly anguished over it.

THIS is the exact reason why my item got DQd last year (and because when I previewed, I neglected to look at the word count and only reviewed my formatting code. This is what happens when you listen to Microsoft Word and don't pay attention to the actual submission tool)

[Papasteve08]

Anthony Adam wrote:

Marmasula's Dream Engine

... etc.

Whew... I am NOT the only one who reads Mamaursula with the R in the wrong place... Marma just rolls off the tounge so much easier...

;)

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Papasteve08 wrote:

Anthony Adam wrote:

Marmasula's Dream Engine

... etc.

Whew... I am NOT the only one who reads Mamaursula with the R in the wrong place... Marma just rolls off the tounge so much easier...

;)

I do this too (sorry, Monica). For some reason, my brain made a link between her screen name and Heart's "Barracuda", and that's how I hear it ("Marmasula") in my head.

[Mike Welham]

Papasteve08 wrote:

Anthony Adam wrote:

Marmasula's Dream Engine

... etc.

Whew... I am NOT the only one who reads Mamaursula with the R in the wrong place... Marma just rolls off the tounge so much easier...

;)

Just don't call her Marmitesula.

[LazarX]

Jayson Klein wrote:

Will I be notified, beforehand, if I am POTENTIALLY disqualified because my item's submission exceeds the 300 word limit, to rectify that?

Or... is this a case of "tough noogies", once I submit it?

*nervously fidgets*

If you're over 300 words, than you can rest assured that your item will be DQed on examination. It's repeatedly spelled out that you MUST check your work rigorously before putting in that submit button. And templates are provided for your guidance. There are no excuses for not doing it right. Put your text in a word processor... get a word count... and check it yourself. Being a professional means not taking short cuts.

Remember there's only one winner in this contest, and these strict submission rules are a major method in weeding out folks that don't have professional level discipline in executing work given that the grand prize is to do an actual major piece of work for Paizo with your name on it that people like us will be laying out cash for.

Superstar is run as a professional request for professional level freelance work, which means adhering to strict submission parameters.

[Flanwaw]

3K... Man, I'd put that in the top 32 out of sheer respect for the dedication that must take - assuming the entire submission is coherent, formatted, is balanced, etc.

[R Pickard]

Not to mention, sticking to a word count is really not what I'd call "strict." It's bog-standard to the publication industry, and the first thing ANY writer for ANY kind of vaguely writing related profession needs to be able to do. Exceeding a word limit will result in instant rejection for the majority of publishers, from academic journals to fantasy fiction and beyond, whether blog piece, magazine article, or printed hardcover. If you're LUCKY, someone MIGHT ask you to pare down your piece post submission, but that's normally after you have an established reputation with that publisher/editor and you've specifically been invited to submit a key piece, and even then, that's rare.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people just read "contest" and get excited, and don't really think about what it is they are submitting to--a chance to show off professional potential. Some folks don't get past "ooh, enter for a chance to win!" I wish there were a way to discourage that, but I don't know if it's possible.

[Thomas LeBlanc]

Found 3 items with word counts at 300, or barely under, I submitted for DQ.

Incorrect:
hitpoints
DC#
#lb
#ft

Correct:
hit points
DC #
# lb
# ft

[LazarX]

R Pickard wrote:

Not to mention, sticking to a word count is really not what I'd call "strict." It's bog-standard to the publication industry, and the first thing ANY writer for ANY kind of vaguely writing related profession needs to be able to do. Exceeding a word limit will result in instant rejection for the majority of publishers, from academic journals to fantasy fiction and beyond, whether blog piece, magazine article, or printed hardcover. If you're LUCKY, someone MIGHT ask you to pare down your piece post submission, but that's normally after you have an established reputation with that publisher/editor and you've specifically been invited to submit a key piece, and even then, that's rare.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people just read "contest" and get excited, and don't really think about what it is they are submitting to--a chance to show off professional potential. Some folks don't get past "ooh, enter for a chance to win!" I wish there were a way to discourage that, but I don't know if it's possible.

There are... and they ARE implemented in the numerous warnings, but if the author can't even be troubled to pay attention to the word count in the submission mechanic, it has to be pointed out that you can only dumb down things so much before you get to a point of diminishing returns. And the idea of a contest like this is to filter out people who won't take the time and effort to abide by professional guidelines.

[Isaac Volynskiy]

I'm sure the people that went over 300 words have adequately realized their mistake by now.