RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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I had arguments with folks about playing characters with impairments. Many of them wanted to play a blind swordsman, but refused to actually deal with the impairment. They argued their GM in home games should give them blindsight for free, but I strongly believe that completely negates the impairment entirely and therefore the cool factor of the concept. So, I want to put my money where my mouth is. I want to play a self-reliant blind character in PFS where I won't have a GM or a consistent group of players coddle me.
Particularly, I'm interested in playing a blind kitsune kinectist. I don't want to get levels in oracle. But I'm not sure if it's legal for me to have self-imposed restrictions on my character like that.
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Being blind in pathfinder is crippling. It will completely make you character an invalid in combat or in several social situations, and will be an unfair burden on other players, as you will not be able to meaningfully contribute to the success of the mission. Especially as a kinectist, you will be unable to even target anything with your ranged blasts. I don't know if it is specifically banned, but it should be under the don't be a jerk rule if nothing else.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Burdening the table is the last thing I want. That's why I brought this up here. I'm interested if it's legal to create some kind of self-imposed impairment on my character as long as it doesn't make other people at the table miserable.
If not blindness, then how about some lesser form of it, such as everything having concealment (as opposed to total concealment)? In one of my early concepts of the character, her blindness only affects what isn't lit up by her fire. She can see clearly within the light of her own flames -- anything else is darkness. This might be subtle enough to not be a problem at the table. For most players, they might just think she's some kind of obsessive pyromaniac that ALWAYS wants a little flame or a fire thrower that only aims for what's within 20 feet of her.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I agree with Jeff (you can voluntarily subject your PC to a sightless condition at the beginning of each game, but the rules don't allow such a condition to carry over from one adventure to the next) and with Imbicatus (make sure the rest of your party is cool with the idea).
I think andreww has a good idea.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Basically, what you are doing is adding rules to the game. That is awesome in a home game. Not so much in PFS.
At best you would get to the end of your first game, and your character would end the game with a condition with mechanical effect that you cannot cure and be marked dead. At worst your character's complete inability to make perception checks or move faster than half speed without making a reflex check would mean that you simply don't participate in most parts of the game and as a result the rest of the party dies.
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The best option I can thank of is to always wear Smoked Goggles. They are 10 gold, give you a +8 to saves vs gaze attacks, a -4 on perception checks, and all creatures are treated as if they had concealment for you.
Venture-Captain, Minnesota
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If you want to be a blind swordsman, why not be a battle or ancestor or metal oracle with clouded vision curse?
Here are some of the things you can do:
1) Be a half-elf and take the ancestral weapon racial trait to get proficiency in the awesome sword of your choice, no matter what oracle mystery you go with.
2) Max your strength, go with a charisma of 14, and use your spells for buffs like divine favor and bless.
3) Go war-sighted and get the martial flexibility of a brawler.
You could have an awesome blind swordsman legally in PFS off an oracle chassis.
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I have a character with a double impediment to speech. She is deaf and wolf-scarred. Having a mutated face and being unable to hear, I just have her write everything in a journal/book. In combat, I sometimes use a move/standard (depending on how much I need to write) to write important stuff out and hold it up. I then stomp. She's a Life Oracle with Life Link and Channels.
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Building upon what others have suggested - I think a combination of a blindfold and role-playing will do it.
You may argue that your character believes themselves to be blind, and therefore wears the blindfold. If asked "But - is your character *really* blind?", just smile and shrug. It's almost a moot question. He's wearing a blindfold!
I'd be tempted to take a level in cleric with the darkness domain - it'd fit thematically as well as picking up the blind-fight feat for free.
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And quite frankly if we were going to explore a dungeon, your character would have to give mine a real good reason as to why you'd insist on wearing your fetish goggles.
They don't have to be fetish goggles. They can be dark sunglasses just as those normally worn by the blind. Perhaps your character has light sensitivity. They can also be easily handwaved as cataracts or a blindfold or whatever. They are a mechanical construct to allow a vision impaired character without being completely useless or relying on a specific class feature.
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I have a PC in my group who, after First Steps 1 and 2, always wears smoke goggles and took the Blind-Fight feat so he still has a reasonable chance of hitting enemies.
My GF took smoke goggles after fighting a basilisk, and when we encountered a second basilisk last week she still ended up petrified through the goggles. She rolled a 1 on her save, used her reroll and got a 2.
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I have a PC in my group who, after First Steps 1 and 2, always wears smoke goggles and took the Blind-Fight feat so he still has a reasonable chance of hitting enemies.My GF took smoke goggles after fighting a basilisk, and when we encountered a second basilisk last week she still ended up petrified through the goggles. She rolled a 1 on her save, used her reroll and got a 2.
So she really got stoned? *ducks*
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I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk. I think just doing a blindfold is the only way to be blinds all the time.
If you want a guy bad at seeing even without the blindfold, you could make a wayang, dump wisdom, and then be an alchemist or mutagen using brawler and make dex mutagen, bringing yer wisdom to 3, with the smoke goggles your perception would be a solid -7, meaning you really couldn't see anything past ten feet unless it was large sized or larger.
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With a blindfold, sure. You could also get Blindness/Deafness or similar cast each session, but since actual blindness that's not from a class feature has to be cleared at the end of each session, or the character is retired, this would get a bit expensive since you won't be able to do it yourself.
I'm just gonna point out that blindness deafness is dismissable, so it shouldn't actually cost anything to remove it.
Getting it each session will actually not even cost that much, since it's only need 2nd level spell. Should be 60gp, or 180 per level which is really quite negligible. The cost is low enough you could have it from the first session even. I would tell the gm before each session how yer blind, but this really should work.
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I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk.
Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Being blind prevents these goals.
You can't explore because you can't move without falling, and you can't see where you go. You can't report because you can't read any notes or documents you may find. Braile isn't a Golarion language. You can't cooperate because you are incapable of helping in a combat situation or in anything needing sight.
Expressly building a PC that is unable to meet the basic goals of the society is being a jerk. It's taking your desire to be a special snowflake and putting it above the success conditions of the party and the scenario.
The perma-goggles or oracle curse are compromises that don't make your character useless in 80% of the relative challenges you will face in a scenario and allow you still contribute meaningfully while still having part of your concept.
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I have a 7th-level character who wears a blindfold. She currently only wears it about half the time (she's training with it). At 10th level, she will wear it all the time.
Here are some of the ways that she "burdens" her party:
- Adjacent allies get a +4 bonus to AC most rounds;
- Once per day, if she can touch an evil enemy, then she takes half the damage that the touched enemy inflicts against her allies instead of them;
- She can lay on hands;
- Next level she will have a 6d6 cold breath weapon;
- And she can also simply tank; she is very good at standing in the doorway and letting ranged allies lob shots over her head (she's a halfling).
You can build a character around this concept. Make sure that you are still contributing toward the group. The clouded vision oracle is a good idea (I have one of those also, they are fun). You can use a blindfold to effectively blind your character. Some other tips:
- Get the Blind-Fight feat. It will help a lot.
- If you can get access to blindsense, or even better blindsight, do so. Some polymorph effects allow this, and there are other ways as well.
- You can target creatures with spells if you can touch them. Buffing works okay with blindness, but some of the higher-level buffs are going to give your party a bit more trouble (like haste) unless they are all willing to stand right next to you for a round.
- Bardic performance doesn't depend on your sight. You can inspire courage to help your allies all day long without seeing a thing. Same with channel energy (though Selective Channeling won't work). Look for other effects like that to help your party.
As long as you are a contributing member of the group, I think you'll be okay. Some people will moan and groan when you tell them that your character is blind, but when you start saving their characters' lives, they'll forget about it.
Explore, Report, Cooperate.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk.Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Being blind prevents these goals.
Untrue. Being blind may hinder these goals, it may make achieving the goals more challenging, but it doesn't prevent them. While I know we are only talking about fictional characters here, we are dangerously close to essentially saying that people with some sort of disability are incapable of doing things those without such disabilities can do.
Let's not further head down that road, please.
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I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk.Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Being blind prevents these goals.
Untrue. Being blind may hinder these goals, it may make achieving the goals more challenging, but it doesn't prevent them. While I know we are only talking about fictional characters here, we are dangerously close to essentially saying that people with some sort of disability are incapable of doing things those without such disabilities can do.
Let's not further head down that road, please.
Exactly.
It was difficult for me to tell one of my close friends that she cannot play a deaf character in PFS (other than the deafness curse), that such characters are illegal.
This friend of mine is deaf. She is also not disabled. She is an MD in a very difficult specialty. She served in the Peace Corps. She is fluent in 3 languages (she reads lips). And she is super athletic (and very competitive).
When I told her that she could not build a deaf barbarian, said that she wouldn't play PFS. I agree with her—it's insulting.
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I had an idea that sort of went along these lines. Tengu Oracle with the Clouded Vision curse. They have a favored class bonus that lets you advance their Curse by 0.5 effective levels every actual level. About halfway into your PFS carreer, you can get Blindsense. Plus, Tengu are all about that sword life, so you can rock whatever blade you fancy.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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Yes, people with disabilities can be productive citizens, as anyone else. The main reason for that is that modern day civilisations have done things to make that possible, such as the invention of braille, special training facilities, and even the little things such as audio-assisted crosswalks and Braille on every single elevator button in public facilities.However being blind, or especially blind and deaf a few centuries before Helen Keller meant that you WERE seriously screwed as far as how society accommodated you. And lets be honest here. You really do have problems in the uncivilized wilds.
I want to be clear: I don't think the rules permit someone to play a blind or deaf character (though certain class features, like the Oracle's Curse certainly can get close.)
But we're talking about a world where characters wield magic, harness the power of the gods, etc. It isn't exactly apples to apples to compare the world in which such characters exist to the world in which Helen Keller or her predecessors lived.
Your point is well taken - it's just the general implication of some of the comments that I am objecting to.
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I have a 7th-level character who wears a blindfold. She currently only wears it about half the time (she's training with it). At 10th level, she will wear it all the time.
Here are some of the ways that she "burdens" her party:
- Adjacent allies get a +4 bonus to AC most rounds;
- Once per day, if she can touch an evil enemy, then she takes half the damage that the touched enemy inflicts against her allies instead of them;
- She can lay on hands;
- Next level she will have a 6d6 cold breath weapon;
- And she can also simply tank; she is very good at standing in the doorway and letting ranged allies lob shots over her head (she's a halfling).
You can build a character around this concept. Make sure that you are still contributing toward the group. The clouded vision oracle is a good idea (I have one of those also, they are fun). You can use a blindfold to effectively blind your character. Some other tips:
- Get the Blind-Fight feat. It will help a lot.
- If you can get access to blindsense, or even better blindsight, do so. Some polymorph effects allow this, and there are other ways as well.
- You can target creatures with spells if you can touch them. Buffing works okay with blindness, but some of the higher-level buffs are going to give your party a bit more trouble (like haste) unless they are all willing to stand right next to you for a round.
- Bardic performance doesn't depend on your sight. You can inspire courage to help your allies all day long without seeing a thing. Same with channel energy (though Selective Channeling won't work). Look for other effects like that to help your party.
As long as you are a contributing member of the group, I think you'll be okay. Some people will moan and groan when you tell them that your character is blind, but when you start saving their characters' lives, they'll forget about it.
Explore, Report, Cooperate.
this exactly. i read the posts saying being blind is just being a burden and wonder how a blind person would feel knowing that was said. pfs should be welcoming of all types, and stating that playing a disability means you are being a jerk says more about you than the other person
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I disagree with people saying doing this is being a jerk.Explore! Report! Cooperate!
Being blind prevents these goals.
Untrue. Being blind may hinder these goals, it may make achieving the goals more challenging, but it doesn't prevent them. While I know we are only talking about fictional characters here, we are dangerously close to essentially saying that people with some sort of disability are incapable of doing things those without such disabilities can do.
Let's not further head down that road, please.
Exactly.
It was difficult for me to tell one of my close friends that she cannot play a deaf character in PFS (other than the deafness curse), that such characters are illegal.
This friend of mine is deaf. She is also not disabled. She is an MD in a very difficult specialty. She served in the Peace Corps. She is fluent in 3 languages (she reads lips). And she is super athletic (and very competitive).
When I told her that she could not build a deaf barbarian, said that she wouldn't play PFS. I agree with her—it's insulting.
well, technically she can play one, it just costs 60gp per session. see my post above
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this exactly. i read the posts saying being blind is just being a burden and wonder how a blind person would feel knowing that was said. pfs should be welcoming of all types, and stating that playing a disability means you are being a jerk says more about you than the other person
Let me be clear. I am not talking about real world blindness. The blind are in no way a burden on other in the real world thanks to awareness and tools that help them cope. My comments are based on game rules.
The game makes it so that you cannot effectively do many things that are necessary to survive combat if you character can not see. You can overcome these slightly if you have the blind fight tree or access to heightened senses such as scent, blindsense, blindsight, or termorsense. These are far beyond the reach of most characters.
The fact remains that in game being blind means you cannot meaningfully contribute to combat. You are flat-footed against everything. You cannot take AoOs. You cannot make ranged attacks. You have a 50% miss chance on all attacks. You cannot move without risking falling. You cannot read. You cannot make perception checks for visual clues. You cannot overcome these conditions while remaining blind without magic that is beyond your reach.
The game world doesn't have any of the resources that the blind have in the real world, because blindness is cheaply curable in pathfinder. Remove Blindness is only 150 gold.
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There is a magic item in Ultimate Equipment, which is a blindfold that makes you, well, blind, but it gives you blindsense within the range of your weapon. If you have a Longsword, then you have blindsense within all directly adjacent squares. For you have a weapon with ten-foot reach, then you would have blindsense in a 10-feet radius... Though honestly, a kitsune wouldn't be using a lance on foot.
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The fact remains that in game being blind means you cannot meaningfully contribute to combat (unless you are a summoner/buffer, or take Blind-Fight). You are flat-footed against everything (unless you take Blind-Fight). You cannot take AoOs. You cannot make ranged attacks (you actually can, it's just really crappy—less so if your allies keep you up-to-date on locations and you memorize what "clock positions" mean). You have a 50% miss chance on all attacks (which is halved if you take Blind-Fight). You cannot move without risking falling (unless you take Blind-Fight). You cannot read (which will be really awesome when you run into an Explosive Runes trap, which is one of the few times "Okay, who in the party can read?" actually matters in the least). You cannot make perception checks for visual clues. You cannot overcome these conditions while remaining blind without magic that is beyond your reach (you actually can literally overcome or mitigate most of them with a single feat, so this sentence is flat-out wrong, sorry).
It's funny how often people in these threads forget how good Blind-Fight is.
The other items are perfectly real drawbacks (losing a quarter of your melee attacks and not being able to direct certain spells can suck), but blind characters do get one major benefit: Perfect immunity to tactics or special attacks that target sight. Medusas? More like meh-losahs. Cut that bit. Cut it. Deeper Darkness? What's that? Illusions/Mirror Image? Again, what are those? Fascination? Is that that thing where all your teammates freeze up and you have to save their asses? Man, sighted people are really holding you back in those encounters. Why do you even put up with them?
Blindness is a huge detriment, but with a good build, it's really not that far from the guy who shows up with his gnome barbarian with 18 Charisma and 12 Strength and an oversized bastard sword. Or the guy who plays Harsk.
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Also, area-of-effect blasters can still throw around spells like burning hands or fireball even while blinded. For area-of-effect spells, one only needs to designate the point of origin by describing it. If they have an ally act as a spotter for them they are fine. "Drop a fireball 45 feet straight ahead, about 5 feet to the left and 5 feet off the floor! Fire for effect!"
Only spells that have Target or Targets in the spell description require line of sight to cast. And even those can be cast on creatures the spell-caster manages to touch (either because the target is an ally, or by making a touch attack).
