I have an older published source book that has an NPC villain who uses a necklace of strangulation to sneak up behind characters and slips it over their heads. With more recent descriptions of the item this mode of attack can apparently only be used once a month, assuming that the NPC can even retrieve the necklace a month after its use. But, other than this limitation, this seams to be an awfully powerful, and perhaps, unfair mode of attack and yet, assuming the NPC is able to attack with surprise, a fairly easy method of attack. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? Note, I'm also concerned about PCs using this method later on against my NPCs.
You could immediate action teleport away, maybe with a hostile juxtaposition.
Really, you have to avoid having it put on your neck unless you've got a limited wish handy.
If a good or neutral PC used that as a weapon, I would rule that they are starting the fast track path to evil, warn the player that an alignment change was in the works.
In any event, after the first use someone could steal the thing, either to destroy it or to use it for their own purposes.
If a good or neutral PC used that as a weapon, I would rule that they are starting the fast track path to evil, warn the player that an alignment change was in the works.
How is it any more Evil than stabbing people?
If a good or neutral PC used that as a weapon, I would rule that they are starting the fast track path to evil, warn the player that an alignment change was in the works.How is it any more Evil than stabbing people?
This reminds me of the "slipping a bag of devouring over someone's head" trick.
For me, and this is personal opinion so nobody get excited, creating and using a cursed item, especially the Necklace of Strangulation, or the Bag of Devouring used as Scythia mentioned, is analogous to the real world creation and use of chemical and biological agents in warfare. It isn't remotely a fair fight, it definitely isn't self-defense, it most certainly isn't heroic, it's murder, just like stabbing and killing defenseless creatures in their beds. Ultimately I never use the cursed items, and have rarely played evil characters. That's just not the type of game that I enjoy.
Consider me 'excited'.
Evil Wizard attacks orphanage. I put a Necklace of Strangulation on him. Even if he teleports away, even if he's invisible and mindblanked and far out of my reach, the orphans are safe from that demon, forever, because he'll be dead soon.
You wouldn't make a character Evil for casting any other damage over time spell, would you? Cursed Items are just weapons disguised as gear. There's no inherent moral issues.
I've had characters "gift" them to NPC characters who didn't yet realize that I was a foe.
I have an older published source book that has an NPC villain who uses a necklace of strangulation to sneak up behind characters and slips it over their heads. With more recent descriptions of the item this mode of attack can apparently only be used once a month, assuming that the NPC can even retrieve the necklace a month after its use. But, other than this limitation, this seams to be an awfully powerful, and perhaps, unfair mode of attack and yet, assuming the NPC is able to attack with surprise, a fairly easy method of attack. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? Note, I'm also concerned about PCs using this method later on against my NPCs.
Wouldn't actually HAVE to wait a month... theres a spell that reduces a body to bones.
Consider me 'excited'.
Evil Wizard attacks orphanage. I put a Necklace of Strangulation on him. Even if he teleports away, even if he's invisible and mindblanked and far out of my reach, the orphans are safe from that demon, forever, because he'll be dead soon.
You wouldn't make a character Evil for casting any other damage over time spell, would you? Cursed Items are just weapons disguised as gear. There's no inherent moral issues.
Well, if he's Mindblank he's casting 8th level spells... so he can cast the 7th level Limited Wish to remove it xD
Then again, I can kind of see your point. PF is not amazing at drawing lines on what's Evil.
Namely, the "tentacle rape them until they go insane" spell has no alignment tags, completely fair game for LN Kuthites.
There is no mention of assault by anything other than maddening words in that spell, what you add to it is on you.
For me, and this is personal opinion so nobody get excited, creating and using a cursed item, especially the Necklace of Strangulation, or the Bag of Devouring used as Scythia mentioned, is analogous to the real world creation and use of chemical and biological agents in warfare. It isn't remotely a fair fight, it definitely isn't self-defense, it most certainly isn't heroic, it's murder, just like stabbing and killing defenseless creatures in their beds. Ultimately I never use the cursed items, and have rarely played evil characters. That's just not the type of game that I enjoy.
It's not something I've ever used or seen used in a game, it's from an old list of "making cursed items useful", which also included blocking your ears, spreading breadcrumbs, and using a chime of hunger.
The Necklace is a tool, like a Dagger, Sword, Sneak Attack Dd6s or a Poison. Neither of which has a direct alignment component.
What you do with it might have an alignment component.
Killing the Bugbear-Guard in the Tower of Evil Kittenkillers with a Necklace of Strangulation is just the same as if he'd have his back stabbed by the party Rogue for all those extra D6s.
And if you kill good king Goodyshoes, it doesnt matter if you did it with a Dagger or with a Necklace of Strangulation.
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OP question:
1) to put the necklace on an victim he need to be one of
- helpless
- pinned
- willing to put up the necklace
- maybe there is some feat or spell (like Beguiling gift) that can bypass some of those limitations, but you need the right feat/spell.
2) "It cannot be removed by any means short of a limited wish, wish, or miracle and remains clasped around the victim's throat even after his death." don't mean that it can't be made temporarily non magical by an anti magic field and removed as a normal necklace, that the magic can't be temporarily suppressed by dispel magic, that it can't be sundered and so on.
There are ways to counter the item as it isn't an artifact.
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Pizza, limited wish is needed to remove it, if it function. A successful dispel magic stop if from functioning for 1d4 rounds.
Your car engine can propel your car at 150 mph, but if I disable the transmission you go nowhere.
Adding a teleporting ability you are changing the object. The ability you cite isn't one that all cursed weapon have. It was a specific ability that some cursed weapon had in the 1st and 2nd edition of D&D and isn't present in the current description of the weapons.
Sword, –2 Cursed
All damage dealt is also reduced by 2 points, but never below a minimum of 1 point of damage on any successful hit. The sword always forces that character to employ it rather than another weapon. The sword's owner automatically draws it and fights with it even when she meant to draw or ready some other weapon.
Very limited. If the -2 curse sword isn't on you but in a chest at your house, it don't teleport in your hand. And it don't force you to run home to recover it.
Don't mix how it worked in other editions of the game with how it work now.
Why wouldn't remove curse allow one to remove it? I'm pretty sure that would work on all non-artifact cursed items. Doesn't the spell's specificity outweigh that of the necklace?
The easiest solution as a GM is simply to say you can't purposefully craft cursed items. That they can only be created through the accidental failure of creating another item.
Cursed items (IMO) are meant to be used by the GM, not by the players.
Questions of whether or not using the necklace as an offensive weapon is an evil act are beside the point, since my evil NPC cares nothing about morality, and even my neutral PCs have been known to commit murder in my opinion.
I would also have to agree with Pizza Lord. I don't think a dispel magic or even an anti-magic field would be sufficient to stop the necklace from strangling a character, since it states specifically what can stop it. In the case of a dispel magic or a anti-magic field, it could be that, while the magic of the necklace stops functioning, it still does not loosen its grip on the character's neck. Perhaps the necklace works by shrinking in size around the neck. Preventing the magic of the necklace from working may stop it from shrinking any further, but it also may not allow it to expand to its original size.
As for how it might be used, I'm thinking that a particularly stealthy character could easily sneak up behind someone, perhaps invisibly, and slip the necklace over the victim's neck. I, of course, would allow the victim a perception check to notice his attacker. But with an invisible and stealthy attacker, he would have very little chance of noticing the attacker. Which in essence means instant death with no chance of survival unless someone can can quickly produce a limited wish - my party of PCs cannot and neither can the vast majority of NPCs.
I would also require the attacker to make an attack roll as well, probably a touch attack but with a penalty and, depending on whether or not the victim was surprised, with or without any Dex related bonuses. If the victim was surprised, his AC then would likely be very low and thus very easy for the attacker to slip the necklace over the victim's head. I think the modifier for the added difficulty to perform the maneuver (as opposed to simply touching the victim) might be in the range of -4 to the attack - or possibly more.
Since the attack, would not be all that difficult to perform if using the above guidelines, and it means unavoidable death if successful, I'm also thinking of allowing the victim a Ref save to, at the last second, avoid the attack - possibly with a DC of 20.
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For reference, here's the text of the Necklace of Strangulation:
Necklace of Strangulation
Aura strong conjuration; CL 18th
Slot neck; Weight —
Description
A necklace of strangulation appears to be a wondrous piece of magical jewelry. When placed on the neck, the necklace immediately tightens, dealing 6 points of damage per round. It cannot be removed by any means short of a limited wish, wish, or miracle and remains clasped around the victim's throat even after his death. Only when he has decayed to a dry skeleton (after approximately 1 month) does the necklace loosen, ready for another victim.
Creation
Magic Items necklace of adaptation, necklace of fireballs, periapt of health, periapt of proof against poison, periapt of wound closure
Methods of dealing with the Necklace of Strangulation, just with the CRB:
1.) It's a quest! Your PC's have heard about the murderer and their methods, and have time to prepare themselves as they attempt to bring them to justice. When dealing with a Banshee or Siren, you'd bring some form of silence, right? Similarly, they'd probably bring some form of protection presented below if they knew about it ahead of time.
2.) Sunder attempt and hope you don't roll a 1 on the attack. I'd say a reasonable approximation would be the manacles from this table. 10 hardness and 10 hitpoint. Increased or decreased as appropriate for your story. It'd be mean to make it out of adamantine, but mithral might make sense.
3.) Armor that covers the neck would stop it, because the necklace specifically only works "when placed on the neck". It's up to the GM's discretion whether it would strangle through simple cloth, leather or even chainmail, but solid plating should definitely keep you safe and prevent the necklace from triggering at all.
4.) Gaseous Form says that "the subject and all its gear" are effected. It's up to GM discretion, but I'd rule that the necklace is the enemy's gear (a weapon) unless the PC accepts it due to another effect. An example effect could be Beguiling Gift. At that point the necklace would travel with the character in Gaseous Form, and would still kill them because it's continuously active. If the PC did NOT accept the item and are actually being attacked with it, I'd allow it to simply fall to the ground if Gaseous Form were cast on them within the round. I would allow Wind Walk, Ethereal Jaunt or Etherealness to do the same. I'd even allow Reduce Person or any of the teleportation spells to let you slip away, for that matter. Again, I would rule it would have to be cast the same round the necklace was put on, so if the NPC murderer did it in a surprise round, you're out of luck.
5.) I would rule that Dispel Magic could suppress the necklace for 1d4 rounds, as it says, but remember that the DC is 11 + the item's CL (which is 18), resulting in a total DC of 29. At level 9, you'd need a natural 20 to succeed. If you did succeed, I'd rule that no further damage was dealt during those 1d4 rounds, but you couldn't remove the necklace.
6.) Break Enchantment says that in the case of permanent magic items, it does not remove the curse but does free the victim of the effects. This is up for debate but I could see it keeping the necklace from tightening or dealing any damage to the person currently wearing it. Break Enchantment would not allow its removal, so the PC would have to walk around wearing it until they found another method to use in conjunction with it.
7.) Antimagic Field would suppress the necklace for its duration.
8.) Meld into Stone would suppress the necklace for its duration, as would Flesh to Stone or Statue.
9.) Tree Shape would render you immune to the necklace for its duration. Someone could even "prune" you to remove the necklace, and then repair the damage via Regenerate, because nothing about Tree Shape says you're expelled if you take damage, as Meld into Stone does.
10.) Beast Shape, Plant Shape or Baleful Polymorph would work if you turned into something that had no neck, as would the regular Polymorph with the same caveat. Elemental Body would also work, subject to GM discretion.
11.) Stoneskin would protect you from damage for as long as it lasted, with its 10 points per level.
12.) Transmute Metal to Wood followed by an easier sundering would work, as far as I can tell, so long as you overcome the SR 38 of the necklace, which is very unlikely.
13.) Disintegrate should work. The necklace gets +11 on its saving throw, and has the hit points and hardness discussed in #2, above.
14.) It's overkill, but you could use Trap the Soul, which doesn't say anything about taking objects along with the body.
15.) Just heal the damage faster than it deals it. 6 damage per round? Not that tough to get. The necklace doesn't actually say that it has any other effect than straight damage, so you only have to make fortitude saves for holding your breath if the GM says you do.
16.) The NPC didn't actually put the necklace on you because that was just an illusion/simulacrum/summon or because you sneaked up on THEM and/or were watching your back.
I would not allow:
A.) I would not allow Remove Curse to work against the necklace due to its wording. It doesn't say that it can remove curses from magical objects, which the necklace qualifies as. Yes, the Pathfinder rules make distinctions between magical and non-magical objects, and I think it applies here. For the record, I'd say all of the Specific Cursed Items are immune to Remove Curse unless otherwise specified, as in the case of Boots of Dancing or Bracers of Defenselessness.
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I have an older published source book that has an NPC villain who uses a necklace of strangulation to sneak up behind characters and slips it over their heads. With more recent descriptions of the item this mode of attack can apparently only be used once a month, assuming that the NPC can even retrieve the necklace a month after its use. But, other than this limitation, this seams to be an awfully powerful, and perhaps, unfair mode of attack and yet, assuming the NPC is able to attack with surprise, a fairly easy method of attack. Any thoughts on how to deal with this? Note, I'm also concerned about PCs using this method later on against my NPCs.
It comes down to how do you force another character to equip an item?
There are really only a few ways. Beguiling Gift spell as mentioned earlier, or you can use the "tie-up" action. The tie-up action is the 3rd step in the grapple chain of actions (grapple> pin> tie up). You can also skip directly to tie-up if the character is helpless.
Allow a touch attack to put the necklace on someone else is WAY OUT OF LINE. Using a garrot on someone requires an attack against full AC, and is an easier action to accomplish because you only have to put the wire around part of their neck.
Placing the necklace on someone would follow the rules for the tie-up action. It is the most analogous existing mechanic.
I agree that putting the necklace on someone is a grapple attack like trying to use a Garrot.
If a magic item is already equipped on that slot, a cursed item cannot be forceably equipped. You can teleport or shrink out at any time. I would still allow the necklace to damage till they escape.
A coffin of gentile repose could make the necklace unremoveable for their eternal rest. An undead or even the stitched might still have the necklace on their neck.
I allow make whole to restore a rotted body to a state that raise dead can be used on, but that is a judgement call.