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Well since there is no real "agrro" system in pathfinder like in some rpg's with traditional tanks, the best way to fill the roll is to pick up a class with a lot of HP (barbarian) or with great inate survivabilaty (the warpreist). You will want to pick up a two handed weapon and the feat power attack as to hurt things badly and establish yourself as a threat.
Suggested build for 1st lvl (if you end up having a cleric)
Human Barbarian (invulnerable rager archetype)
Str:18 (racial bonus here)
Dex:12
Con:15
Int:8
Wis:12
Cha:7
Feats: power attack, raging vitality
Power attack and 18 str (22 while raging) lets enemy's know that you are one DANGEROUS mother therefore they are more likely to foucus on you. Raging vitality makes you less likely to die due to falling unconscious during a rage. Hope this works for you! Also have fun and welcome to pathfinder!
Consider the minor charm or glory blessing. With quick blessing you can full attack and finish with a quickened improved sanctuary effect. Your opponents shouldn't even know you have the effect as it is supernatural and not spell-like ability.
Note that a summoner-type build is also a good tank. Any hit that a summon takes is a hit that doesn't need to be healed.
The main thing to take away is that there isn't really a way to tank in this game. There are a few feats and spells that can do it on a very limited basis (forcing someone to target you instead of an ally) but they're not very effective and don't last long enough in combat.
The best thing to do is to be mobile, lethal, and have lots of hp. A barbarian accomplishes this very well.
A human barbarian with the superstitious and beast totem tree rage powers lets you do this pretty well. Barbarians naturally have lots of hp, the feat Raging Vitality helps further. The strength bonus from rage helps you to do lots of damage with a two-handed weapon and power attack. Superstitious makes you have very strong saves. Beast Totem allows you to charge and make a full attack via pounce.
You become such a threat enemies have to deal with you or die. Leaving no room to target allies.
Thank you so much for replying. That looks like quite the fun build. I actually forgot to mention that I am starting at level 3 haha, but if I do end up using your build I will use the level 1 version and adjust my stats and stuff from there.
If your starting from lvl 3 then all you need to do is pick up a +1 greatsword, the lesser beast totem rage power, and weapon foucuse (great sword). This means you are never unarmed and you are more likely to land a blow that will splatter pasty bits all over the wall.
Note that an eidolon is only a so-so tank. They are fairly squishy, but excel in dealing damage. The summon monster spells are where the real "tanking" is at. You can summon multiples to cover the field and you never have to worry about healing them back up when the fight is over.
Note that an eidolon is only a so-so tank. They are fairly squishy, but excel in dealing damage. The summon monster spells are where the real "tanking" is at. You can summon multiples to cover the field and you never have to worry about healing them back up when the fight is over.
If he is to go down the summon monster 1-5 rout may I suggest the master summoner archetype? It would make his summons even more deadly at the cost of a greatly diminished eidolon.
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What I meant earlier was that I didn't want there to be two people in the party who rely mostly on summons BUT a regular Summoner does sound VERY interesting...
I would NOT reccomend it. Frankly - I'd ask the current Summoner (Succubus I suppose) to change characters. You're already in a 6 player group - and Summoners inherently slow down combats because of all of the different things they're controlling - moreso when run by new players. They should generally only be used by expierienced players in smaller groups.
Depends on if it's the type of summoner who only uses their eidolon.
Dwarven Druid with Heavy Armor Proficiency and Toughness feats, with Natural Spell on the docket at 5th or 7th. This build will really only go "live" once you hit the level that allows wildshaping into a small earth elemental and can afford beastskin armor, but these guys can do *everything*. Druids don't self-buff as well as clerics/warpriests/paladins, in my opinion, but they are the best at being a multi-variable threat -- just make sure your animal companion can do good scouting. A cleric or wizard in his sanctum sanctorum just plain wins, but druids tip the scales for a party with just a little information and good spell preparation.
Just a few months ago, a buddy of mine asked me to build a druid for his wife so we could keep showing her the game. She didn't dig the earth elemental bit, but decided that wildshaping into a large tiger for hours per day was cool. At level 7, a pouncing claw/claw/bite + grab tiger that could call lightning and had an AC of around 27 was *amazing fun*.
You've got a ways to go before you're equivalent level, but a heavy armor druid can easily make himself a threat from any position in a combat zone and expect to survive. And if a big tiger doesn't pull aggro off squishier party members, then you should have played a paladin anyway.
And on that note -- you *can* play a paladin, and maybe should. If the roleplaying element of alignment seems to be a serious issue, I strongly recommend an examination of the Michael Carpenter character from Jim Butcher's Dresden Files novels. A paladin does not have to play fun police, but he *does* have to set an example, at minimum. And a well-prepared and informed DM should be able to bring the two "opposing" elements of the player group together at the right times during a game session (a lot of that will depend on just how experienced a DM he or she is -- got to be confident you can pull it off, and prepared to wing it to get it done).
Paladins are an amazing class in Pathfinder. I love having a lot of feats for combat abilities, and would even play a non-archetype fighter all the way to 20th in this system, but paladins are just better. Period. Sword and light shield with the quick-draw ability, Quick Draw feat, and Power Attack -- you're always the front line, don't have to worry about clerics or oracles being within range to heal the tank, and can dish out ridiculous damage once smite is active. And you really only need two good stats to do it.
Too bad you kinda can't go ranged . . . . Ranged paladins with bane arrows are stupiddumbawesomegood.
So, there's my two cents in the collection plate.
Druid/Monk would be a pretty strong tank like character. Focusing on trip attacks (during attacks of opportunity) and then flurry of fangs during your turn (I'd go wolf). Also the animal companion sets itself up as a great secondary tank.
Just druid would work pretty well too.
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Cloudspawn,
The characters I build that I call tanks are very complicated, and I'm not sure are the thing for a new player, but I can share some ideas.
I tend to build my characters based not on class, but on putting together cool and powerful effects and combinations of effects. I tend to multiclass a lot, which has a side effect something that a tanking character would want: high saving throws.
So, how to get high saving throws? Paladins, Magi, Rangers, and Clerics have 2 "Good" saving throws each. Monks have good progressions on all 3: Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. Paladins get to add their CH mods to their saves. Both Monks and Paladins get special benefits that make them sort of immune to some things. 3 races that give saving throw bonuses include Half Orc via the Alternative Racial Trait Sacres Tattoos, Halflings via Halfling Luck, and Dwarves get a bonus on all kinds of magic and poison. Dwarves have an option of getting Spell Resistance. For my builds, it just makes sense to go for the saving throws and not bother with SR, but you should crunch the numbers for your own build.
Wear armor, the heaviest armor that it makes sense for you to wear. I often end up with characters that have the Evasion class ability--no damage on a successful Reflex Save--and that limits me to light armor. Those characters of mine eventually trade up to Mithril Medium Armor. Making it out of mithril makes medium armor light. Use a shield.
What are some good options?
Paladin Archer. Wear heavy armor. Take a feat that lets you shoot your arrows while in melee. Paladins' Smite Evil ability works very well with arrows. If your enemies can outrun you trying to do an endrun around you to get your wizard, they won't be able to outrun your arrows.
Phalanx Soldier Fighter Archetype. You will be able to wield a Pole Arm in 1 hand and use a shield. Take the Quick Draw Feat so you can switch between Lucerne Hammer, Horsechopper or just throwing weapons. Take Shield Slam for your heavy, spiked...
Don't forget that wearing armor that your not profeciant in garners a penalty to attacks. Even at just a -2 this can be a big deal, especially with non full bab classes such as monk. However even without admire a monk can fare well as a tank.
Dump or ignore all but dex, con and Wis buy a guided amulet of mighty fists and boom good saves, hp, and AC without ever multi classing or takeing a archatype.
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I just built a Oread cleric and gave him tower shield proficiency at 1st... Took the natural armor alt race trait and have the defense sub domain.... Starting AC 21 decent saves, once a day my and those near me AC by 2 and can drop tower shield and get AC back once a day with shield domain spell. Plus will rack that first level cleric spell that makes an attack go against you instead of adjacent allies.
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Sorry that last post was negative. To say it better:
Consider making a fun character to roleplay then give him/her stats to best fit the party.
I'd consider starting with powerful characters from books and movies, who don't act like they are the biggest and baddest, but really are.
top 5:
1) Fezik from princess bride
2) Grawp from Harry Potter
3) Big Friendly Giant from the book BFG
4) Sloth from Goonies
5) Goku from dragon ball (less so from dragon ball z)
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If by tank you mean to be the one up front taking focus away from other people?
You will want saves as high as possible with an armor class that is high enough to make hitting you harder but not high enough to where after two swings, they move on to other characters.
With this, I would recommend the paladin. You get heals as a swift action in lay on hands along with charisma mod as a bonus to saves at 2nd level. At third, you are immune to disease and fear and gives bonuses to allies on saves vs fear. Look at feats like the cleave tree, down to greater finishing cleave which will allow you to try to attack multiple enemies who swarm you.
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So, what is a tank? A character that is mobile, lethal, and has lots of hp, sounds like a tank to me. It sounds like somewhere in between my youth and dotage the term "tank" has come to mean something very specific.The main thing to take away is that there isn't really a way to tank in this game. There are a few feats and spells that can do it on a very limited basis (forcing someone to target you instead of an ally) but they're not very effective and don't last long enough in combat.
The best thing to do is to be mobile, lethal, and have lots of hp. A barbarian accomplishes this very well.
A human barbarian with the superstitious and beast totem tree rage powers lets you do this pretty well. Barbarians naturally have lots of hp, the feat Raging Vitality helps further. The strength bonus from rage helps you to do lots of damage with a two-handed weapon and power attack. Superstitious makes you have very strong saves. Beast Totem allows you to charge and make a full attack via pounce.
You become such a threat enemies have to deal with you or die. Leaving no room to target allies.
No, that is not what people generally mean when they say tank.
People generally think of tanking as its MMO context, most specifically WoW. Generally meaning lots of HP, not much damage, and some method of generating "agro" which forces enemies to target them over allies. Mobility and lethality are usually not qualities of tanks in MMOs.
In Pathfinder, being a "tank" requires high survivability and the ability to be threatening enough to make enemies focus on you over other high value targets. Dealing damage is one way to do this, but there are others. Reach/trip builds are capable of doing this to an extent by controlling battlefield movement. There is no "agro" system in place that forces enemies to attack you over other higher value targets, outside a few feats and spell which really don't work well. So you need to be "in your face" and threatening enough that the enemy must deal with you before they can deal with someone else.
I don't really do melee builds that much, but I'll give my two cents:
I'd say a rogue unchained dip has some really good potential for a "tank" (the "can't hit me" *hammer slide away* ty[e, not the "just a flesh wound" type). With three levels you get +1 trapfinding, 2d6 sneak attack, a rogue talent, and the actual target - evasion and finesse training. This let's you give up on strength completely and just focus on that sweet dex ac bonus. With a nice GM who is willing to classify natural weapons as a single type (sketchy but legitimate for a home game) you can go rogue 3\monk 1\druid with shaping focus for great ac synergy, pretty powerful melee wildshaping and OK casting.
The Unchained VMC also has some gems, like getting lay on hands from the paladin. Won't make you the team's healer, but 3d6 self healing as a swift action 5 times a day at level 10 is great.
Half-Orc bloodrager [steelblood] 3
Str 18(10, +2) Dex 12(2) Con 14(5) Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 13(3)
Take a look at arcane bloodline...use power attack with two-handed weapon and look at what you can activate at 4th and then 8th.
And you have spells...fun times.
Just want to reiterate my earlier comments regarding the paladin -- I got to play my 7th-level longsword paladin of Iomedae sunday night, for the first time in months. The base stats and all are certainly over the top (the DM said build 'em at 4d6x6rr1s 'cause his dungeon "is the thing that kills you."), but it's simply amazing.
Fey Foundling makes any allied channels or your own LoH almost too good; being able *and* willing to chew tons of damage because you can heal yourself as a swift action as early as level 2 makes for great frontlining. Charisma as your primary, Strength secondary, Constitution tertiary, and you're good to go -- pick up a quick-draw shield and the Quick Draw feat for that little extra AC, and two-handed Power Attack on your turn . . . . You'll pass so many of your saves and soak so much damage the squishies would otherwise take, you can't help but do your "job".
Never thought I'd ever hear myself say this: I love paladins.
I used to think LG would be a problem, too, but I must again cite Jim Butcher's excellent writing of the Michael Carpenter character. LG isn't fun police -- it's more about a passage from the book of James in the New Testament: "keep oneself unspotted from the world". Oppose evil and lead by example.
And, of course, paladin or not, trounce on the bad guys, 'cause that's what heroes do.
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The problem with the paladin LG thing is that different DMs have different ideas about how restricted that makes you. With some DMs you can't cross the street without falling. So basically, before playing a paladin, ask your DM what his thoughts on paladins are.
