Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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What I would love to hear is why, in game world, would the Decimverate ever consider keeping someone in their private and voluntary organization to watch over them. Are you able to advise a reason why they would want someone looking over their shoulder and questioning what they want done?
His other cover personas are 2 of the Decimverate. (and they don't get along)
4 of the Dopplegangers that have replaced Decimverate members are working for him. (the other 6 haven't noticed)
The other one is two halflings in an overcoat.
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
Because they believe in it and are good people?
Or because they want to be seen as such by others?What would definately have it´s advantages with many other organisations, especially if you want to stay on the legal side.
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
Maybe a watchdog that was in my pocket that no one knew was in my pocket...
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
Because they believe in it and are good people?
Or because they want to be seen as such by others?
What would definately have it´s advantages with many other organisations, especially if you want to stay on the legal side.
If you've played EoT, you should know better.
Also, why worry what others think about you when you have 20,000 magic items and artifacts in your basement? ;-)
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?
Q1: I don't know. I might if I felt it was better to keep them in sight where I have at least a basic idea of what they're up to.
Q2: Many reasons ...
1) If the members are dishonest, untrustworthy, and/or have no sense of basic morality and fairness, the members are out for themselves and the Society will get only token returns on the missions they send the members on. Also, if the members are dishonest, etc. the people that the Society works with will not trust them, will not work with them and will not provide them with the information they need. Without a basic level of morality and sense of fairness, the Society just becomes a bunch of thugs that goes around murdering and pillaging.
2) Isn't a lack of basic morality and a sense of fairness the definition of Chaotic Evil?
3) Is Mike just trolling or is this an honest question?
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Q1: I don't know. I might if I felt it was better to keep them in sight where I have at least a basic idea of what they're up to.
Q2: Many reasons ...
1) If the members are dishonest, untrustworthy, and/or have no sense of basic morality and fairness, the members are out for themselves and the Society will get only token returns on the missions they send the members on. Also, if the members are dishonest, etc. the people that the Society works with will not trust them, will not work with them and will not provide them with the information they need. Without a basic level of morality and sense of fairness, the Society just becomes a bunch of thugs that goes around murdering and pillaging.2) Isn't a lack of basic morality and a sense of fairness the definition of Chaotic Evil?
3) Is Mike just trolling or is this an honest question?
No, I think Mike's getting prickly over his lore-baby being questioned, and attempting to hide it by trolling.
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
Because they believe in it and are good people?
Or because they want to be seen as such by others?
What would definately have it´s advantages with many other organisations, especially if you want to stay on the legal side.If you've played EoT, you should know better.
Also, why worry what others think about you when you have 20,000 magic items and artifacts in your basement? ;-)
Well, didn´t have the chance to play that yet.
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
Down with the Decimvirate. This is why I play Silver Crusade. My adventurers got into the business to be heroes and good guys, not to be loyal servants of an already-too-powerful-and-unaccountable private corporation whose only goal seems to be amassing more power for itself ...
In other words, my characters are Pathfinders because that's the organized play campaign we have, and the Decimvirate can go jump off a cliff. And given the attachment a lot of folks seem to feel for Shadow, I wonder if my negative perception of the Society as written does rise to the level of writing and plotting problem. Unless evil corporation really is what you're going for. (Which would itself be a problem, but at least it wouldn't be accidental in that case.)
If you've played EoT, you should know better.
... Maybe it is what you're going for then. Alas. :-/
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Q1: I don't know. I might if I felt it was better to keep them in sight where I have at least a basic idea of what they're up to.
Q2: Many reasons ...
1) If the members are dishonest, untrustworthy, and/or have no sense of basic morality and fairness, the members are out for themselves and the Society will get only token returns on the missions they send the members on. Also, if the members are dishonest, etc. the people that the Society works with will not trust them, will not work with them and will not provide them with the information they need. Without a basic level of morality and sense of fairness, the Society just becomes a bunch of thugs that goes around murdering and pillaging.2) Isn't a lack of basic morality and a sense of fairness the definition of Chaotic Evil?
3) Is Mike just trolling or is this an honest question?
Have you played EoT?
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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No, I think Mike's getting prickly over his lore-baby being questioned, and attempting to hide it by trolling.Next question...if YOU were the Decimverate, would you voluntarily keep a watch dog and his cronies around? Why would a private organization with adventurers who volunteer to be part of it, care about basic morality and a sense of fairness?Q1: I don't know. I might if I felt it was better to keep them in sight where I have at least a basic idea of what they're up to.
Q2: Many reasons ...
1) If the members are dishonest, untrustworthy, and/or have no sense of basic morality and fairness, the members are out for themselves and the Society will get only token returns on the missions they send the members on. Also, if the members are dishonest, etc. the people that the Society works with will not trust them, will not work with them and will not provide them with the information they need. Without a basic level of morality and sense of fairness, the Society just becomes a bunch of thugs that goes around murdering and pillaging.2) Isn't a lack of basic morality and a sense of fairness the definition of Chaotic Evil?
3) Is Mike just trolling or is this an honest question?
Not getting prickly here. I'm not even bothered to tell you the truth. I got to celebrate my daughter turning 8 at a Frozen birthday party today. BTW, It isn't my "lore baby." It was already in place when I took over the job. If we hit the reset button today, you would find I would do things a bit differently. As a matter of fact, I don't have any "lore baby" specifically so I can look at the campaign from a completely neutral perspective without getting possessive or protective over any part of it. (Its also one reason I haven't written a scenario.) I had an oracle who was a Shadow Lodge member (my -4 character) and a samurai that was Lantern Lodge (my -6 character). As much as I hated for both of those characters to lose the factions that fit their characters perfectly, it was best for the campaign that we try not to have factions based off of a specific season. It makes it very difficult to give those factions important meaning in future seasons, especially when we move away from a specific area of Golarion.
Also, I'm just asking questions and making observations. Stop reading tone in my post. There is none there and everything I've typed is stated matter of factly if anything. I would love to have more chats like this but people always think I have some tone or am trolling or whatever when all I'm really trying to do is converse with the playerbase and mostly theorycarft. /sigh
P.S. You will find I get prickly, however, when my Atlanta Falcons sign a washed-up OL man from Washington.
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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Dang it, Mike! You edited your post just as I was about to reply to it.
I want more factories in PFS!
Sorry. I didn't want to be perceived as getting prickly or having some kind of tone in my voice or anything else when just simply want to have an interesting conversation.
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Sorry. I didn't want to be perceived as getting prickly or having some kind of tone in my voice or anything else when just simply want to have an interesting conversation.Dang it, Mike! You edited your post just as I was about to reply to it.
I want more factories in PFS!
Speaking of prickly, where are all of the cacti in PFS? I want me some cacti!
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Speaking of prickly, where are all of the cacti in PFS? I want me some cacti!Sorry. I didn't want to be perceived as getting prickly or having some kind of tone in my voice or anything else when just simply want to have an interesting conversation.Dang it, Mike! You edited your post just as I was about to reply to it.
I want more factories in PFS!
All your cacti are belong to us.
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Sorry. I didn't want to be perceived as getting prickly or having some kind of tone in my voice or anything else when just simply want to have an interesting conversation.Dang it, Mike! You edited your post just as I was about to reply to it.
I want more factories in PFS!
Yeah definitely want to see a scenario that takes in a laundry possibly staffed by orphans. Those pathfinders need taking to cleaners somehow
Enjoy the party Mike
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Edited my post even more to give more insight and perspective from my line of thinking.Dang it, Mike! You edited your post just as I was about to reply to it.
I want more factories in PFS!
I think most of us appreciate when you discuss with us here on the boards. Maybe we need to tell you that more. That's on us.
Re: Shadow Lodge and Lantern Lodge. I really miss both of those factions. I only had one Shadow Lodge character (he's now in the Silver Crusade, demanding they turn over the silver they promised him for joining their crusade), and I didn't have any Lantern Lodge characters. Still, I think they both served good roles for factions. There are some particular characters that are a natural fit for the Pathfinder Society, but are not a good fit for any of the current factions.
Along this same line of thought, I still think we need a hippy/granola faction for all the nature-lover characters. A wildlife biologist Pathfinder agent seems a perfect fit for a group of gentlemen adventurer-explorers, but none of the factions really fit very well for him.
Anyway, enough rambling. A very Happy Birthday to your daughter. Just remember to "Let it go." ;)
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Global Organized Play Coordinator
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No, I don't need to be told it is appreciated more. I understand it is. I need not be accused of being trolling or prickly when I'm just having a conversation. That is appreciated in and of itself.
If I add a nature-lover faction, I can't imagine what I'm going to be called next, considered prickly has already been used ;-)
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I need not be accused of being trolling or prickly when I'm just having a conversation. That is appreciated in and of itself.
If I add a nature-lover faction, I can't imagine what I'm going to be called next, considered prickly has already been used ;-)
My trolling remark was spoken hastily. I know better. I apologize.
I'd love a nature-loving faction. Just not sure what the goals would be.
P.S. I did play EoT, but I forgot what the Decimverate can do.
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It was already in place when I took over the job
There were two seemingly different things in place. The season 1-2 Torch the schemer that the society turned to for information, and grandmaster torch the pathfinder union rep who, despite holding meetings in his bathtub sometimes seemed to be the sanest man in the society and was the only one who cared if you came back alive. Which one is the "real" or true version of the character probably depends on which one you met first. For me and many others its the later version in first steps II
While there was nothing wrong with schemer torch (after all, the society can hardly complain that someone else looks to their own interests first when the society does the same thing) The move back from Union rep torch to Schemer torch came with him kicking the dog HARD, and worse, for no apparent reason. While there may not be a reason for the Decimverate to keep him around in season 4, many pathfinders have a hard time finding a reason to keep him ALIVE. Plot armor against npcs is kind of accepted in any form of fiction, plot armor against PCs start to grate.
What I want to see in PFS is grandmaster torches head on a pike. Schemer torch and Union rep torch were both fine but the mood whiplash from one to the other was too jarring for him to just go back to the status quo and pretend seasons 3 and 4 didn't happen.
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I'd love a nature-loving faction. Just not sure what the goals would be.
Model it after Germany's Green Party. If I'm recalling my Political Science knowledge correctly, it's the only Green Party in the world to have ever been in control of government (albeit as part of a coalition). It took power after decades of economic growth had left the country polluted and dirty. Today Germany is a leading country in Green energy and its economy is booming.
The "Green" faction could be founded by an Archdruid or a council of high-ranking Druids from all over Golarion. Maybe even Clerics, Inquisitors, Rangers, and Wizards. Their motive could be to ride the coattails of the Pathfinder Society's intercontinental travels to observe and report on the natural state of things across Golarion.
Protect endangered species, clean up environments, make sure poaching and habitat destruction are kept in check, and root out those that actively seek to blight or destroy nature.
Now that the faction cards are a thing, I think it'd be easier than ever to implement.
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Now that the faction cards are a thing, I think it'd be easier than ever to implement.
Actually, that's very true. I don't see why you couldn't have faction cards for any faction, large or small. If they were in place, you wouldn't have needed to shut down the Shadow Lodge. However, the goals on a Shadow Lodge card would be much harder to obtain and the rewards would be slower in coming.
You could easily create a nature oriented faction with faction cards. "Prevented a hostile animal companion or wild animal from being killed." Or better yet, "Turned the attitude of a hostile animal companion or animal to friendly."
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Some evil conspiracies are fine, just so long as I don't feel like I'm a helpless stooge of people whose agenda I wholly hate but wholly can't do anything about - that's one of the many reasons I finally quit World of Warcraft in 2009, and felt a wave of sheer bliss when I did so. For at least a few weeks my activity on there had been reduced to nothing more than managing my massive load of stuff I was trying to push on the Auction House, then one day I just...chose to stop caring and let go. It was such a refreshing moment.
Oh! *hops on Santa Brock's lap* Real requests: I want to see the Faction traits that disappeared when the various old factions (including Lantern Lodge and Shadow Lodge) went away to come back in some capacity (I don't care too much how or in what precise incarnation, just so long as they're available to us again). On a similar note, I'd like some of the Faction traits to be balanced/improved, especially those of Grand Lodge and Liberty's Edge, which are, on the whole, both substantially and needlessly sub-par.
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Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
This isn't 2015 Earth where the global corporate community has rules and checks and balances.
This is, for all intents and purposes, a renaissance feudal world, where corporate entities nearly have carte blanche to do whatever they wish, whenever they wish, in whatever form they wish to do it. Why would 12 uber powerful individuals care about oversight of any kind? They have an entire organization making things happen at their whim.
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Still, I think they both served good roles for factions. There are some particular characters that are a natural fit for the Pathfinder Society, but are not a good fit for any of the current factions.
Grand Lodge is the faction if you don't fit a faction. Grand Lodge isn't really a faction, but rather the faction of pathfinders that don't belong to a faction that isn't just serving the Society needs.
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No, Grand Lodge is supposed to be the faction of Pathfinders that care about the Society above outside interests. Their tagline is even "Loyalty to the Decemvirate above all else."
Its still the non-faction faction. You aren't really in a faction if you choose not to join another faction and just be a Pathfinder.
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There's a difference between "I don't care" and "I care about the Society above all".No, Grand Lodge is supposed to be the faction of Pathfinders that care about the Society above outside interests. Their tagline is even "Loyalty to the Decemvirate above all else."Its still the non-faction faction. You aren't really in a faction if you choose not to join another faction and just be a Pathfinder.
But No True Scotsman--err...Pathfinder faction would care most of all about being loyal to the Decemvirate!
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There's a difference between "I don't care" and "I care about the Society above all".No, Grand Lodge is supposed to be the faction of Pathfinders that care about the Society above outside interests. Their tagline is even "Loyalty to the Decemvirate above all else."Its still the non-faction faction. You aren't really in a faction if you choose not to join another faction and just be a Pathfinder.
This is true. But by default, "I don't care" gets put into "I care about the Society above all."
Because this is a campaign about the Pathfinder Society and its members, where the player characters are field agents.
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Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
This isn't 2015 Earth where the global corporate community has rules and checks and balances.
This is, for all intents and purposes, a renaissance feudal world, where corporate entities nearly have carte blanche to do whatever they wish, whenever they wish, in whatever form they wish to do it. Why would 12 uber powerful individuals care about oversight of any kind? They have an entire organization making things happen at their whim.
Who are the other two? There's the Decemvirate, that makes ten, but I'm having trouble coming up with the other two. :)
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Who are the other two? There's the Decemvirate, that makes ten, but I'm having trouble coming up with the other two. :)Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
This isn't 2015 Earth where the global corporate community has rules and checks and balances.
This is, for all intents and purposes, a renaissance feudal world, where corporate entities nearly have carte blanche to do whatever they wish, whenever they wish, in whatever form they wish to do it. Why would 12 uber powerful individuals care about oversight of any kind? They have an entire organization making things happen at their whim.
It's those two halflings in the long coat pretending to be one of the decemvirate hoping to get one of the real ten to reveal themselves to expose them
Pay attention undead Mitch;-p
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Who are the other two? There's the Decemvirate, that makes ten, but I'm having trouble coming up with the other two. :)Some token degree of basic morality and sense of fairness? Evidently, they've screwed up in the past, and nobody should be completely beyond accountability.Meh...Anything else?
This isn't 2015 Earth where the global corporate community has rules and checks and balances.
This is, for all intents and purposes, a renaissance feudal world, where corporate entities nearly have carte blanche to do whatever they wish, whenever they wish, in whatever form they wish to do it. Why would 12 uber powerful individuals care about oversight of any kind? They have an entire organization making things happen at their whim.
It's those two halflings in the long coat pretending to be one of the decemvirate hoping to get one of the real ten to reveal themselves to expose them
Pay attention undead Mitch;-p
Bah, how could I have missed that?