We're starting a new game, and I (as usual) am having trouble deciding what to play, and I'm hoping discussing the options might clear it out for me.
First: a priest of Aroden. Aroden being dead for several generations, this would be a lore warden fighter with lots of knowledges and Orator, a sort of monk-like figure, studying philosophy and swordsmanship in a lonely crumbling temple to Aroden until circumstances call him to adventure. I think it might be interesting to consider whether, in manifestly theistic Golarion, it might be atheism that requires the most faith. This is the most engaging option for me in terms of concept.
Next: a young noble returning home from the border wars with Qadira. A Dragon cavalier with the Helpful trait, working towards Swift Aid, and so on, going for a role like a D&D 4E warlord: a party facilitator. Again a somewhat scholarly guy, with the Improvisation feat and a decent, and hopefully, growing travelling library. This is probably the most mechanically engaging option, and most fun for the group (everyone likes being given bonuses).
Last: a divine spellcaster, because we're lacking one. The least interesting option, as is obvious from the amount of effort I'm spending to consider it, but possibly the most useful one.
What do you think?
Have you thought about seeing if there's a divine caster that will work to create your priest of Aroden? Mechanically, even clerics don't HAVE to worship a deity:
While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.)
I know there are other divine classes that have no requirement for deities whatsoever, like the oracle.
Maybe an Enlightened Philosopher oracle would work? It seems to be the best of both worlds - it could work to let you create the story you want while still giving the group the divine spellcaster you currently lack. An inquisitor of some flavor could work, too, I think.
Shaman and oracle are both good for playing a holy man without a deity. Or with a deity but without the baggage of clergy. Sounds like you are wanting the lore mystery or spirit.
Don't play a divine character just because you're the last person to pick a class, you'll be fine without one so long as someone can use a wand. I'd probably go with the the Lore Warden, maybe an archery build? How high in level do you expect this campaign to run? What's the party composed of?
3.5 had the archivist, a base class that had clerical spells that it could cast without a direct link to a deity, learning them as sort of rituals. This could work well for an Arodenite, if your DM allows it. A certain type of witch could also work, as would of course an oracle.
|
Reflavored Razmiran Priest Sorcerer, with the Imperious Bloodline.
Basically, an Arcane Priest of Aroden.
Also, that's not how Atheism works in Golarion:
Atheism is the rejection of the gods. Rather than outright disbelieving in gods (whose existence is a matter of hard fact), atheists in Golarion instead deny that the gods are truly divine and thus not deserving of worship or blind faith. Thus, atheists may be classed as dystheists or misotheists.
The dominance of spellcasters in the responses just makes me want to go with either the lore warden or the cavalier, out of purse spite for the dominance of spellcasters in the game. :)
Also, that's not how Atheism works in Golarion:
Atheism is the rejection of the gods. Rather than outright disbelieving in gods (whose existence is a matter of hard fact), atheists in Golarion instead deny that the gods are truly divine and thus not deserving of worship or blind faith. Thus, atheists may be classed as dystheists or misotheists.
I don't think that's incompatible with what I wrote? A priest of Aroden presumably doesn't think (the other) gods are deserving of worship, which is why he's a priest of Aroden.
If I understand correctly, in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Clerics and Inquisitors(?) are tied to a particular deity, but Paladins, Hunters, Druids, and Oracles are not necessarily tied to a particular faith.
So you could be any of those (not 100% sure about Inquisitor). Paladin would let you choose martial with small spellcasting or even no spellcasting (Warrior of the Holy Light archetype).
Hm, Golarion deities at least acknowledge each other, so this can be assumed to extend to their cults. Many instances in the setting describe cults of different deities interacting on non-hostile terms - which would be pretty hard if all of them believed the gods of the others are not worthy of veneration. In many ways, religion in most parts of Golarion seems to follow a local pantheon where different gods are venerated and held as patrons of different groups or philosophies, and being a representative and speaker of one does not imply rejection of another (in most cases).
In the above case, worship of Aroden may be not so much out of spite towards all other deities or rejection of what all deities stand for (which I would consider akin to atheism) but because the character espouces the Arodenite dogma as life philosophy, a positive rather than a negative reason. I do not think this would make this character an atheist - his/her is simply a faith in a philosophy and concept that is valid even without the miracles and trappings most other religions have access to. It is one thing to not venerate them yourself, it is another to deny their power and worthiness in general. On the other hand, would it really make you a priest, if you actually believe Aroden is dead, or are you simply a religious scholar or philosopher?
|
|
The dominance of spellcasters in the responses just makes me want to go with either the lore warden or the cavalier, out of purse spite for the dominance of spellcasters in the game. :)
I don't think that's incompatible with what I wrote? A priest of Aroden presumably doesn't think (the other) gods are deserving of worship, which is why he's a priest of Aroden.Also, that's not how Atheism works in Golarion:
Atheism is the rejection of the gods. Rather than outright disbelieving in gods (whose existence is a matter of hard fact), atheists in Golarion instead deny that the gods are truly divine and thus not deserving of worship or blind faith. Thus, atheists may be classed as dystheists or misotheists.
Don't hate the spellcaster's purse.
Also, I suppose I didn't mean to disagree with how you addressed Atheism in Golarion, but to clarify.
In the above case, worship of Aroden may be not so much out of spite towards all other deities or rejection of what all deities stand for (which I would consider akin to atheism) but because the character espouces the Arodenite dogma as life philosophy, a positive rather than a negative reason. I do not think this would make this character an atheist - his/her is simply a faith in a philosophy and concept that is valid even without the miracles and trappings most other religions have access to. It is one thing to not venerate them yourself, it is another to deny their power and worthiness in general. On the other hand, would it really make you a priest, if you actually believe Aroden is dead, or are you simply a religious scholar or philosopher?
Well, if I had all those answers, I wouldn't have to play the character, right? :)
Don't hate the spellcaster's purse.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here, I think you might be adapting a phrase I'm unfamiliar with?
Also, I suppose I didn't mean to disagree with how you addressed Atheism in Golarion, but to clarify.
Ah, OK, fair enough.
Well, if I had all those answers, I wouldn't have to play the character, right? :)
It is your character, at the end of the day, so you get to answer that. I am just saying that you do not have to be irked at all other gods to be an Arodenite. Just how much cleric you want in your priest is up to you - anything from a witch or oracle to bard to rogue or fighter is an option.
BTW, do not underestimate the power of a bard when it comes to public speaking and almost-divine evangelism (or, for that matter, teamplay and improvisation - there is even a bard/cavalier PrC). There's a reason quite a few Golarion cults love those crazy spoonies.
I'd think that the Cavalier concept could be combined with the worshipper of a dead god concept to create kind of a noble knight and guardian of the temple fellow.
I'd think that the Cavalier concept could be combined with the worshipper of a dead god concept to create kind of a noble knight and guardian of the temple fellow.
I think that could be cool. Aroden, as the God of Humanity, likely subscribed to the fact that humanity is at its best when humans worked together. This philosophy would likely inform the kind of tactics that the Cavalier character uses.
Have you considered paladin? He can be dedicated to Aroden, provide healing, and be built similar to your cavalier idea too. Inquisitor might work too.
I like the Aoden follower idea. It is storywise great but mechanically boring. I Think a actual monk(with pummeling style pehaps;)) would be more fun and bring more to the party.
Number two Can be very funny but Can also be "number two" depending on how much the team need a facilitator and how far you play since magic Will soon out shine most stuff you bring to the table.
Number 3 could pehaps be combined with number 1 in a shaman. Some one devout in the teaching of Aroden but who also have a connection to the spiritual world. Pehaps kickstarted by a desire to touch the dead god? You Can take the lore spirit just remember that the Arcane Enlightenment hex should be taken as a wandering hex if you do:) Also life and heaven spirits seem like good options. Pehaps some spirits out there know somthing about the demise of Aroden that even the Gods dont know?
I am joking about your "purse spite" comment.Don't hate the spellcaster's purse.I'm not quite sure what you mean here, I think you might be adapting a phrase I'm unfamiliar with?
Ah, so it was a phrase I'm unfamiliar with. :D
Have you considered paladin? He can be dedicated to Aroden, provide healing, and be built similar to your cavalier idea too. Inquisitor might work too.
I loved paladins in 3E, so the Pathfinder paladin kind of feels like cheating. That's why I'm considering the cavalier: it's a lot like the paladin on hard mode.
My last character was an inquisitor, so I don't want to go there again so soon.
Next: a young noble returning home from the border wars with Qadira. A Dragon cavalier with the Helpful trait, working towards Swift Aid, and so on, going for a role like a D&D 4E warlord: a party facilitator. Again a somewhat scholarly guy, with the Improvisation feat and a decent, and hopefully, growing travelling library. This is probably the most mechanically engaging option, and most fun for the group (everyone likes being given bonuses).
I played a total buttjerk version of this in a homebrew setting game and the party STILL loved the bonuses being tossed around. This is a great way to go. It's fun to play and fun to have on your team. Bonus points if you have an ally with Touch of Law on your side; it's hilarious when your barbarian literally CANNOT miss thanks to having Touch of Law and a flat +5 or +8 Aid Another bonus. At level 1 or 2 respectively. Lord, that was amazing for low level PFS play.
Top it off with a Racial Heritage: Halfling feat, then grab the Blundering Defense line of feats. You can now use Aid Another with Bodyguard and so forth while also fighting defensively with whatever you use your standard action for (I vote maneuvers) to provide AC benefits to adjacent allies. (Some tables will let you use Fighting Defensively actions with Aid Another, but it's one of those "ehhhhhh ehhhhh" things. I asked about it on the forums before and opinions were mixed.)
This is a good archetype for what you want.
And there's a paladin archetype that could work well for slightly different reasons.
^If you're going that route, see the Tower Shieldadin thread [link to post where I made a proto-guide summarizing a lot of the stuff, although also scroll down a couple of posts for a link to a post in the Paladin Guide Discussion thread that points out some potential pitfalls).
You could her a sort of Inquisitor of aroden I guess? That is if you wanted the idea of aggressively expand his worship, or do so passive aggressively. That way you can heal and still have the means of being a pretty good swordsmen.
Have you considered paladin? He can be dedicated to Aroden, provide healing, and be built similar to your cavalier idea too. Inquisitor might work too.I loved paladins in 3E, so the Pathfinder paladin kind of feels like cheating. That's why I'm considering the cavalier: it's a lot like the paladin on hard mode.
My last character was an inquisitor, so I don't want to go there again so soon.
I understand. I played a paladin in a campaign that didn't have a lot of BBEG OR people (humanoids, fey, ginats) to use Diplomacy on, mostly N bags o'hit points, so I was mostly just a healer that didn't suck at hitting. I did decent damage, drew hits, and healed. I wasn't a super smite, super face, machine. So it didn't feel overpowered, but still felt useful.
Flavor wise, a half elf may certainly have worshiped Aroden, and could have chosen not to cast/and or changed spells since his death. Starting at 1st level as cleric then going into cavalier might be fun for you, hoarding your first level spells, your only connection to a dead/missing god. Bear in mind he went off the grid 108 years ago.