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You know that guy who always gets the joke last, never seems to use long words, and always takes a bit longer to get s@~@ done.. but otherwise seems normal? That's probably where 7 int is. It's low, but not enough to be considered non-functional in any significant way. But you wouldn't ask him to be the one to hit the books, nor expect him to be very helpful if the whole party does so.
You'd have to drop into the 4-5 range to be considered obviously disabled, IMO.
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well there are other factors to take into account such as a wisdom but anyway...
7 int is under the average intelligence in an educated setting or the norm (orc village), so basically dumber than average. As in learn very slowly, he can still function of course with his wisdom and charisma influencing his personality and perception of the world.
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Actually, that's not a theory--the 3E designers deliberately used "+5 on an ability score = twice as good" as a concept when working on the game.
Here are the given Benchmarks in Pathfinder for Intelligence:
-An INT 10 is Average intelligence.-An INT <3 and you're unable to comprehend language.
I'd wager that an INT 7 PC would probably be low average or have borderline impaired function. INT 5 and the PC would be ruled incompetent to stand trial for their murderhobo crimes.
Personally, of all the ability scores, I think INT is the hardest to roleplay. It's difficult to play someone more or less intelligent than yourself in a game that at its basis consists of intelligence or dice. And in lots of ways it's hard for a GM to hold a person to their INT stat. Has your GM ever said to the INT 7 Paladin, "Your character isn't smart enough to have come up with this battleplan"? Though judge by the conjoined complexity/stupidity of many PC plans, maybe that is roleplaying it well.
The SKR quote does raise some serious(ly fun) issues with Charisma. It's not unusual for a PC to be 25-30 in their casting stat. Which for CHA-based characters could be interpreted as 3-4 times as attractive as an average person. My home rule for this would be to have all people potentially romantically/physically interested in that PC roll a will save to keep from hitting on them, DC 10+mod. Soon the PC will be wearing masks/veils in public.
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Here are the given Benchmarks in Pathfinder for Intelligence:
-An INT 10 is Average intelligence.
-An INT <3 and you're unable to comprehend language.
Was the heart accidental?
I have a character with 7 Int and Cha, 11 Wis. He's somewhat aware that he isn't the smartest person in the room and often the opposite, so he tends to let his fellows do the talking and when it comes time for action, he can do that. He is never involved with making the plans, never uses complex tactics, and is perfectly fine with being looked down on because at the end of the day, if he takes the beating, he can get a new scar and make sure his fellows walk away alive.
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I play PCs with an 8 Int from time to time.
I take it seriously to play it as I see an 8 Int really being, which would be as close to the village idiot without actually being the village idiot.
In a recent scenario with an 8 Int PC, I spent a few rounds trying to disarm/grapple a spiritual weapon in order to deal with it, despite my party's cries that it couldn't be done.
To me, it's not just a dump stat so you have more points in your point buy, you pick a low Int because that's the way you want to play a character.
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I have a character with 7 Int 12 Cha and 12 Wis...and I have no idea how to roleplay him...I have been doing the very rash and quick tempered but still being able to read the situation just barely well enough to know to just sit outside and breathe. I would like more help on this as well so definitely stalking this thread all creepy like
I don't know if the rashness is inline with the above average wisdom. In my life I've known very intelligent people be very rash, and very wise people not be the sharpest tools in the shed.
I remember finding this example from reddit illustrative
Strength is being able to crush a tomato. Dexterity is being able to dodge a tomato. Constitution is being able to eat a bad tomato. Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad. Charisma is being able to sell a tomato based fruit salad.
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I play PCs with an 8 Int from time to time.
I take it seriously to play it as I see an 8 Int really being, which would be as close to the village idiot without actually being the village idiot.
In a recent scenario with an 8 Int PC, I spent a few rounds trying to disarm/grapple a spiritual weapon in order to deal with it, despite my party's cries that it couldn't be done.
To me, it's not just a dump stat so you have more points in your point buy, you pick a low Int because that's the way you want to play a character.
8 and 4 intelligence are not the same thing.
Think about the difference between a 16 and 20 intelligence, or a 10 and 14 intelligence.
8 is just on the low end of average.
Maybe a common fast-food worker, or construction work laborer.
Most will not recognize the difference between a 10 and 8.
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Additionally, I think the people over at D20PFSRD have some pretty nifty tables, which give some descriptions at different levels of the various ability scores.
Most will not recognize the difference between a 10 and 8.
Including, most likely, the person with 8 intelligence. Makes for some potentially fun RP, depending on the rest of your character.
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Magda has INT7 and WIS16. I play her as pretty dumb but quite wise. This can be entertaining when played for laughs, but can be quite frustrating when trying to solve puzzles. She doesn't even try to figure out puzzles. In fact, I've found low INT enough of a Roleplaying hindrance that I won't dump int that way again without a very good concept.
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Magda has INT7 and WIS16. I play her as pretty dumb but quite wise. This can be entertaining when played for laughs, but can be quite frustrating when trying to solve puzzles. She doesn't even try to figure out puzzles. In fact, I've found low INT enough of a Roleplaying hindrance that I won't dump int that way again without a very good concept.
I'm imagining Alexander and his solution to the Gordion Knot problem. With Magda doing things such as Stone Shaping your way through the maze or flying out of it.
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Mental scores of 7 are not really that bad. Even though 10 is average you have to remember that 1/6 of the population has an 8 before any racial modifiers are thrown in. Then if that mental stat is their racial weakness it is a 6 and they still function well enough. Dwarves take a hit to charisma(the stat that GM's like to may up the most rules for in order to punish players), and they are one of the races that is commonly respected in D&D/Pathfinder so. If a 7 was really that bad people would probably hate them rather than just look at them as grumpy.
With regard to intelligence if a 7 was that bad a race with a lower int would likely have already been taken over by another race through sheet trickery alone.
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There's stuff in the game for Int 6-7: Trolls, ogres, yrthaks.
Using the rules, and overlooking things like age adjustments, curses, etc... you can't have a human PC or NPC with a lower Int than 7, so with that score you're essentially making the least intelligent member of any community you're in.
I see any PC/NPC with a 7 Int as one that misuses words, talks really slow, forgets things, etc. You shouldn't be surprised if they put their shirt on wrong.
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There's stuff in the game for Int 6-7: Trolls, ogres, yrthaks.
I was just about to make that point.
With regard to intelligence if a 7 was that bad a race with a lower int would likely have already been taken over by another race through sheet trickery alone.
Well, ogres do seem marginalized. But they also have str 21, I have a feeling that's why they haven't been taken over through sheer trickery alone.
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As far as dwarves and their low charisma, they may be a little uncouth and rough around the edges, but I also imagine them as not very fun and dour worshipping Torag and working hard.
That is until they start quaffing, fighting with dwarven bread, and singing dwarf songs, which due to their low charisma (and thus low perform scores) mostly consist of singing the word "gold" repeatedly.
Unless you also have a low Wisdom, you may not be "dumb" at all, just learning impaired. It probably doesn't require any more roleplaying than what is required for having not many skills and struggling with maze. Just say, "I'm no good at these things," a lot and you're probably there. :)
A int 7 is like hodor from game of thrones with a little more vocabulary.
Forrest Gump...his IQ in the movie was right around 70.
Yep. Forest gump.
6 would be the ugly chap with the golden heart in goonies
8 is i would say ow hollywood shows people from iowa.
Poor memory; 10% less chance of remembering an important fact in battle. This can be compensated for with effort (leveling up and skill ranks). Consider what a level 5 Bard is capable of with 7 Int (learning many musical instruments, a wide variety of knowledge skills, multiple languages, magic, excellent diplomacy...) and you'll see that it's far from a crippling mental disorder.
Whereas someone with Int 10 is reasonably competent at one or two jobs, and may have a hobby, someone with Int 7 is usually competent at just one thing. An Int 7 blacksmith could be a pretty good blacksmith, but don't ask him to help you shingle your house. With Int 7, your profession is probably whatever your parents' profession is, unless they are academics. With Int 5, you are a menial, or your family's wealth is used to keep you away from the public.
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Poor memory; 10% less chance of remembering an important fact in battle. This can be compensated for with effort (leveling up and skill ranks). Consider what a level 5 Bard is capable of with 7 Int (learning many musical instruments, a wide variety of knowledge skills, multiple languages, magic, excellent diplomacy...) and you'll see that it's far from a crippling mental disorder.
And then his manager/accountant steals all his gold? I've definitely seen that on Behind the Music (is that still a show? (wait is VH1 still a channel?)).
There's stuff in the game for Int 6-7: Trolls, ogres, yrthaks.I was just about to make that point.
With regard to intelligence if a 7 was that bad a race with a lower int would likely have already been taken over by another race through sheet trickery alone.Well, ogres do seem marginalized. But they also have str 21, I have a feeling that's why they haven't been taken over through sheer trickery alone.
Ogre's bad attitudes would probably make them the type you want to run off the land rather than try to rule.
Orcs, on the other hand while being strong would likely not fair well in war with their low intelligence and wisdom if a 7 was really debilitating. I also wouldn't see them being able to get rid of the invaders by planning a successful rebellion later on unless some special once in a life time leader was born.
edit: added the word "see"
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I have a character with 7 Int 12 Cha and 12 Wis...and I have no idea how to roleplay him...I have been doing the very rash and quick tempered but still being able to read the situation just barely well enough to know to just sit outside and breathe. I would like more help on this as well so definitely stalking this thread all creepy likeI don't know if the rashness is inline with the above average wisdom. In my life I've known very intelligent people be very rash, and very wise people not be the sharpest tools in the shed.
I'd agree that rashness isn't really a trait I associate with low Int. Not that a low int person can't be rash, but they could just as easily be stubborn and slow to react.
With a slightly above-average wis and cha, I might think that the character has a bad memory for details but a decent sense of the good picture, or possibly that they aren't good at thinking abstractly and tend to use a lot of examples or metaphors. Speaking in parables or fables might be appropriate for this character.
Sam Gamgee might have similar stats. He's a little dense and doesn't really understand the significance of everything happening around him, but has good hobbit sense and though he's not a born leader he's earnest enough to win people over (especially in the movies where you see him emote more directly). He also does tend to put his foot in things, and bluster a bit.
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I also wouldn't them being able to get rid of the invaders by planning a successful rebellion later on unless some special once in a life time leader was born.
Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.
^And it's an innuendo.^
Just a reminder a hero can arise from unlikely circumstances. Also it seems Golarion Orcs are really hard to pacify
I also wouldn't them being able to get rid of the invaders by planning a successful rebellion later on unless some special once in a life time leader was born.Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them.^And it's an innuendo.^
Just a reminder a hero can arise from unlikely circumstances. Also it seems Golarion Orcs are really hard to pacify
What I was saying was that someone had to be born who could make it happen. So my statement is still true.
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The intelligence score has always been really funny to me because a humanoid with a 7 intelligence is about as smart as your pet rock but an animal with a 7 intelligence is a brilliant and elusive hunter with the capacity to outsmart the party on a regular basis.
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The intelligence score has always been really funny to me because a humanoid with a 7 intelligence is about as smart as your pet rock but an animal with a 7 intelligence is a brilliant and elusive hunter with the capacity to outsmart the party on a regular basis.
Well, regular velociraptors have the following stat block:
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 14And has better base saves than an 8th level fighter.
They are wiser and have stronger personality than your average human. INT 2 is also as smart as your average dog (and they can do some pretty neat tricks). Look at what raptors can do with just INT 2.
INT 7 would be twice as intelligent. *shudders*
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I've been out of the game a while. How dumb is a 7 INT?
Not as dumb as a lot of people think.
If human intelligence is distributed as per rolling 3d6 and adding the total, which is how it was in original D & D, then 16.2% of people have an intelligence of 7 or less.
Its low average, but comfortably above having an intellectual disability. We all know people with ints 7 or less.
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I would say that int 7 is probably about what the dumb people have that I meet when I go to the supermarket after work. The kind that stands there blank faced blocking the way and upset if you ask them to let you go by. Or the ones that walk along the corridor with their cart, then they see something interesting, let go of their moving cart and turn to the shelves, ignorant about what their cart will hit.
In other words, sadly, everyday people we have to put up with.
Consider what a level 5 Bard is capable of with 7 Int (learning many musical instruments, a wide variety of knowledge skills, multiple languages, magic, excellent diplomacy...) and you'll see that it's far from a crippling mental disorder.And then his manager/accountant steals all his gold?
That would imply low Sense Motive, which is Wisdom-based.
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I like to think of 7 intelligence as Joey from Friends. Or rather, he is Low Int, Average Wis, and High Cha (so an average sorcerer, paladin, or oracle). He's not a slobbering idiot, but he consistently takes longer to figure things out, frequently gets common knowledge trivia wrong, and he often thinks he is being clever when he is actually doing things normally or even ineffectively.
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2 is the typical animal
3 can now understand a language
4 & 5 are mentally challenged for a human. A real special ed. Perhaps momma dropped themon thier heads.
6-9 is below average but not needing a helmet and special care.
10 is average.
11-14 are your heads of the class.
14-16 are more your honor students in advanced classes.
16+ your pushing genius levels...of course there is even a difference between genius IQs so the higher you go the smarter of a genius you are.
"Consider just how stupid the average person is, and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
~ George Carlin
Except that isn't how averages work. George should have reviewed measures of central tendency. :P
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15.87% of the population is dumber than that. We certainly don't institutionalize...almost 16% of our population based on intelligence alone.
Right...we use skin color for that.
Wrong thread?
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Friend of mine once played a grapple focused Barbarian. Only played him once with us, and he was pretty low int. May have been 6, I'm not sure. Either way, he played the guy like an eager, over strong puppy. Wanted to get into everything, didn't quite talk right, got confused easy....but boy, when that barbarian grappled the boss of the night for several rounds in a row while we killed off his minions, we didn't so much worry about his inability to not see doors as shoulder checkable objects.