Arcane Apotheosis - What are some ways to ascend?


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I'm making this thread to gather ideas/opinions for how a sorcerer could achieve godhood. Since I've not seen an epic level book or anything beyond mythic, I was under the impression that lvl 20 mythic 10 is as high as you can get, but even then you're not really a god... well, heirophant is kinda like a god, but more of an avatar of one. But either way that's a divine caster.

How would you help a lvl 18 sorcerer attain godhood? Is the starstone still an option? Could they devise a ritual or series of rituals that would propel them to greatness? Would they have to have worshippers already?

I would appreciate Ideas and Suggestions or even experiences if you've done it yourself. The caster is Neutral in alignment, for the purposes of what they would be okay doing to attain their goals.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You're looking for a rules based answer on what is essentially a story question. There are no set rules, no level requirements, NADA. And from all accounts, Cayden himself was most likely not mythic or even high level when he passed the Test.

The answer is however the DM/Author wants it to play out.


A tier 9 mythic character that puts all their eggs into the Divine Source basket can grant four different domains, which puts you at the power level of a demigod (such as an archdevil). That's the closest you'll get to a "by RAW" means of achieving godhood. This is best left to the GM to design a narrative for.

Dark Archive

Also, you could defer to 3.5e, which had specific rules for not only stating out deities to fight in epic levels, but how one can -theoretically- become one, though again it is ultimately a DM decision. The 3.5e rules for deities can be found on the D20 SRD, if your interested. Under those rules IF, and only if, deities gain their godhood from being worshiped, then the absolute minimum number of worshipers needed under 3.5e to obtain Godhood was 200, which grants you demigod status. Getting 200 people to declare you a god, mind you, is not an easy feat, but a sorcerer is starting in a good place with their naturally high charisma. Leadership, sadly, can't do this for you on it's own as the followers, while loyal, are not fanatically so, and I highly doupt that if you ordered them "worship me as your god" that all of them would just abandon their current religion, bow down and worship you just because you asked. In fact, you'd likely lose the services of a fair chunk of them that way. Leadership does, however, give you a good base of NPCs that you could attempt to diplomacy into worshiping you, but again, to do this your going to need a sick diplomacy mod, which would make me very tempted to go dual path archmage and scoundrel for your mythic path, and pack on as many diplomacy boosts as you can, even using feats if necessary.

OR if you don't want to try and convince 200 people to worship you the old fashion way, you can be an undead bloodline sorcerer. Why? Some intelligent undead can create spawn(like wights, for instance). If your an undead sorcerer, you can use dominate person on wights and the like. Dominate a few wights, have them create spawn, who create more spawn, until you have 200+ wights under your command. Make the wight commanders/original wights that you have dominated(and should keep dominated at all times) force all their spawn(and in turn their spawn) to worship you, and since they are under their command they can't just say no like normal people. Congrats, you've just become the next Urgathoa. Just don't let any good-aligned clerics, Paladins or Life Oracles find out what your doing or your "wight church" will get turned to dust in short order, and be **** well sure to keep the "mother wights" under your control 24/7.

Of course, all of these methods are VERY shaky as they A) rely on 3.5e rules and numbers, and thus are not applicable to actual PF rules and only work if you bring in some 3.5e and B) are DM dependent, as these rules assume gods get their divinity from being worshiped. Your DM could easily rule worship and number of worshipers has nothing to do with a God's divinity and power level and that the Gods get their godhood from other source you can't hope to access simply by getting people to worship you.

So in the end, this really is your DM's call, and if your character has chasing godhood as his/her prime goal I feel you should really discuss the matter with your DM rather then try and achieve it through RAW that just doesn't exist in straight PF. Your less likely to get books thrown at your head that way and more apt to have a rewarding, enjoyable gaming experience that way.


Okay so in this case, what are some *Narrative* ideas for achieving godhood?


Ask your DM.

The Exchange

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Test of the Starstone, Appealing to the current pantheon to be lifted into their ranks, Travelling directly to a god's plane and try to slay them (most DMs will say no to this, DMs who use the Deities and Demigods rules on the prd might be more open to it, but be prepared to be destroyed either way), Traveling to a prime plane or planet that has no deities and establish yourself as one (It worked for the Dragon Kings of Athas right?).

Or just do something so amazingly epic that a god appoints you. Such as beating a pit fiend in a rock battle with your mighty lute. *shrug* Talk to your DM.


Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:
Ask your DM.

In the case that sometimes having the idea already in mind can help make sure the DM likes the plan, I'd still like to hear ideas from people. Might come up with an idea that would be really fun.

Dark Archive

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That is something you should work with your DM on because it's highly dependent on the setting in question. Divinity can work a number of different ways depending on the setting, so before you can craft a good narrative way of obtaining godhood you should know just exactly what godhood is defined by in your setting. Is it being worshiped/number of worshipers? If thats the case, then a good narrative way to obtain godhood would be for your character to actively go around in the world working to get people to see him/her as a god and do things that would make themselves worthy to be worshiped. Being a high-level mythic character, IMO, is a strong start in this direction. You could RP out you spreading the teachings, forming the foundations of a religion and getting the people to see your views and worship you. Looking at real life cult leaders(for evil) and the founders of major world religions(Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus etc..for good) are a good place to draw ideas for how you could RP out your character getting people to worship something(In particular, themselves)

If it doesn't come from worship, then you'll have to come up with something appropriate for what divinity does come from in your setting. if divinity comes from just being really, really supernaturally powerful then you could possibly "Go Sephiroth" and try to consume/fuse with/absorb some massive amount of mystic energy or massively powerful magical force. If Divinity is something inherent in deities and only deities, then you could study divine power and try to use Scien...err Magic!! to replicate that power for your own. If your character is not inclined to such scholarly work then they could maybe try to earn their divinity by dealing with the gods and currying favor with one of them, as Gods promoting Mortals whom they have a keen interest in to Godhood is not unheard of, and was in fact the origin story for several Gods in D&D. Also, in the default PF setting there is in fact a tournament/challenge/adventure one can take, who's name I forget, that allows one to become a God if they win. Perhaps your setting has something similar? If you DM says yes, then work with them to perhaps setting up such a quest/adventure for your character to go on that ends in Godhood.

There is no easy answer to this, and before a good narrative can be crafted you have to first know how Gods get their power in your setting and likewise if/how a mortal could obtain that power in theory, which are all things you need to ask your DM about.

On a totally unrelated note I actually made a full 20 level base class for 3.5e that is built around the idea of a character who is grabbing at Godhood and while the class never makes you an actual God before epic, you get darn close with a single salient divine ability as the capstone of the class. I'm working on an epic progression for the class that will, eventually, grant you actual Godhood, but not until very high levels....It is undoubtedly a tier 1 class, and balanced to be equal/on-par with other tier 1s rather then balanced against all other classes in the game(as tier 3 is the ideal tier for overall balance in 3.5e while tier 1 is the tier of brokenness.) If any of you want to see the rough outline I have for the class I have so far, feel free to PM me on here.

Scarab Sages

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Plot event: your god dies to prevent another god's plan. Said enemy god is so damaged by the event that it is little more than a demigod for a period. Your hero finishes the job off before it can reascend and you find yourself ascending to godhood to take your god's place.


There's the simple concept of stealing it. Killing a lesser deity or demi-god and using that death as part of a ritual to ascend seems pretty straight forward as a concept. You'd want to build what that ritual looks like and means with your DM (what kind of components for example).

Another is tapping into some sort of arcane source of power, or the source of your bloodline as a sorcerer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
rungok wrote:
Okay so in this case, what are some *Narrative* ideas for achieving godhood?

Aroden did it by making a deal with the Core 20 dieties to create the Test of the Starstone. He later made Iomedae his herald after she completed her Test, and she later "Inherited" his godhood after he passed.

Irori did it by walking a path of self perfection, without even coming near the Starstone. Whether he became mythic during that process is unrevealed.


Something else to consider, what is the character's motivation for ascending? That should inform the how quite a bit.

Power mad sorcerer? kills for it/steals it
Servant of higher power? through great deeds, or to replace said power if it falls
Destined? By achieving said destiny


There are a number of options within the Mythic rules. Mythic tier 10 is immortality and there are abilities to avoid the need to eat, sleep, cease aging. Combined with the ability to grant domain spells I'm not sure what else you need. You are a god in all but name.


Irontruth wrote:

Something else to consider, what is the character's motivation for ascending? That should inform the how quite a bit.

Power mad sorcerer? kills for it/steals it
Servant of higher power? through great deeds, or to replace said power if it falls
Destined? By achieving said destiny

This sorcerer is head of an arcane household of 9-tailed Kitsune Sorcerers in Dtang'ma, and believes in the most general of terms it's about time there's a Kitsune diety to help guide the race's growth and usher the family into the greatest of prestiges. Also it's believed that nine tails are supposed to be nearly godlike anyways (lore considerations), so the sorcerer doesn't think godhood would be too far of a step up.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:
There are a number of options within the Mythic rules. Mythic tier 10 is immortality and there are abilities to avoid the need to eat, sleep, cease aging. Combined with the ability to grant domain spells I'm not sure what else you need. You are a god in all but name.

Not really.. if you still have stats, you're as far from being a God a commoner is from being mythic.


Sounds like Mythic is the next step up though. Didn't Nethys become a god because he made a spell that let him see *everything*?


LazarX wrote:
Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:
There are a number of options within the Mythic rules. Mythic tier 10 is immortality and there are abilities to avoid the need to eat, sleep, cease aging. Combined with the ability to grant domain spells I'm not sure what else you need. You are a god in all but name.
Not really.. if you still have stats, you're as far from being a God a commoner is from being mythic.

Gods have stats, you just don't know them.

Anyways, some ideas:

Carefully worded wish spell. Required a DC 100 Profession (barrister) check as well as several DC 50 knowledge checks regarding the nature of the universe.

Ask your current deity for tips, ascend to demigod as a deific herald, eventually garner your own following of adherents and faithful kind of like the empyreal lords.

Take the test of the Starstone.

Steal another god's divinity, just watch out for a big red mantis monster. Actually, do that with any trick.

Just start eating souls and see what happens.

Just sort of ease into it by becoming immortal, accumulating an unassailable power base, establishing perfectly loyal servitors and a perfectly unblockable (and ever-increasing in power) will, watching over your people and repeatedly save them from troubles as they come to worship and believe in you with a deific fervor and you continue to paternalistically watch over them from your heavenly extra-planar realm and maybe you'll cross the border without even noticing.

Just start eating afterlife petitioners and see what happens.

Find a way to resurrect Aroden. Ask him for tips.

Kill all the aboleth. Mostly on general principle. While mind-ripping their higher-ranked members find out how to call down (and then use) another Starstone.

Just start eating angels and demons and see what happens.

Invent time travel, survive the death and rebirth of the universe.

Wish your way into being a Lantern Archon (in such a way that it's a true transformation, can't be dispelled, and changes your creature type) and start working your way up the angelic ranks.

And my personal favorite: Realize that gods are bound by their natures, and deific existences lacks a certain flavor that mortality brings. Abandon your quest, focus on more important matters, build a great and powerful legacy, do a LOT of work for an existing deity and cut a deal that sees his blessing shine brightest upon your people, live and love many lifetimes of fun and excitement, and party on.

Sovereign Court

Here's a list of all the mortals who have ascended to godhood that I'm aware of:

Aroden: Last of the Azlanti. Inherited the tremendous power the aboleth invested in the Starstone when he raised it from the sea, creating the isle of Kortos.

Cayden Cailean: An honorable but careless mercenary who passed the test of the Starstone in a drunken bet.

Iomedae: Already a hero of the Shining Crusade when she passed the test of the Starstone. Rather than becoming a god in her own right, Aroden chose to make her his herald. After her master's death, she rose to the rank of deity in his stead.

Irori: Achieved total perfection and left his mortal frame behind.

Kurgess: In life, he was a legendary sportsman. After dying to an act of treachery, Desna and Cayden Cailean elevated him to godhood amidst rumors that he was their half-mortal love child.

Nalivinati: Ascended through some previously unknown method. The Pathfinder Society is currently investigating the matter.

Nethys: Achieved mastery of magic and observed all that transpired on all planes. Became both mad and deific.

Norgorber: Passed the test of the Starstone, though how and who he was beforehand is entirely unknown.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Illeist wrote:


Nalivinati: Ascended through some previously unknown method. The Pathfinder Society is currently investigating the matter.

Not the only one.. they stole the Crown of Iomedae as it was the only material object to actually survive a divine ascension. The Church still has a sore point with the Society on that, but said crown got lost when the Chapterhouse in Galt got razed during the ongoing Red Revolution.


boring7 wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:
There are a number of options within the Mythic rules. Mythic tier 10 is immortality and there are abilities to avoid the need to eat, sleep, cease aging. Combined with the ability to grant domain spells I'm not sure what else you need. You are a god in all but name.
Not really.. if you still have stats, you're as far from being a God a commoner is from being mythic.

Gods have stats, you just don't know them.

Anyways, some ideas:

Carefully worded wish spell. Required a DC 100 Profession (barrister) check as well as several DC 50 knowledge checks regarding the nature of the universe.

Ask your current deity for tips, ascend to demigod as a deific herald, eventually garner your own following of adherents and faithful kind of like the empyreal lords.

Take the test of the Starstone.

Steal another god's divinity, just watch out for a big red mantis monster. Actually, do that with any trick.

Just start eating souls and see what happens.

Just sort of ease into it by becoming immortal, accumulating an unassailable power base, establishing perfectly loyal servitors and a perfectly unblockable (and ever-increasing in power) will, watching over your people and repeatedly save them from troubles as they come to worship and believe in you with a deific fervor and you continue to paternalistically watch over them from your heavenly extra-planar realm and maybe you'll cross the border without even noticing.

Just start eating afterlife petitioners and see what happens.

Find a way to resurrect Aroden. Ask him for tips.

Kill all the aboleth. Mostly on general principle. While mind-ripping their higher-ranked members find out how to call down (and then use) another Starstone.

Just start eating angels and demons and see what happens.

Invent time travel, survive the death and rebirth of the universe.

Wish your way into being a Lantern Archon (in...

That's a great list of ideas!

I particularly liked the 'easing into it' option. The sorcerer already has a greater demiplane and has sunk about 100k gold into permanencies on it. That's five castings at level 18. so... quite an expansive realm for a wee little fella. I think with pursuing into getting mythic power would be the next step if I were to do the 'easing in' line of things. then I can surpass the normal mortal requirements and further increase my sorcerer's power.

Would uses of the Gate spell and entreating outsiders (through trade, having them make, etc.) magical items to supplement the sorcerer's powers be good?

I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.

I dunno. Just trying to see what would work.

Scarab Sages

rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.

Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.


Imbicatus wrote:
rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.
Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.

Ooooh... now that cult makes more sense.


I don't believe it's stated whether it was a spell or some sort of ritual, but yeah, Nethys managed to do something that let him know pretty much everything, which caused him to ascend to divinity. Irori became a god via intense discipline and enlightenment. Lamashtu managed to ambush a god and murder him to ascend to divinity. Lao Shu Po fed on the corpse of a god and managed to steal further divinity from the god who murdered the one she fed on later. We know Nalinivati was once a mortal sorceress who used her magic to ascend to divinity, but no details, alas. Besmara was originally a powerful water spirit who destroyed and consumed rival spirits of wood, gold, and battle, eventually becoming a deity.

In general, the primary themes seem to be stealing divinity from those who possess it, destroying and/or devouring powerful spirits and/or a deity, and using your own personal power to find a route to divinity. In Nethys' case, magic, in Irori's case, discipline and self-enlightenment. Though I note that kitsune already have a deity, Daikitsu - Lady of Foxes. Anyways, depends on your character's path, enlightenment might well be something to pursue; barring that, theft or a ritual (or both!) might be routes to consider, though there are many possible paths...perhaps stealing the divine essence of kami? Purifying and devouring malicious oni? Mythic is a good first step, though, and the source of your mythic power might well suggest routes to furthering that power.


Yeah, I think I remember Daikitsu. The Sorcerer would probably want to help build out a fuller, more pantheon-like godhood. It's not a childish ambition; the sorcerer believes that they can do more good that way.

I'll look into Daikitsu and see what lore about her exists.


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I have a 14th level arcane sorcerer with this as one of his goals.

It's long, so I'll put it in a spoiler:
We're planning to go to 18, so we'll see what happens after that. He's a human sorcerer who is descended from three of the seven Runelords, but he's trying to reinvigorate the lost idea of the seven Virtues of Rule. It's going to be part of his portfolio in any case. He's decided that Xin is a more proper role model than Lissala.

His particular plan is to gain deity through epic tasks fitting to what he's planning. His plan is to kill all seven Runelords and take their polearms and convince them all (I think they're all intelligent) to convert back to what he calls their original purpose, the virtues of rule using a high diplomacy score, Limited Wish/Atonement. Then he plans to place them in the hands of trustworthy, good and powerful people and reestablish Thassalon. He'll also make an Artifact level Staff similar to the Staff of the Master, but with all seven schools and spells from level one to seven, then make it intelligent as well.

He's going to try to convince Lissala to return to what he believes was her good and more powerful origin when Xin established Thassalon, but if he can't do that, he'll just ascend and take the position himself. It doesn't matter if he's right or wrong about history, he'll be unable to be convinced to the contrary, and he plans on making it happen. Should he be able to finish this whole plan, then he might end up reaching a good starting point for a run on divinity, but there's no way he's going to get a good shot at what he's going for until he builds an empire.

When he attains deity, I want his profile to include: Diligence, Resonance, Philanthropy, Promotion, and Wages. His Domains and Subdomains: Glory (Honor), Good (Redemption), Law (Archon, Loyalty), Magic (Arcane), and if he gets there: Nobility (Leadership). Sacred Animal: Ram, Favored weapon: Staff. This kind of stuff isn't necessary, but I find it helpful.

All that being said, you want your portfolio to include: prestige, growth, Racial Magic (SLA's) and Lore. maybe something else. You should make plans to do at least a major quest to accomplish something beyond the normal rules in each area. Figure out how to become immortal (mythic tiers do this, I know, but you don't have to rely on that.), See what you can do to get ten or eleven tails (go for 14 if you're feeling particularly ambitious). Bring all of the Kitsune under one government. Compile and train oral historians that can tell the story of the Kitsune back to the very beginning of history. Defeat the enemies of the Kitsune, (Oni or Tengu or something like that) in a particularly spectacular fashion. Gain a ridiculous amount of wealth and spend it on lavish and nearly pointless ornaments.

Just find a bunch of somethings that the paragon of whatever it is that you want your character to be and go and do those things, whether or not such things (sometimes specifically if they aren't) allowed in the rules.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.
Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.

You don't know that. He may simply have not gone far enough yet. Godhood isn't built in a day.

Scarab Sages

That's why I said "so far".

Dark Archive

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Yeah, if you can actually get deified by people worshiping you(which has not been proven to be true for Golarion unlike other published settings...it may very well be the case that worshipers/being worshiped has NOTHING to do with godhood on Golarion) on Golarion, then Razimar is far from actually having enough people who -actually- believe in his divinity to gain godhood. Most of his "clerics" are self-serving arcanists who aren't actually true devout believes and likely -know- Razmir is not actually a god; they are purely in it for the money/power. As a result, Razmir likely just doesn't have enough people who actually legitimately worship him and believe in his dvinity, at least not yet. There is nothing to say that, with time, he won't have enough "true believers" but again, Golarion lore is silent on the matter of deification through worshipers. Thus, it is VERY possible that obtaining godhood is totally divorced from being worshiped on Golarion, since none of it's deities ever achieved their Godhood via worship, at least that we know of. If this is in fact the case, Razmir would never achieve Godhood through obtaining worshipers even if every person on the prime was a true believer in him....so if your game is set on Golarion I'd steer clear of any attempts to gain Godhood through being worshiped.


LazarX wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.
Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.
You don't know that. He may simply have not gone far enough yet. Godhood isn't built in a day.

Tell that to Cayden Cailean.


Nalinivati is said to have created the nagaji. Possibly this is related, and creating your own sentient race would assist?

Edit: or more generally creating something which will last down the ages.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Arachnofiend wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.
Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.
You don't know that. He may simply have not gone far enough yet. Godhood isn't built in a day.
Tell that to Cayden Cailean.

Then YOU go ask HIM how he did it. We'll wait.


LazarX wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
rungok wrote:
I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.
Razmir has been trying this method. So far unsuccessfully.
You don't know that. He may simply have not gone far enough yet. Godhood isn't built in a day.
Tell that to Cayden Cailean.
Then YOU go ask HIM how he did it. We'll wait.

How am I supposed to do that? Cayden Cailean doesn't even remember how he ascended to godhood, we just know it happened over the course of one wild night.

Scarab Sages

It was the bender to end all benders. Some people wake up robbed, some wake up with a tattoo they don't know how they got. Cayden woke up with divine cosmic power.

Sovereign Court

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Depend a lot from the setting but guess another possibility:

Maybe your DM has limited divinity in his setting, which means that someone defeating a god, essentially absorbs their power/divine spark. This might be fairly hard to accomplish.

Keep doing mythic deeds until a god take notice...sponsorship is sometime not a bad idea.

In Greek setting, something that I always found interesting all heroes could trace their lineage to one of the gods, maybe your sorcerer happens to be a son of a god and just need to do his godhood trial. (See Hercules, the disney version for this kind of story)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Takhisis wrote:
Yeah, if you can actually get deified by people worshiping you(which has not been proven to be true for Golarion unlike other published settings...it may very well be the case that worshipers/being worshiped has NOTHING to do with godhood on Golarion) on Golarion, then Razimar is far from actually having enough people who -actually- believe in his divinity to gain godhood. Most of his "clerics" are self-serving arcanists who aren't actually true devout believes and likely -know- Razmir is not actually a god; they are purely in it for the money/power. As a result, Razmir likely just doesn't have enough people who actually legitimately worship him and believe in his dvinity, at least not yet. There is nothing to say that, with time, he won't have enough "true believers" but again, Golarion lore is silent on the matter of deification through worshipers. Thus, it is VERY possible that obtaining godhood is totally divorced from being worshiped on Golarion, since none of it's deities ever achieved their Godhood via worship, at least that we know of. If this is in fact the case, Razmir would never achieve Godhood through obtaining worshipers even if every person on the prime was a true believer in him....so if your game is set on Golarion I'd steer clear of any attempts to gain Godhood through being worshiped.

Actually that's not quite the case. Moving up the ranks in Razmir's cult generally means either accepting greater levels of brainwashing. (Much like Scientology), or you're never seen again.


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rungok wrote:

That's a great list of ideas!

I particularly liked the 'easing into it' option. The sorcerer already has a greater demiplane and has sunk about 100k gold into permanencies on it. That's five castings at level 18. so... quite an expansive realm for a wee little fella. I think with pursuing into getting mythic power would be the next step if I were to do the 'easing in' line of things. then I can surpass the normal mortal requirements and further increase my sorcerer's power.

Would uses of the Gate spell and entreating outsiders (through trade, having them make, etc.) magical items to supplement the sorcerer's powers be good?

I've seen people say that Leadership isn't really useful to someone trying to attain godhood. If I wanted to try to slowly gain godhood, could I take leadership (with my really high charisma) and have them not necessarily worship me but have my followers tasked with spreading the word to the region I am guarding? Maybe over time the people that come to replace the orignal members actually do believe the hype, and the ones the generation after that might really Venerate the Sorcerer. Then by the generation after that I could actually have clerics.

I dunno. Just trying to see what would work.

The key elements are ever-increasing power (mythic tiers) doing great mythic deeds (Always Be Campaigning) and loyalty of subordinates (Always Faithful). Leadership is good, but you only get one cohort, and followers who aren't necessarily powerful enough to be useful. Still good in a pinch.

This thread had items for other ways of delegating and avataring yourself. And Mythic (and a few spells) are good for empowering your minions, let alone juicing them up with super buff spells and magic items before they go on missions.

Demiplane is good, but it's still just a demiplane. A more permanent and non-dispellable power base in Nirvana is better.

Turning your demiplane into a Webway allows a variety of things, including rapid deployment of aid to hot zones and the construction of a trade empire. Gates are simple enough to add, and each one can be planted wherever you want on Golarion (inside privately-owned and well-defended waystations) or beyond. Also a good place to invite angels when you're either hiring them to do good deeds somewhere or getting hired by them to do dangerous deeds somewhere. Sometimes Hound Archon packs like to have a den they can hang out in, and as long as they know where the gates are, they can teleport to them no matter what plane they're on.

A major component to gods is that they have portfolios and embodiments and themes. Daikitsu, for example, is all about peaceful villages full of kitsune (Agriculture, craftsmanship, kitsune, and rice). Adopting a persona that isn't stomping on the toes of the gods you're already aligned with tends to be a good idea, and there's room for a teaching trickster-protector with lots of tails. Not to mention the "protector" aspect is really easy to work since you just listen for trouble and then go/send minions to stop the trouble.

Ultimately, none of this may work, which is why you'll be doing your job and getting people to believe in you (only in the interests of teaching and helping) while also constantly investigating new ways of increasing your own power.

Possible obsessive great works (that take centuries to complete) off the top of my head:

An artifact Orrery that lets you see All The Things.

Binding your magic and your soul to the spirit of your people so that when you really focus you can hear any Kitsune in distress.

An Ultimate Weapon against Qlippoth, designed to kill the next Spawn of Rovagug or any invasions by the Qlippoth in Tianjing.

Total Mastery and understanding of Doors, including portals to other dimensions, such as the Worldwound or the rifts in Tianjing.

An army of mentally-linked clone/simulacra that can act in your stead in many places at once, doing lower magics focused around trickery, sneaking, and good-natured trouble. Bonus points for being able to reabsorb them and their experiences after they've had adventures, just like real avatars.

A mighty but good empire.

A really, really clever prank, like stealing Asmodeus' Key and returning it with some notes on how to improve his security.

Anyway, time to brush my teeth and go to bed.


Steal Rogavug's tail with out setting him free.


Nethys was kind of like Dr. Manhattan in some respects. Cast his spell, gain knowledge, gets torn apart, and then pulls himself back together.

Bear in mind though that most(If not all) who ascended to divinity didn't have godhood as an end goal but as a step towards something else.

Iomadae = Be a better servant of Aroden.
Cayden Cailean = Why not?
Irori = Self mastery.
Norgorber = Secrets
Aroden = The furtherance of humans.
Neythis = Knowledge
Sarenrae = Not striving for it, but service was her goal.
Asmodeus = Control and the destruction of free will.

You get the idea.


LazarX wrote:
Grokk_Bloodfist wrote:
There are a number of options within the Mythic rules. Mythic tier 10 is immortality and there are abilities to avoid the need to eat, sleep, cease aging. Combined with the ability to grant domain spells I'm not sure what else you need. You are a god in all but name.
Not really.. if you still have stats, you're as far from being a God a commoner is from being mythic.

Depends if you are wanting to continue playing that character as a god. When you no longer have stats I'm pretty sure you are done.


The NPC wrote:

Nethys was kind of like Dr. Manhattan in some respects. Cast his spell, gain knowledge, gets torn apart, and then pulls himself back together.

Bear in mind though that most(If not all) who ascended to divinity didn't have godhood as an end goal but as a step towards something else.

Iomadae = Be a better servant of Aroden.
Cayden Cailean = Why not?
Irori = Self mastery.
Norgorber = Secrets
Aroden = The furtherance of humans.
Neythis = Knowledge
Sarenrae = Not striving for it, but service was her goal.
Asmodeus = Control and the destruction of free will.

You get the idea.

Sarenrae and Asmodeus didn't really "ascend" to godhood, since they've been around since the Beginning. The rest are valid, though.


There is no limit to Character Levels.

You can go to level 21+ by simply gaining twice as much XP as you needed to reach your last Character level.

You need 1,050,000xp to advance from level 19 to 20. Therefore you need 2,100,000xp to advance from 20 to 21, 4,200,000xp to advanced from 21 to 22, 8,400,000xp to advanced from 22 to 23, etc.

While Classes don't go above level 20, one thing we do know is that Multiclassing is absolutely a thing in Pathfinder, as are Prestige Classes, so there's more than enough ways for players to advanced their characters well into the mid 20s and even up to lv30.

There aren't rules for "Epic Levels" in part because Epic Rules are utter crap. The rules that define adventuring from levels 1 to 20 actually work just as well at level 21+; you need to make encounters more challenging, obviously, but all the Epic Rules for 3.0/3.5 were imbalanced jank, operating on the false idea that 21+ had to be treated differently than sub-level-20 play.

Mythic Rules were a neat way of bypassing the "21+ Needs to Be Better" mentallity while also placating to it: Mythic can be used to create characters that are "greater" than your typical lv1-20 PCs in a way that wasn't too thematically-dissimilar to the Immortal Rules from Basic D&D; it was also a way to create Deity-like characters in a more cohesive manner than those presented in Deities & Demigods in 3.0/3.5; and it was a way to let DMs run "Epic" campaigns without having to revisit and fix the garbled broken mess that is the Epic Level Handbook and without having to force DMs to use the 21+ progression model of exponential XP gains by presenting an entirely-new system of character advancement.

If you basically don't assume "Mythic = 21+ advancement!" and instead think of it as "slowly becoming a full Deity" regardless of Character Level (and just use the built-in 21+ advancement system already in place), the all-around imbalance makes a lot more sense.


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Arachnofiend wrote:
How am I supposed to do that? Cayden Cailean doesn't even remember how he ascended to godhood, we just know it happened over the course of one wild night.

My headcanon is that Caiden solo'd the Tomb of Horrors in his drunken stupor, punching the Mouth of the Great Green Devil to pieces (which should be impossible, as it's rightfully an Artifact), plowed his way through the rooms setting off every trap & falling into every poisonous pit trap but didn't succumb to a one, ripped the Four-Armed Gargoyle's arms clear off its torso ala Beowulf, stopped to blow his nose on the Green Slime & Brown Mold Tapestries, broke the Juggernaut by kicking it, put on the Crown & then smacked it so hard with the Electrum Scepter that it BROKE before it could disintegrate him, punched through the Doors of Adamantine and swam through the resulting lake of blood, grabbed the Siren AND The Bag of Holding at the exact same so that neither disappeared, and finally defeated Acererak through brute force by pulling up the Silver Chamber with his bare hands and then EATING THE DEMILICH, THINKING IT WAS A MARZIPAN SKULL.

The shear hilarious badassery would be enough to warrant passing the Test of the Starstone, frankly.


chbgraphicarts wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
How am I supposed to do that? Cayden Cailean doesn't even remember how he ascended to godhood, we just know it happened over the course of one wild night.

My headcanon is that Caiden solo'd the Tomb of Horrors in his drunken stupor, punching the Mouth of the Great Green Devil to pieces (which should be impossible, as it's rightfully an Artifact), plowed his way through the rooms, setting off every trap but not succombing to a one, ripping the Four-Armed Gargoyle's arms clear off its torso ala Beowulf, breaking the Juggernaut by kicking it, put on the Crown & then smacked it so hard with the Electrum Scepter that it BROKE before it could disintegrate him, he punched through the Doors of Adamantine and swam through the resulting lake of blood, grabbed the Siren AND The Bag of Holding at the exact same so that neither disappeared, and finally defeating Acererak through brute force by pulling up the Silver Chamber with his bare hands and then EATING THE DEMILICH, THINKING IT WAS A MARZIPAN SKULL.

The shear hilarious badassery would be enough to warrant passing the Test of the Starstone, frankly.

I found this hilariously amusing. I think a one-shot story about what kind of drunken shenanigans Caiden pulled would be amusing as all hell.


Arachnofiend wrote:
The NPC wrote:

Nethys was kind of like Dr. Manhattan in some respects. Cast his spell, gain knowledge, gets torn apart, and then pulls himself back together.

Bear in mind though that most(If not all) who ascended to divinity didn't have godhood as an end goal but as a step towards something else.

Iomadae = Be a better servant of Aroden.
Cayden Cailean = Why not?
Irori = Self mastery.
Norgorber = Secrets
Aroden = The furtherance of humans.
Neythis = Knowledge
Sarenrae = Not striving for it, but service was her goal.
Asmodeus = Control and the destruction of free will.

You get the idea.

Sarenrae and Asmodeus didn't really "ascend" to godhood, since they've been around since the Beginning. The rest are valid, though.

They jumped the gap between demigod and god. That's an ascension of a sort.


What do you want to be the god of? I don't mean domains, but the actual title--god of thunder, god of dwarves, god of money, etc. That would be helpful in determining story ideas. Also, if your setting already has a god of what you want to be the god of, then you probably need to consider how to deal with said god. In Golorian's Inner Sea, there isn't a lot of overlap, except for ending the world (and there one is lazy, one is stuck in a hole, and one is hiding out from his dad). Also, most Pathfinder deities have a favored class. Wizard is already taken.


Good Question
The sorcerer wants to be the god of Enchantment and Illusions, Passions, Families, Kitsune, and Beauty.

Kind of wanting to sit next to Daikitsu as a god of interpersonal Kitsune relationships, the natural kitsune inclinations for magic and grace.


rungok wrote:

Good Question

The sorcerer wants to be the god of Enchantment and Illusions, Passions, Families, Kitsune, and Beauty.

Kind of wanting to sit next to Daikitsu as a god of interpersonal Kitsune relationships, the natural kitsune inclinations for magic and grace.

Something to keep in mind full gods usually have three or four areas of concern. You might want to shave off or combine some things. Your character, your story of course. I just thought it worth mentioning.


Good point. I think I can blend Enchantment/Illusions into something, and Beauty/Passions


The NPC wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
The NPC wrote:

Nethys was kind of like Dr. Manhattan in some respects. Cast his spell, gain knowledge, gets torn apart, and then pulls himself back together.

Bear in mind though that most(If not all) who ascended to divinity didn't have godhood as an end goal but as a step towards something else.

Iomadae = Be a better servant of Aroden.
Cayden Cailean = Why not?
Irori = Self mastery.
Norgorber = Secrets
Aroden = The furtherance of humans.
Neythis = Knowledge
Sarenrae = Not striving for it, but service was her goal.
Asmodeus = Control and the destruction of free will.

You get the idea.

Sarenrae and Asmodeus didn't really "ascend" to godhood, since they've been around since the Beginning. The rest are valid, though.
They jumped the gap between demigod and god. That's an ascension of a sort.

IIRC in the Golario setting Asmodeus started as a full god along his brother Ihys while Sarenrae was an Empyreal Lord that ascended to full godhood when Ihys was killed.

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