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You can play Pathfinder without owning the books, but if you want to play in the organized play campaign, you need to own the books you are using options from. Running PFS takes money, and it's got to come from somewhere.
EDIT: and lots of decent characters are core rulebook only; in fact, it's enough to support its own campaign!
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Yes. You must own any source from which you use a rule, whether it's a physical copy or the PDF.
Bonus answer: You can play CORE Campaign rules, wherein you are limited to rules from the Core Rulebook and the things you find on chronicles (which, if you choose to subsequently make use of them, you must then own the source material, just so you know).
CORE Campaign rules can be found HERE.
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What hasn't been mentioned so far is that watermarked PDFs are also acceptable. You can get started with just the Core Rulebook for $10.
Even if you only play once, that is $10 for at least 4 hours of entertainment. That's a better deal than a movie, even in the cheap theaters!
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Oh, one other option. You can test the waters by playing Pre-generated characters for a couple weeks. If you find that PFS is for you, buy the books you need. Otherwise, no sweat.
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In order to play that character you would need to own copies of Core Rulebook, Advanced Race Guide (Ancestral Arms), Advanced Player's Guide (Polearm Master), Ultimate Campaign (Reactionary), and Humans of Golarion (Bred For War).
That, and the interest in making a pet rock look like a positively amazing conversation partner by comparison :)
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Trade the fauchard with glaive. You get Skill Focus back. And you don't need to buy the Advanced Race Guide. Trade Bred for War with a trait from the web enhancement and lose the polearm master archetype, and you won't need to buy Humans of Golarion or the Advanced Player's Guide.
Edit: here is the link to the web enhancement. Scroll down to "character traits".
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thing is i really wanted to build a trip fighter and if i have to buy the books well it would take me about 4months of saving money to buy them.Trade the fauchard with glaive. You get Skill Focus back. And you don't need to buy the Advanced Race Guide. Trade Bred for War with a trait from the web enhancement and lose the polearm master archetype, and you won't need to buy Humans of Golarion or the Advanced Player's Guide.
Edit: here is the link to the web enhancement. Scroll down to "character traits".
You can build a trip fighter with just the Core Rulebook. Take a guisarme instead of a glaive. At first level, your CMB to trip is +8. If you get a masterwork weapon, it goes up to +9.
$10.
If you want all of the options you listed, you will need to spend about $40.
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well looks like i can't game until i either A. have money or B. my old group gets done with life stuff soon. cause i really don't like needing to pay to play when other people in the same session have the books thats why i never needed them and the online source for material for leveling characters i never needed any books. and also i don't want to have to lug around 10 different books just to play a character to lvl 12. 1 or 2 books is fine but not a whole library of books just to be able to have access to all the content.
As others have said, you can buy the watermarked .pdfs for about $10 a piece. If you have a tablet or laptop, you can just bring the books on that. Or, you can print out the watermarked pages that you need for a given character, and just bring those. You don't have to carry all the physical books with you.
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Also, as has been stated... You do not need a ton of books, just those you are using to build your characters! Really, that is not a lot for Paizo and the Pathfinder Society to ask. Part of the reason you need the books is so that they are available for the GM to see, since he GM is not required to own every single book. In fact, they are required to only have the same minimum required book... The Core Rule Book. They may have more, but only the CRB is required
I've never actually thought about this before but while looking into this for Jonhl I came up with a question that is relevant to this discussion.
Are you required to buy the Core Rulebook to build a character using it for PFS?
I mean, I would hope you buy it to support Paizo and the great staff, but looking at the guide, I am not seeing where it says you have to buy the Core Rulebook, did I miss it?
Under The Core Assumption it says :"Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that everyplayer has the following resources.
• Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook
• Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play"
so it assumes you have it, but if you don't it doesn't say it requires it. Later it says " In addition to having these materials, players and
Game Masters are expected to be familiar with..."
Once again, it doesn't say required to have, but expected.
Later on under Additional Resources it says : " In order to utilize content from an Additional Resource, a player must have a physical copy of the Additional Resource in question, a name-watermarked Paizo PDF of it, or a printout of the relevant pages from it, as well as a copy of the current version of the Additional Resources list."
Here is where it says what products you must own (anything not included in core assumption basically) if you want to have options from those books.
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In order to play that character you would need to own copies of Core Rulebook, Advanced Race Guide (Ancestral Arms), Advanced Player's Guide (Polearm Master), Ultimate Campaign (Reactionary), and Humans of Golarion (Bred For War).
That, and the interest in making a pet rock look like a positively amazing conversation partner by comparison :)
You missed one, by the way. Fauchard comes from Classic Horrors Revisited, it is a weapon in the Derro section of the book.
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Isn't Ancestral Arms also in the APG? I'm also pretty sure that Reactionary is part of the free Traits supplement.
In any case, if you lost Bred for War and went with a different polearm, you're good with only the Core Rulebook and the APG. That means that your total cost for PDFs is about $20.
Yes, you need to pay money to this publishing company to play in the campaign that they run. That's not unusual; just be happy that they put all of their core books online for free so you can see what you'll be getting before you purchase.
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In order to play that character you would need to own copies of Core Rulebook, Advanced Race Guide (Ancestral Arms), Advanced Player's Guide (Polearm Master), Ultimate Campaign (Reactionary), and Humans of Golarion (Bred For War).
That, and the interest in making a pet rock look like a positively amazing conversation partner by comparison :)
reactionary is in advanced player's guide, so you don't need ultimate campaign.
and mergy is right ancestral arms is in APG as well.
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I'm pretty much in the same boat. I buy about 2-3 books a year and might get a PF book for Christmas or my birthday. I have a few characters that are core rulebook only and have been in play since season 0 (my Wizard, rogue/shadowdancer, and Ranger). There's really no need for all the various books even in regular PFS. Just have fun!
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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well looks like i can't game until i either A. have money or B. my old group gets done with life stuff soon. cause i really don't like needing to pay to play when other people in the same session have the books thats why i never needed them and the online source for material for leveling characters i never needed any books. and also i don't want to have to lug around 10 different books just to play a character to lvl 12. 1 or 2 books is fine but not a whole library of books just to be able to have access to all the content.
Well there are plenty of options when building a trip fighter, and frankly I think that it would be a good idea to have alternative options, quite a number of creatures aren't really vulnerable to trip at the higher levels.
Of course investing a trait to improve that terrible will save is not a bad idea.EDIT: Nothing is actually stopping you, from borrowing books from players in your regular gaming group, you just have to bring the source, either as the physical book or as a watermarked pdf.
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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I don't think core book is required, the model for new people is to play it and buy the book if they think it's something they like. When new people come to play at a game store it's unlikely they have the book already.
My reading of the core assumption is that that a CRB is supposed to be on the table, thus no one actually has to bring it. Of course it is nice to have access to it, but masterwork tools and the PRD can be far quicker.
Playing a couple of pregens might be a nice idea.
And sorry, while threads like this one aren't exactly common and a sympathize with people with very limited income, somehow people come to the conclusion that they "have" to play perfectly built characters.
The APG pdf and maybe the ACG pdf are plenty to build a lot of pretty nice characters.
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Your chances of any particular item being audited are inversely proportional to the tonnage you show up to the table with.
Naked: We're going to need to see your social security number sir...
With kindle: You got some PDFs on there?
Backpack: Meh. you're alright.
Geek bag large enough to hold a geek: right this way!
Handcart: here's your ez pass
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Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria
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Guys you really don't know how I tend to arrive at PFS these days, I carry a freaking box (I think the largest size IKEA sells..) it is filled with snacks, and my culinary experiments I want people to try, but that is besides the point.
Considering how much I will have to bring to the next convention where I actually GM... I might have to buy a donkey, or steal a Supermarket cart ^^
Naked: We're going to need to see your social security number sir...
Sir, you have been randomly selected for an audit, please follow me into that windowless room over there...
Of course these days I have almost everything on the tablet with some exceptions like a the some Bestiaries, the ARG and a couple of softcovers. It was an investment, but my back is already cursing at me, at those 9AM to 11 PM Game Days ^^
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Considering how much I will have to bring to the next convention where I actually GM... I might have to buy a donkey, or steal a Supermarket cart ^^
I find this to be an amusing thing for me. When I went to Gen Con a couple years ago, I started off with a full backpack, two minis cases, a beverage/snack cooler, and a stuffed duffle bag because I was so sure I needed ALL of it! Day 2? Lost the duffle, cooler, and one mini case. By the end of it, I had everything in my backpack. It's amazing what one will do to clear up the aisles around the table.
On topic, however, I will throw in the point that I have a lvl 13 ranger who is 90% Core Rulebook material. He took a feat here and there from other sources, but mostly it's Core. And level 13. And he's died I think once. I like my physical books, but I go for printed PDF pages when I know I'm gonna be hauling it all.
Now I am blessed to have been able to purchase a couple physical books, and I do tend to carry them in a nice sized bag, but typically I won't crack them open at the table. They're just there to say "Yeah, I have 'em." There are those occasions, however, when I know where it is in the book and can find it faster than using Masterwork Tools.
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Core expevtation or not, you need to own the core rulebook.
This one is a bit of a grey area. You are "assumed to own" the Core Rulebook, but there is no requirement to actually prove ownership of the CRB.
Virtually everyone gets one pretty quickly, so I don't think there's any harm caused by leaving this one a little fuzzy.
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Core expevtation or not, you need to own the core rulebook.This one is a bit of a grey area. You are "assumed to own" the Core Rulebook, but there is no requirement to actually prove ownership of the CRB.
Virtually everyone gets one pretty quickly, so I don't think there's any harm caused by leaving this one a little fuzzy.
You don't have to show ownership of the CRB to play options from it. So, it's not something someone would audit and deny use from if you don't have it with you.
That said, it's not gray or fuzzy. As you said, You are "assumed to own", and the rule is called the expectation, so yes buying the core is expected of all participants.
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Core expevtation or not, you need to own the core rulebook.This one is a bit of a grey area. You are "assumed to own" the Core Rulebook, but there is no requirement to actually prove ownership of the CRB.
Virtually everyone gets one pretty quickly, so I don't think there's any harm caused by leaving this one a little fuzzy.
You don't have to show ownership of the CRB to play options from it. So, it's not something someone would audit and deny use from if you don't have it with you.
That said, it's not gray or fuzzy. As you said, You are "assumed to own", and the rule is called the expectation, so yes buying the core is expected of all participants.
Agreed.
Let me put it another way. There is no enforcement action that would result from not owning the CRB.
I am not, by the way, advocating non-ownership of the CRB. Just pointing out that it won't get you kicked from a table.
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I'll also say that my personal preference is that people save up their money and buy a physical copy of the CRB from their FLGS (even if that means violating the assumption for a certain period of time) than that they immediately by the PDF from Paizo just to be in compliance of a rule with no enforcement provisions.
But then, my favorite FLGS just went out of business, so that's where my head's at.
I would not expect any VO to advocate such a stance, because, as mentioned above, that is against the PFS campaign rules.
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I'll also say that my personal preference is that people save up their money and buy a physical copy of the CRB from their FLGS (even if that means violating the assumption for a certain period of time) than that they immediately by the PDF from Paizo just to be in compliance of a rule with no enforcement provisions.
But then, my favorite FLGS just went out of business, so that's where my head's at.
I would not expect any VO to advocate such a stance, because, as mentioned above, that is against the PFS campaign rules.
Nope. I actually, have no problem with that. Mike has even stated on occasion, that it's fine to come and play without buying the CRB to start. However, 2, 3, 4, whatever games days/weeks down the road after the player decides they like PFS and wish to continue they should pick up the CRB however is most convenient for them.
EDIT: Post from Mike...so feel free to have them save and support their local stores while testing the waters.
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Oh that is a totally different case, you just get sanctioned under the mental health act until your delusions stop ^^But I'm a vow of poverty monk!
Naked: We're going to need to see your social security number sir...
I thought that they got the full cavity search to make sure they don't have anything they aren't supposed to have, like a bankbook from the Bank of Abadar, secreted on their person...
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I wish that keeping some rules specifically a grey area was actually specifically mentioned so we know where there's leeway and where there isn't, so we don't get a situation where we have one person saying the core rulebook is a requirement and another person saying it's not a requirement but you should get it.
If we're told to use common sense in a particular area that seems fuzzy, it's easy to know for sure whether we're doing the right thing or not. If we're told nothing at all, there's confusion over what the expectation is.
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There is a reason why this is spelled out in the Guide to Organized Play:
1 - Paizo is a business, they need to make money, PFS is a way of advertising for them.
2 - If I pay for book 'X' to use a feat from it, shouldn't everyone, that's the fairest option.
I GM mostly and am not known for doing audits ever, but if you bust out the clear spindle ioun stone or cast emergency force sphere I will probably be asking you for a source.
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From the Quick Start Guide:
The Core Assumption
Pathfinder Society Organized Play assumes that every
player has the following:
• Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook
• Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play
If this is your first game, you can share these resources
with one of your fellow gamers and pick up your own
copies when you have the chance.