Goblin Squad Member
|
These abilities are still way to strong. When my 1000 exp alt can do as much damage as my two month old toon something is wrong.
The basic attacks should enable you to kill starting mobs and that is it. Ammo will not balance this, so don't try to use that excuse. The great sword and spear exploits hit just as hard as the long bow one. They all need to be tuned way down.
I imagine that a ranged slow or a melee stun would even be handy for the PvE crowd.
:braces self for the scream of:
"Moar DPS!"
.
Also, the 1k Alts should be removed from the game.
While I totally get why you'd ask that, there are Eve players who train a character for a particular task and then train another for something else.
Getting camped into one place by enemies and having ZERO other PFO play options would be very very unpleasant.
But if you're saying make them zero point alts and require us to actually train it, well, I don't have a good objection to that.
I do think the 1K alts help people experiment on initial and early builds to try feats out, so maybe timing that option out on an account after 8 weeks have passed or 100 hours of play?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'm not sure why they even have feats in the game that are not able to be trained like all the others. I say just remove them from the game.
They're there so that you can use any weapon you pick up, at minimum effectiveness. They're not trainable, but they're free; before the Basics were implemented you would have zero usable attacks with any weapon until you spent XP on attacks for it.
I'm not sure why they even have feats in the game that are not able to be trained like all the others. I say just remove them from the game.
Earlier threads I'd seen suggested they were meant to keep new players relevant to a t2 equipped world next year, without letting THAT skill scale up.
But I like the crowdforging of "relevant", so far, if that's where we're going.
|
Goblinworks Game Designer
|
The exploits were an experiment in training people to make use of conditionals. That they just add precision and damage was to make them very easy to understand. I'm not sure they've had the desired effect, because they seem to be making people value them as a source of pure damage, when conditionals are generally for making good use of the other effects in the system.
So we may look at making them more varied in their conditionals rather than just incentivizing going for the biggest straight up damage numbers.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
.
Also, the 1k Alts should be removed from the game.
While I totally get why you'd ask that, there are Eve players who train a character for a particular task and then train another for something else.
Getting camped into one place by enemies and having ZERO other PFO play options would be very very unpleasant.
But if you're saying make them zero point alts and require us to actually train it, well, I don't have a good objection to that.
I do think the 1K alts help people experiment on initial and early builds to try feats out, so maybe timing that option out on an account after 8 weeks have passed or 100 hours of play?
Ehh, I don't mind if they are there, if you are paying for their EXP, I am just saying that they are way to versatile for free. If they had X play time, that wouldn't be a bad compromise.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So we may look at making them more varied in their conditionals rather than just incentivizing going for the biggest straight up damage numbers.
I think I speak for all Wizards when I beg you to make the Basic Longbow Exploit trigger on something other than Opportunity.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I agree that the base damage is a lot for a free attack, but one thing to bear in mind is that the Basic Exploits will only be effective in T1 and early T2. They don't improve with keywords (as they only have 1 level), so give it a few months and they won't be as popular. However, I agree that reducing the conditional base damage increase and replacing it with some other effect (slowed, afflicted, etc) will make it a little more balanced in T1.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Simply tossing a 6 second cooldown on the LB exploit is a good start, IMO. Not so sure it needs to be nerfed. My build doesn't use it and will kill any longbowman who *is* using it, whatever tier armor they are in.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
So we may look at making them more varied in their conditionals rather than just incentivizing going for the biggest straight up damage numbers.I think I speak for all Wizards when I beg you to make the Basic Longbow Exploit trigger on something other than Opportunity.
From the love they've been giving wiz I wouldn't be surprised if they had it rigger on targeting an arcane lol. Sorry wizards don't get to be good. You want to be awesome interesting spell slinger noooo you get to be a clown and make funky colours on the battle feild neat o weeeeee.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
The exploits were an experiment in training people to make use of conditionals. That they just add precision and damage was to make them very easy to understand. I'm not sure they've had the desired effect, because they seem to be making people value them as a source of pure damage, when conditionals are generally for making good use of the other effects in the system.
So we may look at making them more varied in their conditionals rather than just incentivizing going for the biggest straight up damage numbers.
The issue with the ranged exploit, which seems to be the one that makes the min/max training fans the most upset (as it makes the whole "learn complicated game rules to be superior" exercise pointless) is the synergy with opportunity.
There is simply not a situation other than very first shot where a ranged fighter does not get opportunity as every enemy is either shooting, casting or running/charging. You always get opportunity. Hence the target having opportunity is effectively NOT a conditional for ranged fighters it is a normal state.
shhh!
just kidding. That may very well be why people gravitate to longbows.
But what explains that the second most used weapon is the staff? I'm not talking enervating field buffs, but the folks who actually attack with it.
Is their basic exploit a sock rocker on a common conditional, or is it just that their trained cantrips rock out even at low levels, to offset their cloth armor? (bwahahahaha, cloth armor, that's a good one... sorry couldn't resist)
Because when I see people hunting and PvPing (in tier 1 gear) 80+% of them are fighting with longbows and staves.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Not always. Some attacks that cause opportunity will also interrupt your attack, like all the bandit archers do. It can be very difficult, sometimes impossible, to take out higher-level knights before your stationary shots slow you down enough to get hit (not to mention how many attacks in the game slow you). Also, ogres can do ranged attacks without provoking opportunity. And enemies often fail to provoke opportunity when running after you, though that may be a bug. And as for PVP, like Sspitfire said, anyone spamming an interrupt has nothing to fear from basic longbow exploit.
interrupts are indeed the counter.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Grace, there are no basic attacks for staff/wand/focus, they're all purchased with XP. And until they add in armor penalties, you can wear plate armor and use a staff... which does close-range massive damage that is well offset in my opinion by cloth armor, but with heavy armor is definitely OP.
Grace, there are no basic attacks for staff/wand/focus, they're all purchased with XP. And until they add in armor penalties, you can wear plate armor and use a staff... which does close-range massive damage that is well offset in my opinion by cloth armor, but with heavy armor is definitely OP.
I'm shocked, shocked I say, to discover players gravitating to overpowered builds! ;-)
Please ignore the longbow on my back. :-)
Actually I'm taking longbow far higher, so the basic exploit will soon(?) be immaterial to my build.
Now if only I had an AoE.
Oooh, do we have one? I've spent so much time on my gathering character I haven't fully looked into my combat character's choices.
Must crowd forge feat named Valley of Volleys.
Self explanatory.
LOL
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Staff can be useful for taking down large numbers of low-level mobs, which is why they added the cooldown, but I don't know if it's necessary. Compare Wraith's Cry to Whirlwind: they cost the same stamina, Whirlwind does 3x damage and Wraith's Cry does 3.8, so Wraith's Cry does higher. Whirlwind is a smaller area of effect. Wraith's Cry has a cooldown of 12, and Whirlwind of 2. Whirlwind can be used by someone in heavy armor, where Wraith's Cry will in the future do much less damage if you're wearing heavy armor... without numbers, one could guess it will end up doing similar or less damage than Whirlwind in armor. It will also cost ammunition while Whirlwind will not. The armor limitation and ammunition I think would be enough to make up for the extra damage and slightly larger area without having to add a cooldown, at least not as large as they have.
What it comes down to with longbow exploit for me is that a massive damage "kill it before it kills you" strategy is an easy one to figure out, and is always the first strategy to get criticized as overpowered. Stunning someone into oblivion will be the second strategy to get criticized, as it's annoying. But is it actually overpowered? I'm not so sure.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
|
The exploits were an experiment in training people to make use of conditionals. That they just add precision and damage was to make them very easy to understand. I'm not sure they've had the desired effect, because they seem to be making people value them as a source of pure damage, when conditionals are generally for making good use of the other effects in the system.
So we may look at making them more varied in their conditionals rather than just incentivizing going for the biggest straight up damage numbers.
Try fixing them to have less base damage boost and more stacking debuff.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But what explains that the second most used weapon is the staff? I'm not talking enervating field buffs, but the folks who actually attack with it.
Is their basic exploit a sock rocker on a common conditional...?
There are no Basic Attacks for Staff, Wand, or Focus; you can't use them unless you spend XP first.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What a pity if they would take away the extra damage on exploit when you correctly use the conditional.
Some may know that I think most State---->conditional follow up attacks are *way* too short in their state-duration, as well as weak in the effect you get when you follow up succesfully.
Exept with " Opportunity ---> Exploit. So I finally managed to find a use for one of my Manouvers which causes 1 round of Opportunity and Flatfooted. When I am shooting with my bow, and one of these baddies closes in on me, I now use this Manouver, and then finish him off with exploit. I do this with red and orange mobs that have come in melee distance.
We only get to use spells and manouvers once during combat (again, weak-sauce) but at least I have found this one combo that I can actually work with, and feel like I am being powerful when I do the right tings.
If you would take away the extra damage of Exploit and only leave the weak-sauce Precision and other conditionals on them, I will stop using that too.
With all the Countdowns and cooldowns, and "once per combat" and "5 second duration buffs and debuffs" and "10 Oblivious"(oooh, minus 5 to attack) I constantly feel like a total gimp in this game.
Need more empowerment for combat in this game, not less.
I agree with Phyllains overall premisse though, exept that i would say: use the Opportunity-->Exploit effect as a baseline for empowerment and pull Expendables, Utilities (ugh, more 5-second weaksauce)and Buff/debuff durations to the same level of empowerment.
Why can we use Expendables only once? If people want to burn through their power in 2 fights, then let them. This creates choices and options. Also, what's with the 2-hour cooldown on camps? Again, extremely restrictive.
Stephen, step away from the spreadsheets and open a can of Fun.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What a pity if they would take away the extra damage on exploit when you correctly use the conditional.
Some may know that I think most State---->conditional follow up attacks are *way* too short in their state-duration, as well as weak in the effect you get when you follow up succesfully.
Exept with " Opportunity ---> Exploit. So I finally managed to find a use for one of my Manouvers which causes 1 round of Opportunity and Flatfooted. When I am shooting with my bow, and one of these baddies closes in on me, I now use this Manouver, and then finish him off with exploit. I do this with red and orange mobs that have come in melee distance.
We only get to use spells and manouvers once during combat (again, weak-sauce) but at least I have found this one combo that I can actually work with, and feel like I am being powerful when I do the right tings.
If you would take away the extra damage of Exploit and only leave the weak-sauce Precision and other conditionals on them, I will stop using that too.
With all the Countdowns and cooldowns, and "once per combat" and "5 second duration buffs and debuffs" and "10 Oblivious"(oooh, minus 5 to attack) I constantly feel like a total gimp in this game.
Need more empowerment for combat in this game, not less.
I agree with Phyllains overall premisse though, exept that i would say: use the Opportunity-->Exploit effect as a baseline for empowerment and pull Expendables, Utilities (ugh, more 5-second weaksauce)and Buff/debuff durations to the same level of empowerment.
Why can we use Expendables only once? If people want to burn through their power in 2 fights, then let them. This creates choices and options. Also, what's with the 2-hour cooldown on camps? Again, extremely restrictive.
Stephen, step away from the spreadsheets and open a can of Fun.
I agree the durration of buff/debuffs is waaay to short and also they should all work on pc's and npc's equally so that players who have not engaged in pvp will have a clue.