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I have several low-Strength characters. Recently one of them was in a scenario where a rope would have been useful. One of the other players (who is also a 4-star GM) asked me why I didn't have a rope on my character. I told him that she didn't have the Strength to carry everything, so I chose not to buy a rope for her.
He then basically called me a chump for tracking encumbrance. He said that no GM ever tracks encumbrance. Is this true, that no one else tracks encumbrance? And isn't it the players' responsibility to track that?
When I am running a game, I certainly don't ask my players what the weight of their gear is; I expect them to worry about that. But I also track the encumbrance of all of my characters, including the Str 5 halfling and the Str 22 dwarf.
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There's nothing I've seen in the Guide or FAQ that states the encumbrance rules don't apply in PFS. (Aside from the "you're assumed to be able to get your loot" part and the "you can leave as much crap at home as you need to" part.)
As a GM, the only time I've asked to see how much gear the PCs were carrying is when I ran Night March of Kalkamedes (and last time I ran it, half the table didn't know and had to calculate it from scratch). As a player, I've only been asked for that information once or twice. Even so, when I designed my Excel character sheet, I made sure it would track gear weight (and value, for that matter) so that I could tell you exactly how much I was carrying (and my current wealth) in seconds.
So yeah, you ARE supposed to be tracking encumbrance, even though it'll rarely come up.
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As GM, I often spot-check if there is a weight-related event in the scenario, or if someone just has a ridiculously-long equipment list and a low Str. For PbP I always check (because I have the time, and I use HeroLab to track things anyway), and I often find that several party members are in medium or heavy encumbrance without realizing it. Also had the occasional PC who was over heavy load. I agree, though, we shouldn't track coin weight (although that is never specified in the Guide). I do enforce encumbrance on loot if it is a large amount of loot, though (some of the modules and APs have dragon-style hordes, and the logistics of getting them out are part of the task. (Although I don't waste *too* much time on it.
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I track my encumbrance and I expect players to. However I am unlikely to check unless it is something weird like a gnome sorcerer carting around a whole mass of gear.
Ditto.
I have a 5 Strength Gnome. I track its encumbrance religiously. But not everyone likes that level of record keeping. My advise is that if you don't like that level of record keeping, don't play characters that would require it.
Also, there is a reason why a Handy Haversack is usually one of my first 2,000gp expenditures for almost every character.
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I build characters with encumbrance in mind. My ranged characters usually have at least a 12 Strength so they can carry enough ammo and still wear armor.
As a GM, I expect players to not cheat. Unless a scenario calls for it, I won't nanny players about it.
@Jiggy: I modified my ITS to have a box on every line for weight. Since everyone's required to have one anyways, perhaps doing the same will solve your problem.
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Few of my characters require more than 2 pieces of paper at the table. Maybe an index card, too. And I play some complex characters.
What do you require an Excel Spreadsheet for?
And, seems to me, you could still have what you require on paper, for handing to the GM, and still keep your spreadsheets anyways. Nobody asked you to stop using them.
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Few of my characters require more than 2 pieces of paper at the table. Maybe an index card, too. And I play some complex characters.
What do you require an Excel Spreadsheet for?
And, seems to me, you could still have what you require on paper, for handing to the GM, and still keep your spreadsheets anyways. Nobody asked you to stop using them.
I have spaces for bonuses of various types (morale, deflection, competence, whatever) that, when filled in, get automatically calculated into the appropriate attacks/saves/AC/whatever. I can use these same boxes for debuffs as well.
I have spaces for ability damage and ability drain that will get auto-calculated.
And leveling is a breeze. I update the number of levels I have in a given class (like overwriting "3" with "4" next to "bloodrager") and all my formulaic numbers (like BAB, base saves, total skill ranks) get automatically updated and every single stat that depends on them goes up automatically along with it. So to use BAB as an example, I don't have to go erase and rewrite my CMB (and the BAB box in its calculation line), my CMD (and the BAB box in its calculation line), my various attack bonuses, Power Attack scaling, and so forth. Instead of all that, it's part of the same single keystroke that also updates my HP, saves, and total number of skill ranks. (I still have to allocate my skill ranks, but I have a calculated total to check against at any time).
And yes, I can still use my Excel sheet. But now I have to either print off a copy (and it's not even printer-friendly in the first place) every single time anything changes, which is basically every session (and also requires a trip to the library); or else I have to do a handwritten sheet, which negates the entire value of the automatic leveling calcs I just described.
Yes, I can still "use" the electronic version, it just no longer accomplishes anything to do so.
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I thank you for the lengthy reply, but I only asked in the context of this thread.
Why do you need an Excel Spreadsheet for purposes of inventory tracking, when everyone is required to have an Inventory Tracking Sheet anyways?
For the same reason anyone would use an Excel Spreadsheet. So it will do the calculations for you.
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Checking it for every character at the table would get absurd pretty quickly.
I only really pay attention to it on my 5 str kitsune. (With muscle of the society of course). The fact that clothing isn't free and that magic headbands and belts have weight means its a good thing they have fur.
Most of my casters either aren't carrying gear at all, or just cast and haul on themselves. 1000 gp for the pearl of power to get the spell back is a bargain to have +8 to the only use they'll ever get out of the stat.
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I thank you for the lengthy reply, but I only asked in the context of this thread.
Why do you need an Excel Spreadsheet for purposes of inventory tracking, when everyone is required to have an Inventory Tracking Sheet anyways?
The ITS does a good job of recording your purchase history, but isn't as helpful for (quickly) seeing what you have right now. So I keep a paper ITS for transactions, and have a current inventory (which includes weight, magic item slots, and anything else gear-related that the ITS doesn't track) that's part of my Excel sheet. I designed the whole thing (inventory and otherwise) to be as thorough, detailed and usable as possible.
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The ITS does a good job of recording your purchase history, but isn't as helpful for (quickly) seeing what you have right now.Eyup. And thats the source of peoples annoyance with it.
I've found the addition of one, handwritten line at the bottom to be incredibly useful:
"___ pounds carried as of Chronicle #X"
Solves all of my encumbrance issues, and it's updated every scenario.
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The ITS does a good job of recording your purchase history, but isn't as helpful for (quickly) seeing what you have right now.Eyup. And thats the source of peoples annoyance with it.I've found the addition of one, handwritten line at the bottom to be incredibly useful:
"___ pounds carried as of Chronicle #X"
Solves all of my encumbrance issues, and it's updated every scenario.
That's still something I have to erase and rewrite constantly, the avoidance of which was the whole point of putting in the work upfront to invent my electronic sheet(s).
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That's two more numbers per scenario.
Fixed that for ya.
Yeah, there's stuff I already have to write by hand. That's exactly why I tried to convert to automation anything that I could. The weight may just be one more number per scenario. And my BAB is just a couple more numbers per level. And so is my HP. And my AC. And my CMB. And my CMD. And this, and that, and the other. There are a LOT of things that are each "just one more number".
Floods are made of raindrops.
My umbrella got yanked away, and now you're pointing at one droplet in the downpour and comparing it on its own to the three or four drops that were already hitting my elbow when I still had my umbrella, and marveling at my complaint of getting wet.
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Ok. I suppose I can sympathize.
When the ITS was enforced at the start of Season 5, I seriously considered quitting PFS. I already had a system for tracking things, and I wrote everything on my Chronicle Sheets.
From my vantage point, the ITS was *another* sheet of paper, and a redundant one at that.
Plus, I had something like 12 characters at the time. I didn't look forward to updating every one with a redundant, unnecessary, extra piece of paper.
In fact, of those two pieces of paper I stated earlier up thread, one is my ITS.
People kept saying that old characters were grandfathered in, and didn't need their purchases up to that point transferred over to an ITS, but as you're probably aware that's just not an option for OCD people.
About 3 months into Season 5, I finally just sat down for a weekend and updated every character. I created a new character record sheet with no equipment section, and copied over every character by hand.
Since then, using the ITS has become second nature to me. It's become a part of how my play experience operates.
Having to write two more numbers may seem daunting. It may make you second guess your involvement in PFS, but I can probably assure you that after you do it, you'll be fine with it.
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Having to write two more numbers may seem daunting. It may make you second guess your involvement in PFS, but I can probably assure you that after you do it, you'll be fine with it.
If those were the only two numbers I now have to go back to writing by hand, I would probably agree with you. If the new rule was "you have to keep a current weight tally on your ITS" instead of "you have to have your entire character sheet in paper form", then I'd only be writing two more numbers, and probably wouldn't bat an eye.
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Having to write two more numbers may seem daunting. It may make you second guess your involvement in PFS, but I can probably assure you that after you do it, you'll be fine with it.
Or you could just let Jiggy take care of his character's record keeping the way he wants to.
I like you Nefreet. I really do. But hasn't your insistence that everyone keep their character records your way already caused enough trouble on these forums?
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Having to write two more numbers may seem daunting. It may make you second guess your involvement in PFS, but I can probably assure you that after you do it, you'll be fine with it.If those were the only two numbers I now have to go back to writing by hand, I would probably agree with you. If the new rule was "you have to keep a current weight tally on your ITS" instead of "you have to have your entire character sheet in paper form", then I'd only be writing two more numbers, and probably wouldn't bat an eye.
Well, to be fair, you probably only need the same two pieces of paper that anyone is required to have: your CRS and your ITS.
Heck, they can even be written out on graph paper.
Anything beyond that is your own creation. No GM needs to see your spreadsheets. That's for your own personal use.
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I like you Nefreet. I really do. But hasn't your insistence that everyone keep their character records your way already caused enough trouble on these forums?
I'd like to point out I wasn't the one asking for that ruling.
I'm not even in favor of it.
I didn't even participate in the thread that resulted in that ruling.
Other ppl, dating back two years or more, were the ones asking for "no tech".
My opposition was purely to using the HeroLab program at the table.
And, for the fifth time now, I have no problem with ppl using a HeroLab character sheet (or whatever tracking sheet they'd like to use).
I realize this got blown up on the forums (and even on Facebook), and a lot of ppl have been scapegoating me for it, but this ruling wasn't my doing.
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Well, to be fair, you probably only need the same two pieces of paper that anyone is required to have: your CRS and your ITS.
Heck, they can even be written out on graph paper.
Anything beyond that is your own creation. No GM needs to see your spreadsheets. That's for your own personal use.
If you meant chronicles, then your statement is incorrect because those are no longer the only pieces of paper required: I now have to have a paper character sheet.
If you mean character sheet, then your statement is incorrect because previously I was not required to have that piece of paper. My characters (the actual characters, not the ITS or chronicles) were 100% paperless. My spreadsheets are not my tools for figuring numbers to write on my "real" character sheets, they ARE my character sheets.
I would sit down to a game, and have ZERO pieces of paper in front of me. (Chronicles and ITS would be in my bag on the floor.)
When a GM asked to see something on my character sheet, I would show them my tablet.
But now that's not a possibility. I can still sit at the table with all physical paper being in my bag, but whenever I buy something or level up or otherwise make an update to my character, I have to either make a trip to the library that I didn't have to make before, or I have to erase and rewrite way more than two numbers that I didn't have to erase and rewrite before.
I don't understand why you think so little has changed.
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I like you Nefreet. I really do. But hasn't your insistence that everyone keep their character records your way already caused enough trouble on these forums?I'd like to point out I wasn't the one asking for that ruling.
I'm not even in favor of it.
I didn't even participate in the thread that resulted in that ruling.
Other ppl, dating back two years or more, were the ones asking for "no tech".
My opposition was purely to using the HeroLab program at the table.
And, for the fifth time now, I have no problem with ppl using a HeroLab character sheet (or whatever tracking sheet they'd like to use).
I realize this got blown up on the forums (and even on Facebook), and a lot of ppl have been scapegoating me for it, but this ruling wasn't my doing.
I was one of the people that asked Mike for a ruling. While I didn't like doing it, I felt it was necessary because a prominent, well-respected, and usually very reasonable 4 star GM on these forums made a very public and very adamant stance regarding an electronic tool I was very likely to use when attending GenCon this year. And that is the only reason. I don't know what else to say on the matter.
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Yes, I track encumbrance. If you want to stay at light encumbrance, you need to.
Str 10 light load is only 33 lbs. Armor will easily take 1/3 to 1/2 of that. A chain shirt is 25 lbs. Weapons start at 1 lbs. each, many are closer to 6-8 lbs. Bedroll is 5 lbs.
Really, it is easy to go to medium encumbrance at normal strength. Going there affects your movement speed and reduces the max dex bonus on armor. This can make a big difference on some characters.
Mages have a lot easier since they don't have armor, but even there you can get into problems.
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Jiggy stop arguing
mike already said that this is a step to make games faster
just think
while using paper again you will have more time to check off boxes on that new extra sheet of paper while full-clearing dungeons for no reason other than to check off boxes
you can use the extra time to take up a new hobby such as writing on graph paper or churning butter for GMs to coat their hands with while they handle player's tablet devices
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Jiggy...i find there really isn't that much that changes during a scenario that having it on the computer, rather then just printed out, would save me in time/effort. ... For instance for weapon to hit or damage simply print out your most used options...like longsword without power attack and with. And only have to track any temporary changes such as someone casting a buff.
You make it sound like buffs are just an occasional +1 or something. The two characters that I've played to retirement, by the ends of their careers, would change their attack, damage, and/or AC bonuses about 1-4 times per combat (not counting Power Attack), all on their own before figuring out buffs from tablemates. I've seen players of archers or gunslingers have to dedicate entire half-sheets to lists of different attack/damage bonuses for different sets of circumstances.
Being able to just drop in the number when I receive the buff, and always look at the same cell to see a correct attack bonus when it's actually my turn, saves a ton of time. (But as I said, this is the one part I can still do.)
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Jiggy, Nefreet, Trollbill, I appreciate all of your opinions regarding electronic sheets. I really do.
Please take it to a different thread.
No need to shut down my thread on a completely separate topic.
Thanks.
Yeah, sorry, I started that. My bad.