|
A little preface:
I played a lot of Living Greyhawk - for those of you not familiar, it was in some ways a precursor to Pathfinder Society using the Greyhawk setting with 3.5 rules. To make a long story slightly less long, the "region" I played in was heavily focused on a militarized society with a focus on cavalry. Because of this I used to see tons of characters with the mounted combat feats. I don't really see it that much in PFS
How often do you see mounted characters at a PFS table? What is your experience with them in combat in your average game?
|
I don't see them often because of the size restrictions, but when I do it is the "Small druid on a lion" pounce-kitty variant. In PFS, because you never know what you are getting in to, having a pet can be a liability. Sometimes your pet isn't allowed, or can't get there, or won't go there, and then you lose a significant part of your combat power.
|
My experience is that mounted characters are not common. As a 4 star GM, you can imagine all of those 5 foot corridors being troublesome for a large mount. Don't forget about the social situations where you likely stable your mount. Oh, and the terrain that might make it impractical or impossible to ride or bring with. Lastly, the trick rules that govern animal companions require another layer of complications and checks at the table.
All that said, my next PFS character is likely to be a hunter with a dog animal companion.
Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis
|
I've seen one medium sized character with a mount.
Part of the problem is that a lot of the scenarios don't have anything to do during the travel time, so the mount isn't an advantage. You would have to try and search out scenarios that allow you to use your mount.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have been in pfs for over a year now and do not think I have ever seen even a single mounted character. To be honest, everybody tends to just play the same handful of classes and often plays them the same way. But not one mount, that's for sure. I actually intend to make a mounted hunter as my next character for pfs.
Heck, I may even make him a medium race just to prove a point.
I have made a character being pulled by a Light Chariot. It has been left outside the few times I have gotten to run it. It will not fit in swearers or scale cliff sides. So I would have to say it has not worked out well but I will continue to try.
|
I've seen three small cavaliers through my games. 2 halflings and a gnome. All had medium mounts (wolf, boar, giant snapping turtle).
Also, one gnome Paladin who made it a goal to stay mounted as much as possible. To this day, she's the only character I can think of with a Large mount (a horse).
Keep in mind that the "loss of power" isn't as great as one might think. You're only doing mounted charges on the first round of combat anyway. Then you're full-attacking like every other martial charcter.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere
|
I've seen someone play a human cavalier/fighter to level 13. When they didn't get their charges, they were a decent enough fighter. When they got their charges, they essentially let the party skip entire encounters with their damage output. Spirited Charge be crazy.
Then again, that's pretty much the only mounted character I think I've seen, other than one halfling druid who rides her pygmy hippo everywhere.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My Halfling Cavalier is one of the few I've seen, but then again, my playgroup isn't that large. I know of one other Halfling Cavalier (I think, I've seen him play, but never played with him), and a Gnome Paladin that took a wolf for a mount for mobility reasons.
I specifically took a Halfling because of the Medium-sized mount. Didn't want to get stuck in a 5-foot-wide corridor.
I must say, it took me a while to get my mobility to where I wanted (took Wheeling Charge at level 7, bah), but from then on, my damage output is great. I disagree with Jayson, I keep out of melee range and manage to position myself right for precise hit-and-run strikes. Sure, it's a shame I don't get my iteratives, but 3d6+12 (more if I challenge) is more than enough for most enemies, considering others are already weakening them. And as stated, if I don't kill them outright, I can just run away without any trouble.
Also, I took Monstrous Mount as my level 5-feat, just so I could add a little extra to my class. You don't meet very many characters who can say "yeah, I ride a Worg." :)
|
I've seen three mounted summoners; one was a halfling, one was a gnome, and the other was a tiefling. I've seen a 10-11ish level human cavalier on a tiger, too.
From what I've seen, as long as you dont build your character entirely around mounted charges, you will be fine. Narrow Frame makes it easier, too.
|
I'd say they're rare, which makes each one stand out at the table a bit more.
I remember the first mounted character I ever encountered in PFS, actually. It was during the first Halls of Dwarven Lore, at PacifiCon. A Halfling Cavalier on a Wolf, if I'm not mistaken.
When he used Wheeling Charge from around a corner, it got my attention. When he charged through allies, I wanted to know more.
Out of 23 characters I only have 1 that is mounted (and 1 being planned). The one I have is a Dwarf Oread Cavalier/Dragoon who's riding a combat-trained Bison until level 7, when he can ride his Owlbear. He'll be focused on charging.
The one I have planned is a Halfling Sohei with Animal Ally who will be focused on using Mounted Skirmisher to "Flurry of Polearms". He'll probably ride a Dog, since I have the fig for that. Or I'll custom build a fig and ride a Cheetah.
Rare, but pretty deadly when conditions are right.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
I've got an Aasimar Cavalier 1/Nature Oracle 8, who's going into Mammoth Rider at level 10. Right now she rides an Axe Beak, but she'll be trading up to a Megaloceros next level. Of course, I'll always keep another 10-11 character ready to go, so I don't waste her last 12 play opportunities on scenarios where I can't take her mount.
I've seen one other medium Axe Beak rider locally (but not for months, now that I think about it), and I've played with a couple of small mounted characters, but not more than once or twice.
EDIT: I should point out that the only mounted combat feat I've invested in is... Mounted Combat. And I still haven't decided if I'm retraining that or Furious Focus to get my Angel Wings at level 10.
|
|
I have seen several mounted character in our area, both of the medium and small riders. I also have both a medium cavalier with a large mount (though she has only 2 mount feats: Horse Master and Monstrous mount) that doesn't always fit places, and more recently I have started a halfling cavalier on a medium mount that is a bit more focused on the mount. One of the other players in my area started a mounted wayang summoner the same time I started my halfling.
|
|
Recently I made a Human Hunter riding atop a Roc with Undersized Mount and wielding a Large Sized Lance. Even by level 3 it was one of the most overpowered characters anyone there had seen. He did 4d6+18 on a normal charge (at lvl 3), was immune to attacks of opportunity due to Escape Plan, among other things. Since then he has been unofficially banned at those tables, and rightly so, I felt bad playing him.
But since then there has been a surge of mounted players at my games, I like to think I had a hand in that Lol.
|
Cavaliers, in general, are under-loved in society play. I have a halfling cavalier regularly (she's waiting to finish up Thornkeep right now, but I can't wait to dust her off) and there's also a Cavalier/Order of the Dragon character in our lodge that's awesome with his griffon mount. I'd like to see more around, and more mounts in general, though the likelihood of having to leave your mount behind makes it a good idea to invest in either hosteling armor or scrolls of Carry Companion.
|
|
Cavaliers, in general, are under-loved in society play. I have a halfling cavalier regularly (she's waiting to finish up Thornkeep right now, but I can't wait to dust her off) and there's also a Cavalier/Order of the Dragon character in our lodge that's awesome with his griffon mount. I'd like to see more around, and more mounts in general, though the likelihood of having to leave your mount behind makes it a good idea to invest in either hosteling armor or scrolls of Carry Companion.
Doesn't the paladin summon mount ability also work? As currently written, it doesn't say it needs to be on a specific plane, so you get where you need to go and then if you need your mount just spend a round bringing it to your side from wherever it is.
Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin's level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin.
|
|
Yep, that one works as well! Most of the issues I've ever run into with mounts have dealt with a specific bottleneck or barrier. That gets it past it. Those other options are still decent for when you may need to have your mount move a couple times (it's a level 2 scroll, so it's cheap for a utility scroll and most parties will have someone that doesn't need to UMD it) but that ability is so awesome.
|
|
I see them crop up occasionally. Small character on a medium mount does a fair amount of damage. 1 off the strength to damage doesn't matter all that much when you get triple your damage on most hits.And if you go Wayang you don't even have that -1. Though I'm a bigger fan of Human riders myself.
The horse is just too big. Trying to get a charge lane without hitting a wall, corner, pathfinder, monster you don't need to be hitting, is almost impossible unless you take dragonstyle on the mount.
|
|
The horse is just too big. Trying to get a charge lane without hitting a wall, corner, pathfinder, monster you don't need to be hitting, is almost impossible unless you take dragonstyle on the mount.I see them crop up occasionally. Small character on a medium mount does a fair amount of damage. 1 off the strength to damage doesn't matter all that much when you get triple your damage on most hits.And if you go Wayang you don't even have that -1. Though I'm a bigger fan of Human riders myself.
Screw that noise. I just use the extra feat from Human to get Undersized Mount. Problem solved.
|
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
|
Pinacle Phoaltis Pnuabe, Character number 19, is a grippli Cavalier with a wolf (for now) that moves at 60 feet.
That is 120 feet that he can charge....
Oh, and he has 17 HP at first level.
as for what I have seen. There is some small summoners out there that use their edelon as a mount. (Things get weird with this combo)
|
Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville
|
I have a halfling paladin with the shining knight archetype and an axe beak mount. While I've played a couple of scenarios where the mount was a complete non-factor, the duo manhandled a couple of others. Also . . .
I'm surprised we don't see more mounted Summoners, actually.
-j
|
|
I'm currently playing a human Luring Cavalier of the Order of the Sword (archer subtype). I wanted to avoid the difficulty other posters mentioned of needing charge lanes and dealing with narrow corridors. I'm taking Monstrous Mount (Griffon) at lvl 5, and at lvl 7 Mount Mastery lets him fly with a rider. I'm very excited to simply hang out 30 feet above the BBEG and fill him full of arrows.
|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
|
Leaving your mount behind sucks, but one time...
|
|
One build I've been tempted by - but never done due to potential table variation - is a halfling fighter based around mounted combat. Not a cavalier - a fighter. His mount? My buddy's dwarf barbarian!
It would negate all of the disadvantages of mounted combat! The dwarf barbarian can go anywhere. Since a dwarf - my increased height wouldn't be an issue. And the mount would be even better than a cavalier's! The dwarf would get boosted AC from mounted combat etc. (It'd be hilarious to boost his movement speed by spurring him.) All for a measly -4 to ride checks for an unusual mount.
The only issue is I'm not sure what initiative to go at. With a normal mount - they go at your initiative. But since it'd be another player... *shrug* - hence never playing it.
Though of note - I am playing a Samurai in Legacy of Fire right now. It's not PFS - but we're gonna get PFS credit for it. But I didn't take all the combat feats. Samurai is basically a Cavalier who has a mount - but doesn't do that much with them.
|
|
I have two mounted characters:
1. A gnome paladin. His riding dog fits in most places and helps him overcome the disadvantages of being painfully slow, and utterly incompetent at acrobatics checks to avoid slipping and falling.
2. A mounted fury barbarian. About half the time I have to leave the horse behind, but I've tried to make sure that that character has a few cool things she can do while not mounted, so she is not completely worthless every time the party has to go down a 5 foot corridor.
|
|
There are enough little tricks out there to make mounted combat fairly viable. Hosteling armor negates almost all logistical problems, and scrolls of Carry Companion do the trick until you can afford it.
Wheeling Charge from Cities of Golarion goes a huge way towards making mounted charges plausible in most PFS encounters by allowing charges to pass through allies AND to not be saddled with straight charge lanes. It's supposed to be limited to characters from Lastwall, but the prerequisite "Lastwall affinity" is apparently completely undefined and so is unenforceable for PFS. If you have the book (and at least an excuse of "having trained in Lastwall for like a month or so" in your backstory) you're free to use the feat.
I have three mounted combat PFS characters. My Half Orc cavalier made it through 11 levels of a PFS career on a large sized horse just fine. (he never even took wheeling charge, either) My paladin is playing with the griffon flying mount rules from Inner Sea Combat. I've started a new Cavalier to boot after retiring my first one, she's a human with another horse mount.
I'm a firm believer that you don't need to be small sized on medium sized mounts to be a credible mounted combatant in PFS.
|
|
I don't think I've had to point that out to anyone yet, so I am unsure how that will go if it comes up. Though it is quite clear the feat just removes the -4 attack and AC from squeezing not the reduced movement.
Then again my medium cavalier isn't really reliant on mounted charge attacks (she doesn't even have Mounted Combat, much less Spirited Charge), so Narrow Frame helps tremendously. The movement penalty isn't as bad either as most mounts have fairly high speeds.
|
|
I had originally started this thread because my significant other and I played our "Pint-sized mounted pair of doom" characters at a con this past week. Mine is a halfling shining knight archetype paladin 10 on a dog. Hers is a gnome druid 9/fighter 1 on a medium tiger. We both have mounted combat, spirited charge, ride-by attack, and wheeling charge.
They are the only mounted characters - medium or small - that either of us have ever seen in PFS. We even did well in a narrow dungeon thanks to my character having a high UMD and a wand of spider climb and her taking feather step every day.
The only thing that bothered me was the GM having every single bad guy attack us and not the mounts (thus negating one of the cool parts of mounted combat); he said, "he's smart enough to know not to attack the mount."
I was pondering asking if it was the GM smart enough or the NPC smart enough, but we were so effective that I didn't worry about it.
We were generally doing ~50 points of damage per hit, so not much lived when we both got a charge past it.
|
|
The only thing that bothered me was the GM having every single bad guy attack us and not the mounts (thus negating one of the cool parts of mounted combat); he said, "he's smart enough to know not to attack the mount."
The cavalier I played to 12th level never had mounted combat, either. I figured he was "practical" enough to consider the horse as a bank of extra hit points that could soak damage he wouldn't have to.
With that attitude, his horse STILL only ever got attacked twice in 11 levels. That's a bunch of different encounter types and a bunch of different GMs. (yes, one of those times was by goblins) Your GM wasn't doing anything you won't see 99% of the time, or so.
Mounted Combat is, in practice, a waste of a feat. It's only value is in that it is a chain prerequisite. Skill Focus: Ride actually gets you more use, but even that's largely a waste since Cavaliers get enough skill points to autosucceed the ride check to stay in the saddle after being hit pretty quickly.
|
|
The only thing that bothered me was the GM having every single bad guy attack us and not the mounts (thus negating one of the cool parts of mounted combat); he said, "he's smart enough to know not to attack the mount."
If the enemy isn't intelligent, most of our GMs roll randomly to see who they go after first. If they are intelligent, it depends on the threat level of the mount. Most enemies find tigers more threatening than horses, after all.
Also, in our group we have a gnome cavalier who rides a triceratops (PFS legal, if a little...over-the-top...), and a wyveren cavalier (non-PFS) who rides a riding lizard, and is planning to take a dragon mount when we get high enough level.