No, seriously, big time spoilers. If the title didn't ward you off then I'm not responsible for you being spoiled!
So now we know the fate of Androffa, something that I've suspected for a while ever since JJ hinted Androffa was a remarkably different planet than it was 9,000 years ago.
And now it leaves me wondering about a lot of stuff. Do the people of Androffa even know about their past at all? Are there still technological ruins like there are in Numeria? Do androids still exist there, or are the dwindling race on Golarion the last of their kind?
Some musings: I still really like the idea of an Androffan fleet visiting Golarion, so in my head canon things are a bit different. But if my players ever expressed interest in visiting the world I might scrap that idea and just have them visit it as it is canonically. Although I have absolutely no idea how they'd get there given that it's in another galaxy, and the party has no spellcasters that could cast, say, interplanetary teleport.
Not all of us have gotten the final book yet, so please don't spoil it too much!
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Not all of us have gotten the final book yet, so please don't spoil it too much!
Title has spoilers, you asked for it when you opened the topic.
As for travel, interplanetary teleport still requires knowledge of destination, I'm not sure "Androffa" counts as that's wisps of information as opposed to the "third planet from the sun" which as the caster who knows what the sun is in respect to himself (home system star) which is the example given in the spell description.
A more practical thing is to utilize the divinity drive and pimping out that shuttle, perhaps with the aid of the subjected technic league members who may/may not be under Zernebeth's command. If she's in control, you can bet your bottom dollar she'd expend the resources to aid in this epic effort. After months of retrofitting, and a few weeks of programming coordinates from data gathered on Divinity itself. Using the divinity drive they can wormhole there into Androffa orbit in a split second once in space.
I also suppose that given enough research on Divinity's databanks, they could use that to use interplanetary teleport, but it should also involve a month or so of research to calculate the exact location of where Androffa would be given galaxy drift, spinning around the galactic core and such forth. I'd probably require a high engineering check to to understand what these star-charts and coordinates mean.
The star charts would be knowledge geography in my opinion.
Personally, I would invent an Astrogation feat or skill for interstellar navigation. Knowing what's where on the surface of one planet doesn't cut it in the vastness of space, IMHO.
Creative Director
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No, seriously, big time spoilers. If the title didn't ward you off then I'm not responsible for you being spoiled!
So now we know the fate of Androffa, something that I've suspected for a while ever since JJ hinted Androffa was a remarkably different planet than it was 9,000 years ago.
And now it leaves me wondering about a lot of stuff. Do the people of Androffa even know about their past at all? Are there still technological ruins like there are in Numeria? Do androids still exist there, or are the dwindling race on Golarion the last of their kind?
Some musings: I still really like the idea of an Androffan fleet visiting Golarion, so in my head canon things are a bit different. But if my players ever expressed interest in visiting the world I might scrap that idea and just have them visit it as it is canonically. Although I have absolutely no idea how they'd get there given that it's in another galaxy, and the party has no spellcasters that could cast, say, interplanetary teleport.
For the most part, the people of Droffa (which is what the planet is currently called, and which is my homebrew setting) do not know about their ancient history. The discovery that the ancient past was highly technological and that the gods lashed out and all that was information that the players learned at the end of the second full-length campaign I ran set in the world during college.
So those PCs know about the ancient past, but they chose not to spread that lore around. Not many folks on Droffa know about it at all as a result. Pretty much no one.
Androids exist on Droffa, but only just barely, and they're currently all hidden away or dormant or lost; they're not a part of society.
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For the most part, the people of Droffa (which is what the planet is currently called, and which is my homebrew setting) do not know about their ancient history. The discovery that the ancient past was highly technological and that the gods lashed out and all that was information that the players learned at the end of the second full-length campaign I ran set in the world during college.
Proposition: A proper merging of Technology and Magic might be the winning combination if the "Dominion of the Black" were to invade Golarion.
I figured that Androffa would end up being one of James Jacobs pet campaign settings. Although I was guessing it would be the setting of his post apocalyptic game.
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I figured that Androffa would end up being one of James Jacobs pet campaign settings. Although I was guessing it would be the setting of his post apocalyptic game.
Nope. Androffa/Droffa is my homebrew setting for D&D, and now for Pathfinder.
My post-apocalyptic game is set on Earth.
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James, the issue mentions a "series of chain reactions" that lead to the wrath of the gods being brought down upon Androffa. I understand that (divine?) magic was entirely absent on Androffa and was shoe horned in by the Shoal deities, but could you elaborate on the series of chain reactions that resulted from it?
This may be a sidetrack from Pathfinder, but I'm a huge fan of world lore and the like. Is there any possibility on you lifting the veil on Androffa and revealing a bit more about the world? Like maps, nations, major characters and deities (beyond what has already made it into Golarion).
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James, the issue mentions a "series of chain reactions" that lead to the wrath of the gods being brought down upon Androffa. I understand that (divine?) magic was entirely absent on Androffa and was shoe horned in by the Shoal deities, but could you elaborate on the series of chain reactions that resulted from it?
This may be a sidetrack from Pathfinder, but I'm a huge fan of world lore and the like. Is there any possibility on you lifting the veil on Androffa and revealing a bit more about the world? Like maps, nations, major characters and deities (beyond what has already made it into Golarion).
I'll have to think about it regarding "lifting the veil" on Droffa. Which includes revealing too much about the "chain reactions" that caused the apocalypse. AKA: I'm not really ready to set loose 100% of my campaign setting loose in the public wilds yet.
My post-apocalyptic game is set on Earth
Mr. Jacobs is there any chance of is this setting seeing publication in some form?
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My post-apocalyptic game is set on EarthMr. Jacobs is there any chance of is this setting seeing publication in some form?
There's absolutely a chance... but my current desire to maintain complete control and ownership over the game combined with my busy schedule working at Paizo means that the chance of it happening soon are slim. I would love, someday, to release the game though!
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James, the issue mentions a "series of chain reactions" that lead to the wrath of the gods being brought down upon Androffa. I understand that (divine?) magic was entirely absent on Androffa and was shoe horned in by the Shoal deities, but could you elaborate on the series of chain reactions that resulted from it?
This may be a sidetrack from Pathfinder, but I'm a huge fan of world lore and the like. Is there any possibility on you lifting the veil on Androffa and revealing a bit more about the world? Like maps, nations, major characters and deities (beyond what has already made it into Golarion).
Ok; thought a little bit more about it. Thing is, I've been building Droffa for about 20 years, so there's a LOT of information about it, and it's not all 100% internally consistent since I tended to revise as needed for a campaign each time an edition change happened; there was never time to revise EVERYTHING I wrote for one edition since I always wanted to build new stuff, so if I pull the curtain back all the way, that's a LOT of work to go through and make sure I like where everything is at. Furthermore, a lot of that content is now Golarion canon, and I'd have to make the decision on whether or not I want to keep it or change it.
Spoilered to hide a wall of text...
More or less. I've got a 48,000 word document (that equates to about 54 pages of solid text in print) on Baria/Droffa's history on my computer, of which the first several pages detail all of this before going on to detail the introduction of the new races, the Impyrium (the rise of arcane magic back into the world, and the inspiration for Thassilon), the return of divine magic in a more holistic and less destructive way, a period of time where the world was ruled by evil cults and demons/devils/etc. all under the command of Obox-ob, the escape of the world from Obox-ob's control into the modern age, and the results of 3 full-length campaigns and dozens of shorter mini-campaigns over the course of the last 20 years that added more history to the world.
EDIT: A significant source of inspiration for this whole thing came from F. Paul Wilson's excellent novel "The Touch," and "Nightworld" novels.
@James Jacobs
How many editions did your setting go through?
WOW!
That's a lot of changes.
You know what's been put in perspective now?
Androids are a dying race. Let's be honest here, in another 9,000 years I doubt there's going to be any androids left on Golarion. The foundries will stop working, and the remaining androids will eventually have their bodies destroyed some way or another. They can't get lucky forever and hope their body will be perfectly preserved when they die. And now we know that on Androffa there's little to none of them, and the extremely few that are around are the last of their kind on that distant world as well.
Yet, in 9,000 years, humanity will still be around, being on three different planets. As will elves, dwarves, aasimars, tieflings. But androids? They're a doomed species.
Man, what a depressing thought. :(
Well that is a thing. Yes Tech can evolve that far but will it? I suspect with the rise of technology that gods will fade since you can hardly use the scientific method on Gorum and even worlds where there are gods of forging/building it is still pretty much based on forging/carpentry.(Gond for example in the Forgotten realms isn't the god of inventing.)
I suspect that unless the PF deities are willing to adapt and even shift awya, true advancement in technology will remain stunted.
Well that is a thing. Yes Tech can evolve that far but will it? I suspect with the rise of technology that gods will fade since you can hardly use the scientific method on Gorum and even worlds where there are gods of forging/building it is still pretty much based on forging/carpentry.(Gond for example in the Forgotten realms isn't the god of inventing.)
I suspect that unless the PF deities are willing to adapt and even shift awya, true advancement in technology will remain stunted.
I'd imagine that maybe, a few androids who become powerful mages could try to find a magical solution to their race's predicament. Then again, I think creating life with actual souls in them is within the realm of deities.
Maybe an android can get lucky and try touching the Starstone...?
Well that is a thing. Yes Tech can evolve that far but will it? I suspect with the rise of technology that gods will fade since you can hardly use the scientific method on Gorum and even worlds where there are gods of forging/building it is still pretty much based on forging/carpentry.(Gond for example in the Forgotten realms isn't the god of inventing.)
I suspect that unless the PF deities are willing to adapt and even shift awya, true advancement in technology will remain stunted.
Uh... I have to say that technological advancement and demonstrable divine power are not mutually exclusive. They can be, certainly, and with Androffa's monomaniacal obsession with SCIENCE!1!one!1! certainly caused their downfall due to the divine, but there is definitely room for both things.
(Also, Gond isn't the god of invention, but Oghma is.) :D
EDIT: a comparison can be drawn between arcane and divine magic and technology and divine magic... and technology and arcane magic, for that matter (as well as psionics, etc., etc.).
While on the surface it appears mutually incompatible, in truth, it fundamentally is not. If nothing else, the mystic theurge shows us that as hardline proof, but then, too, there are gods of magic, learning, knowledge, and so on. It is these very divine entities that would either push toward or permit the advancement of scientific progress. Point in fact, true science in worlds where divine and arcane (and any other) magic exists would, given proof of them, be willing to study them on their own terms, and come to a general and comprehensive acceptance thereof.
Fundamental differences between technology and arcane magic exist (general repeatable experiments anyone with the stuff can do v. personal power), but you can use arcane magic to turn a tech item into a tech item that is also a magic item. (Incidentally, I really want a sentient item A.I. - so much interesting potential.)
Divine magic is similar. There is absolutely the chance that androids could become gods. A technologist may well ascend to divinity. It is entirely possible.
Whether or not it will happen is exceedingly variable, and likely the result of a specific campaign or setting. But they are definitively not mutually exclusive.
EDIT 2: Huh. Iron Gods spoiler. I... really should have seen the huge letters at the top of this thread, huh? Oh, crying babies - you so distractin'.
What I find interesting is that there were no other Androffan ships out there at the time that things came to a head on Droffa. Or even colonies. Then again, the same entities that took out Divinity might have tracked down the colonies and any remaining ships and infested them as well....
Edit: Also, considering the thread says "Spoilers" and the FIRST sentence of the FIRST post warns of spoilers? Anyone who comes into here should not expect everything hidden behind Spoiler tags. That's just being plain silly now.
Now this means that the aballonites nor Apostae aren't of Androffan origin.
I wonder if the Vercites have the tech to fix and maintain Android foundries. While my general feeling was that Androffa tech is still far ahead of Verces,the Vercites probably are still far enough along to back-engineer Androffan tech.
I wonder if the Vercites have the tech to fix and maintain Android foundries. While my general feeling was that Androffa tech is still far ahead of Verces,the Vercites probably are still far enough along to back-engineer Androffan tech.
they can't be that far behind Androffa, with a big f#@+ing space ship port and all:-p
I wonder if the Vercites have the tech to fix and maintain Android foundries. While my general feeling was that Androffa tech is still far ahead of Verces,the Vercites probably are still far enough along to back-engineer Androffan tech.they can't be that far behind Androffa, with a big f$&*ing space ship port and all:-p
Well since Vercites also have magic, they don't have to make all the same advancements in technology. :P And their ships aren't as sophisticated as Divinity, I believe. Sorry if I'm stepping on toes here, it's unintended :)
no toes stepped on:-p
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Oh my god.
You guys.
WE ARE ON ANDROFFA!
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well thats just smurfin' great
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What I would like to know is how did the Vercites create a kaiju and can they do it again?
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What I would like to know is how did the Vercites create a kaiju and can they do it again?
anything is possible with
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Edit: Also, considering the thread says "Spoilers" and the FIRST sentence of the FIRST post warns of spoilers? Anyone who comes into here should not expect everything hidden behind Spoiler tags. That's just being plain silly now.
Oh heck yeah. No, I'm aware now, and I'm definitely not complaining, if this is in response to me. Heh. I'm pretty sure I just saw "Androffa" and went "Ooh! What's that?" and clicked. I've had the tab open for a while now, and only recently finished reading, mostly while I had a crying baby in my arms. No complaints, mostly commenting on my realization. :)
SEMI-EDIT: actually, now I remember how I got here: I was looking for a post by Mr. James Jacobs, when I found something about the systems and checked it out instead of whatever it was I was searching for previously. Oh, ADD, how you get to me. :D
I'm here for the lore. It's so cool!
Unrelated: I wonder if the Androffans (or the 'Droffans, I guess?) actually made any Kaiju as well? Being a land of super-science, it seems rife for exactly that kind of thing.
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** spoiler omitted **
I'm here for the lore. It's so cool!
Unrelated: I wonder if the Androffans (or the 'Droffans, I guess?) actually made any Kaiju as well? Being a land of super-science, it seems rife for exactly that kind of thing.
They seem more like the types who would build Jaegers to fight kaiju.
What I would like to know is how did the Vercites create a kaiju and can they do it again?
I wasn't aware the Vercites created a kaiju, could you elaborate?
I wonder if the Vercites have the tech to fix and maintain Android foundries. While my general feeling was that Androffa tech is still far ahead of Verces,the Vercites probably are still far enough along to back-engineer Androffan tech.they can't be that far behind Androffa, with a big f%!$ing space ship port and all:-p
They don't have interstellar travel capabilities...I believe it's been stated that Vercites haven't really explored or had much contact with worlds farther out than Eox or closer in than Akiton.
I assume Androffa is more advanced, if only because descriptions of their ship technology suggests they are more sophisticated than Verces.
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The Vercites created Agmazar the Star Titan as a weapon against the Eoxians.
Now this means that the aballonites nor Apostae aren't of Androffan origin.
It absolutely means exactly that.
Aballonites and Apostate are their own thing.
Can you tell me what are you talking about?
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Can you tell me what are you talking about?Now this means that the aballonites nor Apostae aren't of Androffan origin.
It absolutely means exactly that.
Aballonites and Apostate are their own thing.
It means that Androffa had no hand in the creation of those elements; not everything in Golarion's solar system is a result of Androffa/Divinity tinkering/influence. In fact, pretty much only Numeria is.
Oh my god.
You guys.
WE ARE ON ANDROFFA!
That brings up something that I think has been talked about in Reign of Winter. The Earth that the PCs visit is Pathfinder Earth rather than this Earth. Since if it was this Earth, that would cause a huge storm in regards to religion and other stuff.
I believe Aballonites and Apostate are the creations of the "First Ones" mentioned in Distant Worlds, and they were most definitely more advanced than the Androffans as indicated by their ability to create star gates capable of linking galaxies.
Given that and that elfs exist on Androffa, Castrovel, Golarion and who knows how many other worlds throughout the Pathfinder universe (traveling as it seems through the gate system of the First Ones) is their any connection between them and the First Ones?
It means that Androffa had no hand in the creation of those elements; not everything in Golarion's solar system is a result of Androffa/Divinity tinkering/influence. In fact, pretty much only Numeria is.Can you tell me what are you talking about?Now this means that the aballonites nor Apostae aren't of Androffan origin.
It absolutely means exactly that.
Aballonites and Apostate are their own thing.
I was asking who are those Abollonites and Apostates.
James, now that the final book in the AP is out, would it be possible to share how the humans of Androffa, Golarion, and Earth are related? Did they start on one and somehow get seeded on the others?
I was asking who are those Abollonites and Apostates.It means that Androffa had no hand in the creation of those elements; not everything in Golarion's solar system is a result of Androffa/Divinity tinkering/influence. In fact, pretty much only Numeria is.Can you tell me what are you talking about?Now this means that the aballonites nor Apostae aren't of Androffan origin.
It absolutely means exactly that.
Aballonites and Apostate are their own thing.
The Aballonians are the machine race of Aballon the Horse, the closest planet to the sun (I think). They were created millennia ago by unknown masters and left there to fend for themselves.
Apostae is the farthest planet from the sun and the only one not connected by portals, however it is in fact not a planet and is actually a huge spherical starship of unknown origin with the crew locked inside.
I was asking who are those Abollonites and Apostates.
As for the Abollonites, they are on the verge of creating their own iron god called Epoch.
I was asking who are those Abollonites and Apostates.As for the Abollonites, they are on the verge of creating their own iron god called Epoch.
But Epoch is in no way related to the Iron Gods of Divinity, and has not yet achieved divinity, it is just a massively intelligent oracular machine. Just clearing things up.
Also Epoch is from the mad genius of James L. Sutter, Iron Gods is James Jacobs's thing:-)
still waiting for that Distant Worlds AP...........