I kind of can though. The Fighter has no abilities that do that. The Wizard does. The math works out very easily for me.
I must admit I only skimmed the thread, but I want to say that geas would not work as well as was earlier argued. It has a casting time of 10 minutes. This is why it has no save, it is intended to be cast on helpless, or for some reason willing targets.It would. Because no one is casting Geas. They are casting Limited Wish which duplicates Geas/Quest and has a casting time of 1 standard action.Still never saw that air-tight command.
If you don't want the lawyer-ing skill to decide it, then you somehow have to with the limitations of English, create a binding command with no legal precedents to depend on for meaning. Any gaps at all are filled in by ME the player. If the command turns out to be invalid for the spell, then it just fails and your silly wizard is in close range.
Lawyering (as in giving airtight commands) is a player skill. The character's ranks in whatever are completely irrelevant. I can give an airtight command with 0 ranks.Anzyr, I have to completely disagree with this.
My position is that a higher intelligence character could phrase things in a way such that no loopholes would remain.
I am going to be nice and say that my players and I are all somewhere between a 10-12 Int. I personally think we all hug near the bottom of that.
Now I cannot even conceive of what the thought process of an Int 36 person is like, but I honestly believe that they could make a nigh-unbeatable command.
Basically, I believe that the character not the player is always the lens all actions should be seen and taken through.
Please explain to me how you feel you can phrase a command in the same way a 36 Int wizard can?
My assertions are basically
*Pathfinder is a roleplaying game that allows players to do things they simply cannot do in real life.
*That is a higher intelligence than the smartest person ever to exist.
*An extremely intelligent real person can state and phrase things in ways that a person like myself with an equivalent 10-11 Int cannot think there way around.
*If a player is required to state something at the intelligence level of his/her character, then he/she should also be required demonstrate real sword skill to attack or give a mind warpingly great speech to use diplomacy.
Yeah, in a game setting with a GM, the wizard loses pretty hardcore.
You will find the GMs tend to go out of their way to smash exploits like Limited Wish Geas or Explosive rune book nuke. They have no reason not to, because the wizard can just learn new spells. Their character is never ruined by closing an exploit.
Meanwhile this (and the 2-3 other posted) mythic fighter is very close to God-hood. He has level 17+ casters as minions and flocks of great wyrm dragons to call upon. He fights toe to toe with Cthulhu and is on a first name basis with every important deity. Whenever he makes a move the very heavens stir in anticipation.
Please explain to me how you feel you can phrase a command in the same way a 36 Int wizard can?
My assertions are basically
*Pathfinder is a roleplaying game that allows players to do things they simply cannot do in real life.
*That is a higher intelligence than the smartest person ever to exist.
*An extremely intelligent real person can state and phrase things in ways that a person like myself with an equivalent 10-11 Int cannot think there way around.
*If a player is required to state something at the intelligence level of his/her character, then he/she should also be required demonstrate real sword skill to attack or give a mind warpingly great speech to use diplomacy.
Uh... what? No really... what?
I said I could phrase an airtight command for Geas. I can do that regardless of my character's INT/WIS/CHA/ranks in Diplomacy/Craft (Contract)/Profession (Barrister)/Craft (Disturbing Mental Image). I'm not sure what a 36 INT Wizard has to do with me at all.
Yeah, in a game setting with a GM, the wizard loses pretty hardcore.
You will find the GMs tend to go out of their way to smash exploits like Limited Wish Geas or Explosive rune book nuke. They have no reason not to, because the wizard can just learn new spells. Their character is never ruined by closing an exploit.
Meanwhile this (and the 2-3 other posted) mythic fighter is very close to God-hood. He has level 17+ casters as minions and flocks of great wyrm dragons to call upon. He fights toe to toe with Cthulhu and is on a first name basis with every important deity. Whenever he makes a move the very heavens stir in anticipation.
The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.
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Well, Anzyr. I'll defeat you..
Here is a build for a character that with a single level of Fighter, can defeat any 15th level Wizard!
Multiclass Fighter 1/Wizard 19
Hah! My non-Mythic Fighter beats your 15th level Wizard!
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I said I could phrase an airtight command for Geas.
And yet you have not.
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The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.
No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
Please explain to me how you feel you can phrase a command in the same way a 36 Int wizard can?
My assertions are basically
*Pathfinder is a roleplaying game that allows players to do things they simply cannot do in real life.
*That is a higher intelligence than the smartest person ever to exist.
*An extremely intelligent real person can state and phrase things in ways that a person like myself with an equivalent 10-11 Int cannot think there way around.
*If a player is required to state something at the intelligence level of his/her character, then he/she should also be required demonstrate real sword skill to attack or give a mind warpingly great speech to use diplomacy.
Uh... what? No really... what?
I said I could phrase an airtight command for Geas. I can do that regardless of my character's INT/WIS/CHA/ranks in Diplomacy/Craft (Contract)/Profession (Barrister)/Craft (Disturbing Mental Image). I'm not sure what a 36 INT Wizard has to do with me at all.
My apologies my last post was directed at Marroar Gellantara.
I do disagree that a player should have to make an air-tight command, however I do not disagree that such a command exists.
Basically you should not have to phrase the details of such a command only the broad intentions as long as your character has the means to know those details.
Asking for details of such a command before allowing it to work is in my opinion the same as asking for the exact wording of a speech or the exact mechanics of a sword exchange.
The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
I don't think anything is "too toxic" for any possible narrative. What makes it "toxic" or not depends on what kind of narrative you want.
I've played campaigns where every player (which were only 2, but still...) was a full-caster and allowed (and even encouraged) to exploit loopholes, just to see what the hell we could do.
It was pretty fun, actually.
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The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
Yeah, sometimes you gotta love the Paizo logic. Aroden's Spellbane, Blood Money, and Sacred Geometry are all ok, but the original version of Heirloom Weapon was far FAR too powerful to be allowed to stand un-nerfed.
:P
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Well, so far I've poked holes in the geas, exploding runes and prescience to raise initiative. Which was said to be common wizard tactics and countered by low level mythic abilities. I'm beginning to think a 12th lvl ftr with 3-5 tiers could win this fight.
And also, you've gone from saying a 13th lvl wizard could win to having a wizard with multiple 9th level spells and nearly unlimited wealth. The fighter is gaining ground.
Well, so far I've poked holes in the geas, exploding runes and prescience to raise initiative. Which was said to be common wizard tactics and countered by low level mythic abilities. I'm beginning to think a 12th lvl ftr with 3-5 tiers could win this fight.
And also, you've gone from saying a 13th lvl wizard could win to having a wizard with multiple 9th level spells and nearly unlimited wealth. The fighter is gaining ground.
What holes? When? Because all those of totally work. A 13th level Wizard could win thanks to Simulacrum being a 7th level spell. I also said a 12th level could Win provided they sufficiently abused Planar Binding and Explosive Runes.
Asking for details of such a command before allowing it to work is in my opinion the same as asking for the exact wording of a speech or the exact mechanics of a sword exchange.
If the wizard can hand-wave the command, then my lawyer can hand-wave the loophole for it.
In PF legalese is WIS based. Int does not help you at all.
(No craft skill helps you speak, since it is not making 'something' as assumed to be defined in the rules)
What holes? When? Because all those of totally work. A 13th level Wizard could win thanks to Simulacrum being a 7th level spell. I also said a 12th level could Win provided they sufficiently abused Planar Binding and Explosive Runes.Well, so far I've poked holes in the geas, exploding runes and prescience to raise initiative. Which was said to be common wizard tactics and countered by low level mythic abilities. I'm beginning to think a 12th lvl ftr with 3-5 tiers could win this fight.
And also, you've gone from saying a 13th lvl wizard could win to having a wizard with multiple 9th level spells and nearly unlimited wealth. The fighter is gaining ground.
You still have not given an example of an air-tight command.
Please explain to me how you feel you can phrase a command in the same way a 36 Int wizard can?
My assertions are basically
*Pathfinder is a roleplaying game that allows players to do things they simply cannot do in real life.
*That is a higher intelligence than the smartest person ever to exist.
*An extremely intelligent real person can state and phrase things in ways that a person like myself with an equivalent 10-11 Int cannot think there way around.
*If a player is required to state something at the intelligence level of his/her character, then he/she should also be required demonstrate real sword skill to attack or give a mind warpingly great speech to use diplomacy.
Uh... what? No really... what?
I said I could phrase an airtight command for Geas. I can do that regardless of my character's INT/WIS/CHA/ranks in Diplomacy/Craft (Contract)/Profession (Barrister)/Craft (Disturbing Mental Image). I'm not sure what a 36 INT Wizard has to do with me at all.
My apologies my last post was directed at Marroar Gellantara.
I do disagree that a player should have to make an air-tight command, however I do not disagree that such a command exists.
Basically you should not have to phrase the details of such a command only the broad intentions as long as your character has the means to know those details.
Asking for details of such a command before allowing it to work is in my opinion the same as asking for the exact wording of a speech or the exact mechanics of a sword exchange.
Oh! Ya, I agree with you that it would be fine for a GM to say that a character could come up with something that the player couldn't. I'm not going to argue that of course since it relies on the GM, but I agree nonetheless.
Holes: 3rd tier ability Pure Destiny can defeat geas... so could a deaf fighter btw. Spell immunity can bypass explosive runes. Transfer magic can steal spellbane, allowing AMF to come into play.
I am ignoring similacrum as either side could have it, so 'defeat' is irrelevant. Its like saying at tier 10 you can't die. So I suppose a lvl 1 fighter with 10 tiers could win.
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The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
Presumably they're "toxic" because they're game-breaking auto-win tricks, right? Which is kinda the whole point Anzyr is making: that wizards get cheap, unfair, and horribly unbalanced game-breaking auto-win tricks.
Presumably they're "toxic" because they're game-breaking auto-win tricks, right? Which is kinda the whole point Anzyr is making: that wizards get cheap, unfair, and horribly unbalanced game-breaking auto-win tricks.The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
They are not auto-win if you are just as unfair back.
They are not auto-win if you are just as unfair back.Presumably they're "toxic" because they're game-breaking auto-win tricks, right? Which is kinda the whole point Anzyr is making: that wizards get cheap, unfair, and horribly unbalanced game-breaking auto-win tricks.The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
Sure, what do Fighters get that are that unfair again?
They are not auto-win if you are just as unfair back.Presumably they're "toxic" because they're game-breaking auto-win tricks, right? Which is kinda the whole point Anzyr is making: that wizards get cheap, unfair, and horribly unbalanced game-breaking auto-win tricks.The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
The point being that the game doesn't have specifically prescribed methods of "being mean back." It does specifically spell (tee hee) out how a wizard does those things.
Holes: 3rd tier ability Pure Destiny can defeat geas... so could a deaf fighter btw. Spell immunity can bypass explosive runes. Transfer magic can steal spellbane, allowing AMF to come into play.
I am ignoring similacrum as either side could have it, so 'defeat' is irrelevant. Its like saying at tier 10 you can't die. So I suppose a lvl 1 fighter with 10 tiers could win.
What class ability/magic item are you getting Spell Immunity from? And stealing Spellbane is virtually impossible, because again, successful melee touch attack isn't happening.
Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my crystal ball scroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.
I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
Who cares? Its a 4th level spell with a min duration of 70 min. Since we're going by the books, and without logic, did you know that any 9th level spell only costs 1530 gp?
And you really think that a touch AC is unhittable? Don't you think a wizard can be snuck up on? Or is that included in their divinity?
Sure, what do Fighters get that are that unfair again?They are not auto-win if you are just as unfair back.Presumably they're "toxic" because they're game-breaking auto-win tricks, right? Which is kinda the whole point Anzyr is making: that wizards get cheap, unfair, and horribly unbalanced game-breaking auto-win tricks.The GM changing things against the Wizard is itself proof that the Wizard would win.No. It is only proof that some of the wizards exploits are too toxic for any narrative.
Still waiting for that air-tight command.
Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my
crystal ballscroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
Disjunction. Followed by the plan. Not to mention, this is going to eat your WBL every time while the Wizard expends. Attrition against a Wizard is not a war you will win.
Who cares? Its a 4th level spell with a min duration of 70 min. Since we're going by the books, and without logic, did you know that any 9th level spell only costs 1530 gp?
And you really think that a touch AC is unhittable? Don't you think a wizard can be snuck up on? Or is that included in their divinity?
I think that the Wizard has Emergency Force Sphere if you manage to make it that far into the air without being dispelled and sent crashing to the ground or have some Ex means of Flight (that isn't a mount, since it will die quickly).
Disjunction. Followed by the plan.Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my
crystal ballscroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
How did you know to cast the disjunction? Also, if you cast disjunction it didn't happen through a scry or during a time stop. I have 1100' in my first range increment on my bow. I drop you with arrows.
Disjunction. Followed by the plan. Not to mention, this is going to eat your WBL every time while the Wizard expends. Attrition against a Wizard is not a war you will win.Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my
crystal ballscroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
Naw, I guarentee that wizard has bounties. Every time I squish one I take his gear and collect the bounties.
Question... Could a 20th level Wizard cast Protection From Energy (fire), Plane Shift to the plane of fire, Gate an opponent in and then simply go away and let their target there to die?
Question... Could a 20th level Wizard cast Protection From Energy (fire), Plane Shift to the plane of fire, Gate an opponent in and then simply go away and let their target there to die?
Yea, but so could anyone else with 4 scrolls.
Question... Could a 20th level Wizard cast Protection From Energy (fire), Plane Shift to the plane of fire, Gate an opponent in and then simply go away and let their target there to die?
Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.
Yea, but so could anyone else with 4 scrolls.
Well, yeah... If you have unlimited wealth, you can do mostly anything a Wizard can do... Just not quite as well.
Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.
How would wings help?
Wow, yet another spell that I had to google from an unusual source. 2009, is that for 3.5 or PF rules?
And you can't use immediate actions if you're flat footed. I'm thinking/hoping that a trained wizard killer can sneak up on and beat a wizard's initiative.
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People are fighting super hard for the Fighter to have build dependent features to take on a wizard that can literally change their build by the day, as well as can stockpile resources for days/weeks/years.
There's nothing inherent to the Fighter class that beats anything inherent to the wizard class, which Anzyr has shown again and again.
The fact that you can list over 100 wizard tricks that each require in most cases a build specific way to get around them should show the stupid power of magic (especially from the wizard's spell list). It's not hard to get new tricks either, as well as divinations being able to scout far in advance, and contingency spells set up to activate as soon as the future is known to them.
Most of these arguments are "If the wizard does plan #234, the Fighter can take this specific ability to stop it", which forces the wizard to move onto plan #235 which requires another build or gear dependent option (and yeah, gear isn't inherent to the fighter class either, so that's a wash).
Sure, I'd love to see a fully statted wizard for this since only about 8 spells has been mentioned (this is not a hard number to meet), so all these "They have every known spell arguments" are just silly when a lot of these spells aren't even WTF options, they're pretty standard fare (Limited Wish, Contingency, Teleport, Contact Other Planes, Explosive Ruins, Greater Dispel Magic, Planar Binding).
The wizard here wins if they have ANY time to set up, because unlike the fighter, their resources can stretch, where the fighter's can't. So if you're going to argue this, it has to have a set standard for if this is done in advance (wizard wins), or if it's completely random, and if the wizard has up their normal prep spells (stuff that again is done days in advance), since a lot of them involve getting out of melee range and ending anything that questions them.
Personally, wizard wins here because while you can come up with maybe 50 different fighter builds to come into this, you can come up with 1,000 wizard builds, and on versatility alone, the Wizard takes it.
Naw, I guarentee that wizard has bounties. Every time I squish one I take his gear and collect the bounties.Disjunction. Followed by the plan. Not to mention, this is going to eat your WBL every time while the Wizard expends. Attrition against a Wizard is not a war you will win.Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my
crystal ballscroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
Uh? Sure if you can manage to 1. Win initiate. and 2. Kill them. Both of those are pretty unlikely. And the Wizard would know to cast Disjunction thanks to Permanent Arcane Sight - if you have magical effects it only costs a swift action to make you not have them.
Which player bribed the GM the most?
Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.How would wings help?
Because of how gate works.
You can't call the fighter. Planar travel is not forced. You could place the gate under the fighter, but one with wings does not have to fall in.
Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.How would wings help?Because of how gate works.
You can't call the fighter. Planar travel is not forced. You could place the gate under the fighter, but one with wings does not have to fall in.
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.
Man, this spell is broken...
Still waiting for that Air-tight qeas command.
Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.How would wings help?Because of how gate works.
You can't call the fighter. Planar travel is not forced. You could place the gate under the fighter, but one with wings does not have to fall in.
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.
Man, this spell is broken...
The fighter is not an outsider.
Uh? Sure if you can manage to 1. Win initiate. and 2. Kill them. Both of those are pretty unlikely. And the Wizard would know to cast Disjunction thanks to Permanent Arcane Sight - if you have magical effects it only costs a swift action to make you not have them.Naw, I guarentee that wizard has bounties. Every time I squish one I take his gear and collect the bounties.Disjunction. Followed by the plan. Not to mention, this is going to eat your WBL every time while the Wizard expends. Attrition against a Wizard is not a war you will win.Ok Anzyr,
I'm a crafty fighter who's made it to 20th level. I have UMD, and I have scrolls. I know about your cute little exploding runes trick, so I always have a contingency up to cast a lesser globe of invulnerability when an explosive runes spell goes off near enough to affect me. I also have that fighter archetype capstone that makes me immune to mind affecting.
You drop in on me and play your cute little boom scrolls trick. I immediately pull my
crystal ballscroll of greater scry out and scry you. If you are on plane with me I will greater teleport to your location and wail your ass. If you are not on plane then I will whip out my scroll of gate and call your ass (no save) next to me and wail on you.I have 100,000 or so GP of wealth set aside just for protecting against crazy wizard antics.
What's your plan?
Given your stated +43 to initiative I have about a 40% chance to win. But assuming I lost, you are going to auto drop the disjunction 100% of the time you see auras? So you are going to be just 75 ft away from me?
So I lose initiative and you quicken a disjunction (that was A BUNCH of your wealth on that rod) how are you spending you move and standard actions? If the answer is cast some other spell it had better be your stated limited wish/geas trick or else you are cheating by having access to my stat block. If it is run away and hide then see above about scry/teleport/gate wail your ass with my bow.
Well... It doesn't say outsider, just "extraplanar". i.e.: a creature from a different plane (in this case, not the Plane of Fire).
The fighter is not an outsider.Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.How would wings help?Because of how gate works.
You can't call the fighter. Planar travel is not forced. You could place the gate under the fighter, but one with wings does not have to fall in.
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.
Man, this spell is broken...
If you are on the plane of fire when you cast it he is.
Well... It doesn't say outsider, just "extraplanar". i.e.: a creature from a different plane (in this case, not the Plane of Fire).
"Extraplanar Subtype
This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow."
Until the fighter leaves the plane, he is not extraplanar, thus gate does not work.
If you are on the plane of fire when you cast it he is.The fighter is not an outsider.Well the fighter I listed can fly with his wings (he got via class feature), so no.How would wings help?Because of how gate works.
You can't call the fighter. Planar travel is not forced. You could place the gate under the fighter, but one with wings does not have to fall in.
Calling Creatures: The second effect of the gate spell is to call an extraplanar creature to your aid (a calling effect). By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling.
Man, this spell is broken...
Actually no. Your type only changes if you change planes; like a normal Joe being on Earth is still not an outsider no matter where you try to call him from. He would gain outsider if he travels abroad. Its why demons don't summon all of us from the Abyss.
If you are on the plane of fire when you cast it he is.
Nope. That is not the listed rules for extraplanar.