Bypassing Evasion


Advice


Is there a way to negate an enemies evasion?


You can use splash spell that are not countered by a reflex save (like unholy blight) or try to paralyses/slumber the opponent (Evasion is negated if the opponent is helpless).

Lantern Lodge

You can use Sleep to make them helpless, then Fireball them.


if there is no place to evase TO then evesion doens't work.
try using sold fig or better acid fog in the entire area aroundthem.
you can also try and get them into medium or heavier armor by casting spells that ether imidiatly make them dressed wit hsaid armor or force them to(sujestion and such).

after batteling a horde of monks i might also add that since they not only have a redicilus high saves and special abilities and imunities(not to mantion at higher level sepll resistance) i find that the BEST way to del with them is to ge tsome1 really tough(summon?) and attack them. most monk's are easier to hit then to cast spells on.


I dunno...being in the center of a 40' wide blast in an open field seems to already constitute "nowhere to run." Let's not try to pretend that evasion is logical. That having been said, a magical attempt to encumbered the opponent *just* might work. But given prior lights from the OP...maybe not.

Grand Lodge

I have found that dead PCs seems to lose their evasion.

On a more serious note, when faced with evasion I usually use enemies which have effective ways of de-buffing saves. Witches, Things that cast enervation, Vorpal Weapons, etc.

Kelazan's suggestion of spells which don't use reflex is also a solid suggestion (Horrid Wilting, Boneshatter, unholy blight, chaos hammer, etc)


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zza ni wrote:

if there is no place to evase TO then evesion doens't work.

What do you mean? Evasion works as long as the character is not helpless.


Strength drain if large enough can push an Evasion character into a high enough encumbrance that he can't use it.

Debuffs can penalize the save so that they fail more often. (enervation. waves of exhaustion, evil eye hex, bestow curse for a few examples)

Shadow Lodge

I think he's looking more for a metamagic addition to the spell that says "Evasion does not work on this spell".


If it is the super dragon from the other threads. I suggest you use bluffs on your friends. If your friends are already boosted the spells that debuff with no save like frigid touch is good just get reach meta and use quickend true strike just before. Also things like waves of Exhaustion is good. If it is because you have throwing all your eggs in the fireball basket? Then remember that you can memorise other spells as well.


I did not even notice it was Chess Pwn. Even if there was a way, which there isn't, he would negate that too. You can not win an arms race with the GM.

Scarab Sages

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The best way to bypass evasion is to use a spell that targets will or fortitude, or better yet, doesn't allow a save at all.


What if a character is prone on the ground, either by choice or not, and is not grappled or pinned? Do they still get evasion? Had a bad GM who said you lose evasion in this situation even though in RAW it does not specify this anywhere I found


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think a designer has said that you get a reflex save vs anything and everything that allows one. Even if unconscious or bound. Or that could have been his opinion.

EDIT: and a quick PRD search states that monk and rogue need to be in light or no armor and not helpless. Ring of evasion does not have those limitations.


Click this link

If it says anything other than "Saving throw - No" move on. You're looking for rays, stuff that requires a touch attack, stuff that is conjuration.

How do you take down a Paladin? Make sure he never gets to roll a d20.


raw you lose evasion if helpless.

prone, or grappled isn't helpless


Horrid Wilting is the fireball that doesn't allow evasion or resist energy.

Scarab Sages

voideternal wrote:

Horrid Wilting is the fireball that doesn't allow evasion or resist energy.

Blessed Fortitude works though


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It's as Wraithstrike said: You can evade so long as you're not helpless.

Even a tanglefoot bag and quicksand do not render a character helpless, so this is one of those things where the rules abut common sense. I've learned to simply nod and move on with the game.


Generally you can evade only if you are not helpless, or not in medium or heavier armor. It must also be an attack which allows a Reflex save for half damage.

CRB Glossary wrote:
A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy.

Note that one is 'helpless' if unconscious or bound and therefore it is not relevant whether you actually get a Reflex save for the purpose of Evasion.

Sufficient ability damage or drain can render a target helpless.

I believe Pinned also renders you unable to use Evasion as one may only take verbal or mental actions as well as being described as tightly bound.

Note that if this is a Dragon it is normally immune to both magical sleep and paralysis effects.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Is there a way to negate an enemies evasion?

Attack Fort, Will, or AC


If you're trying to take someone/something down it's always better to target their weaknesses rather than their strengths. Going for rogue types with dex saves is just plain wasteful.

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